Room Conversation – October 13, 1977, Vṛndāvana

Charismatic spiritual master

[Visit with Prabhupada's Godbrothers, Bengali]

Prabhupada: [Transl. One advantage is that whatever I order them…]

Guest: [Transl. Follow strictly.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They follow. Language no bar. Prithivite ache yata. Whatever I say they accept with proof.] And Doctor Stillson, what he has called me? Name? Carmons... What is that? C-h...

Hari-sauri: I can't remember, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: It is a common word.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. What Srila Prabhupada?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You can't tell. Who else is here? European, American? I am just forgetting the word.] It begins with c-h. Spiritual master.

Hari-sauri: I can just find out from Tamala Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Srila Prabhupada, open your mouth, here is little caranamrta.]

Prabhupada: Thank you very much for your coming.

Guest (1): Hare Krsna.

Hari-sauri: He described you as charismatic.

Prabhupada: Yes. [laughs] What is the meaning, that?

Hari-sauri: It's someone who has, by his personality, who has very attractive power or influence.

Prabhupada: [Transl. He said like this] "Charismatic spiritual master." [Transl. He respects so much. He wrote a book. He wrote many books. But this one book he specially wrote.] You have got that book?

Hari-sauri: Stillson Judah's?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: I'll just have to... I'll check in the... I think it's in the other room.

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is a big book with statistics. And in that book he has put my picture. He came here. He met Bon Maharaja. He said that although some people are envious, this Movement will go on. He wrote one book.] What is that? What is the name of Doctor Stillson's book?

Jayadvaita: J. Stillson Judah.

Prabhupada: No, no. What is name of the book?

Jayadvaita: Oh. Hare Krsna and the Counterculture.

Bhakti-caru: Hare Krsna and the Counterculture.

Jayadvaita: He's librarian of the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California. And he's Professor of Anthropology also.

Prabhupada: Soviet country, why don't you read...? Where is our Harikesa?

Guest (1): In Russian. [laughs]

Hari-sauri: That book of Stillson Judah's is in Bombay I think, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Where is Harikesa?

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Someone has gone to call him, Srila Prabhupada.]

Hari-sauri: Harikesa? I'll go get him, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: [Transl. They are very enthusiastic. I am simply lying here. They are printing books. They are going to the Universities and Libraries.] Why these books you do not keep with us?

Hari-sauri: Generally they do carry them, Srila Prabhupada, but it was left...

Tamala Krsna: There was a copy here also, and I don't see it now. There was a copy on these shelves.

[indistinct background discussion about wherabouts of book]

Prabhupada: Where is Kirtanananda Swami? [Transl. Have you seen the pictures of our New Vrndavana scheme?]

Hari-sauri: This is a palace that they're building in our New Vrindavan farm community. This is built by our own men. This is not complete yet, but it's being built, the dome. Kirtanananda Swami is in charge. These are the devotees. Everything is being made by our men, everything. They learned how to cast concrete, how to make these pillars, archways. This marble-laying is all done by our men. They came here and learned, and they have a marble shop. This is the kirtana hall inside. This is on the walls. Here's the floor. This is onyx and marble together. This is pressed concrete, sculptured.

Guest (2): Very beautiful.

Hari-sauri: This is a support piece, little decorative. This is a guesthouse that was built by the devotees. This is another new building they're building now, and this is present installation and silos for storing cow fodder. This is a part of the farm.

[appreciative sounds from Godbrothers]

Bhakti-caru: You want to sit up, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: I can sit down for some...

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? Ramesvara Maharaja wanted to show you some very nice things from the BBT. I think your Godbrothers would also be interested to see.

Prabhupada: Bring him.

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, these are pictures of the new paintings for Tenth Canto, Volume Two.

Prabhupada: Bring some prasadam for these men.

Tamala Krsna: We have, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: First of all you...

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada wants prasadam to be distributed.

Ramesvara: This is Krsna and Trnavarta demon, the whirlwind.

Hari-sauri: Show Prabhupada's Godbrothers.

Ramesvara: This is Krsna releasing the two demigods from the arjuna trees.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, can you see them?

Hari-sauri: These paintings are done in Los Angeles for Prabhupada's books. This is from Second Volume of Tenth Canto.

Ramesvara: This one is Krsna kicking the cart. Sakatasura. Krsna and the demon coming from the cart.

