Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 21.62–67 – January 6, 1967, New York

Which Brahma has come?

Prabhupada:

So we have been discussing, yesterday, Brahma visiting Krsna as four-headed Brahma. He was little proud that "I am the original, first creature of this universe. I have got four heads, four hands." The material nature, the influence of material nature, is like that. Even Brahma, who is supposed to be in full knowledge of Vedic literature...

He is the father of Vedic literature. He handed over the Vedas to Narada. Still, that ahahkara, "I am something," is there even in Brahma, and what to speak of ordinary living entities like us. This material conception of life is like that: "I am" and "mine." Aham..., aham mameti [SB 5.5.8].

Aham mameti: "I am something, supreme," and "It is mine." This is the material disease. So these things are sometimes exhibited by great isvaras, controller, like Brahma, like Siva. They sometimes exhibit material frailties. They are not fallible in that way, but they teach us by their behavior that even personalities of the most exalted position, they are also sometimes subjected to the spell of illusory energy. The idea is that we should be very careful. Nobody should think that he is beyond the range of material energy. At any time we can fall down.

But if we stick to the Krsna consciousness, always thinking of Krsna as our protector, and take shelter unto His lotus feet sincerely, then even if we fall down sometimes, not intentionally, but accidentally-because we are practiced to so many bad things, so it may be possible that even I take full care, still, the influence is so strong, I may fall down-Krsna excuses such kind of falldown. Excuses. But if we intentionally think, "Oh, because I am in Krsna consciousness, because I am engaged in devotional service, oh, I can do any nonsense and Krsna will excuse me," no. Not like that. Krsna will excuse you, provided you do not do anything intentionally wrong.

We should be... Generally, those who are in Krsna consciousness fully, they have-I have already explained to you-they have got all these twenty-six qualification. That is the perfection of Krsna consciousness. When we see the twenty-six qualification in full present, that means he is perfect in Krsna consciousness. If those qualities are not present, that means there is still, I mean to say, that touch of contamination of material nature. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12].

So far those who are not in Krsna consciousness, their material academic qualification has no value, no value, however M.A., Ph.D. he may be. Why? Mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ. Because the materialist without Krsna consciousness... That is a materialist. One who has no conception of God, or Krsna, and his proper relationship with Him, one who does not know the science of God, he is called materialist.

Materialist does not mean something extraordinary personality. One who does not know about Krsna, he is materialist. And one who makes progress in the science of Krsna under regulation and under principles, they are called spiritualist. So materialist, the disease is that harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano-rathena asati dhavato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12].

Unless we take to Krsna consciousness fully, we shall hover over the mental plane. You will find so many philosophers, doctors of philosophy, they can go on speculating, mental plane, manaḥ, but actually they are asat. Their activities will be seen in materialistic. There is no spiritualistic realization. So more or less degree, this material conception is everywhere. A-brahma-bhuvanal lokan. Krsna says, a-brahma-bhuvanal lokan [Bg 8.16].

Beginning from the lowest planet up to the Brahmaloka, they are all affected. So similarly Brahma, he thought himself, "Oh, how great I am that in my jurisdiction Krsna, my Lord, has come, and He is playing like a boy, cowherd boy. How much great I am. Krsna has come just like cowherd boy." You see? Therefore he... Krsne janana dvari brahmare lana gela. Krsna inquired, "Which Brahma has come?"

Now the doorman takes him inside, and he enters Krsna's room, offers his respect. Krsnera carane brahma danḍavat kaila. Now, if Krsna is ordinary person, as the foolish rascals think, that avajananti mam mūḍha [Bg 9.11], "The foolish rascals deride at Me as ordinary man," how it is possible that Brahma is offering his respect to Krsna? If you think that "These are all stories..." Not stories. Do you think Caitanya Mahaprabhu is speaking some stories, some fabricated stories, to get His followers? Do you think like that? No.

Lord Caitanya, such a great devotee... Apart from His feature of incarnation, take Him as a great devotee, learned. He was vastly learned, and nobody could surpass Him in His learning in those days. He defeated... When He was a sixteen-years-old boy, He defeated the greatest scholar, Kesava Kasmiri. His name was Kesava. He came to Navadvipa from Kashmir to talk with scholars. Formerly, as nowadays you have got-what is called?-champion, champion. What is the meaning of champion?

Devotee: Best.

Prabhupada: Best. Just like in sporting, there are champions in..., chessboard playing champion or so many departmental champion. This is coming from time long, long ago. Similarly, there were champions of scholars. Just like in modern days a sportsman will challenge, and if he is victorious all over the world... Similarly, in those days there were competition of the great learned scholars, championship. So this Kesava Kasmiri... At least India, that was the system even five hundred years before. So Kesava Kasmiri, he was a panḍita.

