Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.7.2–4 – May 11, 1972, Honolulu

Prabhupada: [Srila Prabhupada leads chanting of verses and devotees repeat]

Then next.

Repeat. Try to pronounce. One by one. No, no, one word after. They can practice.

[Pradyumna now chants one word at a time, then the line, then whole verse, etc., with other devotees repeating. Prabhupada prompts and assists as devotees struggle.]

Pradyumna:

Prabhupada: Yogarddhim apur ubhayim. Yogarddhim: here is the speciality of devotees. Yat-pada-pahkaja-paraga-pavitra-deha: one who is engaged in the service of the lotus feet of the Lord, their body becomes so pure that all the perfection of yoga automatically comes there. Yogarddhim apur ubhayim. Not only for the next life; this life also. They are not to be considered as poor and hungry. No. Everything is there, ubhayim. But how?

Yat-pada-pahkaja-paraga-pavitra-deha. The pahkaja, the lotus flower, there is saffron dust. So one who takes shelter of the lotus flower, lotus feet of the Lord, that saffron naturally mixes with this body, so immediately he becomes sanctified. Yogarddhim means "sanctified body." Yoga, so anima, first anima, to make this body light. So practically there is no influence of the body. Just like a dead man becomes heavy. Do you know that? You weigh a living man, and the same man, when he is dead, he becomes heavy. Have you got this experience?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Even when they are sleeping? A sleeping cat.

Prabhupada: Yes. So the more you become spiritualized, so the material heaviness is diminished. Yat-pada-pahkaja-paraga-pavitra-deha. Now read the translation.

Pradyumna: "The great sage Atri prayed for offspring, and the Lord, being satisfied with him, promised to incarnate as Atri's son, Dattatreya [Datta, the son of Atri]. And by the grace of the lotus feet of the Lord, many Yadus, Haihayas, etc., became so purified that they obtained both material and spiritual blessings."

Prabhupada: Go on.

Pradyumna: Purport: "Transcendental relations between the Personality of Godhead and the living entities are eternally established in five different affectionate humors, which are known as santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. The sage Atri was related with the Lord in the affectionate vatsalya humor, and therefore, as a result of his devotional perfection, he was inclined to have the Personality of Godhead as his son. The Lord accepted his prayer, and He gave Himself as the son of Atreya."

Prabhupada: Who can be equal to Him? He wanted, "I want son like You." So where is another person like Him? So He said, "I shall become. I am your son."

Pradyumna: "Such a relation of son-hood between the Lord and His pure devotees can be cited in many instances. And because the Lord is unlimited, He has an unlimited number of father-devotees. Factually, the Lord is the father of all living entities, but out of transcendental affection and love between the Lord and His devotees, the Lord takes more pleasure in becoming the son of a devotee than in becoming one's father. The father actually serves the son, whereas the son only demands all sorts of services from the father. Therefore a pure devotee..."

Prabhupada: This philosophy is only in Vaisnava philosophy: to accept God as son. In other religions, they accept God as father; but here is a philosophy they accept God as son. Because to accept God as son means to give Him more service. Son takes service from the father: "Give us our daily bread." But the father gives the son daily bread. That is more valuable. If I take from you something, that is not very good; if I give you something, that is good. So to become father of God means to give everything. Even the state, even his money, his bank balance, everything. That is the idea. And to become son of God means to take everything. Hmm. Then?

Pradyumna: "The father actually serves the son, whereas the son only demands all sorts of services from the father. Therefore a pure devotee who is always inclined to serve the Lord wants Him as the son, and not as the father. The Lord also accepts such service from the devotee, and thus the devotee becomes more than the Lord. The impersonalists desire to become one with the Supreme, but the devotee becomes more than the Lord, surpassing the desire of the greatest monist. Parents and other relatives of the Lord achieve all mystical opulences automatically because of their intimate relationship with the Lord. Such opulences include all details of material enjoyment, salvation and mystic powers. Therefore the devotee of the Lord does not seek them separately, wasting his valuable time in life. The valuable time of one's life must therefore be fully engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. Then other desirable achievements are automatically gained. But even after obtaining such achievements, one should be on guard against the pitfall of offenses at the feet of the devotees. The vivid example is Haihaya, who achieved all such perfection in devotional service but, because of his offense at the feet of a devotee, was killed by Lord Parasurama. The Lord became the son of the great sage Atri and became known as Dattatreya."

