Morning Walk – September 19, 1972, Los Angeles

720919MW-Los Angeles [51:08 Minutes]

He wants to eat stool, 'All right, here give him this body'

Svarūpa Damodara: Morning walk September 19, Tuesday, 1972. Los Angeles.

[in car]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] ...don't know how they are becoming entangled, by this continues change of material body. That is defect of the modern civilization. Klesada asa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. Klesada. Any material body, that is… klesada.

Klesa means "pains." Da, da means "killing." Any material body, it doesn't matter [indistinct], it is troublesome. They do not know. They try to get out of trouble, but the real trouble is covering him. He does not know. Just like the deer, they grow musk on their navel.

Syamasundara: They grow what?

Prabhupada: Musk.

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes, musk. Serum.

Prabhupada: By the smell, they become mad: "Where is that smell? Where is that smell? Where is that smell?" Mad. But he does not know that the smell is within his navel. Similarly these rascals, they are trying to make solution of the problem. But the rascal does not know that the problem is this material body.

Prabhupada: They are trying to solve outside.

Syamasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupada: And they are passing as scientists and philosophers. Klesada asa dehaḥ. God is so kind that if you want any kind of material pleasure, He will give you a suitable body. Yantrarūḍhani mayaya [Bg 18.61]. Maya immediately orders a fully fit body. He wants to eat stool, "All right, here give him this body." He wants to drink fresh blood, "All right, give him this body." He wants to harm people without any offense, "All right, give it to him." Any kind of sense gratification.

There are varieties of bodies, 8,400,000 species of…, varieties of bodies, and is given chance: "All right, enjoy this." Want this car? "All right, take this car." So he does not know that this car is troublesome. He doesn't know. He is trying to solve the problem otherwise. His real trouble is birth, death, old age and disease due to this body, and he is suffering continuously three kinds of miserable condition. But he does not know that "Due to this body I am suffering. So how to stop this acceptance of material body?" That is all. What do you say, Mr. Scientist?

Svarūpa Damodara: Well, Srila Prabhupada, just to depend on the…

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarūpa Damodara: Well, just simply depend on the mercy of Krsna, because other than that, there is no way.

Prabhupada: Still they do not know that this body is the cause of all trouble. They do not know it.

Svarūpa Damodara: Because they miss Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is later on. But this very fact, nūnam pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. They're mad after sense gratification. They are doing all nonsense. Vikarma. Vikarma means prohibited action. If you constantly break the laws of the state, you will be, one after another, you will be liable for punishment.

But if an outlaw does not know this, and if he wants to be happy, how he can be happy? What is his reply, Syamasundara? He does not know. Klesada asa dehaḥ. You have tried many things in your past life to become happy, but because it was simply breaking law, you could not.

Syamasundara: You can't beat the law.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Syamasundara: You can't beat the law. There is no way you can escape the law. It's always… Otherwise he gets justice. So many people tried…

Prabhupada: That they do not know. That I am breaking the laws always.

Syamasundara: No criminal ever escapes free. He gets punished in the end.

Prabhupada: Even he can escape the man-made laws without any fail, God [indistinct].

Svarūpa Damodara: When he has had so many sinful activities in the past life, that... we are...

Svarūpa Damodara: Past or present.

Prabhupada: Both.

Svarūpa Damodara: Both. So we are entrapped in this material body.

Prabhupada: Bodily encagement, and you are getting different types of body. He is thinking, "Now I am first-class thief."

Syamasundara: As soon as you begin breaking the law…. Most criminals, when they begin to break the law, they get puffed up, proud: they are doing something; they are getting away.

Prabhupada: Yes. He does not know that he is making another type of [indistinct].

Syamasundara: And as soon as they get puffed up like that, automatically they give themselves up, away. Then they can be detected. They get careless.

Prabhupada: These rascals do not know that for breaking ordinary laws, there are so many arrangements by the state: CID department, this department, this department, that department. And God has no department? They have taken God as fool number one, that they can do anything and everything, and God will not be able to check.

