Room Conversation – January 17, 1976, Māyāpur

760117R1-Mayapur [20:44 Minutes]

The transcendental meditation-you will get this, you will get that

Devotee (1): "...Sanat Kumaras were going to Vaikuntha to visit Lord Visnu. They were stopped at the door by the doorkeepers, Jaya and Vijaya. But specifically, the Supreme Lord cannot be seen by ordinary eyes. But He can now become visible to the eyesight of the Kumaras. Another significant word is samadhi-vakyam. Meditators who are very fortunate see the Visnu form of the Lord within their hearts by following the yoga process. But to see Him eye to eye is a different matter. It is only possible for pure devotees. The Kumaras therefore, before seeing the Lord..." [break]

Bhavananda: ...aratika?

Prabhupada: No. No. That...

Bhavananda: They have kirtanas...

Prabhupada: Going on.

Bhavananda: Yes. [break]

Devotee (1): They could see the Lord face to face?

Prabhupada: Yes. Dhruva Maharaja saw face to face. [break]

Sudama: ...factured this in Hawaii. [break]

Prabhupada: So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Krsna is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Krsna conscious. Sarva-dharman..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cokhe yadi lage bhala kena dekhbo na: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cokhe yadi lage bhala: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me?" This is going on. Cokhe yadi lage bhalo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering; it will go on. The Carvaka Muni: rnam krtva ghrtam pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Rnam krtva: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat, and enjoy life." This is the material world. But sastra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. [SB 5.5.1] Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge-karmi, jnani, yogi-they are also after sense gratification. Karmi is openly after sense gratification, and jnani is subtly: "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyam jagan mithya. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming... I have failed; now I shall become God. Same sense grati... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not..., no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and... No. I shall become God. Why shall I... By becoming king or minister I beg to the goddess of fortune, 'Mother, give me a little money.' Why shall I beg? I shall enjoy her. I become Narayana." Same disease. A yogi also, after mystic power they want to show magic: "I shall make like this, and gold will be there. People will worship me as I am God." Do that. People do that. If you play something wonderful they will accept you: "Oh, you are God." But he does not know that he cannot become God. That is not possible. Although he gets little fractional authority to puzzle others that he has become God... Because people are fools, if he can produce little gold like this, they will be immediately amazed: "Oh, how powerful he is." They have no capacity to understand. If God is meant for making gold, why not worship the God who has made already millions of gold mines? Unlimited. There is no limit. Why this paltry god? They have no such knowledge. They are amazed.

Hari-sauri: They have to go to so much trouble as well just to achieve that little flickering...

Prabhupada: Very, very great trouble. You have not seen the yogis? Of course, there are some... [break] But still, they have to undergo very severe processes for achieving this yogic power. And a devotee, they kick it, that "What is this nonsense?" [chuckles] That is devotee. "What is this nonsense? What shall I do by producing gold?" And I never tried for making gold, but is there any scarcity of gold? I never tried for how to make gold. That Sai Baba is showing some magic power. What of the Maharshi? Maha...

Harikesa: Maharishi.

Prabhupada: He was also after some yogic power.

Harikesa: I don't know.

Prabhupada: You were with him. You do not know? "The transcendental meditation-you will get this, you will get that." He is advertising in that...

Hari-sauri: All material opulence.

Harikesa: Ultimately you will become God.

Prabhupada: Yes. This is the attempt.

Hari-sauri: And in the meantime, you can enjoy material world.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Harikesa: They never said anything more than you'll just get good sex life and good health.

Prabhupada: That is... Becoming God means the same-money and sex. That's all.

Harikesa: Wouldn't it be handy, though, to be able to fly around without having to use airplanes?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Harikesa: I mean, if you had some mystic opulence like being able to fly.

Prabhupada: Yes, the yogis can do that.

Harikesa: Wouldn't that be handy? Wouldn't a devotee... Couldn't a devotee utilize that?

Prabhupada: What is the use? What is the use?

Harikesa: Well, instead of taking airplanes here and there, you could just...