Kirtanananda: [laughter] They're wonderful, Prabhupada.

Ramesvara: This one is Krsna and Balarama in the cowshed of Nanda Maharaja for the name-giving ceremony. And Gargamuni is there. This one is Narada Muni cursing the two demigods for sporting naked and drinking. This is Krsna killing the giant witch Pūtana. Krsna is very small on her chest.

Hari-sauri: These are the supermost.

Tamala Krsna: Your artists have become very expert, Srila Prabhupada.

Kirtanananda: Wonderful.

Ramesvara: This one I think you have seen: Krsna stealing butter.

Tamala Krsna: This has been given to the Shah of Iran, Srila Prabhupada.

Hari-sauri: To hang in their palace.

Tamala Krsna: To hang in their palace.

Prabhupada: The Shah of Iran, [making] some connection [with him our] Parivrajakacarya [Transl. goes and speaks two, three hours with him and his men. Is this Radhika Baba? Are you doing well?]

Ramesvara: This painting is Mother Yasoda chasing Krsna with a stick because He is stealing butter. [Godbrothers are laughing, exclaiming "Oh" and "Hmm" at each picture]

Kirtanananda: It's beautiful.

Ramesvara: This painting is the fruit vendor, aborigine, giving Krsna all the fruits, and He is turning her basket of fruits into jewels.

Hari-sauri: These are wonderful.

Ramesvara: We showed this painting to the princess and told her that if you give something to Krsna, He returns it millions of times. [laughter] She liked this. This is the cowherd boys sporting in the mouth of Aghasura.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Very nice.

Ramesvara: This is Krsna eating dirt, and the boys are telling Mother Yasoda. So she is forcing Him to open His mouth, and she sees the whole universe.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

Ramesvara: This painting shows Krsna about to bifurcate the Bakasura demon. This is Krsna's first birthday, Janmastami, and Mother Yasoda and Rohini are bathing Krsna, abhiseka. This painting is Krsna eating butter. [laughter and indistinct comments] There are fourteen new paintings for one book. These are the first pictures from the Fiji temple opening. Yasoda-nandana is performing the abhiseka for the small Radha-Krsna. They have so different many metal bowls with different...

Hari-sauri: This abhiseka took us seven hours.

Prabhupada: Fiji Island. [Transl. We have a big temple in Fiji Island.]

Guest (1): Fiji Island.

Ramesvara: This is abhiseka of Krsna-Kaliya.

Hari-sauri: This is Gaura-Nitai here, and Krsna-Kaliya is here at the front. This man here is that Bhaskaranya Swami, the local man. He came and chanted during the abhiseka. He stayed up until two in the morning with us, and he began chanting japa after that.

Ramesvara: This was the procession on the opening day. We marched the Radha-Krsna Deities all over the neighborhood, through the center of the town, and hundreds of people followed. There was a shenai band.

Tamala Krsna: There is Vasudeva. Ramesvara.

Ramesvara: This was the agni-hotra ceremony on the day the temple opened.

Hari-sauri: Just after this, there was a huge rainstorm. Very successful.

Ramesvara: And this is the altar, with Krsna-Kaliya and the Naga-patnis.

Hari-sauri: Should Krsna be dressed very, very opulently like this, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Hari-sauri: Yes. They had a question in Fiji. They wanted to know whether He should be dressed simply or opulently.

Prabhupada: Krsna-Kaliya temple. [Transl. Perhaps the only one in the whole world. Eh?]

Guest: [Transl. Nowhere else.]

Ramesvara: This is Krsna's birthday cake for Janmastami in Los Angeles.

Tamala Krsna: Describe it.

Ramesvara: This cake weighs 2,000 pounds.

Tamala Krsna: The cake, Srila Prabhupada, weighs 2,000..., one ton. How high is it, Ramesvara?

Ramesvara: It is very tall.

Tamala Krsna: How many feet? About fifteen feet high.

Hari-sauri: These are the people here.

Ramesvara: And each one of these different towers spins on motor for special effects. [laughter]

Tamala Krsna: How do you eat it?

Ramesvara: Well, after it is finished spinning. It's a cheesecake, very nice cake.

Tamala Krsna: Los Angeles?

Ramesvara: Yes. This is another picture of this cake.

Tamala Krsna: That is amazing. The guests were eating big handfuls of cake prasadam, Srila Prabhupada. Was there enough for everyone?