Prabhupada: Datta means "given," and Atreya Rsi. So discuss any points.

Pradyumna: Gaurasundara is here.

Prabhupada: Na te... So, you want to become father of Krsna? Hm.

Gaurasundara: The servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the father.

Prabhupada: So one devotee, he becomes father of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and any devotee who is attached to the lotus feet of the Lord, all kinds of success are engaged in his service. Bilvamahgala Thakura said, bhaktis tvayi sthiratara bhagavan yadi syad: "If my devotion becomes fixed-up unto You, then it is not very difficult thing to see You." Daivena naḥ...

Divya-kisora-mūrtiḥ. You can see. And muktiḥ mukulitanjali sevate 'sman. So one who has got bhakti, for him there is no problem for mukti, because mukti is always at her service. And dharma-artha-kama: and the material opulence to become religious or economically rich, dharma-artha-kama samaya-pratiksaḥ, they are simply waiting. So, what news?

Devotee: I have to take Pradyumna to the dentist.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee: I have to take Pradyumna to the dentist.

Pradyumna: For a stitch. Stitches must be taken out; it will just take a minute.

Prabhupada: All right.

Devotee: What's the time now?

Syamasundara: And I'm going in with him to get the airline tickets.

Prabhupada: Post all the letters.

Syamasundara: Yes. I will get that card from the immigration office.

Prabhupada: Immigration card? For mine?

Syamasundara: And your address.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Syamasundara: I may need your passport to…, you know, that letter. They like that letter, but they may want to verify the signature. I don't know. Just in case, I should take it, put that in you [indistinct] Nanda-kumada, that white bag.

Prabhupada: You can get it.

Syamasundara: Where is it?

Prabhupada: [indistinct] [devotees talking about location of bag] So what is today's program?

Gaurasundara: The same. You said you'd like to have the meeting today outside, on the grass under those trees. So we are considering that. Do you want to go ahead?

Prabhupada: No. There may be rain; it may be wet.

Gaurasundara: All right. You want it inside.

Prabhupada: What do you think?

Gaurasundara: It's been sunny.

Prabhupada: If it is sunny, then outside is nice. If it is cloudy, then it is not.

Gaurasundara: It's just on this side around; on the other side it wasn't raining.

Prabhupada: Well other side or inside; if it is sunny then outside is nice. If it is not, then inside.

Gaurasundara: Yes. We can do.

Syamasundara: Is there a speaker outside, and a microphone?

Gaurasundara: Well, we can get an extension cord and put it out there.

Govinda dasi: [indistinct] People, as they are walking to classes, they shall [indistinct] drawn. [break]

Prabhupada: ... And he wanted to give him some benediction. So Duryodhana said, "I request you to become guest of my cousin-brothers after Draupadi has finished his [her] meals." [laughs] This intrigue and rivalry, they are always. Even five thousand years ago, such great personalities. Eh?

[big crashing noise, dropping something]

Babhara milaha mūrkhaya[?].

Govinda dasi: [laughs] I don't remember that one.

Prabhupada: In our Indian family, if the want for puris and a little vegetable, it will be prepared in five minutes. Five minutes, immediately. My brother's wife, very nice wife, I saw, whenever I wanted some tiffin like that, within five minutes: immediately. They were so quick and knew the art how to do it. Gas stove is there; it doesn't take much time.

Syamasundara: Electric is a little...

