Room Conversation
With Bharadvaja

October 16, 1977, Vrndavana
Bharadvaja: I have an outline with me. An outline.
Prabhupada: You have?
Bharadvaja: Yes, I have it here. Of the ideas. Perhaps I could read some portion to you?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bharadvaja: This is a simple outline here. Theme. The theme of this exhibit is "What is life and what is the purpose of life?" So it is in four sections. The first section deals with... It's an introduction, and it deals with the basic topics: "What I am and who I am." And then we go to explain what is the embodied soul. First we show the process of creation, how the world is created.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bharadvaja: I'm just giving a very simple outline now. There's more notes on this. Then we show how the spirit soul enters the creation by Maha-Visnu. And then we show how the soul evolves up to human form of life through all the different species. Then, in the second, in the third portion, rather, we deal with the human form of life. And there's five different points: first, the place of the human form in the evolutionary cycle; and number two, human form of life as a turning point; then three, human life is meant for self-realization, not sense gratification; and four, not executing the mission of human life is the source of all problems; and five, establishment and maintenance of dharma by the avataras and the disciplic succession. And the last movement is entitled "The Perfection of Life."
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bharadvaja: The last portion of the exhibition is called "The Perfection of Life," and it is comprised of two portions, two parts. The first part describes the process of self-realization, and the second part is called the transcendence into the spiritual world, with emphasis on the reality of transcendental variegatedness and personality. That means we're actually going to try to give the viewer an experience of becoming purified. His senses are gradually becoming purified through the process of self-realization, and then we take him through the different spiritual realizations. And then the last part is Vrndavana-lila of Krsna, to show that the Lord is a perfect person and that everyone has a place in His personal service in the spiritual world. So this is the... That's the simple outline, and I have another portion here which deals a little more elaborately. I'll just read some of the things to you. So we call the introduction to the exhibition, we call it "The Overture." In this introduction there are several points. The first point is that we are not made up of... We're showing what is the body. So we're showing that the body is made up of different elements. And there's a film that shows how the man is made up of different component parts We are showing that different organs are just like different machines and mechanical systems, and that life is consciousness and that consciousness is different from and did not come from matter. So we're showing that the heart is like a pump, and lungs are like bellows, and the eyes are like cameras, and the ears are like tape recorders, and the brain is like a computer, and so on. But behind all of these machines there is the witness, there is the seer, or the soul. So he is different from all these different machines. Then we show... We take everything down to smaller and smaller particles, and we bring everything down to atomic structure, and then we show that there does not seem to be any purpose to this. So where is life? Are we just...? My life is full of purpose, so where is the life here? Can we be just molecules? Where does life begin? On this portion of the exhibit we are working with Svarupa Damodara and the Bhaktivedanta Institute to make a scientific presentation. This will involve films and dolls and other special effects to show the..., how ridiculous is the idea of material evolution, so-called evolution of matter into consciousness. So Svarupa Damodara has his own presentation that we're going to use here. We've seen some of it during the conference. Then the second exhibit will perhaps be a whole group of scientists, and these scientists are sitting in one room, but they're all from different ages. And each one of them in turn expresses that they're having so many doubts. This we will take directly from their own quotations from different biographies, and we will show that the scientists are very confused about the origin of life, that they cannot actually explain anything, and they are saying this in their own words. Many scientists have said things like this-Darwin, Einstein. We have a list of eight here, and we can use their quotes. And they express bafflement, ignorance and failure to understand life or explain the universe. Then we show how... We put man back together out of chemicals, so-called. We're going back to the original man, which... We have analyzed one man, and now we're going back from the molecular level again back to the man. And then we show how the fetus is developing. We're showing that the life and consciousness is there from the very beginning. And then there is a film that shows this, and then that shifts to that display of the changing body.
Prabhupada: Life begins from water.
Bharadvaja: Life begins from water? How is that?