Jayadvaita: Oh, yes.

Ramesvara: It lasts for one month, the supply. [laughter] This is another picture of the Janmastami in Los Angeles. The whole street is closed by the city, and we build a stage in front of the temple, and Sudama's men were performing Ramayana and Krsna-lila, and there were rugs in the street for people to sit on and under the panḍal on the grass, and they were watching. About five thousand people came.

Hari-sauri: Many Indians in the picture also.

Ramesvara: This is the Deities' clothes, on Janmastami.

Tamala Krsna: Sri-Sri-Rukmini-Dvarakadhisa. Los Angeles Mandir. Rukmini-Dvarakadhisa.

Ramesvara: These were the nightclothes offered on Janmastami to the Deities.

Prabhupada: See that it does not touch...

Hari-sauri: Don't touch Prabhupada's feet with the painting.

Ramesvara: This was a flower outfit offered on Janmastami. They had three outfits.

Tamala Krsna: Three different sets of clothing, all new, were offered to the Deities on Janmastami. And this one is made completely of flowers.

Ramesvara: The next morning They were offered another set of new clothes for Vyasa-pūja.

Tamala Krsna: I think you must go there, Srila Prabhupada, again. They are calling you to come.

Ramesvara: These are the new clothes for Jhulan-yatra.

Prabhupada: I have given them the philosophy of "American money and Indian culture." Combined together, the face of the world will...

Hari-sauri: Change.

Prabhupada: Don't keep Indian culture airtight, and don't keep American money for sense gratification. Use it for Krsna. So they are doing that. And Krsna is giving them intelligence. Bhakti-yogam dadami tam.

Ramesvara: These are the new clothes for Radhastami.

Prabhupada: Any respectable Indian who goes to our temple, and they give us as they want. There is no such temple in India.

Ramesvara: These were the new clothes for Balarama's Appearance Day.

Guest (2): [Transl. People say the same thing about your Albert Road Temple. Those who visit Albert Road Temple they also say the same thing. There is no other temple like that in Calcutta.]

Ramesvara: These are new clothes at New York. Sri Sri Radha-Govinda.

Prabhupada: [Transl. I just gave them the idea and they are giving shape to it. This is the point. Even their fathers and grandfathers didn't know anything.]

Ramesvara: This is a picture of some of your books, Srila Prabhupada. It shows what all the Bhagavatams, First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth Cantos look like on the shelf. Not all of them are there, but it shows the colors.

Tamala Krsna: It's hard to make a bookshelf big enough.

Ramesvara: There is not one bookshelf big enough. And here these are different Bhagavad-gitas-one, two...: English, Japanese, Portuguese, German, Spanish, French, Swedish and Italian.

Tamala Krsna: Chinese. Where's Chinese?

Hari-sauri: There's more than that.

Ramesvara: There are more.

Hari-sauri: There's much more than that.

Tamala Krsna: Show them. He wants you to show the pictures. Where are they? Where are the books? Show him. Srila Prabhupada? Gopala Krsna Prabhu brought some new offerings for you.

Gopala Krsna: It's a Hindi Scientific Basis of Krsna Consciousness.

Prabhupada: Hmm! Please come.

Hari-sauri: Maha-Visnu on the cover.

Gopala Krsna: We have printed twenty thousand copies of this.

Jayapataka: Krsna-bhavana ka vaijnanika adhara. This is nectar.

Prabhupada: [Transl. They also print Hindi books in India.]

Gopala Krsna: These books will be sold to the people for one rupee.

Tamala Krsna: What people?

Gopala Krsna: To the Indians.

Tamala Krsna: What about this conference?

Gopala Krsna: Yes, we have a big box here. It will be sold to everyone for one rupee, which is very cheap.

Tamala Krsna: They're going to have... These were ready in time for the conference, Srila Prabhupada.

Gopala Krsna: We have a big box here. So we have this in English and Hindi now.

[background whispering among devotees.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hindi books are selling like anything. Everything is happening. There is no lack. Srila Prabhupada desired to print books. It is his mercy only. Otherwise how it is possible? But it so happened dhula mutha dharte kaḍi mutha literal meaning-to catch dirt found money.] When fortune favors, everything succeeds. [Godbrothers laugh] Little attempt, great success. [Transl. This is very astonishing. And usually I do not print any book less than twenty thousand copies. Up to one lakh or two lakhs copies. And these are selling like hot cakes. This is very amazing. But by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, he used to say-do you have the name of Krsna, Caitanya in every page? Then it's all right. Everything is happening by his mercy. If all of you bless me then I may live for a few days more. They are doing everything. I only give direction. That's all. They follow my direction.]