He does not know that God is residing within your heart. He is looking every second, every moment, for your activities, and it is being noted down. Anumanta upadrsta. Upadrsta. Always seeing what you are doing, what you want: "All right, take it."

Svarūpa Damodara: They do not, Srila Prabhupada, because of the…, also concept that…

Prabhupada: They do not know. They do not know; that is a fact. But when you give them knowledge, they will not accept, that's their obstinate. This is foolishness. A man is ignorant, that is not fault. But when he is given the knowledge, he does not accept, he is rascal number one.

Svarūpa Damodara: Because he thinks that he is the controller.

Prabhupada: Whatever he may think. But if he cannot accept this knowledge, then he is a rascal, a rogue. Duskrtino mūḍhaḥ [Bg 7.15]. Mūrkhayo 'padeso hi prakopaya na santaye. If he is described a rascal, he will be simply angry. He will not accept the instruction. This is their position. They are so fool, rascal, the standard knowledge they will not accept.

They are researching. What a fool can make research? After all, you are a fool. What research you can make? What is the value of your research? Here is this…Nūnam pramattaḥ kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. The Bhagavatam is so nice.

Svarūpa Damodara: It is.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarūpa Damodara: Everything in Srimad-Bhagavatam.

[out of car]

Prabhupada: Bhagavatam is describing all this nonsense as pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means "mad," "crazy." All of them, crazy. Nūnam pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Their only business is to act subversively, not rightly. So what do you say, Karandhara prabhu?

Karandhara: Oh…

Prabhupada: You are a great supporter of the materialists?

Svarūpa Damodara: [laughs]

Prabhupada: Now what is your answer?

Karandhara: They'll say the body may be the only source of pain, but it is also the only source of pleasure, according to their…

Prabhupada: That is not pleasure. You are creating another pain. That is the nonsense.

Karandhara: But if they're willing for every pleasure…

Prabhupada: Just like a camel. Camel is drinking his own blood, and he is thinking, "I am enjoying." That pleasure is like that. Just like when you have sex enjoyment you are spoiling your blood, and you're thinking, "I am enjoying."

Svarūpa Damodara: Because the camel does not understand…

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: …that blood is coming out from his own mouth.

Prabhupada: Yes, therefore that is not pleasure. That is…, that proves that you are a camel.

Karandhara: Say one or two…

Prabhupada: You are eating thorns, and you are thinking that you're enjoying.

Karandhara: Some would say, "Well, if you thinking you're enjoying, that's all that counts."

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. That is not enjoyment. [laughter] Still he is thinking it is enjoyment.

Syamasundara: Just like these two people, they think they are enjoying on their…, riding their bicycles in the morning. But they're getting old. They won't be able to…

Prabhupada: No, that is… That does not… [indistinct] This path is made very recently; it is cracked. [indistinct] It is new?

Syamasundara: They tried to pour concrete on sand.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] This is going on. Especially in India.

Syamasundara: Bad asphalt.

Prabhupada: Yes so many cracks.

Svarūpa Damodara: One of the points is that it is not very uniform.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarūpa Damodara: It is not very homogenizedly mixed. That's what makes it break.

Prabhupada: That means neglectfully done. The contractor, he is a rogue. Or he does not know. Cheating.

Syamasundara: Everything in America is made to last only a few years now, and then replaced.

Prabhupada: It is not few months even.

Syamasundara: [laughs]

Prabhupada: Everything has to be [indistinct] now.

Syamasundara: No one can think beyond about two or three years' time.

Svarūpa Damodara: Everyone is rushing or something.

Prabhupada:

The body sometimes becomes so painful that one commits suicide. The body is the source of pain, different types of pain. Therefore sometimes, when one cannot tolerate any more the painful condition of body, he commits suicide. That is the proof that this body is the source of pain.

Svarūpa Damodara: There are people from Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco and in Niagara Falls, they do suicide, very, very often.

