751104MW.BOM

Giriraja: ...very nice. Very nice.

Gopala Krsna: It's very long also.

Prabhupada: Long and broad. [aside:] Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break] ...is anatha, without any master, like these dogs, loitering, no hope where to get food, where to take shelter. Anatha. Anatha and sa-natha. And you'll find a big man taking care of the dog, and he's fatty and barking like any..., "Aw! Aw! Aw!"-because he has got his master. And this poor fellow has no master; therefore he is suffering, anatha.

[break] ...Yamunacarya, very nice. Mano-rathantaram. Kadaham aikantika-nitya-kihkaraḥ praharsayisyami sa-natha-jivitam.

[break] ...the dog, that "These are saintly persons. If they can take me..." [break]

Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ: "Simply abiding by the orders of Your Lordship," bhavantam eva caran, "acting," nirantaraḥ "twenty-four hours," and prasanta-niḥsesa-mano-rathantaraḥ, "and finishing all this mental business, mental concoction, making plans." Niḥsesa-mano-rathantaraḥ. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ prasanta-niḥsesa-mano-rathantaraḥ, kadaham aikantika-nitya-kihkaraḥ: "When I shall be unalloyedly devotee of Your Lordship, and," praharsayisyami, "I shall be jubilant, living," sa-natha-jivitam, "that 'I have got my master. I have got my master.' I have no cares and anxiety."

This is the ideal of life, to become sa-natha-jivitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently-anatha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anatha. So-called independence means anatha. Anatha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. [aside:] Hare Krsna. Jaya. Eh? Brahmananda was speaking that "We are feeling anatha before coming here"? Yes. Yesterday. "And now we are feeling sa-natha." That's a fact. This godless life is anatha. Foolishly they want to remain anatha. They do not like to be sa-natha. And anatha means the street dog-nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed, somebody is throwing stone. This is their... I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anatha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anatha; I am sa-natha." [break] ...was interested in my mission, in Krsna consciousness. No. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me. So practically... But I was confident that "I am not anatha, but I am sa-natha." [break] ...does not want to become devotee?

Gopala Krsna: No. She is an Arya sama, so... But she believes in God, but she is not surrendered.

Prabhupada: Arya-samajis, do they believe in God? I don't think.

Gopala Krsna: They are impersonalists.

Indian man (1): [Transl. All the women followers of Arya samaja….] [break]

Prabhupada: Parsi, Hindu, Muslim, they will take anyone, provided he teaches you how to love God. Otherwise useless. If you don't get the knowledge how to love God, then it is useless waste of time. Hare Krsna. [break] Every time I would say Hare Krsna, some of them were lying here. I have distributed by sticks. [break] ...it is stated that he was seeing everything material as nonsense, avastuvat. Avastu means no substance. Vastu means substance. And he was surprised how a man can become without Krsna consciousness. Because he was a child, five years old, he was surprised that "How these people, my father and others, they are without Krsna consciousness?"

Dr. Patel: That is mentioned in Bhagavad-gita.

"All bhūtas come to illusion because of iccha, dvesa and dvandva." And when you are relieved from iccha, dvesa and dvandva, then you are mukta.

Prabhupada: Work is going on at night? No.

Saurabha: They are digging all night.

Dr. Patel: These two architects are wonderful people. They are wonderful. They, very quickly got the fill up? I thought it will not be so soon as that.

Prabhupada: Now we are going to have the temple within three months.

Dr. Patel: But then flooring of the cement, flooring needs...

Prabhupada: Everything is there. Just you take care. In Bombay, Calcutta, if you pay for, you can get tiger's blood.

Dr. Patel: That side, you can get tiger's blood and even tiger's milk. But then you can't get time. The cement a certain time, takes certain time to dry, no?

Prabhupada: Then the answer is... No, the architects have promised, within three months.

Dr. Patel: You must have some, some mantras then, architect. Have you got any mantras brought from America or...?

Devotees in distance: Haribol!

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...is practical. [break]

Dr. Patel: ...because God does not want to come out and meet idiots. [laughs]

Prabhupada: No. They obstructed so much, so it must be wall against those persons. From the very beginning they were obstructing. So therefore we raised the wall so that they may not come.

