751219MW.BOM

Prabhupada: What is platform?

Saurabha: Casting of slabs and footings. [break] ...from the back side; you cannot see.

Prabhupada: [aside:] Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. [break] ...every day I don't think.

Dr. Patel: They eat anything but, sir.

Prabhupada: That is another thing.

Dr. Patel: So they get their food all right. They may not get our food every day, but their food they get.

Prabhupada: No... They eat meat; they don't get...

Dr. Patel: They eat even stool, just like hogs.

Prabhupada: That also a human being does. You know in the concentrated camp in during war they had to eat their stool.

Dr. Patel: But the British army had a regulation that they can drink urine but not stool. They cannot eat.

Prabhupada: You may make regulation, but necessity has no regulation.

Dr. Patel: I... Because I happen to be... I, I was holding the honorary position of a colonel in the army.

Prabhupada: Just see, "I am making law: you can drink urine." Just see what is the position. [laughter]

Dr. Patel: In difficulty if there is no water, you can drink your own urine, but you cannot eat your stool. It is very difficult.

Prabhupada: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished, by the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.

Dr. Patel: There is, sir, one method in Ayurvedas, svayambu cikitsa, wherein people are drinking their own urine, because urine is not only water and waste products, but there are certain broken, I mean, what you call important articles of body maintenance, those hormones and...

Prabhupada: So those... You are advising your patients to go and drink...?

Dr. Patel: No, I don't say. But that is not so bad, because it contains those hormones. [Prabhupada laughs] It does contain the hormones. I mean it has been analyzed like that, scientifically. It is not to be joked about.

Prabhupada: No. It is analyzed. And stool is full of hydrophosphites. Yes, that is another... Stool is full of hydrophosphites.

Indian man: [Transl. Doctorsahib, here also the local people are using. It is useful.]

Dr. Patel: They are bringing... There is a method in cikitsa: treatment in Ayurveda. Svayambu. What is that called? So, Mr...., our, er, Mr. Desai. Morarji...

Prabhupada: He is drinking?

Dr. Patel: ...who lost his premiership of India, he is drinking his own urine.

Indian man: I heard also.

Dr. Patel: Yes. He is drinking.

Prabhupada: Accha. Why?

Dr. Patel: And look at him. He's so, I mean, so absolutely healthy. I mean it is, we should not laugh about it, but there is something right in it.

Prabhupada: No, no. I don't laugh; I am surprised. [devotees laugh]

Dr. Patel: No, we are surprised. I also, I also got surprised first, but then it is not so.

Indian man: [Transl. I also laughed.]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. No, it is right.]

Prabhupada: No, no... [aside:] Hare Krsna. Hare Krsna. Thank you very much. Who is your devotee daughter?

Dr. Patel: Janet. Jani! [calling to passing man] His mother was so much great devotee, she died only at the age of ninety-eight years. When she was...

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Dr. Patel: His mother. She was dying, and she said, "I don't want to see anybody; bring only Krsna's photo before me."

Indian man: [Transl. The mother of these children?]

Dr. Patel: No, no. His mother-Mr. Jani's. And then looking at the photograph of Krsna, she breathed her last. Very great devotee she was.

Prabhupada: I saw in Delhi one old man, just a few minutes before his death he asked his son to bring Radha-Krsna picture, and it was put before him and he died.

Dr. Patel: And my father died saying om tat sat. [Bg 17.23] sri-krsnaya namaḥ, and then he stopped it, breathing, in the morning at six o'clock.

Indian man: Ahhhh. Fine. Morning, that is very good.

Dr. Patel: Yes, six o'clock. And my wife was daily saying bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam before she died.

Prabhupada: Hmm. [to devotees] Just see: Govindam.

Dr. Patel: Hmm. That bhaja govindam she was very fond of. Sahkaracarya's bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam mūḍha-mate. [O foolish people, just worship Govinda, worship Govinda, worship Govinda] When I used to talk about the Sanskrit literature, she said, "Why do I want to know grammar? Bhaja govindam is all right for me," she said. Hmm? [pause] My mother used to say get om namo bhagavate vasudevaya I don't know how many thousands of times, for the whole day.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ .

Indian man: [Transl. Devotional service is also attained by good fortune only. Not everyone can get it.]

Dr. Patel: My father never did any work in all his life. Never. He had some estate, and then he lost it also. We are big zamindars, and he lost all the land and property in various forms of business. And after that he only was sitting in the temple all the day and saying hari-nama. All his life, from the age of forty years till he died at the age of eighty, he did that. My mother died when he was thirty-two years.

