Room Conversation Kavirāja from Calcutta Arrives – October 28, 1977, Vṛndāvana

If you distribute prasada, there will be no scarcity of participants

Svarūpa Damodara: ...with the press [indistinct].

Prabhupada: What you are doing?

Svarūpa Damodara: ...with the press from the Indian Express and other newspapers. And also I went to the television and the All-India Radio for the engagement. And also I wanted to discuss with some of my members the immediate plan that we have. So I sent one to Bombay to organize a conference. So I'll try to cover this area very quickly-Agra, Delhi and Punjab. I'm meeting a lot of scientists. And also I collected several copies of the newspaper, The Statesman. I went to the Statesman building, collected the newspaper, that coverage. How are you feeling, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: That kaviraja did not come?

Devotee: That kaviraja? What happened? No one knows.

Svarūpa Damodara: Is he coming from Calcutta?

Upendra: They left. They say he left Calcutta at twelve o'clock flight.

Svarūpa Damodara: I could have gone to the airport. Maybe they are coming tomorrow on the train, Taj Express?

Upendra: No, by air they came.

Svarūpa Damodara: No, no. From Delhi. I thought that maybe he didn't know that, Adri...? If it starts from Calcutta at twelve o'clock, it should be arriving at Delhi about two o'clock.

Upendra: Then let's say one hour, then three to here.

Svarūpa Damodara: There's a train at five o'clock that I came by, train, five o'clock. It's a very good train. Maybe they didn't know that train. It starts from Nizammuddin Station. So if they're planning to come by train tomorrow, the Taj Express is at seven o'clock in the morning, arriving Mathura at nine o'clock.

Upendra: Someone could call Delhi.

Svarūpa Damodara: I don't know whether they're in the temple or not. I think some of our men came from Delhi temple about four o'clock, arrived in the temple. [break]

Tamala Krsna: And we discussed a number of points. One thing is that I talked to him about Panchashil flat. So I explained to him that he should feel the responsibility for paying for the living there, as we have given him this nice place. So he's agreed to do that. And I told him that whatever he pays, the receipts should be in your name, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Apparently, the receipts have been issued in the name of M. M. De. So I told him don't do that, because if they get the receipts in their name, then they become the tenant. I don't want that. They're living there as our guest, not as tenants. So he agreed to that. As soon as I mentioned it, he understood what I was talking about. M.M. is a little clever, I think. So then I told him, however, that the permanent electricity was never hooked up. Permanent electricity line was never installed. So since that was an initial giving of the flat, I told him that if he paid for half of that, we would pay the other half. I said but first of all he has to pay and send me the receipt showing that he's paid, and then we'll pay. It's about 650 rupees.

Prabhupada: Six hundred and fifty?

Tamala Krsna: Half. It's thirteen hundred total. This is for permanent connection of electricity. The flat never has had a permanent connection. The whole building is not permanent. It's a temporary line. So all the...

Prabhupada: Yearly?

Tamala Krsna: No, no. Once and for all. It's a permanent installation of a permanent line. The yearly electricity bill he'll pay. That's his business. Then he seems to want to repay this amount that we're giving from the postal receipts. So I have no objection. If he repays, then we'll simply follow the original scheme and divide it up accordingly. Or he can divide it up. I don't know why he wants to pay it back. I don't know. I've explained to him that it's a donation. But anyway, it's better he pays it back, and then we can give it to each of the persons involved. I don't think there's any need of taking any loan agreement or anything, is there? Is there any need?

Prabhupada: I don't think so.

Tamala Krsna: I mean, verbal agreement is enough, isn't it, in dealing with him? I would think so. I mean, I thought it was sufficient if he agrees verbally. No contract or loan agreement. He wants to pay this money back by April. I didn't tell him he had to. I told him it was a donation. But he seems to want to pay it back. So let him if he wants to. Then he wanted me to arrange, so I'm sending... I gave the receipts to him, as you saw. I'm sending the letter... I'm sending a man to Delhi tomorrow to get a ticket for him, airline ticket.

Prabhupada: Where he is?

Tamala Krsna: He's gone to take his meals now. Then he's going to take rest, he said.

Prabhupada: And he has got the papers?

Tamala Krsna: He gave them back to me to keep in the almirah locked up. He said until he goes he wants me to keep them carefully. I said all right. And I'm getting him a ticket as well as sending the letters by special mail service to Bombay for Giriraja's signature, so that at least from our side there will not be any reason to delay. And when I showed him the letter that I had written to the bank, he was very satisfied. He could understand that there should be no difficulty now. He was quite confident after reading the letter. The letter is very clearly written, and with the power of attorney it's a complete document. I think everything was done all right. He seemed to be satisfied.