Guest: [Transl. It is our good fortune, if you stay longer, it will be beneficial for everyone. Everyone will get Krsna. It's a great fortune for us, for them, for the society and for the world. It's good for everyone.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My duration of life has finished. Whatever was possible, has been done. Beyond my expectation. Now it's extra. The last resource is finished.]

Hari-sauri: Harikesa Swami is here now, Srila Prabhupada.

Krsna Dasa Babaji: [Transl. Hare Krsna. Dandavat. I take your leave Maharaja.]

Guest: [Transl. Dandavat. Now I take your leave. I will tell Narsimha Maharaja, he will come. He is very eager to meet you. I will tell him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If he comes, she is our godsister. She will cook.]

Guest: [Transl. No? Anybody can cook and give. What are you saying? Don't worry.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. When will he come?]

Guest: [Transl. I will go and tell him. Let us see. May be in the evening.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So in the afternoon….]

Bhakti-caru: Yes Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: [Transl. …make arrangement. How many will come?]

Guest: [Transl. Not many. May be a few.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Ten, twelve are good.]

Bhakti-caru: Okay Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Have blessings.]

Guest: [Transl. All glories to you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Forgive my offences.]

Guest & Krsna Dasa Babaji: Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.

[Godbrothers leave]

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada? The trustees have met, and there is one question to ask you. There are many articles in BTG which are written by you, or your lectures and your famous conversations, like Professor Kotovsky, Dr. Stahl. So there is a proposal to take all of these different writings that have been published in BTG and put them together in one hardbound book, so that they will be preserved.

Prabhupada: Good idea.

Tamala Krsna: For distribution.

Ramesvara: And in the future there are so many other lectures that may be preserved in this way too, if you desire. Other books can be printed in the future.

Prabhupada: Very good idea.

Jayapataka: Then there is unlimited material.

Tamala Krsna: You've not only written more than anybody, but you've spoken more about Krsna than anyone, Srila Prabhupada.

Kirtanananda: [offering a drink to Prabhupada] Drink. This is to be drunk, not spit out. Drink it, whole thing. Please, Prabhupada! How will you ever get well? Come on! [laughs] Get a cloth.

Upendra: He rinses his mouth.

Kirtanananda: He can take a little more. Your body needs more, Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada, you know, Mother Yasoda, she was very fortunate because she could completely forget that Krsna was God, and she would simply tell Krsna, "You have to do it." Unfortunately, my love is not that great, 'cause I can still remember you're my spiritual master.

Prabhupada: I am doing your order. [laughter]

Kirtanananda: Thank you very much. One more?

Jayadvaita: This is milk?

Kirtanananda: Half water. Thank you. [aside:] I think he probably wants to go down.

Hari-sauri: We can bathe you now, Srila Prabhupada?

Kirtanananda: Srila Prabhupada, you're not really going to try and eat that khichri are you?

Prabhupada: Really? Why not?

Kirtanananda: Let's just stay on this for a few days to get your body a little accustomed, and then if you want something other, we can try. I think... You're doing well, Prabhupada. And if we introduce so many different things, and if you have a reaction, then we won't know what it was that caused it.

Brahmananda: Then Prabhupada will want to stop everything.

Kirtanananda: So if we just go a little bit slowly, it will get us there faster in the end.

Prabhupada: I'm very thin, and hunger...[?] I'll take a little. And now, in the evening, they'll come about ten to twelve. Arrange for that.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Prabhupada. There's about fifty people going to come for prasadam?

Jayapataka: Fifteen.

Tamala Krsna: Fifteen.

Dr. Kapoor: They will come in afternoon.

Tamala Krsna: Twelve to fifteen. Okay. We'll arrange for their taking prasadam. So you'll bathe now, Srila Prabhupada?

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Who can read Hindi?

Hari-sauri: Who can read Hindi?

Tamala Krsna: Can you read Hindi? Where is Gopala? [break]

Prabhupada: From medical point of view, you cannot give life. The life is finished. Where is medical point? Hmm? According to duration of life, that is finished. You cannot give a dead body life.