Prabhupada: Oh?

Dr. Patel: Very early. And he never married again, and I was the only son, and no other daughter or son. Many people requested him to marry, but he said no, he would not marry, because one son is sufficient.

Prabhupada: Yes. Putrarthe kriyate bharya. Putra, when there is putra, what is the use of marrying again?

Dr. Patel: I was five years old when my mother died. In that big pandemic of influenza in 1918, that..., that...

Prabhupada: Yes, war influenza. After war.

Dr. Patel: After war. The whole world was affected. [break] What you do for the...

Prabhupada: He did not remember God; he remembered his son. But God is so kind, because he uttered God's name, He took it seriously.

Dr. Patel: That Mr. Shah had gone to the States, that Mr. Shah and Linea and came back from there, some three months back, and he praised the Americans, that no man on Sunday is in the street. All of them are in the churches, and you hear on the radio only those hymns. Is it a fact?

Prabhupada: He is American. [indicates Harikesa]

Harikesa: Yes, but nobody listens to the radio.

Dr. Patel: He says that at least government does it. Here government is giving all the cinema songs. And there the churches are overflowing.

Prabhupada: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.

Dr. Patel: On Sundays? I don't know now. When I was a student I used to see them full, overflowing practically. Because they were beaten down by war very recently, they did not forget God then, perhaps.

Harikesa: On Sundays they're pretty full in America.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Harikesa: On Sundays, for a couple of hours they're pretty full.

Dr. Patel: In the morning.

Harikesa: Then in the afternoon they're vacant. That's when they get their big collection.

Dr. Patel: They stop it. Oh...

Harikesa: Big collection, on Sunday.

Dr. Patel: Sir, everywhere it is the Church which has actually distorted the message.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Dr. Patel: It is the Church which has distorted the message. You see the Christ's message is distorted by the Church; our Krsna's message is distorted by our temples, sort of a thing.

Prabhupada: Why temples? Even your big, big political leaders, they distort. Why do you blame the temples?

Dr. Patel: But the Christianity is distorted by the...

Prabhupada: Everyone. That is going on.

Dr. Patel: ...those popes. However, Christ taught bhagavata-dharma, absolute bhagavata-dharma. It is this creation of the Church, really, to my mind, that the Christ is forgotten by the Western countries.

Prabhupada: And who is remembering your Krsna in this country?

Dr. Patel: There are a few people. I... We are not that...

Prabhupada: In Bombay there are so many roads, "Vivekananda Road." But there is no Krsna Road. Huh? Who is remembering Krsna?

Dr. Patel: There is Krishnaraj Galli: lane, in market. Krishnaraj Galli. [laughing] [Transl. In Mullijeta market.]

Indian man: [Transl. That was kept after someone's name and not after Lord Krsna's name!]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. Some people do name a road after God's name. Krsna gali is God's name.]

Indian man: [Transl. My father has named me after Krsna's name that's why I have Krsna's name.]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. So when you say your name given by your father you too chant Krsna's name, no?] Ajamila spoke "Narayana." You may speak in the name of your father, at least God's name. Heh?

Prabhupada: That is a chance; that is not...

Indian man: Now the Air India's plane, they have Krsna's lila pictures.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man: In Air India plane.

Prabhupada: That is sensual. Only Radharani and Krsna. And when Krsna is killing Kamsa, that picture is...

Indian man: Killing...?

Prabhupada: Killing Kamsa, that picture you won't find. Krsna is embracing gopis, "Ah, that is very nice." [laughter] Because "We are doing the same thing; we are following Krsna." That is their purpose. They are very much fond of Krsna's mixing with the gopis because they get a support, that "What we are doing..."

Dr. Patel: "We are following Krsna."

Prabhupada: Yes. These rascals, they have taken...

Indian man: But this, sir...

Prabhupada: They will never paint any picture that Krsna is killing Pūtana, Aghasura, Bakasura, Kamsa-so many killing process from the very childhood. That picture you won't find. Because he knows he is Aghasura. He'll be killed. [laughing]

Dr. Patel: We see pictures of Giridhara, like that. Now we see even Giridhara picture. Sir, it is the education. They distorted the education of this country after Nechole. That is the cause of it.

Prabhupada: Nei, Nechole has gone long, long ago. What you are doing now?

Dr. Patel: Nechole made it, sir.

Prabhupada: You can change it. That Nechole has conquered you.

Dr. Patel: That's right. They did conquer us. These priests are not changing it even the system of education.

Sravanananda: At the Ramakrishna Mission school in Madras near a football field, there is one slogan on the arch that says, "The playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gita."