Prabhupada: Electric is no use-rascal. You cannot know what is the temperature. Gas you can control.

Syamasundara: Would there be a place to Xerox some pages?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: So you can keep this bag the same place?

Syamasundara: Might have to take this flowerpot [indistinct] out of here.

Prabhupada: So there is no other alternative to save your country than this Krsna consciousness. Are you convinced of this fact or not? Yesterday, when I saw the students, it is such a rich country, and they are all urchins. What responsible work they can do? Don't be sorry. I sometimes see that our students are so irresponsible that their cloth is drying for three years. They have no sense that "The cloth is now dry; let us take it." Anyway, it becomes habit, irresponsible. That is natural when one has got money. [indistinct]

Gaurasundara: [to another devotee] These things are already broken, [indistinct].

Prabhupada: So these are signs of fall down. This American nation, if their young men are becoming so irresponsible, careless, then what is the future? Their father and grandfathers built up this American state so nicely by their labor, hard labor, and these boys will spoil it. Now to speak the truth, all the students who have come to me, they are spoiled; simply saved by Krsna consciousness. Do you agree to that?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: So if you actually want to do something for your country, this is the only, only means you can save your country. Such a great nation, they are neglecting, and this rascal Nixon, he is engaged in Vietnam. He does not see what is happening in his own country. Such a rascal he is. Simply for self-aggrandizement. And anybody stands for presidency, he'll be killed. Any good man that stands for presidency, he'll be killed by Nixon and company. It is very sinister, this Nixon. I am very doubtful that he has killed all these Kennedys. These big, big men, Kennedys, are killed, but no information was given what was the matter, how he was killed. There was no inquiry.

Gaurasundara: Yes. There was inquiry.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Gaurasundara: But not very… It took a long time, years, five, six years after President Kennedy. They made a law that the report could not be released for, I think, seven years. [break]

Prabhupada: My point of view that if America becomes actually sane man, then the world will be happy. Because they are after America. America, in so many ways they are helping other undeveloped countries also, with foodstuff, with money, with assistance. That's very nice. And still in America there is so much vacant land. You can produce huge quantities. This is their bad politics. Why they do not allow the congested countries like China, India come here and be engaged in agriculture? By God's arrangement there is no scarcity. It is by our arrangement there is defect. God can main... My Guru Maharaja used to say, "There is no scarcity; only scarcity is Krsna consciousness."

So now those who are senior students, they should extensively tour, parivrajakacarya. Grhinam dina-cetasam.

Mahad, those who are great personalities, they should... They travel, mahad-vicalanam. Vicalanam means traveling, touring. Why? Grhinam dina-cetasam. The householders, dina-cetasam… In the beginning I was thinking, "Why they have been called dina?" Dina-cetasam means poor-minded, dina; or crippled, cripple-minded. Actually, I see all the householders in Western countries, they are cripple-minded. Just like animal they are living. There is no high thought: what is next life, what is God. There is nothing of the sort. Simply bodily. That is also an illusion. What is the pleasure I do not find by fighting, box-fighting, and this baseball. All jumping in the... What is that? It may be pleasing to some others, but the man who is doing, looking for some money or for some reputation, he is risking everything, his life also. Is it not? This box-fighting, one is risking his life simply for some reputation and some money. So grhinam dina-cetasam: cripple-minded. They do not know how to live actually comfortable life. They do not know. How to become happy, they do not know. Simply like monkey they are jumping, and they are happy like the child [indistinct]. Monkeys, you know monkey's business? Jumping from this branch to another branch. That is their sporting. Naked, having three dozen women behind him. You know?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: You have seen monkeys?

Gaurasundara: In zoos.

Prabhupada: They have got a band of female monkeys. And therefore it is sometimes chastised, "You are a monkey." No sense. Band of females means there is his daughters also, sons also, and everything-family, mixed family-but he has no distinction between mother, brother. Monkeys and hogs and dogs, and human beings also are becoming. No discrimination. Now they are writing philosophy, "What is the wrong there if one has sex with his daughter?" Do you know that?