Prabhupada: Just like the sea. Sea, and from within the sea an exhibition of life begins in the form of sea animals or fish or similar. Then life develops, evolves. Life... Sea does not generate life, but in the material world, life begins from water.
Bharadvaja: So we will show this.
Prabhupada: Ksine punye punar martya-lokam visanti, that from higher planets, they fall down with water, and then again, like bubbles, begins from water, life. As the water dries up, then vegetables, and then... Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa... Then moving animals and ants, reptiles. In this way, birds, beast, then four-legged animals, then uncivilized man, then civilized man with Vedic knowledge, then God realization. This is the process.
Bharadvaja: Very wonderful, Srila Prabhupada. We have this evolution in our second exhibit. We want to show that in the beginning the Lord was there, and that by His energy the universe is created and all the different elements are evolved by His glance.
Prabhupada: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.
Bharadvaja: In the second part we're also showing that the Lord, out of His infinite kindness and mercy, has created the material world so that the living entities can be corrected.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.
Bharadvaja: We also have a diorama here of Isaac Newton showing the model of the universe to his friend, and his friend says, "Oh, such a brilliant thing, such a wonderful model. Who has made this?" And he says, "Nobody. It just appeared here." And he makes his point that if such a small thing has taken so much intelligence and skill, then what to speak of the great universe that we see before us? How could it have come from nothing?
Prabhupada: Yes. Ideas are there. If it is properly exhibited, it will be wonderful thing.
Bharadvaja: Then we have... We are showing that human and animal, they have the same activity basically. So what is the difference between man and animal? So we show in this diorama. And we also show that actually sometimes animals are superior to man because they sometimes have better senses. The dog can smell better, the elephant can eat more, and the pigeon can have more sex, etcetera. So, again, why is man considered superior if animals have better senses? So then the third point, we are showing that human life means responsibility.
Prabhupada: No, vulture, from miles afar can find out where is a dead carcass.
Bharadvaja: Vulture. Very strong eyes. Right.
Prabhupada: Strong eye, but looking third class. (Bharadvaja laughs)
Bharadvaja: We're also showing that human life means responsibility. Even on an ordinary level we are showing that a man may break a law and he's punished, but a dog, he's not punished for breaking man's law. He may cross the street in the wrong place, he is not punished by the law, but the man is. Animals are walking without clothes, but if a man goes out in the street without clothes, he's arrested. So we are making the point here that man is held responsible for his actions, whereas animal is not. And then we show... The conclusion of this is "Therefore human life has responsibility to engage in the pursuit of knowledge and advancing, not degrading himself." Then we want to show that misuse of this human form of life, or giving up that responsibility, has created a chaos in the world, that the world has become full of madness and fear and pain, and the whole civilization is misguided. We want to show on film, side by side, U.N. politicians barking in U.N. and cats and dogs barking in the street.
Prabhupada: That is explained by Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Mayar bose, jaccho bese.
Bharadvaja: Khaccho...
Prabhupada: Khaccho habudubu bhai. Bhaktivinoda Thakura's song. Those who have eyes to see, they will see all of them being washed away by the waves of maya, habudubu.
Bharadvaja: Then we want to make another point, that in spite of so much chaos, there is solution, and that solution is Srimad-Bhagavatam. And we show a scene from Srimad-Bhagavatam. On the bank of Yamuna, Pariksit Maharaja is there and so many sages, and he's inquiring from Sukadeva Gosvami.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Bharadvaja: And Sukadeva Gosvami begins to instruct him. And he explains the whole process of how the living entity has come under the control of maya and how he can become extricated. This is a theatrical piece. There will be some animation.
Prabhupada: The second chapter. Find out the verses.
Bhakti-caru: Second chapter? Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Yam pravrajantam.
Bharadvaja: Giriraja has gone to get the book. Then there will be some dioramas of different avataras-Krsna, Buddha and Caitanya Mahaprabhu-showing how They have come to protect the dharma, to reestablish the dharma. Krsna is speaking to Arjuna on the battlefield.