Prabhupada: So what about kaviraja? He might think it is a whimsical. And that was my last desire. You could not.

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: That kaviraja, I wanted. Somehow or other, it has not happened.

Tamala Krsna: I don't feel that it's conclusively not happened.

Prabhupada: Yes. Simply, one after another, frustration.[?]

Tamala Krsna: Yes. First we had that Madhva..., not Madhva; Ramanuji came from Sri Rahgaji temple, and he seemed to be a cheater. Then this one... We got this medicine from that sakta-kaviraja, and that medicine turned out to be poison. And now this kaviraja who's supposed to be coming from Calcutta, it's become a mystery where he is. The temple was called, and they said that they've left.

Bhavananda: Twice.

Tamala Krsna: They called twice to Calcutta, and they said they've left, and yet he's not here. I don't know what to make of it. Very puzzling situation. I think that if by tomorrow noon they have not arrived, then Satadhanya can go to Calcutta to bring them. If they're going to arrive, they'd arrive by tomorrow noon.

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes, at the latest.

Tamala Krsna: At the latest absolutely. I mean, to me, for them to arrive by tomorrow noon was not... From the very beginning I would not have felt it was out of the ordinary.

Prabhupada: They said they have left!

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Still, whatever the reason is.

Prabhupada: But you are not talking... Everything is being done by the same Satadhanya. [laughs]

Tamala Krsna: By the same what?

Prabhupada: Satadhanya.

Tamala Krsna: [laughter] Yeah, that's maybe what the problem is.

Prabhupada: And people are bluffing him, and he says...

Tamala Krsna: And he's bluffing us. [laughs] He seems very sincere, though. It's hard not to believe him.

Prabhupada: And that was my impression. But how is that? If you take leave, something[?].

Tamala Krsna: It is a big mystery, this makara-dhvaja. It is like the immortal elixir, very hard to grasp. I think you described the flowers in the sky? There's that Bengali...

Bhakti-caru: Akasa-puspa?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Well, one thing we could say in favor of the kaviraja delay in coming is that if he had come, then he might have given some medicine right away. But this way, your body has been given a chance to rest from that other thing that you had taken. By not taking medicine for two days now, it's good. It's made... The body will become a little more regular. If he had come, naturally he would have wanted to immediately prescribe some medicine. This is not bad, to give the body a rest after such strong medicine. How much did Prabhupada drink today?

Bhakti-caru: A little over 450.

Tamala Krsna: The stool-passing has stopped?

Bhakti-caru: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Well that's good. Better that you don't drink any more tonight, Srila Prabhupada, except a little bit of misri-jala or some little bit. Then by tomorrow you should be more normal again. Anyway, our activities are going on-parikrama, kirtana, Bhagavatam.

Prabhupada: Can I go to Calcutta?

Tamala Krsna: Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but... I mean, just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don't have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there's so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can't see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kaviraja is going to come. I have faith in Satadhanya Maharaja. I think this is simply Krsna's test for him. I think the kaviraja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kaviraja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you...

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: ...you know, we go back with him to Calcutta and Mayapur. That would be very nice. Of course, he has to first of all come here. I've seen things like this happen before in India, Srila Prabhupada. I mean India is the kind of place where...

Bhakti-caru: It's difficult.

Tamala Krsna: It's difficult. You could drop out of communication for a day. It's very possible that that can happen. It's just a very strange kind of place to communicate and to travel in.

Bhakti-caru: Another thing is that I think this twelve o'clock flight, the noon flight, is not a direct flight. It's a Caravelle that hops, say, from Calcutta, Benares, Allahabad, Lucknow, Delhi.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. So how many hours could that be?

Bhakti-caru: Five, six hours. Takes a long time. And it's not as fast as Boeing.

Tamala Krsna: That means it would arrive at 6:30 or 7:00. I think that by tomorrow noon, if they didn't come, then we would have to say that the matter has become hopeless for them coming. And really it's a fact, Srila Prabhupada, that you've been resting today without taking any medicine is not a bad thing, you know.

Bhakti-caru: And the passing stool has stopped.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, that stopped. That's the main thing. That was the disturbance-the stool was passing. [pause] So many people are coming to the temple here, Srila Prabhupada. Many pilgrims. The temple is full of people all the time. Lots of pilgrims coming. Devotees were saying that in other temples there's not so much activity as here. Krsna-Balarama are attracting all of the people of the land. Everyone is attracted to Them. But it seems like Radha-Syamasundara are equally popular. People like Radha-Krsna very much, and especially in Vrndavana. But Krsna-Balarama is unique. I hear them exclaiming. They are at once surprised and pleased to see the two brothers together.