Gaurasundara: No.

Prabhupada: In India some Congress leader, he has written. And we are doubtful that the rascal Jawaharlal Nehru, he was keeping his daughter. He was keeping his sister, everyone knows. Such rascals; these are rascals. And his daughter, even his husband with her, he won't allow his daughter to go to husband. And the husband died. He was such a... Horrible. And he was the head of India, like that. Now his daughter is head of the whole nation. You see? Banerjee[?], first-class prostitute. He was keeping his daughter with him, and the daughter was not satisfied, and he was implicated with his secretary, and he was drawing any amount of money just to satisfy the senses of him. This is the history of that family. And Jawaharlal's father had one dozen prostitutes. Whatever he was earning, he was get... In those days, five hundred rupees per day he was earning. In those days five hundred rupees means at least ten times of the present value. Five hundred rupees means five thousand, daily. So in those days five hundred rupees was…, he was royal king, and his money... His another hobby was that he would invite some big man with his wife, and he would corrupt his wife. That was his business. Even the Governor, and he will invite and… [laughs] Yes. Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru.

So these people are leaders, these rascals, rogues, thieves, debauchers, and they are supporting their debauchery by philosophy. Jawaharlal Nehru paid one Dr. Mukherjee, Radha-Damodara[?] Mukherjee, gave him a seat in the parliament and paid him money and induced him to write a book in support of cow slaughter. So a paid rogue, he search out some support from this sastra and that sastra, big book, that cow slaughter was done in India formerly, so there is no wrong. This was his propaganda. Duḥkha lage hahs pai We simply see, we could not do anything. What we shall do? Of course, these things will go on. Actually we can do something. Let us try to spread this; this will counteract all evil things. But sometimes we see that these rogues and rascals, just like this Stalin, he was the greatest criminal in the history of human society. Greatest criminal.

Govinda dasi: Stalin?

Prabhupada: Stalin, and he was Russian leader. Lenin, Lenin's very face is demonic. You have seen Lenin's face?

Govinda dasi: Only [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Satanic, satanic face. And he was a Satan. What is that, his face?

Syamasundara: He looks like the devil.

Prabhupada: Devil, yes. Devilish. So on behalf of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is our duty to save these living entities who are parts and parcel of Krsna from misguided illusion by the influence of maya. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. We should be sorry for their plight. So we shall remain strong in our spiritual consciousness [indistinct]. Prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama , Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Go on and do that. Of course… So are they understanding our philosophy?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: And another batch of rascals from India, Swami Cinmayananda and company. [laughs] They are also coming and misleading scholars. They should have given their spiritual, except distribute in the right manner. They are also rogues, and they are... Actually, outside India everyone is. Everyone is convinced that India has got some sort of spiritual. Everyone admits, that's a fact. But these rascals they come, they do not know anything, beginning from Vivekananda, and they come there, and they are criticized. Perhaps for the first time, I am giving the real Indian spiritual culture. I am not proud, but actually this is the fact. All rascals, they are giving some bogus things, simply bogus things. Did you attend Cinmayananda's lecture here?

Gaurasundara: No, I...

Prabhupada: Those who attended, did you hear from them?

Gaurasundara: Not much. I wasn't very interested until after you wrote us that we should have gone.

Prabhupada: Talks all nonsense-big, big speech. How to manufacture all this nonsense, [laughs] speaking. That is their credit. They go on talking nonsense for hours. [devotees talking in background]

Govinda dasi: One girl who went and [indistinct] it was incoherent; it didn't make any sense..., couldn't follow it. Just didn't make any sense.

Prabhupada: How it can make sense? They do not know what is sense.

[break] ...how you watch it. Humans put out so many chemicals, but they are not working.

Syamasundara: This chemical, DNA...