Prabhupada: Giriraja come back.
Bharadvaja: He's here.
Giriraja: Yes.
Bharadvaja: On this side, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: The verse yam pravrajantam... Second chapter. When Vyasadeva is following Sukadeva Gosvami.
Bharadvaja: Yes. Yam pravrajantam anupetam [SB 1.2.2].
Prabhupada: Read it.
suta uvaca
yam pravrajantam anupetam apeta-krtyam
dvaipayano viraha-katara ajuhava
putreti tan-mayataya taravo 'bhinedus
tam sarva-bhuta-hrdayam munim anato 'smi
[SB 1.2.2]
Prabhupada: Hm. Next part.
Upendra: Read the translation.
Giriraja: Translation. "Srila Suta Gosvami said: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto that great sage, Sukadeva Gosvami, who can enter the hearts of all. When he went away to take up the renounced order of life sannyasa, leaving home without undergoing the sacred thread ceremony, his father, Vyasadeva, cried out to him, 'O my son!' Indeed, only the trees echoed in response to the begrieved father."
Prabhupada: Next verse.
yah svanubhavam akhila-sruti-saram ekam
adhyatma-dipam atititirsatam tamo 'ndham
samsarinam karunayaha purana-guhyam...
[SB 1.2.3]
Prabhupada: Hm. This is... Samsarinam karunaya.
Giriraja: Samsarinam karunayaha purana-guhyam tam vyasa-sunum upayami gurum muninam: "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto him, Suka, the spiritual master of all sages, the son of Vyasadeva, who, out of his great compassion for those gross materialists who struggle to cross over the darkest regions of material existence, spoke this Purana, supplement to the Vedas, the cream of Vedic knowledge, after having personally assimilated it by experience."
Prabhupada: Hm. Read the next verse.
"Before reciting this Srimad-Bhagavatam, which is our very means of conquest, I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Personality of Godhead, Narayana; unto Nara-narayana Rsi, the supermost human being; unto mother Sarasvati, the goddess of learning; and unto Srila Vyasadeva, the author."
munayah sadhu prsto 'ham
bhavadbhir loka-mangalam
yat-krtah krsna-samprasno
yenatma suprasidati
[SB 1.2.5]
"O sages, I have been justly questioned by you."
Prabhupada: These things can be exhibited. That's all right.
Bharadvaja: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So you have made the outline first class. Now, if it is carefully done, at least in the Western country, it will be a very, very wonderful thing.
Bharadvaja: We're just trying to fulfill your desires, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Do it. Krsna will fulfill.
Bharadvaja: Srila Prabhupada? Long time ago, you wanted an exhibit in London. It seemed very important to you.
Prabhupada: Yes, London there is good place. Many visitors come.
Bharadvaja: We have been considering where is the best place for this next big exhibit.
Prabhupada: London, it is...
Bharadvaja: That would be better than Washington?
Prabhupada: No, Washington, it is also... London, there are many hundreds of tourists daily come.
Jayatirtha: Right now there's a place available, a lot one block from Madame Tusseaud's in London. We thought that to be in the same area might be a good thing, because so many people are coming to that place.
Prabhupada: Yes, in the center of the city.
Jayatirtha: There's a big lot available just one block away. I think you lived on that corner at one time, just across from Madame Tusseaud's.
Prabhupada: I lived there?
Jayatirtha: When you first went to London, didn't you stay for some time there? Just in that area?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Jayatirtha: So just around the corner there there's one place available.
Prabhupada: No, that is occupied.
Jayatirtha: No, it's vacant, completely vacant. There's no longer a building on this place.
Prabhupada: Hm. That's a nice place.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? Do you want to have kirtana?
Prabhupada: Yes. Give me covering and go on, kirtana. (end)

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/oct/with_bharadvaja/vrndavana/october/16/1977

If you Love Me Distribute My Books -- Srila Prabhupada