Room Conversation – October 13, 1977, Vṛndāvana
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771013R1.VRN
771013R1-Vrindavan [94:28 Minutes]
Charismatic spiritual master
[Visit with Prabhupada's Godbrothers, Bengali]
Prabhupada: [Transl. One advantage is that whatever I order them…]
Guest: [Transl. Follow strictly.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. They follow. Language no bar. Prithivite ache yata. Whatever I say they accept with proof.] And Doctor Stillson, what he has called me? Name? Carmons... What is that? C-h...
Prabhupada: It is a common word.
Prabhupada: [Transl. You can't tell. Who else is here? European, American? I am just forgetting the word.] It begins with c-h. Spiritual master.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Thank you very much for your coming.
Guest (1): Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. [laughs] What is the meaning, that?
Prabhupada: [Transl. He said like this] "Charismatic spiritual master." [Transl. He respects so much. He wrote a book. He wrote many books. But this one book he specially wrote.] You have got that book?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: [Transl. It is a big book with statistics. And in that book he has put my picture. He came here. He met Bon Maharaja. He said that although some people are envious, this Movement will go on. He wrote one book.] What is that? What is the name of Doctor Stillson's book?
Jayadvaita: J. Stillson Judah.
Prabhupada: No, no. What is name of the book?
Jayadvaita: Oh. Hare Krsna and the Counterculture.
Jayadvaita: He's librarian of the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California. And he's Professor of Anthropology also.
Prabhupada: Soviet country, why don't you read...? Where is our Harikesa?
Guest (1): In Russian. [laughs]
Prabhupada: Where is Harikesa?
Prabhupada: [Transl. They are very enthusiastic. I am simply lying here. They are printing books. They are going to the Universities and Libraries.] Why these books you do not keep with us?
[indistinct background discussion about wherabouts of book]
Prabhupada: Where is Kirtanananda Swami? [Transl. Have you seen the pictures of our New Vrndavana scheme?]
Hari-sauri: This is a palace that they're building in our New Vrindavan farm community. This is built by our own men. This is not complete yet, but it's being built, the dome. Kirtanananda Swami is in charge. These are the devotees. Everything is being made by our men, everything. They learned how to cast concrete, how to make these pillars, archways. This marble-laying is all done by our men. They came here and learned, and they have a marble shop. This is the kirtana hall inside. This is on the walls. Here's the floor. This is onyx and marble together. This is pressed concrete, sculptured.
Guest (2): Very beautiful.
[appreciative sounds from Godbrothers]
Prabhupada: I can sit down for some...
Prabhupada: Bring him.
Prabhupada: Bring some prasadam for these men.
Prabhupada: First of all you...
Kirtanananda: [laughter] They're wonderful, Prabhupada.
Kirtanananda: Wonderful.
Prabhupada: The Shah of Iran, [making] some connection [with him our] Parivrajakacarya [Transl. goes and speaks two, three hours with him and his men. Is this Radhika Baba? Are you doing well?]
Kirtanananda: It's beautiful.
Prabhupada: Hmm. Very nice.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Ramesvara: This painting shows Krsna about to bifurcate the Bakasura demon. This is Krsna's first birthday, Janmastami, and Mother Yasoda and Rohini are bathing Krsna, abhiseka. This painting is Krsna eating butter. [laughter and indistinct comments] There are fourteen new paintings for one book. These are the first pictures from the Fiji temple opening. Yasoda-nandana is performing the abhiseka for the small Radha-Krsna. They have so different many metal bowls with different...
Prabhupada: Fiji Island. [Transl. We have a big temple in Fiji Island.]
Guest (1): Fiji Island.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Guest: [Transl. Nowhere else.]
Ramesvara: This cake weighs 2,000 pounds.
Ramesvara: It is very tall.
Ramesvara: And each one of these different towers spins on motor for special effects. [laughter]
Ramesvara: Well, after it is finished spinning. It's a cheesecake, very nice cake.
Ramesvara: Yes. This is another picture of this cake.
Jayadvaita: Oh, yes.
Ramesvara: It lasts for one month, the supply. [laughter] This is another picture of the Janmastami in Los Angeles. The whole street is closed by the city, and we build a stage in front of the temple, and Sudama's men were performing Ramayana and Krsna-lila, and there were rugs in the street for people to sit on and under the pandal on the grass, and they were watching. About five thousand people came.