Dr. Patel: But the sadhus must develop their sortie characters as mentioned in Srimad-Bhag...

Prabhupada: But who is sadhu? First of...

Dr. Patel: All these sadhus: satyam [truthfulness], saucam [purity], daya [mercy], santi [peacefulness], and all these things...

Prabhupada: But sadhu... They are sadhu because they are Krsna conscious. Sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg 9.30]. Api cet suduracaraḥ. Their case is different. But others, they are all asadhu, asadhu. Kuto mahad-gunaḥ. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah [SB 5.18.12]. A man may be materially, academically very advanced, but Bhagavata says, kuto mahad-gunah. Because he is not devotee, harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-gunah. "Why? They have got so many qualifications; still, they are not great personality?" No. "Why?" Mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ: "They will only act on their mental platform, speculate." No facts. The fact is that he is soul. He has to change this body. That they have forgotten, and making big, big plan. This is... Prahlada Maharaja regrets, soce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimūḍhan [SB 7.9.43]: "I am thinking of these rascals, fools." Maya-sukhaya: "For maya-sukha," means this false or illusory happiness, "they are making some huge, gorgeous arrangement."

Dr. Patel: That is all because of the body consciousness of a man thinking himself the body and not the soul.

Prabhupada: Yes. Somebody has constructed big, big, big building, but he does not think that how long he will be able to enjoy it. After this body he has to change.

Dr. Patel: That is... In Mahabharata there is one sloka. I don't remember the exact Sanskrit wording, but Yudhisthira said that he so much... I mean, he cannot understand why people see every day people dying outside, but they don't think about that they are going to die...

Prabhupada: Kim ascaryam ataḥ param. Kim ascaryam ataḥ param.

Dr. Patel: Ah, that's right.

Dr. Patel: That is the greatest ascarya.

Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone is dying every moment, but the living man is thinking, "I'll not die."

Dr. Patel: That he is eternal.

Prabhupada: "I'll not die."

Dr. Patel: The body will not die. He does not die, no doubt. That is a fact. But he thinks that the body does not die.

Prabhupada: It is the question of body. That is a fact. But he is attached with this body. So the body will not exist. That he cannot see. He has got spiritual business. That he is neglecting. Everyone at the present moment, all over the world, ask, "Are you engaged with your bodily activities or spiritual activities?" "What is the nonsense spirit? We are all body, this body, so long we have got." Even the big Professor Kotovsky, he said, "Swamiji, everything ends after the body. Why do you bother?"

Dr. Patel: I think Einstein was also saying the same thing. Einstein, Professor Einstein.

Prabhupada: I do not know, but I talked with this gentleman directly. He said... He was a big man in Russia. He said, "Swamiji, after the end of the body everything is finished."

Dr. Patel: They know... These Russians are the only hundred-percent body conscious. The Carvakas. Who are they? They are descendants of Carvakas, these Russians.

Prabhupada: No, in India also, all these political leaders, big ministers...

Dr. Patel: No, no. The Communism itself is Carvakism in a different way. Otherwise our sanatana-dharma is a Communist-dharma, when you see the same eye, everyone in equal. But they don't want that way. They want other way. From body consciousness, not from soul consciousness, they want Communism. Sanatana-dharma preaches us Communism from soul consciousness.

Prabhupada: Where is the understanding of soul? Everyone is puffed up with his body. Nobody considers even that when I say this finger, "my finger," "my head," "my leg..."

Dr. Patel: And who is that "my"?

Prabhupada: And who is that "I"?

Dr. Patel: Who is that, saying it, "my"?

Prabhupada: This is brahma-jijnasa. Athato brahma-jijnasa. When this intelligence comes, then he's a human being. Otherwise he is dog. He is every day saying "my leg," "my head," "my finger," my," "my," but he does not know what is "I."

Dr. Patel: Who is that calling "my."

Prabhupada: Yes. That is God...

Dr. Patel: That is greatest ascarya, next to Dharmaraja's ascarya.

Prabhupada: No, ascarya is death. One may not have this "I" conception, but he has to die. That is a fact. Hare Krsna.

[break] What further arrangement is being made? Today a meeting?

Gopala Krsna: At a quarter to twelve.

Prabhupada: All right.

