Room Conversation Visit from Dr. G. Ghosh and Dr. Gopal – October 17, 1977, Vṛndāvana

Appearance and disappearance of this body is no a very important thing

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. So what type of, I have brought a scheme that is available nowadays like there will be a health section which we will slowly develop. There will be] regular lecture about health and disease in popular language with demonstrations by charts, models, projectors and cinematography. [Transl. It will be something like this. Then there will be a Maintaining health cards for children. Every six months their height, weight... And their progressive health will be noted down. After that in that] Building a health science museum. [Transl. will be set up in which different models etc, will be displayed. So many visitors come. They will see all this and become interested and attracted. We will have a health museum called 'Health science museum' in which different models, different charts, and various parts of the body will be displayed.] for propagating health science amongst the inmates of gurukula and the public. [Transl. It will look very attractive. Then for the young gurukula boys we will have a] ...gymnasium for health. [Transl. a mini Gymnasium. Then there will be] ...simple yoga lessons for children... [Transl. and along with that Indian sports and international sports will be included.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Well, you discuss with everybody]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Pardon?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Discuss.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Discuss? With whom should I discuss? Do you approve it? If you approve, then we can go on.]

Prabhupada: Our, spiritual...

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Yes spiritual, but the body should be cared for.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Too much importance to the body...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Spirituality must be there. In our term it says 'psycho and soma'. You are developing psycho or soul consciousness and along with that the soma or body] ...should be taken care of, 'cause this is God's temple. This has to be done.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, it has to be done in a simple way.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. So if you agree then I will prepare myself accordingly and dedicate the rest of my life for developing this. You contribute something for this and I will also help with some finance. I can spend ten to fifteen thousand rupees and the rest or the three forth of the amount if you contribute then this set up will stay forever.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What will happen with ten, fifteen thousand rupees?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. That I will give personally. You give three parts and I will give one part, and I will serve for as long as I am alive.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My desire is that...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Tell me your wish.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Let there be a Clinic so that when they are sick, they can be treated. They do not feel difficulty.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You called me so I came. If you say then I will go forward, otherwise I will go back.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. With Dr. Sharma...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Discuss. Okay let me talk to Dr. Sharma. This facility is needed. It will be an interesting side for them with modern equipments. They should know these things.] Our people are steeped in ignorance about the laws of health. [Transl. That is] In the most impressionable age... [Transl. Old people cannot be taught] ...young, the most impressionable age... [Transl. They should be encouraged. Then only the country can make some progress. This is a very good center. So many people are coming, so many visitors are coming. Periodically, suppose there is some Epidemic or whenever they come, your literatures in Hindi with ISKCON placket can be distributed to them. For prevention, a card of Do's and Dont's should be given to them. That will enhance ISKCON's prestige. This will be a great service to humanity.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My brain is not functioning now.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Yes, that is true. Everything is the will of God. There is lack of nourishment.] He can have a little glucose in water?

Bhavananda: Taking glucose in juice.

Upendra: We have lunch ready. Getting ready.

Dr. Ghosh: Glucose in water.

Bhavananda: He's been taking glucose in fruit juices. He hasn't taken today very much.

Dr. Ghosh: Every hour, a sip, a sip. If he can't take at one time, let just him sip every half an hour a teaspoon. Otherwise he is very low.

Prabhupada: Teaspoonful I can take. Teaspoon I can take.

Dr. Ghosh: Teaspoon, yes.

Bhavananda: Every half an hour.

Dr. Ghosh: Every half an hour teaspoon? Every few minutes. Or four teaspoons every half an hour. Bring some. Let me see how he...

Bhakti-caru: He is going to take some food now.

Dr. Ghosh: Food?

Bhavananda: Prasadam.

Dr. Ghosh: Prasadam. Rice water or rice, a little rice, soft rice. Very good soft rice a few teaspoon.

Bhavananda: A little luci and legume.

Dr. Ghosh: Well, if he can take it, let him have.

Upendra: What about a bath? Should we give Prabhupada a bath now?

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Good puris.] Yes, certainly, he must have something.

Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

[indistinct whispering among devotees]

Prabhupada: So, let me sit up.

Bhavananda: Would you like a blanket around you, Srila Prabhupada? Hmm?

Dr. Ghosh: [indistinct]

Tamala Krsna: Urine, urine?