Prabhupada: Oh, there are many places. In Calcutta there is a lake, that Baligon's[?] Lake.

Svarūpa Damodara: Baligon's[?] Lake, ah. [Hindi]

Prabhupada: That lake we used to…

Syamasundara: They jump?

Prabhupada: That was the place for young men's suicide.

Svarūpa Damodara: Oh!

Prabhupada: Mostly young boy and young girl, sometimes embracing at their suicide. Because this free love is not allowed, so they have been implicated in free love, now society will not accept. So they commit suicide. There are many, many. Now it is going on, free love.

Karandhara: Even so-called big man like that lawyer, the other night. Their whole life they live on sentiment. Their son is giving them some problems, or sentimentally they think this or that. And because they live on their sentiments, they're always experiencing pain.

Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as you live artificially, you will be troubled. Pramattaḥ. Therefore they have been described as pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means "mad," "crazy." Prakrsta-rūpena mattaḥ. Mattaḥ mean "mad," and pra means "exclusively mad."

Svarūpa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada, those people who are committing suicide.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: If they sometimes… The people say that, "Well, I will chant Hare Krsna or be God conscious," and then take some poison and die immediately. Then what happens to their life?

Prabhupada: They get again body. Or maybe they may be liberated. Chanting Hare Krsna and committing suicide can be allowed. Can be allowed.

Syamasundara: It can be allowed?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Syamasundara: Just like, uh…

Prabhupada: Because Hare Krsna means counteracting your sins. Even though you have committed sin, it is counteracted. There is no sin.

Svarūpa Damodara: There is no sin?

Prabhupada: [aside: Be careful.]

That you have chanted Hare Krsna mantra at the time of death, that will be taken seriously.

Devotee: Isn't that one of the offenses, though?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee: Isn't that one of the offenses? Committing sinful activities on the strength of chanting?

Prabhupada: Yes, it may be offensive, but still…

Devotee: But it is still counteracted?

Svarūpa Damodara: Well, sometimes he is so frustrated with the material body that he…

Prabhupada: Offensive means, even it is taken as offensive, he is getting a human body, not a ghostly body.

Syamasundara: Just like our devotee in Calcutta committed suicide. He was …

Prabhupada: Who?

Syamasundara: That tall boy, Indian boy.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Syamasundara: That tall boy, Indian boy, he committed suicide. He was chanting and had a picture of Krsna at the time death.

Prabhupada: Oh, he did like that?

Syamasundara: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: What did he do?

Syamasundara: He had a picture of you and a picture of Krsna in front of him when he killed himself.

Prabhupada: Why did he commit suicide? What happened to him?

Syamasundara: Well, I don't know the full story, but Bhavananda said that he was implicated with some girl.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Karandhara: And he became addicted to drugs.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Syamasundara: And he kept coming to the temple, and he realized that his life…, he could not change his material life. He wanted to get out of it, so he just killed himself.

Prabhupada: He was living nicely in the temple. His parents took him, huh? No.

Syamasundara: I don't know why he left the temple. He…, just the day before he committed suicide, Bhavananda brought him to the temple…

Prabhupada: Yes, he came to me.

Syamasundara: And then he made him sit down and chant. He chanted in front of the deities all day.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Syamasundara: Then he went home that night and just killed himself. He left some message, note, behind…

Prabhupada: Ah.

Syamasundara: …about how he just wanted to end his miserable life. And he hoped that he would get a better body next time for becoming a devotee.

Prabhupada: Oh, a very good [indistinct].

Syamasundara: This tar now is all over the…

Prabhupada: Huh?

Karandhara: This tar is now all over the temple, clothing, everything.

Prabhupada: Clothing also?

Syamasundara: Yeah.

Devotee: I've ruined a couple of dhotis from it.

Prabhupada: How did it get here? Just see how contamination expands.

Syamasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Even ordinary tar, contamination. This is gross contamination.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: And there are many things subtle contamination. [indistinct] Junior Haridasa.