Bhakti-caru: And the srhgara is so unique here. It's the best.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, everyone says the srhgara is the best. But for flowers we have not yet the best. So we have to make that. Bhavananda Maharaja was suggesting a program, Srila Prabhupada. He was suggesting that in that open land on the side of the gurukula, that we could build a prasadam pavilion, and we could serve the public every day free prasadam at noon time. That might become very popular in Vrndavana. Ḍal and chapatis. All the sadhus would come. I don't know if it's a good idea, but he was suggesting.

Prabhupada: Good idea. Very good idea.

Nayanabhirama: We used to serve them khicuri in the morning. Then they discontinued.

Tamala Krsna: I mean, so many pilgrims come, and there are already so many sadhus living in Vrndavana. This would make our temple very, very popular additionally, even more popular than now. So many pilgrims come. I see them. And they're farmers and things, you know. And if we gave that, probably they would be inclined..., even some of the farmers would bring a little of their..., you know, thinking to offer something also to the Deities, because they would see that we were giving things.

Prabhupada: If you distribute prasada, there will be no scarcity of participants. Bhata chaḍale kakera abhava nei.

Tamala Krsna: What does that mean, Srila Prabhupada? What does that...?

Bhakti-caru: "If you scatter rice, then there's no dearth of crows." [laughs]

Tamala Krsna: "No dearth of crows."

Svarūpa Damodara: They'll come by the bunches.

Tamala Krsna: It seems like there's a Bengali proverb for practically everything, Srila Prabhupada. [laughter]

Prabhupada: Eta bhahga bahga-desa tabu rahge bhara. Explain this.

Bhakti-caru: That "Bengal has been divided into so many different parts, but still it's full of rasas and humor."

Prabhupada: Bengali people are easy-going. So therefore they can manufacture all these humors. [laughter]

Tamala Krsna: Would your Guru Maharaja tell a lot of Bengali proverbs, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm. I learned from him. [laughter]

Tamala Krsna: You once said that he liked you very much, 'cause you were also a Calcutta boy, Calcutta born. [break]

Prabhupada: ...[indistinct] has money.

Tamala Krsna: Actually, I started to have a talk with him about the...

Prabhupada: You write. "You are intelligent. I cannot do anything. I only want..."

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that point.

Prabhupada: [crying] I am very poor man, and somehow or other, I built up. And still in my...

Kaviraja Damodara Prasada Sastri]: Obeisances.

Prabhupada: Aiye. Aiye. [Transl. Come in, Come in.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. We are little late, vilamvam sanjatam.]

Tamala Krsna: [whispering] Get Bhakti-caru.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Do you have Makara-dhvaja?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Yes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Give me and save my life.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Certainly, you will live. I have very good quality Makara-dhvaja.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I had a dream. I saw, Ramanuja Sampradaya Vaisnava, Makara-dhvaja, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He is an exalted Vaisnava. He is an incarnation of God, Caitanya Mahaprabhu. You are also the best of the devotees coming from His sampradaya.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. My Guru Maharaja's order, you preach. So preaching is going on widely.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Going on very nicely.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Preaching is going on, but some more work still need to be accomplished. So if you save me...]

Kaviraja: [Transl. That you alone can do it.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I am ready to do it. I have travelled all over the world in every town and village. That's why all these people have joined.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Yes. They are working very hard. In Calcutta there is already, in India, if in the western countries there is so much preaching then gradually it will spread in India also.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You help me.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Surely I will help you Maharaja.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is your good name?]

Kaviraja: Damodara Prasada.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Damodara Prasada. You understand, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu gestured in a dream that you have Makara-dhvaja and I should take it.]

Kaviraja:

Prabhupada: [Transl. You do as you feel right.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. What is the problem now? Are you passing Urine properly?]

Adri-dharana: [translating:] What is the actual problems?

Tamala Krsna: The problems are that... The biggest problem...

Prabhupada: [Transl. You check my pulse.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Did you check his urine? Do you have any report? Nothing.]

Adri-dharana: [translating:] Any test on the urine?

Tamala Krsna: Where is the urine report? [indistinct] urine report. They sent.

