Evening Darśana – February 19, 1977, Māyāpur

'Why not in the fire?' If there is life in water, why not in the fire?

Prabhupada: How do they speak there is no soul? What is the reason?

Acyutananda: Their reason is they cannot see the soul.

Prabhupada: Then they have no intelligence. Mūḍha.

Acyutananda: When we dig a hole here and there's water, within a few weeks there's fish and frogs. They say that is...

Prabhupada: Jalaja. First jalaja nava-laksani. Jalaja nava-laksani [Padma Purana]. Not only one variety, but nine lakhs of varieties they come out from the water.

Acyutananda: But where do they come? They're in the water, latent in the water.

Prabhupada: There are life. Sarva-ga. Therefore we say that "Why not in the fire?" If there is life in water, why not in the fire? You cannot see. You have no eyes. There is life, and Krsna says, nainam dahati pavakaḥ [Bg 2.23]. Fire does not burn the living being, so why they will be not in fire? And Krsna said, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham [Bg 4.1]. He entered the sun planet.

Acyutananda: So nothing material can divide the soul, but spiritual, when it enters the spiritual world, then it is dividing.

Prabhupada: No, there is no question of dividing

Acyutananda: Mayavadi.

Prabhupada: Sanatana. That is Mayavada. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ jiva-loke sanatanaḥ [Bg 15.7]. Sanatana means eternally they are divided. And Krsna says further in the Second Chapter that...

Hari-sauri: Na tv evaham jatu nasam [Bg 2.12].

Prabhupada: Yes. "You, Me and all these kings, they were existing-the individual. You, Me and... They're existing now, and they'll continue to exist." So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as amsa, amsi, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Krsna's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Mayavada philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Krsna is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Krsna. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swamiji" or somebody. It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this screw [machine], it has no value. But when you want to add to it-you go to purchase that screw-it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw.

So our position is like that.

As soon as he separated from Krsna to become independent, that is maya. He has..., loses all value, spiritual value. And in connection with maya, it appears in different forms. And, the example is given, as the moon reflected in the water, and when the water is agitated, it is sometimes round, sometimes straight, sometimes broken, sometimes..., like that. So we are eternal spirit soul. As soon as we come in contact with maya, by agitation of the mind we assume different forms of life-and suffer. Hana mayara dasa kari' nana abhilasa. [Prarthana Song 6, Srila Narottama Dasa Thakura]

And that abhilasa is the agitation. The same example, that, is given. Moon is sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes broken, sometimes... It is nothing. It is neither broken, neither round, nor... It is. It is as it is. But on account of agitation of the material body, it appears sometimes demigod, sometimes man, sometimes hog, sometimes cat-change, change of the body, 8,400,000 different change.

[aside:] You can keep it there. All right.

We have to stop this change, and that is the mission of human life: no more cat, no more dog, no more demigod, but eternally servitor of Krsna as cowherd boys and gopis, or whatever you like. As trees, as calves, as cows, as Yamuna water, as Vrndavana-bhūmi-everything spiritual. Enjoy. Somebody's enjoying spiritual happiness by becoming Yamuna water. Somebody's enjoying as flower of Vrndavana, somebody as calf, somebody as cow, somebody as father, as mother, as friend, as conjugal friend, gopis-all concentrated in Krsna. That is Vrndavana. Center is Krsna. Yasoda-nandana... What is that? Braja-jana-ranjana... Huh?

Hari-sauri: Gokula-ranjana...

Prabhupada: Yamuna-tira-bana-cari. Radha-madhava kunja-bihari, yamuna-tira-bana-cari. [Gitavali Song 4, by Bhaktivinoda Thakura] So Yamuna is spiritual. Yamuna-tira is spiritual. The varieties, the Mayavadi cannot understand. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They want varieties, but don't accept spiritual variety. Therefore again material life. No other alternative. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tataḥ patanti. Again material varieties, philanthropic work, political work, this work, that work. First of all they give up-brahma satyam jagan mithya, the jagan mithya. And again they come out to open school. Why you come here again? Aruhya krcchrena param..., patanty adhaḥ. Why? Anadrta-yusmad-ahghrayaḥ. They could not capture the spiritual varieties. Anadrta. As soon as there is spiritual varieties, they think it is maya. That is Mayavada. There is no maya. Spiritual variety, there is no maya. Variety is the mother of enjoyment.

[others enter-Bengali with guests]

[Transl. Please come. Have our Dasagupta work hard in the translation.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yes, he has done quite a few.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. He is very talented person. That service is suitable for him. Besides that, he is an old man, so let him sit down and do that work.] Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya. [Bg 18.46] [Transl. Whatever capacity one has got if he simply uses it for the service of the Supreme Lord, his life will be successful.]