Now, India was united on the strength of religious culture and Sanskrit language. All over India the lingua franca, the language, common language, at least for the scholars, not for the common man... The common man could speak any language-Hindi, Parsi or Bengali, Oriya, Telugu, so many. There are so many languages. In every district you will find some language. But that was not taken into consideration.

When education is concerned, every student all over India, they would take education in Sanskrit. Sanskrit language was the... So our present government, they have introduced a state language as Hindi. There are so many protests and so many quarrels. They would have done better if they would have introduced Sanskrit language, as it was previously.

So this Sanskrit scholar, Kesava Kasmiri, he came from Kashmir to challenge the learned scholars in other parts of the country.

[break] Four celebrated places where highly, I mean to..., educated scholars were there. One was at Benares. Benares still, it is considered to be the center of Sanskrit scholars' place.

Another unity was that sacred places were distributed all over India. Just like Gaya, a sacred place, it is situated in Bihar. And sacred place, Benares, it is situated in Uttar Pradesh. Vrndavana is situated on the border of Uttar Pradesh and Punjab. Similarly, Kashmir, and Punjab also; in South India, Ramesvaram; in Himalayan province, Haridwar.

In this way all these provinces were distributed, and still it is going on. The provincialism is amongst the educated circle. So far the mass of people are concerned, they don't know what is province. They travel from one province to another. They don't require any visa. They don't require any passport. So that was very nice.

So this Sanskrit scholar, Kesava Kasmiri, he came from Kashmir to challenge the learned scholars in other parts of the country. There were four celebrated places where highly, I mean to..., educated scholars were there. One was at Benares. Benares still, it is considered to be the center of Sanskrit scholars' place.

Similarly Navadvipa, where Caitanya Mahaprabhu was born. And in Bihar there was a place, Darbhanga. That is also a scholarly. So Benares, and Berhampur, Berhampur in East Bengal near Dacca. So some of the places in India, they are very famous for learned scholars. Still they are continuing.

So Sanskrit scholars would come in such celebrated places, and they would challenge for arguing on the sastras. So the rule was that two party will argue, and the defeated party will become the disciple of the victorious party. That was the system. So Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when He was sixteen years old, this Kesava Kasmiri came to Navadvipa to challenge. In other places he was victorious; he became champion. And then, at last, he came to Bengal, Navadvipa. So that scholarly discussion will take place.

Now notice is already given that "Kesava Kasmiri has come here," and he had an umbrella, and the four sides was covered with gold, and the one side is remaining. As soon as he becomes victorious in Navadvipa, that side also will be covered with gold. So the people of Navadvipa, learned scholars, they first of all thought that Nimai Panḍita...

Caitanya Mahaprabhu was known as Nimai Panḍita, because He was boy, sixteen-years-old boy, very learned scholar, especially in logic He was very learned scholar, logician. He was so... Even in His sixth year, with His class friends He will establish one theory; again He will cut it; again He will establish; again He will cut it; again the same, in His own way. He was so learned scholar, logician.

So the elderly scholars of Navadvipa, they designed that "This Nimai Panḍita should be forwarded first to talk with Kesava Kasmiri, because He is a boy. But He is a very nice boy. He is very learned boy. If He becomes victorious, then our Navadvipa will be glorified, that 'Kesava Kasmiri was defeated by a sixteen-years-old boy in Navadvipa.' And if He..., if Nimai Panḍita is defeated, then we shall go forward.

Then we shall say, 'Oh, you have defeated a boy. Let us..., come to us.' So we get second chance." So that was the plan, Bengali plan, [chuckles] second chance. First chance, second chance. So it was arranged like that, that Lord Caitanya, Nimai Panḍita, would talk, would discuss with Kesava Kasmiri.

So one evening... Still, during summer season on the Ganges side in the evening there are so many ladies and gentlemen, especially gentlemen; ladies do not come. Nowadays come. Formerly they did not come out. So they came for strolling. And Nimai Panḍita, although He was sixteen years old, He had many students. Formerly the system was that as soon as a boy becomes little grown up and learned, he will also teach some students.

Catuspathi. So although all the students were of the same age, but still, Nimai Panḍita was chief of them. So He was discussing with His own students on the bank of the Ganges. So Kesava Kasmiri came there for strolling, and he understood that "Oh, here is a boy, Nimai Panḍita. He is to talk with me. So what this boy will talk with me?" He thought like that.

So when he came before the assembly of the students, he talked with Nimai that "Are You Nimai Panḍita?" "Yes, sir. Who are you?" "I am Kesava Kasmiri." "Oh. Come on, come on. Sit down." The introduction was there. They sat down. And then Nimai Panḍita requested, "So, I have heard that you are a very vastly learned scholar, and from your feature also I can understand, so best thing will be that you compose some poetry in praising Ganges."