Prabhupada: Just see. Has Nechole carved this?

Sravanananda: He said, "Tear up all the big tulasis..."

Dr. Patel: Is it a fact? We don't know.

Prabhupada: It is a fact if he says.

Sravanananda: Yes. It is written right there, it's written right there. They say the playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gita.

Prabhupada: Yes, Vivekananda taught this.

Sravanananda: He said "Pull out the tulasi and plant brinjal."

Prabhupada: Yes, he advised, "Better water...," what is called, "eggplant tree than tulasi tree. It will bring some fruit. What is the use of watering tulasi tree?"

Dr. Patel: Tulasi has got great medicinal properties.

Prabhupada: That he is not even prepared to...

Dr. Patel: He must not be knowing, those rascals.

Prabhupada: And "Why you are searching out God here and there? There are so many Gods loitering in the street." This is the Vivekananda's statement. And therefore everyone is God. Everyone is thinking, "I am God." This is going on.

Sravanananda: When we went to try to arrange a lecture at their football field for a panḍal program, they said all the people coming would ruin the turf for cricket season. So they didn't have time for spiritual training, they said, only for the physical training. It caused too much damage on the field.

Dr. Patel: In my school, sir, where I was educated, in the entrance there is a statue of Sarasvati, and above it there is a photograph of Krsna. I don't know how it came there then.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Dr. Patel: All are not like that. In my school where I was educated, secondary school, in the entrance there was a statue of Sarasvati, and above that there was Krsna's photo. [break] [someone shouts "Hare Krsna"]

Prabhupada: In good health.

Dr. Patel: He always runs like this. All the time. He is so much frightened of his wife in the house that he cannot speak a word. Still he is in the house. That is why he makes good of all things when he comes out. [laughs] He behaves so naughtily like that.

Indian man: [Transl. Fowl smell is coming.]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. Just now it started. Yes, rotten smell.] Sir, we go this way, if you don't mind? The best way.

Prabhupada: That Mr. Punja is staying? From Fiji? He has not come?

Devotee: Oh, no, he hasn't come back yet. He had two days' business, he said. He said he would come after that. [break]

Prabhupada: ...doing there, these slums?

Dr. Patel: This was..., they wanted to, er, have a officer here of customs. The public, I mean, objected to it, because they are imposing upon them, the way of the public walking. So they stopped it, but they are not taking away all these walls. Otherwise where the poor fellows will make the hutments? That is what they are doing.

Indian man: [Transl. Turn into slums]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. Soon it will be filled with slums. Whatever the slum dwellers do] the Municipality has no objection. [Transl. If we do something in our own house the Municipality will demolish it.] When you say that he does not want to give away these poor people in the hands of the ...

Prabhupada: Then why they are in the hands of the empire lost? Why they lost their empire?

Dr. Patel: Because they were short-sighted.

Prabhupada: But how they knew?

Dr. Patel: But they knew how to govern.

Prabhupada: No, this is not government, if you lose after all. What is this government? You must govern in such a way that you will never lose it.

Dr. Patel: Well, sir, we also had an empire, India, and we have lost it, haven't we? And we, all the eastern country, Malaya, Java, Sumatra, and all those things. Why we lost it? Kalena.

Prabhupada: Kalena it is, of course. So when you lose your culture, then you lose everything.

Dr. Patel: That's right. Because they did not see with the same eye all people. They were the rascals. Otherwise they used to have a very good race. After all, they are Aryans.

Prabhupada: Aryans means who follow Vedic instruction.

Dr. Patel: They have forgotten.

Prabhupada: That is Aryans.

Dr. Patel: So they lost it.

Prabhupada: So they are now the same thing. A person born in a brahmana family, he is claiming "I am brahmana." Similarly, even though born in Aryan family, without any culture they are claiming "I am Aryan." Krsna observed it in Arjuna, and therefore He chastised him, "This kind of proposal is anarya-justam. [Bg 2.2] Under the non-Aryans, you're forgetting your duty." That is the beginning of loss of culture. A small beginning, it creates havoc. Krsna warned this, anarya-justam. Ksatriya's description is given in the Bhagavata: yuddhe capy apalayanam [Bg 18.43], not to go behind. They must fight. That is Aryan culture.

Dr. Patel: They are doing strategical fight. Strategically fight. They should not repeat, but our army is doing strategical fight.

Prabhupada: There is a Bengali saying, palabana ta bhaya naki: "Am I afraid of you, that I shall not go away?"

Dr. Patel: [laughing] I understand.

Prabhupada: "I must go away. That is my independence."