Kirtanananda: But your body is not dead, Prabhupada. Your body is not dead. Your life is very strong.

Prabhupada: Then again you go to miracle.

Kirtanananda: Eh?

Prabhupada: Then again you go to miracle. As soon as you say, "Your body is not dead."

Trivikrama: Then you go to miracle.

Tamala Krsna: Going to miracles.

Prabhupada: That is not medical point.

Kirtanananda: I don't... It doesn't appear that...

Prabhupada: No. You said "medical point."

Kirtanananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: So medical point does not mean that you can give life to a dead body.

Kirtanananda: That is fact.

Prabhupada: So my body is now dead according to medical point. You cannot give life. So let it be doomed. It is not possible from medical point of view to give life to a dead body. What is this? It is dead body.

Upendra: Prasadam has come, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: So you can, for the time being, disperse. Let me... Whatever possible, I'll take. Then you come and chant.

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [break]

Prabhupada: ...taking poison. The body is already finished.

Upendra: What is that?

Tamala Krsna: He said, "If you think I'm taking poison, that the body is already finished."

Prabhupada: So dead body, you take poison or ambrosia, it is the same. Blind man, night or day-the same thing. Rather, if you depend on miracle, pray to Krsna that "He may survive."

Hari-sauri: We rely on Krsna, not the medical science.

Prabhupada: Medical science finished.

Jagadisa: What did he say?

Hari-sauri: Medical science finished.

Brahmananda: Sit up? [break]

Tamala Krsna: ...and make you lift, that wasn't by medical science. That was by your love for Krsna and our love for you.

Hari-sauri: When all these doctors come, they can't understand how it is that you're still here. [break]

Prabhupada: On the telephone or where?[?]

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: We just had a little bit of your maha-prasadam, and it is the sweetest nectar, Srila Prabhupada. It has given us life. [break]

Kirtanananda: ...your urine tested this morning, and there was some blood and pus in the urine. So the doctor there, he's prescribed some tablets and things. Do you want?

Prabhupada: Who is the doctor?

Kirtanananda: Bhagatji? Where's Bhagatji?

Hari-sauri: Who was that doctor?

Bhagatji: Dr. Gopal in Ramakrishna Seva Ashram. Physician. He's an M.D. He is the best doctor in Mathura district.

Kirtanananda: He said it is not... It's just one or two times you'd have to take.

Bhagatji: To check the blood. And I can call him to see you, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Let me taste this.

Tamala Krsna: First let him take the tablets.

Bhagatji: One is syrup, and one tablet to be grinded in honey.

Kirtanananda: What is this for?

Bhagatji: This is blood urea to be tested. The other doctor, one of the best doctors, he said that blood urea should be tested because there is pus, and this blood will be defect. And the aluminum also, Prabhupada... Charvi[?] is also passing.

Tamala Krsna: Charvi?[?]

Bhagatji: Two, three.

Kirtanananda: What does he need to do this test? More urine?

Bhagatji: He will take some blood.

Prabhupada: But that is the difficulty.

Hari-sauri: Yes. No blood. Prabhupada doesn't want a blood test.

Prabhupada: Let me taste this tablet. [break]

[Bengali with Bhagatji and Bhakti-caru] [break]

Visvambhara [Pisima's son]: [Transl. Very beautiful. By going to the Albert Road, no other temple in our Calcutta is so nicely decorated. No other temple like that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Same thing in the foreign countries also. During Ratha the festival is very pompous. And lot of people participate.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. People can't even think how they are able to do such a thing.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. It was written in the news paper that this time Jagannatha Ratha-yatra did not take place there but it was held in Calcutta. Jagannatha Puri's Ratha has come to ISKCON Calcutta this year.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. The chariot was drawn after two days. It did not happen the first day, but the next day the cart was drawn.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Four, five days.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. Also this year the Navakalevara festival was celebrated.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. The news paper headline read 'Jagannatha Puri's Ratha now in Calcutta'.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. Yes, They celebrate it in a grand style like that. The thing is that everyone co-operates like the news papers, police department and everyone else. Off course some bad elements are always there to disturb.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is always there. Everyone plays musical instruments. You all come and make spiritual advancement in life.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Why don't you come and stay with us? You are a bachelor. You come and stay either in Mayapur or in Vrndavana. Wherever you like.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. I keep coming from time to time. As long as my mother is there I am living in the family. Now she wanted to come here so I brought her.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Srila Prabhupada, did you have any problem with what you ate today? Everything is Okay?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So far nothing has happened.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. That means everything is digested.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. I told them that I have bought a ticket if any of you want to take my mother, then take her. But since I got no response, I brought her myself. After hearing the news of your illness I have been inquiring every now and then from Radhika Baba from Imlitala. I write letters to him and get all the news in detail. In Calcutta, educated people, those who are really educated, I have found that though they do not externally reveal but when I talk to them, like there is one gentleman named Mr. Dhar, who is a well to do man, whenever he sees a foreign sannyasi on the way he stops his car and picks him up and drops him to his desired place. First I thought he might be a life member. But one day I asked him about this and he said, whenever I see a devotee on my way to the office, he has a factory, I drop him to wherever he wants to go. He lives at Kalighat and his factory is in North Calcutta. He says it is on my way to factory and residence. I also went to Albert Road Temple a number of times.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What does he do?]