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is not working.

Syamasundara: No, it doesn't work on its own, but it…, they have found that it..., a memory pattern can be impressed in it, so that as a chemical it can remember. If it is injected into a...

Prabhupada: These also nonsense theories; otherwise, if you have found out that DNA chemical, then you put that DNA chemical in a dead man's brain. These are all nonsense.

Syamasundara: Yes. They… I tried some of that chemical. When you take it into your body, it increases your power of memory tremendously for a short time; then you forget again when it wears away.

Prabhupada: But that is because you are present, you can.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: But when you are absent, it will not act.

Syamasundara: Hm.

Govinda dasi: Are we responsible for the millions of little germs and living entities in our body?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: Are we responsible for them? Just like if the fly is in our house, we are responsible for it?

Prabhupada: No.

Govinda dasi: We are not responsible?

Prabhupada: Prakrti, in order to give you facility, just like... Departmental health is working. He has been given somebody assistant to help him. So by nature these things are arranged. You wanted a body like this-nature has supplied it under the direction of prakrti. Krsna is sitting within you; He knows what you want and He gives you the facility, "Take it." And He orders nature, or His energy. That's all.

Syamasundara: It is like in the blood. They say that each red cell, each red corpuscle, is a little living entity, and in a healthy body the red corpuscles will attack the white corpuscles and destroy them. So each corpuscle is living in itself, as a living entity. So actually...

Prabhupada: That is going on actually. Some germs are growing, and another bird is coming, eating and maintaining nature's...

Syamasundara: So actually our body is not a lump of dead matter; it is filled with millions of living entities.

Prabhupada: No matter is vacant without living entities. Therefore I protest, "How the moon planet can be without living entities?" That is my protest.

Syamasundara: So even in a dead body there are millions of red corpuscles that are still there.

Prabhupada: Yes. Millions of living entities. Even a dead body can... What the moon planet has done that there is no living entities? This is bogus; therefore it is against nature.

Syamasundara: There is some kind of consciousness, or electricity, which is organizing the whole arrangement of living entities in the body?

Prabhupada: Yes, the Supreme Consciousness, Krsna, as Paramatma. He is arranging everything through the material energy. And why Krsna should be absent in the moon planet, although the body is there? If this dead body contains so many living entities, even moon is a dead body, and why there shall not be living entities?

Syamasundara: Hm. We have no experience of anything void of living entities.

Prabhupada: No. Sarva-ga: everywhere there is living entities.

Syamasundara: Even in the South Pole.

Prabhupada: Everywhere. Living entities' name is sarva-ga. Sarva-ga means it lives everywhere; or it can go everywhere.

Syamasundara: Some scientists say that the body, all of the organisms in the body are organized by electricity, or magnetism.

Prabhupada: That is their nonsense. Electricity, we don't find electricity is working automatically, unless there is electric engineer.

Syamasundara: They take little pins like this, and they can measure the electricity in different parts of the body, and they say that this...

Prabhupada: But as soon as you say electricity, either you are defining wrongly... If you say electricity, then I will say so far we have got experience, electricity is produced by electric engineer.

Syamasundara: For instance, they say to move my hand like this, an electronic impulse travels in the nerves and makes the hand move. It has a very tiny amount of electricity.

Prabhupada: No, that is nonsense. I want to move it, therefore it moves.

Syamasundara: But do I use electricity to make the impulse?

Prabhupada: No. There is arrangement. There is an arrangement. And if the arrangement is taken away, then even I will, it is paralyzed; I cannot do it.

Syamasundara: It's a mechanical arrangement.

Prabhupada: Yes. There is full arrangement.

Syamasundara: They take what they call little electrodes, and they poke in different parts of the head...

Prabhupada: You can explain in different ways. That is material. But if the arrangement is wrong, then I cannot utilize it. Just like you are running on a car-the arrangement is there. If the arrangement goes wrong, you cannot drive it. That's all.