Adri-dharana: Where's the descriptions? [background discussion as they try to find]

Tamala Krsna: Where is Bhakti-caru? [break]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Show me your tongue Maharaja. Take it out little more. That's okay. Let me see your legs.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where exactly do you live in Calcutta?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I have a dispensery called Sri Ramanuja Ayurveda Bhavan.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Kalakar Street. Previously in Mandira I was a Vaidya in the Charitable dispensary of the Banger's. After working there for two years, now last twenty-five years I have opened my own dispensary.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Banger told me about you.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I see. I worked at Bangerji's place before. He is a staunch devotee of yours.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If you can help me to live then I can do some more work.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Since how long does Maharaja have this swelling?]

Bhakti-caru: Since when is that dropsy, he said.

Tamala Krsna: The dropsy is more than one year.

Prabhupada: No, one year... Less.

Tamala Krsna: Well, I mean, I asked Hari-sauri. He said that that swelling has been there for a long time, Srila Prabhupada. I've seen it for ages...

Kaviraja: [Transl. Since how long do you have this swelling Maharaja?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Maximum six months.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Six months. When you started having this swelling, did you ever notice any blood, pus or burning sensation while passing urine?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Nothing like that.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. While passing, sometimes urine stops?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, it was stopping due to the contraction of the skin of the reproductive organ. So I went to London and had surgery. Now it is alright.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. There was no other complain?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No complain, now…]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Was there any blood in the urine?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They say there was some last one or two days.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. When? From three, four days?]

Bhakti-caru: [translating] Last three, four days, any blood in the urine?

Tamala Krsna: No.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Not before. Was there any pus?]

Tamala Krsna: No.

Kaviraja: [Transl. What is the quantity of his urine?]

Tamala Krsna: Give him the book. He'll see the quantity.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Is everything written down? The medicines he is taking nowadays, are they Allopathic?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. No medicines.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He doesn't take any medicine?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Allopathic medicines are failure.]

Bhavananda: Tell him when the urine was bloody...

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I will explain to you. Yesterday he passed less urine. At night twelve o'clock he passed 50cc, six o'clock 75cc, ten-thirty in the morning 50cc, two-thirty 50cc, nine o'clock 50cc and eleven o'clock 50cc. That means all together 325cc. Day before yesterday 375cc.]

Kaviraja: Okay.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Before that 290cc, and before that 435cc. 190cc, 365cc...]

Kaviraja: Okay.

Bhavananda: When was the urine was bloody? One week ago?

Prabhupada: [Transl. You try to refine my urine. Let me get back my appetite.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I will check your stomach.]

Bhavananda: When was it?

Bhakti-caru: That was about ten days back.

Bhavananda: Tell him.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. About ten days ago there was a trace of blood in his urine.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Wasn't it?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Urine color was pink.]

Bhavananda: And tell him that Prabhupada took allopathic medicine last week. He asked for information.

Bhakti-caru: Let him see it first.

Tamala Krsna: Can Prabhupada lie on his back?

Kaviraja: [Transl. Maharaja, do you feel any pain here, where I press?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not particularly. To devotees: Who has come with him?]

Satadhanya: This is Adri-dharana dasa, Srila Prabhupada. I told you about him, that he's collecting very big in Calcutta, making many members. So he has come with the kaviraja personally.

Prabhupada: He belongs to which province?

Adri-dharana: I was born in Bombay, but my parents are from Sindh.

Satadhanya: Sindhi.

Tamala Krsna: But he's born in Bombay.

Bhakti-caru: And he joined in Florida, yes?

Tamala Krsna: International.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Do you give him salt to eat?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. No.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Since how long he is not taking any salt?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Long time, four months. At least three months.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Do you have any urine report or something prior to four months?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Four months...] About six months back we had a report.

Tamala Krsna: Urine specimen report?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. This is the... He's asking about that time, four or five months ago.

Bhavananda: This one is from...

Bhakti-caru: Yes, this is very recent.

Tamala Krsna: That's better.

Kaviraja: [Transl. How much water does he drink?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Water no. Now he only drinks fruit juice.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He doesn't drink water?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Little bit like 100cc.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Do you boil the water and give?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. So far we have given him Gahga water.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. What about food? His diet?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Diet, only fruit juice like 700cc, 800cc or sometimes 1 liter a day. Fruit Juice and water mixed together.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I see. What else? Do you give milk?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. No. We don't give milk now. By giving milk he gets mucus. So we stopped it.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. What else you give, butter milk or something?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yesterday we requested him for butter milk and he said no.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No taste for anything.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. No taste. Did you check his pressure? How much was it?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Pressure 150/80.]

Kaviraja: 150. Good.

Bhakti-caru: Pressure is good.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Heart is also good.]