Visvambhara [Transl. He has got a factory. The internal devotion or feelings that these people have, is very rare to find among our Indian people. After receiving the news when I booked tickets for me and my mother, as I was coming I saw in front of the G.P.O. one devotee is standing and distributing books.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Everything has been possible because of Srila Prabhupada, by his blessings. Whatever we are able to do. Srila Prabhupada, yesterday you were saying you had difficulty in sitting up. Is it happening today?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No difficulty, but feel little pain.]

Visvambhara: [Transl. Somehow you have to eat some……]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yes, he cannot eat anything.] [break]

Prabhupada: Go on, kirtana. [break] What news?

Svarūpa Damodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends, who's also a retired architect. He designed [indistinct]. There's also a very well known architect who's coming with him this evening. He's going to speak on what is life and its purpose, about twenty minutes. Then the other scholars will start arriving tomorrow, and I think Sunday everybody's coming. On Sunday there will be many medical doctors... Khorana is one of our Life Members, Dr. Khorana from Delhi. He's bringing several of his friends. Also I'm expecting some doctors from Agra. One... I don't recall his name, but he's also our Life Member. Everybody says that we have chosen the right place to have a conference. There's one Dr. Mishra, he wanted to come tomorrow. Also I actually requested him to become the chief guest, but so he cannot come tomorrow, but he's coming on Sunday. And also he's speaking. So there are about five or six people from outside that are speaking on different aspects of the conference regarding life. There's one Dr. Bhatta.[?] He's one of the philosophers from Delhi University. He's speaking on..., called philosophical foundations of life. He told me that he studied a great deal about Ramanuja. Also, he said, previously he studied in Bon Maharaja's institute about ten years ago something about Vaisnava philosophy. And now he's a reader in Philosophy Department in Delhi. He's going to speak something on the philosophical aspects of life. So we expect some good crowd from the scholars, mostly scientists from physics, from chemistry, mathematics and biology. And I found that most of them are very interested, and almost everybody wanted to come, unless they had some engagement before. Everybody was very positive on our approach. In fact they encouraged us a lot, and they told us that's unique-trying to understand the concept of life from religious point of view connected with modern science. And many Bengalis are also coming.

Prabhupada: Scholar?

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the Physics Department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative about... They already know about Srila Prabhupada's activities. So there is one professor called Ghattak. He's the head of the Department of Physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's the head of the Department of Life Sciences, coming.

Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, would you like to sit up for a while?

Hari-sauri: He was just sitting about ten minutes ago.

Prabhupada: Where is Kirtanananda?

Tamala Krsna: Kirtanananda? Shall we call him?

Prabhupada: He is busy?

Aksayananda: He's not too busy to come.

Tamala Krsna: He can come.

Svarūpa Damodara: So we have decided that the function will be started with the Brahma-samhita prayer with our gurukula boys to open the conference, followed by the short speech by the chief guest. Then we'll start our main talk. Our main talk is going to last at least two hours. Each of us will speak. And then I've decided to open about half an hour for questions and answers and general discussion. On Sunday I'm leaving about..., more than an hour for discussion. We'll summarize the whole conference and also make some conclusive remarks about the previous two days' talk that we are making.

Prabhupada: So the place is cleansed or not?

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes. Place is... They are still putting the electrical wires. But otherwise, we have decorated the inside with curtains, so everything will be nice also. We're cleaning the other hall for serving the prasadam.