Svarūpa Damodara: Junior Haridasa, yes.

Prabhupada: He committed suicide. Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected him.

Syamasundara: What was that boy's name in Calcutta? I can't remember. Cakravarti was his name.

Svarūpa Damodara: Cakravarti?

Syamasundara: Then he became…, got initiated.

Prabhupada: His father was an officer.

Syamasundara: In a shipping company, or a docks, isn't it?

Prabhupada: Docks.

Syamasundara: Calcutta docks? [break]

Prabhupada: So what does she want?

Syamasundara: I don't know. She wrote… She handed me a letter to give to you last night.

Prabhupada: Last night?

Syamasundara: I don't know what she wants. I think she wants to go to India or something.

[aside: Is she going to India?]

Karandhara: She wants to get married.

Syamasundara: She said there is nobody that… She is thirty years old, and there is no one to marry her.

Prabhupada: So why she is after marriage? It's past thirty years without marriage. So you can ask her to see me. To talk. [chanting japa]

Svarūpa Damodara: Some of the laws of chemical measure are discovered from the seashores. Like there is a theory called chemical equilibrium. The theory of the concept of chemical equilibrium derives from the seashore, by finding out the deposits of sodium carbonate and bicarbonate in course of time. [break]

Prabhupada: Kevala-bodha [SB 10.14.4]. Klisyanti kevala-bodha. Just suffering, simply by trying to understand. Kevala-bodha. There is no actually benefit, but simply "The carbon dioxide is deposited, it is made like this, it is made like that." But ultimately he'll die. [laughs] So these are another trouble.

He cannot save himself from death, old age, disease, but he is making research. So that is described: kevala-bodha. Klisyanti kevala-bodha. They are suffering and laboring simply to know. They cannot derive any benefit out of it.

[break] …kaw, kaw, kaw, and then he says, "You have come. Come on." [indistinct]... the proof is there. There was no immigration department when the Britishers were there-no passport, no visa, long, long ago. Chinese used to sail. Everyone, from all countries, they used to go to India.

Karandhara: Because the culture didn't protect itself, therefore now it is gone.

Prabhupada: That is they did not know, that one has to protect their soul-oppressed. Just like rogues and thieves, they did not know it. But you know it. Because that "My brother is a rogue, he must be stopped. Keep a dog."

You know that your brother is a dog; therefore you keep a dog. But they did not know. The human being is ignorant, just like child. That is real purpose. Why a man should be treated as enemy? And why a man becomes…, should become another's enemy? This was unknown to India.

Devotee: People of India at that time were not…

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee: …motivated by false ego as much as…

Prabhupada: No, they were very simple-God conscious, Krsna conscious. But still in villages they're God conscious, Krsna conscious.

Karandhara: They will also be exploited.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: You find, they'll also all be exploited.

Prabhupada: Yes, because it's easy for them. Just like you can exploit a child, but you cannot exploit a rogue.

Devotee: They were God conscious, Krsna conscious. Did Krsna not protect them from these rogues?

Prabhupada: Well, Krsna is protecting them. It does not mean that because they haven't got flyways and motorcars they are not protected. Protection means what? Your protection idea is very limited. You want to be protected for a few years. But the protection of Krsna is perpetually you are being protected.

Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg 4.9]. You don't get any more material body. That is real protection. If you are protected for fifty years and next life become a dog, so what is your position? That is not protection. But this culture is giving you protection for future, eternally. Be Krsna conscious and be protected for good. Therefore Krsna… Hey?

Karandhara: That is one of the main problems, because 99.9% of the people, they don't want…, they don't care about the next life.

Prabhupada: Exactly.

Karandhara: ...they only want to be...

Prabhupada: How much foolish they are.

Svarūpa Damodara: That is why to understand that "I am not this body." The first step.

Prabhupada: That means ignorance, full of ignorance. He is not this body, that is a fact, but he does not know it.