Bhakti-caru: When Dr. Ghosh came, that other Dr. Ghosh came... [Transl. About ten or twelve days ago his pressure was 180 and 80.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. 180 and 80. Okay. Have you ever given him Lasix or something?]

Bhakti-caru: No.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Now also does he take?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Not now.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Before he used to take.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yes. About six months ago, he used to take. Now last four months it is stopped. We gave Lasix whenever urination stopped. Sometimes urine would stop.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I think he had the prostate problem from before. By seeing, it seems he has problem in paurusa-granthi or prostate. His kidney is also not in good condition.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. He has infection in the kidney.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. All this swelling is due to the Vrikka or kidney.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I see.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Maharaja, How you are talking about makara-dhvaja? In this condition makara-dhvaja cannot be given. I will give you another makara-dhvaja by which you will become cured. Medicines containing mercury or any arsenic will be poison for you.]

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Bhakti-caru: He's saying that in this condition, Prabhupada can't take makara-dhvaja. That any medicine that contains mercury and arsenic is poison to him.

Bhavananda: That's what Prabhupada said.

Tamala Krsna: That is a fact. He found that to be true.

Kaviraja: [Transl. There are so many medicines. I will control everything through medicine. It will take time. His liver is not good. Liver function is not proper. There is swelling in the colon. Colon is not good, kidney is not good, but I will control everything. It will take some time. Had this case been reffered to me one and half months ago, I would have made a lot of progress by now. But still by the mercy Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu everything will be alright.]

Bhakti-caru: He said had he started treating Srila Prabhupada a month and a half ago, it would have been a lot better.

Prabhupada: [Transl. So what are you going to do now?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Pardon?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You live in Calcutta, so do I have to go there?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Who? Me?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. He is asking whether he will have to go there.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Him? In ten, fifteen days his condition will improve. Then either he will come to Calcutta or we will arrange everything here. Now I have checked you thoroughly. Now I can discuss in the phone from Calcutta and understand everything. There is no need to see him.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Srila Prabhupada had a programme of going to Mayapur.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. First let his condition improve. But in this present situation I cannot permit him to go.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. First you cure him, then he can go.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He will be alright. Now walking, eating, moving and everything else will gradually become normal.]

Bhakti-caru: He's saying that after ten days Prabhupada's condition will be completely improved.

Kaviraja: [Transl. I thought, I didn't know you have some trouble in the kidney, if you had general health problem then I would have administered some rejuvenating therapy. The best medicine for old-age is, yat jara, the best Ayurvedic physician is Charakaji, there is no one equal to him in Ayurvedic treatment, he writes: yat jara vyadhi vidhvamsi, that which destroys old-age and disease, is called rasayana or rejuvenating therapy. So first I will cure you then I will use rejuvenating therapy. You will be cured. There is no doubt about it. Besides, you follow proper diet. Those patients who do not follow proper diet, they don't get cured.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As you advice I will follow.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Slowly, slowly you will, I will prepare a chart for you about which medicine should you take, what diet should you take and how you should take them. For now I will make this arrangement. Then for your kidney, I will arrange a medicine called Vrkka sanjivani ark. In Ayurveda the kidney is called Vrkka. Muslims call it Gurda and English doctors call it Kidney. To repair the kidney there is an ark consisting of twenty-five to thirty medicines. That medicine I will send for you. You can drink it half a bottle every day. It is made in Ganges water. All medicines at my place are prepared in Gahga jala. They are made in a pure state.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Will you stay here for sometime?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Pardon?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Will you stay here for sometime?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. As far as staying is concerned, Maharaja, your illness is such that it is not going to be cured in a few days. But one thing is sure that all your swelling will subside. Gradually your liver, intestine and over all health will improve. You will know, you will understand in two days my health is improving.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Now you stay here for a few days.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. See, Tomorrow I will be here for sure as I have to arrange everything for your treatment. After that, I have full faith by checking your heart that you will become alright. If a man is healthy and fat but his heart is weak then we give no value to his health. Your heart condition is very sound therefore I hope that you will regain your health.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So you start your treatment.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. You are talking about hunger, within ten to fifteen days you will feel very hungry. You will have appetite for food from within.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then….]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Now whatever food they bring to you, you don't feel like eating. How is your stool, Maharaja?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What stool? If I eat then there will be stool.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Do you feel any constipation? Sometimes you have?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. For stool, we used to give him enema before. Because his stool was hard.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I don't eat. So how there will be stool?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. And after taking Makara-dhvaja he started having loose motion. The color of the stool was little dark.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. How long did you take Makara-dhvaja?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Two days.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. No. How long from before?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. He didn't take before.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Who prescribed Makara-dhvaja?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. It is like this, one local Kaviraja was treating him. He was preparing Makara-dhvaja.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. But we cannot give him Makara-dhvaja at all. How did he give? He must not be a Kaviraja then. In this condition...]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. That Kaviraja also said Prabhupada's condition is not suitable for Makara-dhvaja.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Yes, not suitable. Anyway I have Makara-dhvaja with me which is twelve times more potent. It took at least one and half months to prepare. It's a very good medicine. But I cannot give this to Maharaja. It is like a Brahmastra, but it is harmful for you. Until we cleanse the kidney, this will jam his kidney. Mercury will jam his kidney.]