Ramesvara: This is the Deities' clothes, on Janmastami.
Prabhupada: See that it does not touch...
Ramesvara: This was a flower outfit offered on Janmastami. They had three outfits.
Tamala Krsna: Three different sets of clothing, all new, were offered to the Deities on Janmastami. And this one is made completely of flowers.
Prabhupada: I have given them the philosophy of "American money and Indian culture." Combined together, the face of the world will...
Ramesvara: These are the new clothes for Radhastami.
Prabhupada: Any respectable Indian who goes to our temple, and they give us as they want. There is no such temple in India.
Guest (2): [Transl. People say the same thing about your Albert Road Temple. Those who visit Albert Road Temple they also say the same thing. There is no other temple like that in Calcutta.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. I just gave them the idea and they are giving shape to it. This is the point. Even their fathers and grandfathers didn't know anything.]
Ramesvara: There are more.
Prabhupada: Hmm! Please come.
Prabhupada: [Transl. They also print Hindi books in India.]
[background whispering among devotees.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Hindi books are selling like anything. Everything is happening. There is no lack. Srila Prabhupada desired to print books. It is his mercy only. Otherwise how it is possible? But it so happened dhula mutha dharte kadi mutha literal meaning-to catch dirt found money.] When fortune favors, everything succeeds. [Godbrothers laugh] Little attempt, great success. [Transl. This is very astonishing. And usually I do not print any book less than twenty thousand copies. Up to one lakh or two lakhs copies. And these are selling like hot cakes. This is very amazing. But by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, he used to say-do you have the name of Krsna, Caitanya in every page? Then it's all right. Everything is happening by his mercy. If all of you bless me then I may live for a few days more. They are doing everything. I only give direction. That's all. They follow my direction.]
Guest: [Transl. It is our good fortune, if you stay longer, it will be beneficial for everyone. Everyone will get Krsna. It's a great fortune for us, for them, for the society and for the world. It's good for everyone.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. My duration of life has finished. Whatever was possible, has been done. Beyond my expectation. Now it's extra. The last resource is finished.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If he comes, she is our godsister. She will cook.]
Guest: [Transl. No? Anybody can cook and give. What are you saying? Don't worry.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. When will he come?]
Guest: [Transl. I will go and tell him. Let us see. May be in the evening.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. So in the afternoon….]
Prabhupada: [Transl. …make arrangement. How many will come?]
Guest: [Transl. Not many. May be a few.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Ten, twelve are good.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Have blessings.]
Guest: [Transl. All glories to you.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Forgive my offences.]
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
[Godbrothers leave]
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada? The trustees have met, and there is one question to ask you. There are many articles in BTG which are written by you, or your lectures and your famous conversations, like Professor Kotovsky, Dr. Stahl. So there is a proposal to take all of these different writings that have been published in BTG and put them together in one hardbound book, so that they will be preserved.
Prabhupada: Good idea.
Ramesvara: And in the future there are so many other lectures that may be preserved in this way too, if you desire. Other books can be printed in the future.
Prabhupada: Very good idea.
Jayapataka: Then there is unlimited material.
Kirtanananda: [offering a drink to Prabhupada] Drink. This is to be drunk, not spit out. Drink it, whole thing. Please, Prabhupada! How will you ever get well? Come on! [laughs] Get a cloth.
Upendra: He rinses his mouth.
Kirtanananda: He can take a little more. Your body needs more, Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada, you know, Mother Yasoda, she was very fortunate because she could completely forget that Krsna was God, and she would simply tell Krsna, "You have to do it." Unfortunately, my love is not that great, 'cause I can still remember you're my spiritual master.
Prabhupada: I am doing your order. [laughter]
Kirtanananda: Thank you very much. One more?
Jayadvaita: This is milk?
Kirtanananda: Half water. Thank you. [aside:] I think he probably wants to go down.
Prabhupada: Really? Why not?
Kirtanananda: Let's just stay on this for a few days to get your body a little accustomed, and then if you want something other, we can try. I think... You're doing well, Prabhupada. And if we introduce so many different things, and if you have a reaction, then we won't know what it was that caused it.
Brahmananda: Then Prabhupada will want to stop everything.