Karandhara: They don't want to hear it. It's like in China when Mao Tse-tung took over. They made a law that anyone who is preaching life after death he was repeatedly shot.

Prabhupada: Is it that?

Karandhara: Yes, they may have got more lenient now but after he took over he told all the Buddhist monks...

Prabhupada: Ah.

Karandhara: …that if you preach that there is life after death.

Prabhupada: The Buddhist they did not preach, they say "zero."

Karandhara: But they say there is reincarnation up until the point you become liberated or zero. So they were instructed if they preach like that they would be shot.

Prabhupada: Just see, how much people are becoming degraded. Yes people are coming to that stage in every country. No more talk of God. Already it is there, in India the Vivekananda, that "Everyone is God, why you are seeking after God?"

Karandhara: Materialists consider that if people think that they have many lives they won't work so hard in this life. They will become more docile and not so interested to work very hard.

Prabhupada: But what is the benefit of working hard?

Karandhara: That is their illusory...

Prabhupada: After all you are going to die, he is going to become old, by working hard if you could save yourself from birth, death, old age, and disease then you're working hard is successful. But if you cannot live cannot stop your old age cannot stop your death, disease, then why you're working so hard like an ass?

The ass does not know why he is working so hard therefore they are called mūḍha. The example of ass is loading tons of cloth upon the back but he does not know why he is working so hard. What is his personal benefit? Or others benefit? He is a burden..., a beast of burden that's all.

Karandhara: All right in China.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Karandhara: Some people would comment that for so long they didn't even have enough, the people were suppressed and exploited for so long..

Prabhupada: That is a different thing why we are not preaching that you suppress people and exploit people. We say enlighten people we don't say suppress so if one is suppressed that is a very different thing. We don't suppress we want to make everyone full knowledge brahmana that is not suppression that is elevation. So why elevation should be compared with suppression?

Karandhara: Well because in the past those who came and exploited them they also preached...

Prabhupada: That is another thing if somebody cheats you with counterfeit money that does not mean that there is no real money.

Devotee: People have become very sceptical though, that there is real money.

Prabhupada: That is another-nonsense. Because you have been cheated therefore there is no honest man. You are unfortunate you could not meet an honest man. You cannot say there is no honest man.

Svarūpa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada also in Dallas in that Indian family one of the persons asked how can I find out an intelligent person, or a saintly person?

Prabhupada: If you are intelligent..

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes Srila Prabhupada answer.

Prabhupada: If you are intelligent you can find out, if you are a rascal you'll find out asses. Just like when you go to purchase something from the store if you are intelligent you'll purchase the first-class. If you are a fool they will cheat you. So it depends on you.

[break] ...they are taking to Krsna consciousness and those who are rascals they are going to Guru Baba-Guru Maharaja. This is the proof.

Svarūpa Damodara: [laughs] yes that's a nice example.

Prabhupada: From Guru Maharaja somebody is coming to Krsna consciousness but from Krsna consciousness nobody is going to Guru Maharaja.

Devotee: Jaya. [break]

Prabhupada: How can so many people have come to our camp? But from our camp where is the-almost nil. [break] Oh hari-nama...

[in car]

[break] [indistinct] that is called it [indistinct] or advanced? But still people are attracted. It is a fact Bhagavad-gita was spoken from the historical point of view 5000 years ago. So according to modern scientists view 5000 years ago people were fools and primitive.

Karandhara: I don't think most historians consider it was spoken 5000 years ago.

Prabhupada: Well most-but we have got our own authority not that we have to accept this authority of the historian. There are many historians they have proved 5000 years ago Vyasadeva has spoken. That disagreement is always there, a section believes a section does not believe. That is in every case why do you take only Bhagavad-gita? In every case, a section will accept a section will not accept.

Karandhara: Well the so-called most authoritative like even Dr. Radhakrishna himself was...

Prabhupada: But Dr. Radhak.. Is no.. According to our authority he is a rascal.

Karandhara: According to the majority..