Indian man: Operation Krsna consciousness and destination Vaikuntha.

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. Whatever qualification one may have…that's what I was just explaining. Someone has become a cow, or a calf, or a flower, or water, or land, or mother, father, friend, anything, you simply engage in the service of Krsna. That is Vrndavana. Vrndavana means variety.] Multi-varieties, all spiritual. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis tabhir ya eva nija-rūpataya kalabhiḥ... [Bs 5.37]. [Transl. All are expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are not ordinary.]

There is nothing material. Everything ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis tabhir ya eva nija-rūpataya kalabhiḥ. Just like Brahma took away-again He expanded. For one year nobody could understand that it is all expansion of Krsna. Krsna has become calf, Krsna has become cow, Krsna has become a cowherd boy-everything. Then Brahma saw, "Oh, I have done mistake." He can immediately expand into many thousands forms. Advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rūpam adyam purana-purusam... [Bs 5.33]. Hmm. What is that clipping? Go on reading.

Satsvarūpa: A number of clippings. This is a headline, that a new president, Carter, pardons draft evaders.

Prabhupada: Huh? Carter?

Satsvarūpa: Previously there were so many young men in America who evaded the draft during the Vietnam war, and the government was looking for them. But now the new president is saying, "Let us forget the past. I forgive all these draft evaders. Let them come out and be good citizens."

Acyutananda: Because if they have another war, nobody will go and fight that war again. They will all leave America. So they want America to be very good now, so that everyone will love America and come back. Because if there's another war nobody will join the army. They'll just leave.

Prabhupada: So why there is war? They cannot stop war?

Acyutananda: They start wars. [Prabhupada chuckles] And in the chaos they make profit.

Prabhupada: That means there are many like you.

Acyutananda: Yes. [Prabhupada chuckling] They're all in Canada, Mexico.

Prabhupada: And Canada give them good shelter.

Acyutananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: People is proud to give American shelter. Is it not?

Acyutananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: What other?

Satsvarūpa: This is an article... This is not very new. I don't know where all these articles came from, but it's about our movement in Chicago. It says, "The path of Krsna is like a sharpened razor. Whether selling incense or salvation, this band refuses to split hairs." [laughter] "Uncompromising," it describes us.

Prabhupada: That is Kali's sign. Lavanyam kesa-dharanam [SB 12.2.6]. Five thousand years ago it was predicted, and now it is happening. Just see. This is sastra. Lavanyam kesa-dharanam. "Younger generation will think by keeping long hair they have become beautiful." It is mentioned in Bhagavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage means sex life." As soon as there is disturbance in rati, it is divorce.

Satsvarūpa: This is very old. This is two years old. "The deep roots of India's food plight."

Prabhupada: That's not... New...

Acyutananda: I think India has the whole world fooled, thinking that they have no food, so that they can get aid. Actually there is... Everywhere I go, there's more than enough food. Even if people don't give money, they give food. And the hippies come to India because they get food. There's so much food in India. Everyone will feed you, all the people.

Prabhupada: Yes. We are feeding. We want to feed more.

Acyutananda: But they make propaganda that they're starving to the whole world, that "We're starving nation," and they get aid. Powdered milk... Powdered milk is sold, though. Government takes that, and they sell it.

Prabhupada: All right, let us preach. That is our only business. Kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ . [Transl. After "Bhagavanera Katha" what others books are being printed?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Bhagavad Darsana is coming out.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. Bhagavad Darsana is a Magazine. What about books?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Book, "Bhakti Katha" will be published. That's a collection of articles you wrote in Gauḍiya Patrika in 1951.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Are you editing those? No?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. No, they are as it is.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Same, as it is.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I only added some sub-titles in that. Is that all right?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are good.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Next coming up is a song book. In that, as you said, a chapter entitled "Sadhu-sahga" will be included. There is an article called "Sadhu-sahga" written by Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakura in Gauḍiya Patrika. Should we include that?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Eh? Include.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Along with that a few chapters from "The Necter Of Devotion" regarding this topics have been added in the song book with Bengali translation.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Very good.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Then Mr. Dasagupta's "Siksastakam" will be published. He has translated himself. For now these books we are publishing.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mr. Mitra was here with his family? He did a portion of Bhagavad-gita. Did you see him?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Was there anybody by the name Mr. Mitra?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Name. I forgot his full name.]

Indian guest: [Transl. When you went to abroad, Tatpara was here.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Yes.]

Hari-sauri: Mitra, the Journalist.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Yes.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Prasuna Mitra?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Prasuna.]