Because they were on the bank of the Ganges, and it is a Hindu system... Ganges water is considered very sacred, and there are many prayers of Ganges. Patita-dharani gahge. Patita-dharani gahge: Ganges is the shelter for all the fallen souls. She can deliver. Sahkaracarya had composed many poems on the Ganges. There are many poetry on the Ganges. So Kesava Kasmiri was very learned scholar. He, without any hesitation, he began to compose Sanskrit verses in praising Ganges. So he composed about one hundred verses immediately while talking.

So out of the one hundred verses, on the sixty-fourth verse Lord Caitanya pointed out, "Will you kindly explain this line? I am little in difficulty to understand." "What is that?" There was a word, bhavani-bharta. Bhavani-bharta. Bhavani... Means "husband of Bhavani." So Caitanya Mahaprabhu pointed out that Bhavani... "Bhava means Lord Siva, and bhavani means Lord Siva's wife, and bharta means husband. So this bhavani word itself indicates that she is the wife of Lord Siva, and why you have stated again bharta, again 'husband'?" This is called dvirukti-dosa[?].

Sanskrit language is very scholarly language, reformed. You cannot deviate even a line, even a letter in the sense, in the poetry, in the writing. There are all regulation, strict regulation, grammatical and metric and so many things. So nobody can surpass it, not that... Just like nowadays we write poetry-one line is three hundred miles, one hundred, [chuckles] and only one mile. That sort of poetry will not be allowed in Sanskrit. [chuckles] You cannot adjust three hundred miles and one mile. No. It must be very symmetrical. That is Sanskrit language.

So the Panḍita, Kasmiri Panḍita, became surprised. The Kasmiri Panḍita became surprised: "How is that? This boy understood? He was a student of grammar, and He is pointing out literary defects?" Oh, he became very much..., much surprised. Then he admitted. He was learned scholar. He admitted his fault, and he said, "How is that? I have heard that You are a student of grammar, and You are pointing out defects in literary construction?" "No. Yes. Yes, sir. I am a student of grammar. But I have heard it from great scholars like you. Of course, I do not know, but I have heard it." He very submissively replied that "I am not scholar, but I have heard it from scholars that this is the technique." He could understand that "He is a very clever student."

And there were many others, He pointed out defects. He thought in the beginning, "Oh, He is asking to compose some poetries. I shall show Him how can I compose poetry, hundreds." He did not care so much that "He will point out so many defects in them." But when he saw it, he became sorry. And then the students, Lord Caitanya's students, as it is usual, they began to laugh. Oh, Caitanya Mahaprabhu at once told them, "Don't laugh in that way."

So this Kesava Kasmiri went to his, I mean, his home, and he was a devotee of Goddess Sarasvati. He prayed that "Mother, I was never defeated in such a way. What offense I have made unto your lotus feet that I am defeated before a boy?" So then Goddess Sarasvati presented herself in dream and informed that,

"This boy is not ordinary boy. You are fortunate that you are defeated before Him. Best thing will be that you go and surrender unto Him, and you'll be profited." So this Kesava Kasmiri became a student of Lord Caitanya, and this is the... So these puffed-up things are going on in every field of activities. But Lord Krsna is always greater than everyone. So here Brahma is asking,

As he offered his respect to Krsna, Krsna received him, "Oh, welcome, Brahma. I am very glad to see you. What is the special message that you have all of a sudden you come here?" So,

"Yes, Sir, I shall speak for what for I have come here. But I have got some doubts. First of all, You kindly clear these doubts." Then "What is that doubt?" Eka samsaya mane haya, karaha chedana.

"So You have asked, 'Which Brahma?' Sir, I am surprised. Is there any other Brahma than myself in this world?"

"Krsna smiled. 'Oh, yes, there are so many Brahmas. I am calling them.' " So innumerable Brahmas appeared before Krsna.

So unlimited. He had four faces, four heads, and then many Brahmas came with hundred thousands of faces. That was exhibited by Krsna.

So this instruction is that we speak of God as unlimited, but when He makes some manifestation of unlimitedness, we take it in a different way. But actually that is not the fact. If God has unlimited potency, He can do anything and everything. That is unlimitedness. We should not restrict God with our speculative mind, that "How is that? Oh, four-headed Brahma, then thousand-headed Brahma? How it is possible?" Yes.

If Krsna likes, if God likes, He can make millions-of-headed Brahma. Otherwise there is no meaning of unlimited. He can show anything and everything. We should accept it. So these things are going on. We shall discuss later on, tomorrow. Hare Krsna.

Any question? [end]