Bhakti-caru: Explaining: Makara-dhvaja is a brahmastra. For Prabhupada it's not good.

Kaviraja: [Transl. First of all we cleanse your kidney.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As you advise, I will do like that. What about your meal?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Now I won't take anything. After checking your heart I am very pleased that your body will again start functioning properly.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You offer him milk.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yes, Srila Prabhupada?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. What about your sleep at night Maharaja? Is it less?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sleep, sometimes I don't get and sometimes I get.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Previously you used to stay awake at night?]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Kaviraja: [Transl. I see, That's why?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I used to write books. I have written many books.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. He has translated Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya-caritamrta and Bhagavad-gita. Almost whole night he stayed awake for this.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. The point is that you have never cared for your body.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Never cared.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Anyway, now we will try to keep your body healthy. Maharaja, you have to care for your body. Without the body no mission can be accomplished. sarira madhyam khalu dharma sadhyam [Kumara-sambhava 5.33]-religious principles must be cultivated by the help of the body.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As you say…]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Maharaja, while lying down you can carry out your preaching work. This work will go on and for that your presence is very important. And for that you need to nourish this broken house of yours, your body.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As you advise, and Mahaprabhu's will.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Everything is Lord's mercy. Man is just an instrument. It's the Lord who takes the initiative and who inspires to act.]

Prabhupada: So, you make the chart, and you mix, and you follow. [Transl. I wanted, you live far away from here, whenever is required how can we have your darsana?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I will make some arrangement. I will arrange a representative of mine who will take care of you. That I will arrange.]

Prabhupada: Okay.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Whatever Caitanya Mahaprabhu desires, that will happen. yad bhavyam tat bhavisyati-whatever is destined to happen will happen. There is no doubt about it. Now you take rest. Tomorrow morning I will see you and arrange everything.]

Prabhuada: [Transl. That is good. Arrange for his room, milk etc.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yes Srila Prabhupada.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I would have come earlier, I hired a Taxi but it took a long time. My plane arrived at five o' clock. Taxiwala took some extra time as the car broke down. I wanted to arrive as soon as possible. I thought, come quickly and see Maharaja and have his darsana. Now I have seen you and am satisfied.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Jagadisa. Your name is Jagadisa?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Damodara prasada. dama udara yasya-Damodara, whose belly is bound by a rope. Dasanudasa-servant of the servant. Maharaja, ye kantha lagna tulasi nalinaksa mala/ ye bahumūla paricihnita sahkha cakra/ ye jihva lalata phalake lasat urdhapunḍra/ te vaisnavebhyonama asu pavitrayanti. The devotees purify the whole world, as they themselves are pure.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Which province do you belong to?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Rajasthan.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Rajasthan.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. My father was a vaisnava. He cooked his own food. He performed purascarana ritual three times for his Gayatri mantras. In the third time, the personified Gayatri appeared herself. While traveling he would drink water in Calcutta and then again drink in Rajasthan.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I see.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I cannot do anything. I have adopted this profession of a physician, I visit patients in the day time, and night time also. So how many times will I take bath? I cannot do like him. But I serve his worshipable Lords Laddu Gopala and Salagrama. Today there was no question of my leaving Calcutta as I had two, three serious cases. That Singhania, he said, you are here because of money. But you are going away to see svamiji and this is a great sense of duty on your part towards a patient. I finished my work in the dispensary at 10.30 A.M. It was hard to get a flight ticket. It was your mercy that I got a ticket. Therefore whatever the Supreme Lord does is best for everybody.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. to Adri-dharana: Did you pay for his ticket?]

Bhakti-caru: To Adri-dharana: Did you pay for the tickets?