Subhaga: [Transl. When I was here I saw him last in Calcutta. He said he will go to Vrndavana or Delhi.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Can you find him out?]

Subhaga: [Transl. I will try.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That person was very qualified.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Yes.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. You have his address?]

Subhaga: [Transl. He was here with his wife and a child.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What was the trouble here? Why did he leave? He did not ask me anything.] If you can find out, bring him some way or other. He is very qualified man, but he's misguided. I think he did not like to live separate from his wife. That is his demands, maybe.

Subhaga: [Transl. Prabhupada, you brought him from States.]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Subhaga: [Transl. You brought him from America.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not America, Calcutta… he belongs to Bengal.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Shyambati. He used to come from America and do this work.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. He was very qualified.]

Subhaga: [Transl. He told me he would write me from Vrndavana. But so far I haven't received any letter from him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Somehow or other bring him back. I will surely keep him here under control.] Very qualified man.

Pradyumna: Yes. English, Hindi, Bengali...

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. And he wanted to live with me. So what happened to him?

Subhaga: [Transl. Jayapataka Maharaja might know something. He can tell if we ask.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Anyhow, If you can bring him back somehow or other, whatever he wants, we can give him and he can live peacefully. Now we want some Bengali literatures. Bengali, Hindi.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Prabhupada, see this is his writing.]

Prabhupada: Hmm. Hmm.

Subhaga: [Transl. This writing. I checked thoroughly. It's vey nice. Wonderful writing.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He has command over language.]

Subhaga: [Transl. He has command over language.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Just by seeing this it is understood that…]

Subhaga: [Transl. He has got command.]

Prabhupada: …He has got command on the right. [Transl. Okay, You do afresh.]

Subhaga: Is this the old edition

Pradyumna: No. It's new edition.

Bhakti-caru: It's an old edition

Pradyumna: It's an old?

Prabhupada: You find out that man.

Subhaga: [Transl. Yes, Srila Prabhupada.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where did you see him?]

Subhaga: [Transl. In Calcutta. When Jayapataka Maharaja and I were coming here on Sunday, he arrived there to go somewhere else.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where was he?]

Subhaga: [Transl. In the temple.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He was in the Calcutta temple only?]

Subhaga: [Transl. May be just for tonight, or may be for a day or two. He wanted to go to Vrndavana or Delhi.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. When did you meet him?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Not with Ratha-yatra?]

Subhaga: [Transl. I can't remember exactly. About six months. He said "I am going to Delhi. There will be an ISKCON press in Delhi. I will stay in the guest house in Vrndavana for a few days. You write me there."I said "Yes I will suggest." One cannot see Prabhupada very often.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where to get the exact news?]

Subhaga: [Transl. From those who were in direct contact with him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You get his address.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Yes, I will.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I think he drinks wine or something.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Drinks. He lives in the States, so must be drinking whiskey etc.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why he could not stay. You can make out from his body language. Drink. He could not do that here. No tea, no drinking…]

Subhaga: [Transl. No biḍi or Cigarette.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. ... no smoking.] It became too much inconvenience. Wife is separated. This is tapasya. It cannot be accepted by ordinary person. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya begins from brahmacarya. And brahmacarya means "no," so many. No "yes." Only "no's." "Not this, not this, not this." It is very difficult. Therefore the Americans are surprised: "How our sons have accepted so many 'no's' unless there is brainwash? And this man knows some mind control, and he's controlling their mind, independence. Bas. Deprogram. Capture them." This is the... "How our sons can accept so many 'no's'? " And important items-no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication. Everything, life, is no. [laughs] Rayarama said, "It is simply 'no's.' " He left. What is their daily necessity, and all "no."

The same thing is happening now, that "How they have accepted the 'no's'? It is brainwash, mind control." Lord Zetland said, when he was offered these "no's," he said, "Impossible for us. We cannot give up this." And I was also thinking in the beginning, that "As soon as I propose this 'no's,' they will say, 'Go home.' [laughs] No more preaching." And it is Krsna's desire, they accepted so many 'no's.' I was not hopeful that these American young boys or gentlemen will accept these 'no's,' because I heardLord Zetland said, "It is impossible." If they go to a..., one goes to a restaurant, he must find out one illicit woman. Is it not? It is not the practice, that they should go to a restaurant with one girl? Otherwise he's vagabond. [Transl. Just to play around. You didn't tally these things?]

Subhaga: [Transl. Yes it is.]

Prabhupada: He was ten years in London. [Transl. Yes. He knows.] He has good experience in villages.

[aside:] Hare Krsna. [Transl. How are you?] Sit down. Sit down.