Gopala Krsna: Mr. Raheja is going to come also. [break]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. Our value compared to these sadhus is less.] [break]

Prabhupada: ...vimūḍha. Soce tato vimukha-cetasa vimūḍhan [SB 7.9.43].

Dr. Patel: That particular sloka which deals with, go-kharaḥ. I am not able to understand much meaning out of it. The whole sloka, so you know, the salile, buddhi, and what is that?

Yasomatinandana: Yasyatma buddhiḥ. [SB 10.84.13]

Prabhupada: [to Yasomatinandana:] That you explain.

Dr. Patel: No, I want you to explain.

Prabhupada: No, he is also panḍita. [laughter]

Dr. Patel: Srimad-Bhagavata Sanskrit little difficult.

Prabhupada: Yasyatma-buddhiḥ-kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. This body is just like a bag made of three dhatus: kaptha, pitta, vayu. Actually it is so. They are thinking that this body is made of blood, muscle, bone and urine and stool. This is the constitution of the body. And these foolish people thinking that the living condition is coming from combination of these things.

Dr. Patel: Material.

Prabhupada: Not only material. Such abominable things as stool, urine, blood, bone, muscle-all rejected things. And they are so foolish that they are accepting that combination of the stool, urine, blood and bones can create a body..., a life. Body is already there. So if you are so big scientist, why don't you take this material and create a life?

Dr. Patel: That is what the Russians say.

Prabhupada: Russians say that the...

Dr. Patel: That the consciousness comes after the combination of...

Prabhupada: We are talking of this verse, that if this is the composition of the body, these things are available anywhere. Why don't you create life? Therefore he is no better than the dogs. He has no intelligence that "How this combination of blood, urine, stool and bone and muscle can create life?" They are thinking that a combination of matter can bring life force. That is the so-called scientists' theory. So these things are available in large quantity, so why don't you create a life? Therefore go-kharaḥ. Their intelligence is not better than the cows and the asses from the very beginning. If they are not cows and asses, how they can think of that combination of these material things can bring in life? When a man dies, find out if there is scarcity of stool or scarcity of urine or scarcity of blood. Bring it and inject it. These rascals, they cannot do it, and still they are calculating urine examination, blood examination and this examination.

Dr. Patel: Idiot. [laughter]

Prabhupada: No, I am not saying. It is sastra. [laughter] Take this dead man's body, and whatever urine and stool is there, examine, and then inject, and come him, let him back, come to life. Then I will understand that your examination of the stool, urine is perfect. This is common question. So long the soul was there, you are very expert to examine stool, urine and this and that. But when the soul is gone... Now the stool is there, urine is there. Why don't you examine and give life? This is our challenge.

Dr. Patel: They say that the life, the consciousness... According to our religion, consciousness, the whole thing is conscious, as a matter of fact. The cosmos itself is consciousnesss...

Prabhupada: Consciousness means soul, soul.

Dr. Patel: Consciousness is the higher sakti of God, I mean, apara tu anya... [Bg 7.5]

Prabhupada: No, no, consciousness... So long the soul is there, the consciousness is there. The consciousness is not there means the soul is not there.

Indian (2): But prabhu, one thing the doctor has got in power, you see, that is this, that suppose he gives a poisonous injection, that is immediately affected, and why the soul is out of immediately?

Prabhupada: No, no, all injection will be effective so long the soul is there.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Give it to the dead bodies, he says.

Prabhupada: That is my point, that if... [aside:] Hare Krsna. If this analysis of the blood, urine and other things can help us, so you can analyze the dead bodies-stool, urine, blood, something is there-and give some injection and let him come to life.

Dr. Patel: [aside:] [Transl. Did you understand? The body will sustain so long the soul is there.]

Prabhupada: Therefore they are go-kharaḥ. Yasyatma-buddhiḥ kunape tri... [SB 10.84.13]

Dr. Patel: So long the soul is there. As soon as the soul dies, goes away, the body will die.

Prabhupada: That is the explanation of the body dies.

Indian: Sometimes we see that poisonous injection is ineffective even the soul is there.

[several talk at once]

Dr. Patel: You don't understand. No, I think your argument is from the different point. [break]

Prabhupada: Jaya. [Transl. You come and your leg… Live with us. We shall…]

Dr. Patel: I have to do something with my leg. Bring the car here.