Dr. Patel: [Transl. They also say, run in retreat from a distance.]

Prabhupada: And Krsna says specifically, ksatriya, yuddhe capy apalayanam: "You must fight, face."

Dr. Patel: That yuddha must be also religious. Not...

Prabhupada: Yuddha... Everything must be religious. Why yuddha? Your ordinary living must be also religious. Otherwise animal. Animal also lives. But if you don't live religiously, that is animal. Dharmena hinaḥ pasubhiḥ samanaḥ [Hitopadesa 25]. If you live like animal, then you are animal. If you live like human being, that human being means dharma. We cannot expect any dharma in the animal society. It is meant for the human society.

[someone gives Prabhupada a flower] Hmm, thank you.

Dr. Patel: There is no smell in it.

Prabhupada: Canakya Panḍita has said that a flower without smell and a man without education-the same thing. A flower without smell, similarly, a man without education.

Dr. Patel: Sir, what is the distinction between a culture and an education?

Prabhupada: Culture means human being.

Dr. Patel: Human...?

Prabhupada: Human being. Culture. Just like Canakya Panḍita says, matrvat para-daresu. This is culture, to see every woman as mother. This is not education. Education, the modern meaning of education is rubbish-to learn A-B-C-D. This is not education. Without culture, what is the meaning of education?

Dr. Patel: So culture is the background for all these things.

Prabhupada: Yes. Education is required to help culture. Not that to take degrees from the university and remain a dog. That is not education. Here is education, as Canakya Panḍita outlined:

Here is a description of panḍita: first of all learn how to see other woman as your mother. There the culture begins. And they are, from the very beginning of the school college life, they are learning how to entice one girl. This is education.

Dr. Patel: They are following the so-called advanced countries.

Prabhupada: Advanced means Freud's philosophy.

Dr. Patel: So-called advancement.

Prabhupada: Sex philosophy. This is their education. So how can you expect gentlemen? It is not possible. From the very beginning there is no culture, animal culture. Just like dog: as soon as he finds another female dog, he wants to have sex. This is education.

Dr. Patel: One friend of mine told me that this culture is vultures' culture. They eat anything and everything.

Prabhupada: Yes. Not vultures; it is called hog civilization. The hog, they eat anything and they have sex with anyone.

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. These animals don't distinguish between their own, I mean, bodily relatives.

Prabhupada: Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate yad viḍ-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. This is the instruction. Where is culture? Culture is lost. So therefore there is no value of education. And besides that, education means spiritual education, brahma-vidya. This education how to make aeroplane or a nice bridge or a machine, this is called kala-vidya. This is not vidya.

Dr. Patel: Narayana para vidya.

Prabhupada: No, kala. Kala means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.

Dr. Patel: Yes. And culture means man with morality and...

Prabhupada: Culture means human life. Culture means human life. Otherwise dog's life. There is... There are so many things. There are amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam [Bg 13.8]. Everything is described.

Dr. Patel: That is jnana.

Prabhupada: Amanitvam: first of all you have to learn how to become humble. And here, all the people, they are educated how to become proud. What is education?

Dr. Patel: Christ says, sir, "The meek and humble shall inherit this earth." They, unfortunately, the followers of Christ are not meek and humble.

Prabhupada: And this culture cannot be maintained unless one is God conscious. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. There cannot be any culture for a godless person. That is not possible. And, yasyasti-bhaktir bhagavaty-akincana. Just like this European, American boy is offering obeisances to the guru, this is culture. Why he has learned this culture? Because he has become Krsna conscious. Therefore, yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana, sarvair gunais tatra samasate... [SB 5.18.12]. If you make one devotee of Krsna, then all culture will automatically come. One thing.

[aside:] Hare Krsna.

Dr. Patel: So all devotees are cultured?

Prabhupada: Yes. Theirs is really culture. That, Prahlada Maharaja says, tan manye' dhitam uttamam. Sravanam kirtanam visnu-smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam [SB 7.5.23-24]. Tam manye' dhityam uttamam, he is first-class educated. This is recommendation by Prahlada Maharaja. And Krsna says, "If one is not God conscious: duskrtino, mūḍha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jnana [Bg 7.15]." Where is their qualification? Duskrtina, mūḍha. Where is culture? Suppose you steal by tricks, by, I mean to say, by legal tricks, does it mean it is culture? But that is going on.

Dr. Patel: That means, sir, isavasyam idam sarvam yat kincid jagatyam jagat, tena tyaktena bhunjitha . That should be the background of all the cultures.

Prabhupada: That is bhagavad-dharma... [end]