Dr. Ghosh: [indistinct]

Tamala Krsna: To do what? Take blood pressure?

Dr. Ghosh: [indistinct]

[indistinct backgound talking among devotees]

Bhavananda: Yes, he took. He took one at 11:15. Yes. Vitamin C and liquid vitamin. Then the next one should be... We mix the B with the C. Three times a day. Three times?

Dr. Ghosh: Three times.

Bhavananda: He should take today two more.

Dr. Ghosh: Yes.

[faint background discussion about diet, etc.]

[Transl. Try to eat a little. Try to chew and eat.] Your stomach is all right. Liver is all right. So then only what have you got to do is to eat. [Transl. Fried brinjal and puri are good to eat.]

Bhavananda: Apricot, raisin, dahi and milk.

Dr. Ghosh: And the fuit juice?

Bhavananda: Papaya. Avocado, coconut milk...

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Oh, coconut milk.]

[long indistinct background conversation about bowel action, medicines, hydrogen peroxide, etc.]

Bali-mardana: The other doctor from Ramakrishna Mission is here. Should he come in?

Tamala Krsna: Dr. Ghosh? The other doctor has come.

Dr. Ghosh: Doctor has come?

Bali-mardana: Yes, from Ramakrishna. I'll bring him in?

Dr. Ghosh: Yes, please.

Tamala Krsna: Bring another chair.

Dr. Ghosh: Dr. Gopal.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Who?]

Dr. Gopal: Dr. Gopal of Ramakrishna Mission, doctor, M.D. I have called in just to take your pressure and all the [Transl. things and we both will see you and draw out a line of treatment] for you.

Prabhupada: I saw you yesterday.

Dr. Gopal: I examined you yesterday. [indistinct describing what he is doing]

Bhavananda: There's bad cough when he takes any milk. Gives him very deep cough. [doctors talking together in background, discussing Lassix]

Tamala Krsna: The surgeon in London, he said that Lassix might be dangerous for Prabhupada.

Dr. Ghosh: He was given an enema after; bowels were constricted. [indistinct: chanting in background-doctors talking about bowel movements, Lassix and anorexia symptoms]

Dr. Gopal: Let us lay him down on his back. That's it.

Bhavananda: Is that comfortable, Srila Prabhupada?

[doctors talking-indistinct]

Dr. Gopal: [Transl. Can I see your throat please?] Say "Ah."

Prabhupada: Ahhhhh.

Dr. Gopal: [Transl. Okay. Look upwards.

[pause]

Prabhupada: Bhavananda?

Upendra: He's talking with the doctor, Srila Prabhupada. This is Upendra and Giriraja. We're just with you while they're talking with the doctor, finding out information.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Giriraja?

Giriraja: Yes?

Prabhupada: News from Bombay? [break]

Giriraja: ...activities are going on. Haridasa promised that he would, you know, maintain the collections for maintenance. So he's doing that with the help of one or two other boys. And I asked about the attendance at the morning and evening programs, and they wrote back that the attendance at the morning program is very good, mahgala-arati and Srimad-Bhagavatam. And it's fair attendance in the evening. And then the construction is going on. It's in the final stages. And then you probably know we had a meeting to discuss the plans for the opening and the management of the new guesthouse and restaurant and theater. So I think the plans are very good. Actually, last night we were discussing that the cullis pieces which go on the top of the domes, that those are ordered in, I think, brass or copper like here. But those become black very quickly. So we decided that we would try to plate them in gold. So we had also decided that we would not try to have more men donate for rooms, because we want to make sure that we have enough rooms available for outside guests that might be coming. So some of the big men who might have donated for that, I could approach them to get donations so that we could gold-plate...

[break] So we decided that we wanted to open around January, so that we could take advantage of the facilities immediately, so that the building doesn't lie vacant for two months.

Prabhupada: No, no. Subhasya sighram. [anything auspicious should be done immediately] As early as possible.

Giriraja: Yes. So the reason we selected January 8th was because many of the important devotees like Yasodanandana Swami, they're going out of India for collecting during the..., that time, so they felt that it would be easier for them to be back by January 8th.

Prabhupada: No, no. It cannot remain vacant.

[whispered comments aside]

Prabhupada: Consult with Jayatirtha. [whispered comments aside]

Hari-sauri: Jayatirtha's here.