Tamala Krsna: And all of the guesthouse rooms, Srila Prabhupada, have been vacated for the scientists. The whole guesthouse is ready to receive them, and all the rooms have been cleansed freshly. It's ready for them. [pause] Kirtanananda Maharaja is here, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Kirtanananda Maharaja?

Kirtanananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: Do you know about the conference?

Kirtanananda: About what?

Tamala Krsna: About the conference.

Kirtanananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: So cooperate. You have heard what the arrangement?

Svarūpa Damodara: You have heard about the arrangement in the conference?

Kirtanananda: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: I'm inviting, requesting all the GBCs, and also the sannyasis, maharajas, to kindly attend the conference unless they're engaged at that time. [pause]

Prabhupada: According to horoscope, life is finished. Still, I am living. What should be the interpretation?

Hari-sauri: What should be the...?

Kirtanananda: The interpretation.

Svarūpa Damodara: About the conference?

Prabhupada: No, about... About me.

Hari-sauri: Life is different from matter.

Kirtanananda: Srila Prabhupada, even the astrologers all say that you are transcendental, that if you want, you can change your horoscope. And that's what you told us, that Krsna said the choice is up to you.

Prabhupada: So what do you think?

Tamala Krsna: I think, Srila Prabhupada, that you should continue to try, and that Krsna will help you, because we all want you. The whole world wants you very much, and there's no reason why Krsna cannot do this. If we remain determined, then Krsna will surely fulfill our desires. We're not desiring it for any selfish reason that you should live. We're desiring for the benefit of the whole world. There's every reason to continue to try and make the effort to remain.

Prabhupada: So, something to eat. What shall I eat?

Svarūpa Damodara: Something liquid. [whispering among devotees: "It has to be tasteful.]

Kirtanananda: [aside:] Three hours later. [whispering among devotees]

Prabhupada: They cannot come for three days. Eh?

Svarūpa Damodara: Many are coming for three days, except for a few. From Agra I expect about fifty, and from Mathura there will be about fifteen to twenty, and from Delhi I expect about thirty for tomorrow. Then, on Saturday, Sunday... Sunday is going to be... Everybody's coming on Sunday, whomever I invited. Because in Delhi, schools and colleges are still going on.

Prabhupada: Fifty, fifty.

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes. So it will be about a hundred. These are all mostly professors, very few students. There's about four or five. All are professors. Some of them wanted to help me start a center in Delhi of our Bhaktivedanta Institute. They told me they can help me in setting up one center in Delhi. There's one Professor Malsanda, he's the head of the Physiology Department.

Prabhupada: Why not take the chance?

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes. Also, while I was typing in the Connaught Place, some businessman came and he saw the letterhead saying "Bhaktivedanta Institute." Then he asked me later on, "What is this Institute?" Then I told him Prabhupada's projects and plans. And he was very sincere and serious. He was a big businessman. And he wanted to help me in setting up one center in Delhi.

Prabhupada: So take this opportunity. And who will supply the place, suitable place? It will be very prestigious in Delhi.

Svarūpa Damodara: Delhi is like Washington, D.C.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: They have many offices. Similarly, in Washington, D.C. they have many headquarters for these scientific and governmental organizations.

Prabhupada: All embassies.

Svarūpa Damodara: And also I have set up one round-table debating conference in the Indian Academy of Sciences. That will be right after the conference in Delhi.

Prabhupada: Rama?

Svarūpa Damodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kothari. D. S. Kothari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and is very respected, all Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.

Prabhupada: We want that they should be interested.

Svarūpa Damodara: Oh, yes. They are very interested. All the universities, wherever I went, everybody thought that this was a very genuine idea, and they wanted to know more about it. Also, the chief guest who is coming this evening... I discussed briefly yesterday. He was... Actually he's a very well known figure in the United Nations. He represented several times in the United Nations program, and he spoke also many times in the U.N., and he was... We were discussing briefly about the limitations of science, and the scientists are sometimes trying to speak so many big words without any scientific background, like especially in the case of life. So actually he's going to speak in favor of our Krsna consciousness. He suggested that this Krsna consciousness is a movement like United Nations.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: He himself is a man from the United Nations, experienced, and he thought Krsna consciousness, if we can push forward, it will be best in the world. That was his opinion.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarūpa Damodara: He had a great respect for our movement. I didn't know him before. He's a very well known educationist also.