Prabhupada: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without aeroplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds, they fly from one tree to another, take rest again-so they fly from this planet to another, take rest, again another. What is the value of your aeroplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds, they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become..., it has become God? There are Siddhaloka planets where the people can go without any aeroplane from one planet to another, Siddhaloka. They have got all yogic siddhi automatically, by birth. Just like we cannot fly, but a small bird, a small fly, from the birth it can fly. There are so many. So similarly, by birth they have got all yogic siddhis. This is called Siddhaloka. There are different varieties of planets, different varieties of perfection. Just like here also, I cannot dive into the water. A small fish can dive. I cannot fly in the sky, but a small sparrow, it can go from here, here, immediately. So does it mean he is very advanced in yogic power because he can fly? You are proposing that. Huh? Nothing is any big achievement. The big achievement is how to become Krsna conscious. That is wanted. Not these things. These things... You cannot do; I can do. I cannot do; he can do. What is the greatness?

Harikesa: It seems harder to control the tongue than to fly.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Harikesa: It seems harder to control the tongue than to fly.

Prabhupada: Fly?

Harikesa: It takes more austerity to control one's tongue by chanting and taking prasadam.

Prabhupada: Even that is not achievement. To control the senses, that is not very great achievement. The great achievement: how we have become a pure devotee of Krsna. So that will include everything. You haven't got to prepare gold, but if you want gold, Krsna will send you. So why should I try for that and waste my time? Let me become fully Krsna conscious. That is required. Krsna... Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg 9.22]:

"I shall give you all protection. I shall supply whatever you want," Krsna said. So I shall do such thing when Krsna will be my protector and supplier and everything. He is all-powerful, so He will do that-if I require. I don't require anything. I... Simply I have to become a sincere, pure devotee. But if I require something, it will come from Krsna. Why shall I try for it? A rich man's son, he doesn't do anything for earning money. He knows, "My father is rich, and as soon as I require money, he will give me. So why shall I become a big, big businessman and become a karmi?" Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. You try for that thing which you did not achieve so long, even if you have traveled from different species of life, different planets. For that thing you try, which you have not achieved. Simply you have become implicated.

Hari-sauri: Why bother with something that's available to a hog?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Hari-sauri: Why bother with something that is available even to the hogs?

Prabhupada: Yes. Now, even if you achieve such thing, achievement, so where is the guarantee that you'll..., it will stay? The so-called achievements for sense gratification, that means body. The body is always troublesome. That day I was asking, "Did you taste the Birla's eggplant?" You said, "No, I could not take it," due to the body. So even things are there, the body will not allow you. There are many rich men, they have got money, but they cannot eat anything.

Hari-sauri: That John Paul Getty is the richest man in the world, and they asked him, "What would be your wish if you could have anything?" He said, "I just want to be healthy." He said, "I've got so much money, but I'm not healthy."

Prabhupada: Yes. There are many. There was a big, rich man in Calcutta, Raja Yatindramohana Thakura. So just like you give me so many things, so he was king, he was getting more supply, but he had no appetite. So one day he was given so many things-because it was routine. So one coolie was going on the street, taking a fish and chanting very pleasingly. So he said that "Instead of becoming Raja Yatindramohana Thakura, if I could have been a coolie like that, at least I could enjoy by eating. And what is this? I have got everything, but I cannot eat." He regretted, "I would have become a coolie like that instead of becoming a..."

Hari-sauri: Everybody's mad after getting some big position, and then when they get it they find out it's even worse than where they started.

Prabhupada: Because the body does not allow. So all, from all sides. We were discussing Prahlada Maharaja's..., how he is experienced of this material way of life. It is all useless. So by following this mahajana devotees we can make our life perfect. Nothing is wanted except Krsna consciousness. That is perfection of life. That is instruction of... Na dhanam na janam na sundarim .

No, we don't want. Then what do you want? Mama janmani janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki. Without any motive let me become a sincere devotee of Lord. I don't want. That is perfection. Disgusted. Ara nare bapa. No more. Everything useless.

[pause]

Prabhupada: Hmm. Some smell is coming? No?

Harikesa: Your transcendental senses are far beyond...

Prabhupada: [door closes] Hmm. Automatically locked.

Harikesa: The ghosts will be here too.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Harikesa: The ghosts, they will be here too. [end]