Kirtanananda: So if we just go a little bit slowly, it will get us there faster in the end.
Prabhupada: I'm very thin, and hunger...[?] I'll take a little. And now, in the evening, they'll come about ten to twelve. Arrange for that.
Jayapataka: Fifteen.
Dr. Kapoor: They will come in afternoon.
Prabhupada: Who can read Hindi?
Prabhupada: From medical point of view, you cannot give life. The life is finished. Where is medical point? Hmm? According to duration of life, that is finished. You cannot give a dead body life.
Kirtanananda: But your body is not dead, Prabhupada. Your body is not dead. Your life is very strong.
Prabhupada: Then again you go to miracle.
Kirtanananda: Eh?
Prabhupada: Then again you go to miracle. As soon as you say, "Your body is not dead."
Trivikrama: Then you go to miracle.
Prabhupada: That is not medical point.
Kirtanananda: I don't... It doesn't appear that...
Prabhupada: No. You said "medical point."
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: So medical point does not mean that you can give life to a dead body.
Kirtanananda: That is fact.
Prabhupada: So my body is now dead according to medical point. You cannot give life. So let it be doomed. It is not possible from medical point of view to give life to a dead body. What is this? It is dead body.
Prabhupada: So you can, for the time being, disperse. Let me... Whatever possible, I'll take. Then you come and chant.
Prabhupada: ...taking poison. The body is already finished.
Upendra: What is that?
Prabhupada: So dead body, you take poison or ambrosia, it is the same. Blind man, night or day-the same thing. Rather, if you depend on miracle, pray to Krsna that "He may survive."
Prabhupada: Medical science finished.
Jagadisa: What did he say?
Brahmananda: Sit up? [break]
Prabhupada: On the telephone or where?[?]
Kirtanananda: ...your urine tested this morning, and there was some blood and pus in the urine. So the doctor there, he's prescribed some tablets and things. Do you want?
Prabhupada: Who is the doctor?
Kirtanananda: Bhagatji? Where's Bhagatji?
Kirtanananda: He said it is not... It's just one or two times you'd have to take.
Bhagatji: To check the blood. And I can call him to see you, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Let me taste this.
Bhagatji: One is syrup, and one tablet to be grinded in honey.
Kirtanananda: What is this for?
Bhagatji: This is blood urea to be tested. The other doctor, one of the best doctors, he said that blood urea should be tested because there is pus, and this blood will be defect. And the aluminum also, Prabhupada... Charvi[?] is also passing.
Bhagatji: Two, three.
Kirtanananda: What does he need to do this test? More urine?
Bhagatji: He will take some blood.
Prabhupada: But that is the difficulty.
Prabhupada: Let me taste this tablet. [break]
Visvambhara [Pisima's son]: [Transl. Very beautiful. By going to the Albert Road, no other temple in our Calcutta is so nicely decorated. No other temple like that.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Same thing in the foreign countries also. During Ratha the festival is very pompous. And lot of people participate.]
Visvambhara: [Transl. The chariot was drawn after two days. It did not happen the first day, but the next day the cart was drawn.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Four, five days.]
Visvambhara: [Transl. Yes, They celebrate it in a grand style like that. The thing is that everyone co-operates like the news papers, police department and everyone else. Off course some bad elements are always there to disturb.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That is always there. Everyone plays musical instruments. You all come and make spiritual advancement in life.]
Visvambhara: [Transl. I keep coming from time to time. As long as my mother is there I am living in the family. Now she wanted to come here so I brought her.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. So far nothing has happened.]
Visvambhara: [Transl. I told them that I have bought a ticket if any of you want to take my mother, then take her. But since I got no response, I brought her myself. After hearing the news of your illness I have been inquiring every now and then from Radhika Baba from Imlitala. I write letters to him and get all the news in detail. In Calcutta, educated people, those who are really educated, I have found that though they do not externally reveal but when I talk to them, like there is one gentleman named Mr. Dhar, who is a well to do man, whenever he sees a foreign sannyasi on the way he stops his car and picks him up and drops him to his desired place. First I thought he might be a life member. But one day I asked him about this and he said, whenever I see a devotee on my way to the office, he has a factory, I drop him to wherever he wants to go. He lives at Kalighat and his factory is in North Calcutta. He says it is on my way to factory and residence. I also went to Albert Road Temple a number of times.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What does he do?]