Adri-dharana: Yes, yes, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Whatever you say I will do. Caitanya Mahaprabhu.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Everything will be alright. You are all powerful. The human beings have to face the reactions of karma performed by the body.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The point is I accepted so many disciples and I had to take their sinful reactions.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. That is true.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is my understanding.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. paropakaraya satam vibhute, this body is meant for doing welfare to others. Not for one's own selfish interest.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I didn't care for myself.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. This body is perishable anyway. adyante satante va, it will be finished either today or after hundred years. This is the nature of the body. But what you have done, nobody else can do.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How old are you?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Pardon?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is your age?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I am 51 years old.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How many children?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. 3 sons and 1 daughter. Everything is fine. They are happy. In this material world who is anybody's child, who is anybody's daughter, who is anybodys wife? Everything is arranged by providence.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That is true.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Things are okay and peaceful. The eldest son has resently passed both as Astahga Doctor and Ayurvedic Doctor. Where I studied in Jaipur, I also studied Allopath side by side, but my English subject was very poor. In sanskrt I can speak for four hours. I have studied the entire Srimad-Bhagavatam original. Also I have studied Puranas, Mahabharata, and am a Sastri in sanskrt grammer. I am an Acarya of Ayurveda both from Jaipur and Delhi. In the beginning I had strong faith in Allopath. Later I got a case of Tuberclosis in the kidney. Vrkka-ksaya. It took me two years to treat and cure it. I understood that yat iha asti tad anyatra na tat kvacit, what is in our culture, in our Ayurveda, is not found anywhere in the world.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not found.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. This is my experience. I use only pure Ayurvedic medicines and I get success. You will be cured by Ayurvedic medicine. This weakness will gradually go away. These bones, gradually muscles will build up, blood will increase. As liver starts to function properly, as kidney starts to work properly, kidney pushes out the stool and other toxins from the body. And liver spreads it. So gradually you will be alright. By the way, how old are you? Above 80?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. According to Horoscope the duration of life is finished. But whatever the Supreme Lord desires.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I will tell you something, you do not know, in my village there is a pujari who was told by an astrologer that he has a deadly period. He had a chronic disorder of the bowels. I went to see him. I prescribed him parpati medicine. But he said, my horoscope says I will die in the month of Kartik. He used to pass stool ten to twenty times a day. I gave him parpati and he lived for five years. Finally he died of heart fail. Therefore sometimes due to wrong calculation of Horoscope it happens like that. There might be some differences in time. One who knows to read a chart correctly his prediction is right. But by seeing the condition of your body I cannot say so. Had I noticed something serious in your body, I would have informed it. The body will go one day. Not mine alone, everyone's body will be gone. Considering your physical, heart condition I hope your health will improve completely.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Let us see.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Above all Caitanya Mahaprabhu is there, He is the actual doer.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You explain everything in detail.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. I will explain. Should I go now? Alright Maharaja, see you tomorrow morning.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Okay.]

[kaviraja leaves] [break]

Prabhupada: Hmm? What do you think?

Tamala Krsna: Well, it's hard to... I couldn't follow everything because it was in Hindi.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: He, erm, he talks a lot. Of course, Marwaris always talk a lot. He's a Marwari, so they always talk like that. We'll have to see how his medicine works, Srila Prabhupada. There's no way to tell; we are always getting fooled. But first impression simply by seeing is very difficult in this age. I would rather...

Prabhupada: No, this is the last. We have tried. So, let us follow him.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. Definitely we should try his medicine.

Prabhupada: Adri?

Adri-dharana: Yes, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: So, what is that? Huh?

Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: You give him some hint. He was going to talk, and you stopped him.

Tamala Krsna: Going to what?

Prabhupada: [Transl. Does he have a big practice in Calcutta?]

Tamala Krsna: [to Adri-dharana:] Does he have a big practice in Calcutta?

Adri-dharana: Yes, very big practice. He is known for his quality, mixing of drugs.

Tamala Krsna: Accha. Big practice in Calcutta.

Adri-dharana: On the plane he met another doctor, and he chastised him for making diluted drugs. So it seems...

Prabhupada: Huh? Sastri?

Tamala Krsna: He says that on the plane he met another doctor, so he chastised that other doctor for making diluted drugs. He's known for his upstanding qualities in making..., the mixing of drugs purely.

Adri-dharana: Everything he makes, he claims that he makes by the hand. And he's also recommended by another Ramanuja Ayur-veda. Actually, we had gone to see him there, and he said to approach this man. He said this is the best man in the field.

Prabhupada: Who is that man?

Tamala Krsna: Who is the other man?