Prabhupada: So Ambarisa Maharaja, is our argument all right?

Ambarisa: Yes. Yes, it's good argument. It's very sound.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya.

[break] What others' argument? This is my challenge.

Yasomatinandana: Mr. Chug was pointing out...

Prabhupada: Where is that materialistic leader? Here is. What is your argument? Huh? [laughter]

Yasomatinandana: He says that you cannot bring life, but you can bring death immediately. Why is that?

Prabhupada: Huh? Death? He's already dead. What you can bring? Rascal, don't you see that he is already dead? If you have to bring something, you have to bring life. Death is already there.

[dog barking, woman yelling] Hare Krsna. Jaya.

[break] Bhagavata has analyzed, yasyatma-buddhi kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. And this is the beginning of mistake, taking this body as everything and then bodily issues, bodily... Sva-dhiḥ kalatradisu. And because I have got relation with some woman... There are thousands and millions of women, but because I have got bodily relation with some woman, I am so much attracted. That is due to the body. Actually I am not attracted to the woman. There are many millions of women, but that particular woman, wife, because I have got bodily relation with her, I think, "Oh, she is mine. She is mine." Sva-dhiḥ kalatradisu. Kalatradisu, beginning from kalatra, then go on-children, grandchildren, father-in-law, mother-in-law, this one, this one. The beginning is the kalatra. If there is no kalatra, there is no father-in-law, mother-in-law. So sva-diḥ kalatradisu.

Then bhauma ijya-dhiḥ-"This is my country. I am national," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this." Why? The body has grown from this land. You see, every..., the whole world activities is going on on this basis. Sva-dhiḥ kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhiḥ. Ijya. Ijya means worshipable. The brain is full with this idea, dhiḥ. Dhiḥ means buddhi. The brain is congested with all these ideas. Then he wants to become a religious man. What is that? Now, bhauma ijya-dhiḥ Yat-tirtha-buddhiḥ salile. He goes to some holy place and takes bath. They go to Haridwar. The same Ganges in Calcutta, and the same Ganges in Haridwar, but he will go to Haridwar to take bath so that he may think that "I have come to some holy place." The holy place is Ganges, but Calcutta is not holy place and Haridwar is holy place. Yes. Bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Yat-tirtha-buddhiḥ salile. Actually Haridwar or Vrndavana, such places are meant to see great saintly persons, to take some knowledge from them. To take some knowledge from them, that is the purpose of going to the holy place. But without consulting them, without seeing them, he simply dips into the water and he takes, "My pilgrimage is finished." Yat-tirtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit janesv abhijnesv. There are many saintly persons, very experienced. They will not go there. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. These are asses. This conception of life is go-kharaḥ, animal. Go means the cows and asses. This is the explanation of this verse.

All religionists think. They go to Mecca, they go to Jerusalem-to the water. They are not eager, searching out that "Where there is some saintly person in this holy place?" No. They have no such idea. They do not want to consult. Yat-tirtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. And this is further explained by Prahlada Maharaja. What is that? Tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. "All these things happen when one is not Krsna conscious." Tato vimukha cetasaḥ. Vimukha. "Eh! What is this Krsna consciousness?" Tato vimukha... Soce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ maya sukhaya bharam udvahato vimūḍhan [SB 7.9.43].

[pause] The doctor was convinced.

Yasomatinandana: Brahmananda was...

Prabhupada: Doctor was convinced by our views.

Indian: Oh yes. Hundred percent.

Yasomatinandana: Brahmananda Maharaja says he's like a big wall. Everything just bounces from him.

Prabhupada: No, no. This is the general way. [break]

Yasomatinandana: ...what they're doing is that you're not this body, so whatever you do, you just become soul-conscious and everything is all right. There were some so-called sadhus, they eat meat, and they say, "I am not this body. I am not attached."

Prabhupada: No, what is that soul-conscious?

Yasomatinandana: He said, "Whatever my body does, I am not attached to it. I am not this body; I am spirit soul."

Prabhupada: So I am not responsible.

Yasomatinandana: Yes. Therefore they say, "I am not responsible."