Syamasundara: Yes. The basic arrangement of a car also is electricity. Beginning with the battery, the car starts, and if the electronic impulses are there, the other parts run. So I was wondering if consciousness produces electricity in the body. Is that what makes...?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: The car has to have a driver to start it.

Syamasundara: Yes. The electricity is not turned on until a driver does it.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Srila Prabhupada, I heard of one instance where the scientists were trying to... They analyzed the seawater completely, every chemical in it, and then they made a similar exact combination of chemicals and put one fish, and asked him to live there. But the fish would die. Every time the fish would die, and they had all the chemicals analyzed, and they would try it again and again. Finally they took one drop of seawater, natural seawater, and the fish lived. Because they couldn't really analyze everything. They thought they were analyzing it, but they couldn't really analyze it.

Syamasundara: They added one drop to the chemicals?

Govinda dasi: Yeah, one drop of natural, real seawater, and then the fish was able to survive. But until then he wasn't able to survive. So their analysis is not very impressive. [pause]

Syamasundara: I never though of it that way before, that this body is composed of millions and millions of those little living entities. [laughs]

Prabhupada: So this picture I can take with me?

Govinda dasi: Oh, yes. Certainly you can have it. I'd love for you to take it.

Prabhupada: In my room there is no picture of Gaura-Nitai.

Syamasundara: Oh. So we can have it framed.

Prabhupada: We can frame there.

Govinda dasi: If you like, we can frame it here, but it would be very heavy to carry. Too heavy. It's very light.

Prabhupada: No.

Govinda dasi: We've had this painting on the altar for about a year and a half or so, you know, offering aratika, until the Deities were installed.

Prabhupada: [speaking verses]

So, you can record this.

Gaurasundara: You have to sing... I'll put it on a faster speed to make it. One thing, I'll get the other microphone and make it stereo.

Govinda dasi: They look very radiant now.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Govinda dasi: They look very radiant now that They're in your room.

Prabhupada: Hmm. [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: I think They have become more radiant since they came in here to this place.

Prabhupada: The dancing position, very nice.

Govinda dasi: Someone said that one time They were traveling together on the road to go somewhere, Gaura-Nitia. They were traveling on the road together.

Prabhupada: Yes. This is Mayapur, exactly the same road. Two-sided, yes.

Devotee: Yes, it looks like; it looks exactly.

Prabhupada: Mayapur is exactly like this.

Govinda dasi: Oh, very flat.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Those two cows in the background.

Prabhupada: You have seen the pictures?

Govinda dasi: Yes.

Prabhupada: Bring that. This is the road.

Govinda dasi: The very road that Lord Caitanya traveled?

Syamasundara: It looks like that.

Prabhupada: [softly singing] parama karuna, pahū dui-jana...

Syamasundara: It looks like that...

Prabhupada: Here it is. Two sides: the one side our house is photographed; no other side He was. Other side you can see?

Govinda dasi: Yes, I see it is very flat in the background, very flat.

Prabhupada: Yes. Here is the road, and this is one side, this is one side.

Govinda dasi: Lord Caitanya traveled on this very same road?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: I'd like to have some dirt from there.

Syamasundara: Didn't Bhaktisiddhanta build it up?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Syamasundara: He, er, elevated it? Repaired it? From floods?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Did you build this house?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Oh, Gaurasundara asked me did…, was this house was built by you. I didn't know.

Prabhupada: The other…, in front of other house also.

Govinda dasi: Oh. It's very nice.

Prabhupada: So I shall…?

Syamasundara: Yes. I want to put on a fresh tape, so we can do it on stereo.

Prabhupada: [Prabhupada hums] So you can repeat by hearing me?

Syamasundara: Bhajo bhajo bhai, gaura nitai... I think I'd have to get the book.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Syamasundara: Do you have the book in there?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: We have the [indistinct] song book? [karatals begin] [break] [end]