[long pause]

Golam Mistry: [Transl. Guru Maharaja, Up to last year I have built your gate and did other works. Then for what reason this poor man has been deprived from your lotus feet I could not understand. So that I may again get a place at your lotus feet kindly do something about it.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Tell me what is the matter.]

Subhaga: [Transl. That means you used to perform different works here.]

Golam Mistry: [Transl. I am Golam Mistry, I constructed your gates, boundaries in this same building you live. Ground and first floor. Then for some reason me and my wife were removed from the work. Therefore I request you to again give us a chance at your lotus feet…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I have to know the reason for which you were deprived. Those who are supervising you, they have to be asked what happened? I don't know anything.]

Golam Mistry: [Transl. That's what I am requesting at your lotus feet. You please find it out and make some arrangement so that I can again get a place at your lotus feet.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Let Jayapataka come and we will discuss in front of him. We have no discrimination like Hindu, Muslim, Christian. We love everybody.]

Golam Mistry: [Transl. Therefore I came at your feet.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Did you know this fact?]

Golam Mistry: [Transl. Yes. According to my realization we all are overwhelmed by your impartial behavior. In your society there is no consideration of caste, religion…]

[break]

Prabhupada: "...that "You cannot become happy without Me. Therefore I advise you, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg 18.66], aham tvam sarva-pa... I'll give you..."

[break] Krsna yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. [Vaisnava Poet Dvija Hari Dasa] Therefore only intelligent person is he who is Krsna conscious. All fools. Mūḍhaḥ nabhijanati mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg 7.13]. [Transl. Your people are all experienced. They should work very nicely, otherwise you remove them. Whatever hard work they will do they will get money. Be satisfied with that. If you want more you won't get it. You won't get. On the contrary you will end up commiting a crime. And you get no profit.]

[Transl. Those who do not know they beat the husk with the husking machine. What will you get by beating the husk? Will you get any rice paddy? Simply useless hard labor. The rice paddy which has no rice in it, only husk, will you get rice by beating it? Will you?]

Golam Mistry: [Transl. No.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then it's a useless labor only and nothing else. Those who are thinking that by illegal means they will change their luck, they are doing like that, simply beating the husk.]

[break] Dainika or Daily, what is that?

Subhaga: [Transl. "Nadiya Prakasa." [Newspaper.]]

Prabhupada: If he, that time, one paisa, [laughs] if he could collect two annas, oh, he [Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.] would encourage him like anything.

Indian man: Eight paisa. Two annas, eight paisa.

Prabhupada: Former paisa, when sixty-four paisa was one rupee. Now hundred n.p. equal to one. The purchasing power of money was big. Now thirty percent has gone up, but people's income has not gone up so much. Thirty percent, thirty times. Formerly gold was priced twenty rupees per tola. Now it is six hundred rupees. So thirty times. But people have not increased their income thirty times. My father was earning two hundred fifty to three hundred per month. So we were middle class. So now thirty times of three hundred means nine thousand. So which middle-class man has increased so much? Middle-class man now, if he's earning one thousand rupees he's considered very well-to-do. But what is that one thousand rupees? Nothing. My father had from one business, one hundred rupees, from another business sixty rupees, and we had a house rented, eighty rupees. Eighty rupees, sixty rupees and hundred rupees. How much?

Devotee: Two hundred and forty.

Prabhupada: Two hundred forty, plus something more. Utmost, three hundred. And in our house four, five guests was always present. It didn't matter. Besides that, he was inviting some Vaisnava, some sadhu. He married four daughters, and we were eating very sumptuously, daily two and half kg milk. Two annas per kg. Very nice milk. This man was coming from outside Calcutta. So we were so many children. We would stand, "Give some phao." Two half kg's milk and half kg phao. He wouldn't mind.

Indian man: Half kg, three, phao?

Prabhupada: [laughs] Because we are so many children, little, little, little. Krishna was asking for phao. That is the system in India. You purchase something from some vendor and ask little more phao. He'll give. That is included in the price. [Transl. You don't have the experience of] phao? Especially children, they'll ask, "Phao dao or give extra." They'll give gladly.

Subhaga: [Transl. Prabhupada, some guests want to see you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Come.] Ask them to come inside. [Transl. Sit down. Sit down here. Sit up here.]

Subhaga: [Transl. Come. Come inside.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Come inside. Let others come in.]

Indian guest: [Transl. Okay.]

Subhaga: [Transl. You also come inside.]

Indian guest: [Transl. I am fine here.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If you sit by the door it will block the passage.]

Subhaga: [Transl. If you sit at the door there will be inconvinence. Come little inside.]

Indian guest: [Transl. We will leave soon.] [end]