Prabhupada: We have got authority, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Caitanya we have so such authorities not a rascal like Radhakrishna.

Karandhara: Unfortunately the majority accept him.

Prabhupada: The majority may have accepted him but they are simply dogs and camels and hogs. The majority is compared with these hogs, camels and dogs, sva-viḍ-varahostra-kharaiḥ [SB 2.3.19]. What is the use of majority vote if they are camels and dogs and hogs?

Devotee: [chanting japa] [break].

Prabhupada: [indistinct] are not bona-fide. The [indistinct] also [indistinct], why the Communists everyone [indistinct] maybe [indistinct].

Devotee: [chanting japa]

Prabhupada: Socrates was killed for this reason, eh? Because he believed in the soul, the immortality of the soul.

Karandhara: Socrates would go around and he would ask questions.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: He would go around and ask questions to everyone.

Prabhupada: Ha.

Karandhara: And the questions were so disturbing that everyone became... They wanted to get rid of him.

Prabhupada: What was the question?

Karandhara: Well he would ask questions in that connection about what is the value of so much material things? What is the value of an imperfect government? The nonsense civilisation. So much agitating...

Prabhupada: They were very kind upon him. That they allowed him to speak. But eh, Socrates is the beginning of Western philosopher.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes his wife was also teaching him, for becoming a philosopher. His wife used to throw water upon him. You know that?

Karandhara: No I didn't know that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: [laughs]

Prabhupada: She was so disgusted that she would take a bucket full of water and throw it.

Devotee: So we have an understanding that when one takes his own life he takes a ghosts body but in the case of Socrates who was an advanced soul would the understanding be there?

Karandhara: Well he was actually... he didn't actually commit suicide.

Devotee: He drank the hemlock.

Prabhupada: But he did not.

Karandhara: He was forced.

Devotee: He was forced.

Prabhupada: He was forced that is not suicide. If I kill you that is not suicide.

Svarūpa Damodara: We can see the Sun now. [laughs]

Prabhupada: Ha?

Svarūpa Damodara: We can see the Sun. [break]

Prabhupada: What is there? [break] he wants to exactly imitate Western culture. So they do not like our movement Indian authorities.

Svarūpa Damodara: The Westerners in general think that whatever they do is the best.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Svarūpa Damodara: The Westerners.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Svarūpa Damodara: In all fields they think that whatever they do is the best.

Prabhupada: Yes because the whole world approves.

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Now skyscraper buildings was began from America now everyone is imitating.

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes.

Prabhupada: The flyways the highways, the sky everything. America developed the hippies they are imitating also [indistinct]. In India they are also imitating even in the very aristocratic families I've seen hippies cut out of one of the most rich and aristocratic families in Bombay.

Their sons and daughters became hippies. In Nairobi I have seen that Damji he has a small mansion he is imitating hippies. When there was war, First World War, some of the High Court judges were talking about the war. They were talking friendly one English judge asked Mr Mukherjee, Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, "Well Mr Mukherjee the Germans are getting powerful if they come what you will do?"

He said, "Yes Sir, we will do like this, so we will welcome." He asked, "why?" "Because you have taught us like this. Anything European must be good. The Germans are Europeans. You have taught nothing better than this and anything European is first-class. So Germans and Europeans we shall welcome." [break]

My movement from this angle of vision that, "these things we rejected we threw it away and how is that this Bhaktivedanta Svami is preaching and European and Americans are accepting?" They are appreciating only this point, not the philosophy. In every paper they discuss like that, "How is it? We rejected such kind of things that there is no necessity, it is useless throw it and now it is being accepted! By the people whom we think [indistinct]."

That is their surprise. Here people are gradually appreciating higher subjects. Just like yesterday the lawyer came he was very much appreciative.

[break] ...an elder gentleman came here and he said, "Swamiji it is a great fortune that you have come to us." [indistinct] in Los Angeles. They will appreciate very well they will make comparisons... That's all right children... That side also one signboard?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [end]