Prabhupada: I'm asking Giriraja.

Hari-sauri: Consult with Jayatirtha.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? For the Bombay opening, is it necessary to have those South Indian brahmanas? If Yasodanandana Maharaja knows the ceremonies...

Hari-sauri: Which he does very, very well.

Prabhupada: Then why?

Hari-sauri: He does know.

Tamala Krsna: Because many of the... Gurukrpa Maharaja and others were expressing the feeling that Bombay is not like Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: In Vrndavana there are so many smarta-brahmanas, but Bombay is a very materialistic, modern, Western city. Some of our devotees have already been invited, Acyutananda and one other, for themselves opening a temple. So it was the common opinion of most of the devotees, "What is the need of hiring these fourteen, fifteen brahmanas?" The people don't care in Bombay for this.

Prabhupada: No.

Tamala Krsna: Rather, they may be more impressed to have the Western devotees doing it, and we save so much...

Prabhupada: Western brahmanas.

Hari-sauri: Western brahmanas, yes.

Giriraja: Imported. [laughter]

Prabhupada: That was my prediction. As they're importing ghee, milk, similarly, brahmana also. Go-brahmana-hitaya. That's nice proposal.

Hari-sauri: Jaya. Yasodanandana can do it very nicely. He did it very expertly in Fiji.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: And the Indians there were very, very appreciative that the Western, white brahmanas had done the installation. They were telling Vasudeva that "Now we must take instructions from these men. They know the pūja."

Prabhupada: That is good proposal.

Hari-sauri: Jaya.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? Would you like it to be opened on your Guru Maharaja's disappearance...

Prabhupada: Any... Early as possible.

Hari-sauri: Anything. Earliest possible date.

Prabhupada: That would be nice, Guru Maharaja appearance day. It is...

Tamala Krsna: It's his disappearance day.

Giriraja: The disappearance day is on December 29th, which is just the correct time when we want to open.

Prabhupada: Ah, that's nice.

Giriraja: So we could begin...

Prabhupada: We have no such difference, disappearance and appearance.

Giriraja: Except in your case. We don't want disappearance.

Prabhupada: [chuckles] Jivo va maro va. Because we are going to accept eternity, so appearance and disappearance of this body is no a very important thing. Nitya-lila, eternal life-that is our Krsna consciousness. So, the early as possible. Take as far as possible our men. We can keep some assistant, local brahmana. If we keep one or two South Indian brahmanas, they may take it that we are doing with cooperation. One or two can be kept.

Hari-sauri: Just one or two.

Tamala Krsna: South Indian brahmanas.

Prabhupada: Yes. Or local brahmanas.

Tamala Krsna: Local brahmanas might be a lot easier. Once you get these South Indian brahmanas, then they say there has to be twelve, fourteen, fifteen. But local brahmanas, one or two would come. Probably there are some devotee brahmanas that we can find.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Tamala Krsna: They won't even charge, probably. We can simply give donation to them, but they won't even demand charge. That will be best.

Hari-sauri: The South Indians probably would not agree to one or two.

Tamala Krsna: No. They'll want fourteen or fifteen.

Hari-sauri: Now they've already got the idea of taking so much money from us, they won't like it if one or two come.

Tamala Krsna: No. They won't agree to it. They'll say it's not possible.

Hari-sauri: It's better to tell them...

Prabhupada: You can get local brahmana to assist us. Perform the yajna little gorgeously, that's all. If you can distribute to the local brahmanas, important, some expensive cloth, and grains, and..., they will come. And let them cook themselves and take prasadam and do that.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Hari-sauri: I think the local brahmanas will be very pleased to be connected with the opening of such a big temple.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Tamala Krsna: That's better. Better to involve the local people. South Indian people will come, take money, and go back to South. No use.

Prabhupada: Local brahmana will be... Where is Bhavananda?

Tamala Krsna: Bhavananda? He's in... They'll check. Want to call Bhavananda? He's with Dr. Ghosh.

Prabhupada: Ha. [pause]

Bhavananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: So, what doctor says?

Bhavananda: I was just discussing with them. They've given a, a series of medicines. That one doctor, Dr. Gopal, he said that you have a chronic kidney infection, and they both, Dr. Ghosh and Dr. Gopal, say it is very serious, that if it's not treated, that it could develop into uremia, which is..., could be fatal. So he's given a whole group of medicines. However, the medicines can be combined. They say everything is functioning well, but the kidneys are not. Renial, they call it renial infection.