Prabhupada: So, Kirtanananda Maharaja?

Kirtanananda: Yes, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: How do you like?

Kirtanananda: The conference? I think it's wonderful.

Prabhupada: This is the beginning. And arrange for such conference one after another, many... Do something so that before my departure I can see something. Oh, Bhavananda [indistinct]. Or smite. Where is Bhavananda?

Tamala Krsna: Brahmananda?

Svarūpa Damodara: Bhavananda.

Tamala Krsna: Bhavananda.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: We'll call him, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Our only ambition is to stop this. God is one, He is a person, and He's Krsna.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupada: And we are following what Krsna says. Then our life is success. Hmm? What is that? Kothari has now retired?

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. He retired a few years ago. But he's still very active in the Science Academy, and he writes articles. And he sent me an article just a few days ago called "The Mind and the Body Relationship in Modern Science." Sometimes in the West they think that mind is the soul. So he sent me an article, and he asked me what do I think about his article.

Prabhupada: According to our sastra, mind is meant for speculation. It does not give us any definite knowledge. My mind is working in one way; your mind is working another way. There is no conclu... Manorathenasati dhavato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12].

This is the result of mental speculation. And Gita also says that manaḥ sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg 15.7]. This spiritual spark, being bound up by the mind and the senses, is struggling hard on the material nature. And he's simply struggling. No fixed-up condition. Everyone will say, "I think this is right." What is right, he does not know. That is struggle. Is it not?

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. There are a group of physicists in the world today that... They think that the phenomena and the relationship between life and matter is some sort of a complementary. Just like they took this idea from a physicist called Niels Bohr. He tried to explain the quality of a particle called electron that has two properties. Sometimes is behaves like a wave, and sometimes it behaves like a particle. So he proposed an idea called "complementarity." Taking from that idea, some of the present-day physicists are thinking that life and matter are some sort of a complementary. But we are saying that that is wrong, saying that life is completely different from matter, inanimate matter. We're going to make that stand strong and also make it quite clear in the conference.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Bhavananda Maharaja is here.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Bhavananda Maharaja?

Bhavananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: So, things are being arranged very nice?

Bhavananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Everything is being arranged now. The district magistrate and local officials have all been invited personally this morning, and the guesthouse is being completely cleaned up and made nice. Prasadam is being arranged. Conference room is being decorated. The dining hall for their prasadam is all being arranged also.

Prabhupada: At the present moment our ordinary prasadam is very much liked by...

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: No, he approved. He was saying, "It is very nice." And our members also say. Tamala Krsna?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: You also said.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. I personally feel that the prasadam here at lunchtime is some of the nicest prasadam I have eaten ever. Every day it's consistently very nice, served very nicely, and sufficient quantity.

Prabhupada: So kindly maintain this standard. That is very important item. I am not eating, but I am hearing [laughter] and getting the appetite.

Devotees: Jaya.

Tamala Krsna: Another nice feature, Srila Prabhupada, is that we all eat together.

Prabhupada: Catur-vidha-sri-bhagavat-prasada-svadv-anna-trptan hari-bhakta-sahghan, krtvaiva trptim bhajataḥ sadaiva. This is also bhajana-to be satisfied that others are taking first-class prasadam.

Tamala Krsna: Bhuhkte bhojayate caiva saḍ-vidham priti-laksanam .

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes. We want to treat them very nicely outside the conference, like giving nice prasadam.

[break] ...yes. So we have specifically arranged for this nice prasadam.

Tamala Krsna: Inside you're not going to be nice to them? [laughter]

Svarūpa Damodara: Inside we are going to say very strongly about our philosophy and science. So anybody who's going to oppose that, we're going to duel them. Also, we'll show some films, our Hare Krsna films, just after the conference. The evening, I have some entertainment program. That program is for showing our films and our activities, ISKCON activities throughout the world. So I have brought all the slides from Los Angeles that we have from our BBT department, and also I have all the films ready. Also, they can attend mahgala-arati, and in the evening they can also attend the sandhya-arati. And also some of them want just to see our temple, Krsna-Balarama. They have heard that the architect is very nice, and it's very nicely decorated. So some of them already heard about it, so they just want to see how the temple is here. And so, I think, overall our idea is also to make them devotees.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is wanted. So go and arrange. That's all.

Svarūpa Damodara: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [end]