Visvambhara [Transl. He has got a factory. The internal devotion or feelings that these people have, is very rare to find among our Indian people. After receiving the news when I booked tickets for me and my mother, as I was coming I saw in front of the G.P.O. one devotee is standing and distributing books.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No difficulty, but feel little pain.]
Prabhupada: Go on, kirtana. [break] What news?
Svarupa Damodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends, who's also a retired architect. He designed [indistinct]. There's also a very well known architect who's coming with him this evening. He's going to speak on what is life and its purpose, about twenty minutes. Then the other scholars will start arriving tomorrow, and I think Sunday everybody's coming. On Sunday there will be many medical doctors... Khorana is one of our Life Members, Dr. Khorana from Delhi. He's bringing several of his friends. Also I'm expecting some doctors from Agra. One... I don't recall his name, but he's also our Life Member. Everybody says that we have chosen the right place to have a conference. There's one Dr. Mishra, he wanted to come tomorrow. Also I actually requested him to become the chief guest, but so he cannot come tomorrow, but he's coming on Sunday. And also he's speaking. So there are about five or six people from outside that are speaking on different aspects of the conference regarding life. There's one Dr. Bhatta.[?] He's one of the philosophers from Delhi University. He's speaking on..., called philosophical foundations of life. He told me that he studied a great deal about Ramanuja. Also, he said, previously he studied in Bon Maharaja's institute about ten years ago something about Vaisnava philosophy. And now he's a reader in Philosophy Department in Delhi. He's going to speak something on the philosophical aspects of life. So we expect some good crowd from the scholars, mostly scientists from physics, from chemistry, mathematics and biology. And I found that most of them are very interested, and almost everybody wanted to come, unless they had some engagement before. Everybody was very positive on our approach. In fact they encouraged us a lot, and they told us that's unique-trying to understand the concept of life from religious point of view connected with modern science. And many Bengalis are also coming.
Prabhupada: Scholar?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the Physics Department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative about... They already know about Srila Prabhupada's activities. So there is one professor called Ghattak. He's the head of the Department of Physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's the head of the Department of Life Sciences, coming.
Prabhupada: Where is Kirtanananda?
Prabhupada: He is busy?
Aksayananda: He's not too busy to come.
Svarupa Damodara: So we have decided that the function will be started with the Brahma-samhita prayer with our gurukula boys to open the conference, followed by the short speech by the chief guest. Then we'll start our main talk. Our main talk is going to last at least two hours. Each of us will speak. And then I've decided to open about half an hour for questions and answers and general discussion. On Sunday I'm leaving about..., more than an hour for discussion. We'll summarize the whole conference and also make some conclusive remarks about the previous two days' talk that we are making.
Prabhupada: So the place is cleansed or not?
Prabhupada: Kirtanananda Maharaja?
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Do you know about the conference?
Kirtanananda: About what?
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: So cooperate. You have heard what the arrangement?
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: According to horoscope, life is finished. Still, I am living. What should be the interpretation?
Kirtanananda: The interpretation.
Prabhupada: No, about... About me.
Prabhupada: So what do you think?
Tamala Krsna: I think, Srila Prabhupada, that you should continue to try, and that Krsna will help you, because we all want you. The whole world wants you very much, and there's no reason why Krsna cannot do this. If we remain determined, then Krsna will surely fulfill our desires. We're not desiring it for any selfish reason that you should live. We're desiring for the benefit of the whole world. There's every reason to continue to try and make the effort to remain.
Prabhupada: So, something to eat. What shall I eat?
Kirtanananda: [aside:] Three hours later. [whispering among devotees]
Prabhupada: They cannot come for three days. Eh?
Svarupa Damodara: Many are coming for three days, except for a few. From Agra I expect about fifty, and from Mathura there will be about fifteen to twenty, and from Delhi I expect about thirty for tomorrow. Then, on Saturday, Sunday... Sunday is going to be... Everybody's coming on Sunday, whomever I invited. Because in Delhi, schools and colleges are still going on.
Prabhupada: Fifty, fifty.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. So it will be about a hundred. These are all mostly professors, very few students. There's about four or five. All are professors. Some of them wanted to help me start a center in Delhi of our Bhaktivedanta Institute. They told me they can help me in setting up one center in Delhi. There's one Professor Malsanda, he's the head of the Physiology Department.