Tamala Krsna: Renal. Renal damage.

Bhavananda: Chronic. And Dr. Gopal, just like all of the other doctors, both Ayurvedic or allopathic, they all insist that you have to take more liquid. They said that you should measure how much you pass urine today. Say you pass 250 cc's of urine. That means that tomorrow you should take that amount plus 400 more in liquid. Each day.

Tamala Krsna: Always 400 more than the urine passed.

Bhavananda: Four hundred more than you passed urine the day before. You should take any sort of liquid-milk, juices, water, anything. He also said that you have to take rich protein foods-milk, curd, chana, Proteinex, fruits, juices...

Tamala Krsna: But milk causes mucus for Prabhupada.

Bhavananda: They say that the lungs are... Anyway...

Hari-sauri: They haven't seen the difficulty that Prabhupada has in bringing this stuff up.

Tamala Krsna: Better to avoid milk.

Bhavananda: Milk... But there has to be some protein.

Tamala Krsna: Chana seemed good. Today you had the curd. It seems to have been all right. The cheese this morning, Prabhupada. I don't notice any cough today.

Prabhupada: Cough generates later on.

Hari-sauri: Yes. It usually comes about half a day or a day later.

Tamala Krsna: Oh.

Hari-sauri: After it's been in the stomach for awhile.

Tamala Krsna: [low voice] What about all these people being in the same room? Did you ask the doctor about that? [indistinct answer and discussion]

Hari-sauri: The Proteinex is good because that is made from soya. It's not made from milk base. So that may not cause mucus.

Bhavananda: So we can try.

Tamala Krsna: Bhagatji says that this Dr. Gopal is the best doctor in Mathura district. Very, very expert doctor, he said. He seemed pretty competent.

Bhavananda: Competent and confident.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, very confident. He disagreed with Dr. Ghosh on a number of points. He did not advise Lassix tablet, this Dr. Gopal. Just like the surgeon in London also did not advise. He said that... Then he explained why, and Dr. Ghosh agreed.

Bhavananda: Also he said that you shouldn't take... What is it? Hydrogen peroxide rinse in the mouth. He said that could be very dangerous.

Tamala Krsna: He said because of the fact that your mouth is not normal. It doesn't salivate as much as someone else's. So some of the hydrogen peroxide might remain there, and then it might be swallowed. He advised a much milder mouthwash.

Bhavananda: And he gave one tablet... He said that you should only take one half tablet in the morning in place of the Lassix. It's a very, very mild dialysis for the swelling. He said it's not... He doesn't want to give any sort of... Very, very mild. He also said that your feet should be raised on two pillows or the bed, at the end of the..., the foot of the bed, should be raised on one brick on each side. That will reduce the swelling a great deal, he said. Most important though, Srila Prabhupada, is that we increase the liquid intake for flushing the kidneys, and it will give you some strength. Now your condition is so weak.

Tamala Krsna: Actually, Prabhupada, your condition has become much weaker since you stopped eating more and more. In Bombay, when you had more strength, you were eating..., at least drinking three times what you are drinking now. So if you gradually increase your drinking, your strength will come back. As long as you're passing urine, it means it's being digested all right.

Bhavananda: Everyone... All the doctors agree that your liver and digestion, spleen, is all in good working order.

Tamala Krsna: And also the blood pressure is normal. It's 130. It's very reduced, Srila Prabhupada. It's normal blood pressure now.

Bhavananda: But he said that your pulse is so weak that every 18 beats it skips a beat, misses, because you're in such weakened state.

Tamala Krsna: But he was hopeful in general.

Prabhupada: Dr. Gopal.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Is he still here, Dr. Gopal?

Bhavananda: Yes, he's still here. So, Srila Prabhupada, I think that we should... Dr. Ghosh has come all this distance, and he'll get very upset if we don't at least try this course of medicines. I think that we should try and see what happens. It was a lot of medicines, but they can be combined together in one dosage-once in the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening, so it won't be all the time having to take.

Hari-sauri: It can be drunk down with some liquid as well.

Bhavananda: Yes. You can mix it with fruit juices or...

Prabhupada: So do it.

Tamala Krsna: You want to take rest now, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. [end]