Prabhupada: Then why different bodies? If you are not responsible, then why do you get different bodies?

Yasomatinandana: "That is because I did not know in the past that I was..., I am a spirit soul. But now I know that I am spirit soul."

Prabhupada: But you did not know in the past. So you were a fool in the past; you are fool now also. Where is your advancement?

Yasomatinandana: "Now I know that I am a soul. I am not this..."

Prabhupada: Simply by knowing soul is not good. Why you have got this body? Why everyone wants a king's body or a very nice body? Why he gets a dog's body? What is the reason? Everyone wants, "I may have a very good body so that I can enjoy." But why he is baffled? He gets a cat's body, dog's body, insect body, tree's body. He has also body, but he is standing there for hundreds of years. He cannot move an inch. So why you have got this facility of this body that you can move, you can cut, but he cannot protest? He is also body. And what is he? Who?

Yasomatinandana: "It is because of my past karma."

Prabhupada: Then you must first of all rectify your karma, then talk. Past karma, you have got this body. Therefore you must rectify your karma. Karmano 'pi bodhavyam akarmana [Bg 4.17]. You must know what is karma, what is akarma, what is vikarma. That is knowledge. If you remain blind about your karma and by nature's way you get different body, then what is your knowledge? Just like if you go to a doctor, he says that "Due to this infection, you have got this disease," so you know it, so that in future you will be very careful. That is knowledge." I do not know why I have got this disease, and still, I do not know what further it is going on"-that is ignorance.

[aside:] Hare Krsna.

To remain in ignorance, that is the greatest sin. Tamasi ma: "Don't remain in darkness." That is Vedic injunction, "Enlighten yourself." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." But where is your light, you do not know. Hare Krsna.

Gopala Krsna: Karmis say, "Ignorance is bliss."

Prabhupada: [laughs] That's nice. Yes. That is dog's bliss.

Yasomatinandana: They misinterpret this verse, that...

Prabhupada: What is that?

Yasomatinandana: Krsna says to Arjuna that "If you know that you are not this body, then even if you kill all these people, then you are not affected by the reaction."

Prabhupada: But kill by Krsna's order, not whimsically.

Yasomatinandana: Similarly, they say that...

Prabhupada: But if you know that you are not this body-"I am soul"-that what is the soul? Mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ [Bg 15.7]. So just like this finger is itching here-it is by my order-similarly, when you understand that you are soul, then you have to act according to the advice of Krsna. And if you act according to the advice of Krsna there is no papa. That is the meaning. To know that you are soul, then you must know what is the soul. That is... Krsna explains, mamaivamso: "These jiva-bhūta, these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So as soon as you realize aham brahmasmi, then you act in that Brahman platform: brahma-bhutaḥ prasannatma na socati na kahksati [Bg 18.54].

That is the platform. To understand simply "I am Brahman" and remain silent, that is not. Mad-bhaktim labhate param. If you are actually brahma-bhūtaḥ, then next stage is brahma-bhūtaḥ means to act in devotional service. That is real. [aside:] Hare Krsna. Jaya.

Yasomatinandana: Just like when some people say...

Prabhupada: Now, simply their point is that you realize or I realize Brahman, that is not the end. You realize fully. They think to Brahman means to stop all activities; now you become dull, without any activities. So that is not the end. The Bhagavad-gita says if you are brahma-bhūtaḥ, then come to this point: mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg 18.54]. Then you will stay. And if you simply stay on brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, then you'll again fall down. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavata, that ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninaḥ. They are thinking, "Now I am relieved from the conditional life."

But actually he's not. Ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They are thinking like that, "Now I am liberated." He's not liberated. Why? Tvayy asta-bhavat. Asta-bhavat: "He has no still information of You." If he is actually brahma-bhutaḥ, then he knows the Supreme Brahman, Para-brahman, and then he engages himself in His service. And when he is engaged in that service there is no question of material, tri-gunatmakam. Sa-gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya... [Bg 14.26].

That is real Brahman, when he is above these three gunas. Otherwise, if you think, "Now I have become liberated," maybe by your liberation liberated, but it will not stay. You'll fall down again. Just like this land. You can take it-here is land-but at night it will be water. Is it not?