Prabhupada: Why not take the chance?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Also, while I was typing in the Connaught Place, some businessman came and he saw the letterhead saying "Bhaktivedanta Institute." Then he asked me later on, "What is this Institute?" Then I told him Prabhupada's projects and plans. And he was very sincere and serious. He was a big businessman. And he wanted to help me in setting up one center in Delhi.
Prabhupada: So take this opportunity. And who will supply the place, suitable place? It will be very prestigious in Delhi.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: All embassies.
Prabhupada: Rama?
Svarupa Damodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kothari. D. S. Kothari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and is very respected, all Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.
Prabhupada: We want that they should be interested.
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, yes. They are very interested. All the universities, wherever I went, everybody thought that this was a very genuine idea, and they wanted to know more about it. Also, the chief guest who is coming this evening... I discussed briefly yesterday. He was... Actually he's a very well known figure in the United Nations. He represented several times in the United Nations program, and he spoke also many times in the U.N., and he was... We were discussing briefly about the limitations of science, and the scientists are sometimes trying to speak so many big words without any scientific background, like especially in the case of life. So actually he's going to speak in favor of our Krsna consciousness. He suggested that this Krsna consciousness is a movement like United Nations.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: So, Kirtanananda Maharaja?
Kirtanananda: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: How do you like?
Kirtanananda: The conference? I think it's wonderful.
Prabhupada: This is the beginning. And arrange for such conference one after another, many... Do something so that before my departure I can see something. Oh, Bhavananda [indistinct]. Or smite. Where is Bhavananda?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Our only ambition is to stop this. God is one, He is a person, and He's Krsna.
Devotees: Jaya.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. He retired a few years ago. But he's still very active in the Science Academy, and he writes articles. And he sent me an article just a few days ago called "The Mind and the Body Relationship in Modern Science." Sometimes in the West they think that mind is the soul. So he sent me an article, and he asked me what do I think about his article.
This is the result of mental speculation. And Gita also says that manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg 15.7]. This spiritual spark, being bound up by the mind and the senses, is struggling hard on the material nature. And he's simply struggling. No fixed-up condition. Everyone will say, "I think this is right." What is right, he does not know. That is struggle. Is it not?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. There are a group of physicists in the world today that... They think that the phenomena and the relationship between life and matter is some sort of a complementary. Just like they took this idea from a physicist called Niels Bohr. He tried to explain the quality of a particle called electron that has two properties. Sometimes is behaves like a wave, and sometimes it behaves like a particle. So he proposed an idea called "complementarity." Taking from that idea, some of the present-day physicists are thinking that life and matter are some sort of a complementary. But we are saying that that is wrong, saying that life is completely different from matter, inanimate matter. We're going to make that stand strong and also make it quite clear in the conference.
Bhavananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So, things are being arranged very nice?
Bhavananda: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Everything is being arranged now. The district magistrate and local officials have all been invited personally this morning, and the guesthouse is being completely cleaned up and made nice. Prasadam is being arranged. Conference room is being decorated. The dining hall for their prasadam is all being arranged also.
Prabhupada: At the present moment our ordinary prasadam is very much liked by...
Prabhupada: You also said.
Prabhupada: So kindly maintain this standard. That is very important item. I am not eating, but I am hearing [laughter] and getting the appetite.
Devotees: Jaya.
[break] ...yes. So we have specifically arranged for this nice prasadam.
Svarupa Damodara: Inside we are going to say very strongly about our philosophy and science. So anybody who's going to oppose that, we're going to duel them. Also, we'll show some films, our Hare Krsna films, just after the conference. The evening, I have some entertainment program. That program is for showing our films and our activities, ISKCON activities throughout the world. So I have brought all the slides from Los Angeles that we have from our BBT department, and also I have all the films ready. Also, they can attend maṅgala-arati, and in the evening they can also attend the sandhya-arati. And also some of them want just to see our temple, Krsna-Balarama. They have heard that the architect is very nice, and it's very nicely decorated. So some of them already heard about it, so they just want to see how the temple is here. And so, I think, overall our idea is also to make them devotees.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is wanted. So go and arrange. That's all.
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