Ambarisa: Yes.

Prabhupada: You must go to the real land. If you take, "This is land. Now I am safe," no, that is not safe. At night it will be overcome. And that, to go to the real land, means to become a devotee. Then it will stay. If you are suffering from some disease, you see now the temperature is gone down or there is no temperature, that is all right. But if you do not take care, it may relapse. That is the point. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannatma na socati [Bg 18.54]. These are brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. But samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu mad-bhaktim. If he does not go up to that point, mad-bhaktim labhate param, then you are unstable. You can fall down at any moment. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate .

If you are in Brahman stage, then you make further progress to understand Paramatma. Then you must make further progress to understand the Supreme Person, God. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti. So unless you come to the stage of understanding Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no safety. Then you may fall down at any moment. Therefore we see so, so many Mayavadi sannyasis, yogis, they fall down. They fall down. Big, big sannyasi, they, after studying so much... The Karpatraji, now he is fall down to politics. Vivekananda, he fell down to hospital. That is falldown. You say, brahma satya jagan mithya: "The world is false." Why you come down to false again? That means you did not get any substance in your so-called Brahman knowledge.

Yasomatinandana: Vivekananda fell down still further, because he said...

Prabhupada: No, no, further... Not... At least we can see this, that after preaching Vedanta, he came in India. He became captivated with hospital-as if there was no hospital. There are many thousands of hospital, and ordinary men, they are inclined to open hospitals. Why...? You have realized brahma-satya. Why you come to hospital? And nobody questions. Your progress would have been completed when you, in..., mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg 18.54], if you had been promoted to the bhakti stage. That you haven't got. You come to the hospital stage. That means falling down. [break]

Yasomatinandana: That is also propounded by him only, that "You can do anything as long as you know that you are not this body, you are soul." I heard that one day he went into the Muslim mosque and said, "Today I am a Muslim, so I can eat beef today. Tomorrow I am a Christian, so I can eat this. Because I am not this body," he said.

Prabhupada: That was done by Ramakrishna also. And when he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple, that "Now I shall practice the Muslim way of religion. So I shall eat beef," so the proprietor said, "Kindly go out and practice it outside." [laughter]

[break] ...exemplified like this: on the glass it appears like a sun, but it is not sun. A reflection, pratibimba. [break] A man can understand that dahi is nothing but milk. [Transl. It's milk only. Everyone knows. Why a small child is not given yogurt, but milk? Ask him?]

Indian man (4): [Transl. But first…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, no. First of all you understand this. Then you ask people in general that everyone knows that at night the milk is converted to yogurt. Then why do you not feed yogurt to your child in the morning? You wait for the milk. Tell him to answer or you answer. At home they know that all the milk was turned to yogurt, so yogurt is available. Milk has not come as yet. So feed him yogurt. Who doesn't know this?] Why you wait for the milk? [Transl. A fool will say, what difference does it make? This is milk only. Feed him. Then he's finished. The child will suffer from Pneumonia and die. What do you say? Hare Krsna. Milk and yogurt are one, but why the child is not fed yogurt and they wait for the milk? Answer?]

Indian man (4): [Transl. I don't know. Might be different effect of yogurt and milk.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why different effect? It is milk only. Why different effect?]

Indian man (4): Practices are changed after.

Prabhupada: That one has to understand. [Transl. Sivaji is God only, but his function is different. We too are Gods. We are all Gods. Svamsa and vibhinnamsa [In the Vedas it is stated that the one becomes many]. Eko bahu syama. [Madhya 20.173] The one God has become many. So he is also God, worship him. Everyone is god, sarvam khalv idam brahma [Chandogya Upanisad 3.14.1] So worship him. Why do you go to the temple then?]

Indian man (2): [Transl. What he means to say is that both the items are separate.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. First of all you yourself understand then talk of others.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. I don't have to convince him. I myself need to be convinced.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If you understand properly then you will be able to convince others. You try to understand why it is so? Everyone knows what is milk and yogurt. Yogurt is nothing but milk. Yet you cannot use yogurt to fulfil the need of the milk. Why?]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Because the taste is different…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Whatever it is. The effect will be different. [break]…

The form with which… [break] The Supreme Lord is devotees'…] [end]