Adri-dharana: That man, Govardhanji, he is on [indistinct] Cotton Street, and he was recommended by L. N. Bangur.

Tamala Krsna: Who, the other one?

Adri-dharana: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: But he would not come.

Adri-dharana: No, he said that "You need the best man for this," and he said..., he recommended him.

Tamala Krsna: That other one, Govardhanji, he was a Ramanuja?

Adri-dharana: Also Ramanuja, but not so staunch as this man.

Tamala Krsna: L. N. Bangur recommended another one, but that other one, when Adri-dharana went there, the other one recommended this one, saying this one is better. And Adri-dharana said this one is more staunch.

Adri-dharana: And when I came he was very..., he had many good Vaisnava qualities. Immediately he said, "This is for a Guruji, for a devotee. I am not take anything. I'll do all my services free."

Tamala Krsna: That's a good quality.

Adri-dharana: Actually, when he flies and...

Prabhupada: So, this is a last resort, whatever it may be. Is that all right?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Tamala Krsna: Of course, we don't mind going on looking one after another for...

Prabhupada: Huh. No more. No more trial. Adri-dharana?

Adri-dharana: Yes, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: What do you think?

Adri-dharana: About this man?

Prabhupada: Yes. Follow strictly.

Tamala Krsna: Do you agree that we should follow strictly his advice?

Adri-dharana: From my experience I think he's a very good man. He's a Vaisnava.

Tamala Krsna: We certainly have... We might as well try. We've tried everyone else.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: So let us try.

Bhavananda: He did agree with your own diagnosis, Prabhupada. He said makara-dhvaja at this point would be poison, and today you said that it was poison.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhavananda: So that was...

Prabhupada: Mmm.

Satadhanya: [whispering] Does he look like the man in the dream?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: Satadhanya asked whether he looks like the man you saw in the dream.

Prabhupada: He has tilaka?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, he has nice tilaka.

Prabhupada: The other man, he has not tilaka?

Tamala Krsna: Govardhanji has tilaka?

Adri-dharana: No.

Tamala Krsna: No.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Adri-dharana: Also Govardhanji was not very..., extremely helpful. He said he would not come to Vrndavana. He said he would not...

Tamala Krsna: Now this man said in fifteen days Prabhupada would be better?

Adri-dharana: He said there will be improvement. In a few days, two or three days, there will be improvement.

Tamala Krsna: So he's staying for two or three days at least? Or is he going to stay one day and leave?

Adri-dharana: So he is not... His mind is not made up. I'll have to talk to him and ask him to stay longer.

Tamala Krsna: Let him first of all prescribe...

Adri-dharana: Medicine.

Tamala Krsna: But he should stay to see what the effect of the medicine is. Supposing he prescribes, and it has a reverse reaction? Then if he's gone, how will he see anything?

Prabhupada: No, whatever chart he has made, he'll follow.

Tamala Krsna: Well, we can follow, but if it has a bad reaction, you'll want to change it, Srila Prabhupada. You can't say that we'll follow blindly. If something is given and it doesn't work properly, you'll want to have it adjusted. Better if he stays here for some time with you.

Adri-dharana: At least some days.

Tamala Krsna: At least for a few days he should stay here and see how the medicine is working.

Prabhupada: Hmm. First of all let him make chart.

Tamala Krsna: All right.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, of course. No, that's right. First he should make prescription, and then we'll see.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: So Adri, you should go with him. You are staying in that room with him?

Adri-dharana: Yes, I'm staying with him.

Tamala Krsna: So why don't you go? I told him to go, be with the kaviraja.

Prabhupada: Mm.

Tamala Krsna: He's staying in the same room with him.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's nice.

Tamala Krsna: They gave him the governor's room, that number thirty-one, the big room. Srila Prabhupada, may I talk to you about Vrindavan Chandra?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: I had a little talk with him, you know.

Prabhupada: Ha.

Tamala Krsna: 'Cause you're giving him about... He gets about 800 rupees a month from the BBT for travel expenses.

Prabhupada: Mm.

Tamala Krsna: So I have some experience with myself as organizing books distribution.

Prabhupada: Hmm, hmm.

Tamala Krsna: So when we would spend with our Radha-Damodara party, we used to spend about five thousand dollars a month for travel expenses, but for that five thousand dollars we would make a hundred thousand dollars.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: In other words, twenty times whatever we spent on traveling...

Prabhupada: And if he does not give substantial order, then stop it.

Tamala Krsna: Well, he's not giving any order. I mean, the point I made to him was that...

Prabhupada: Then don't give.

Tamala Krsna: I told him, "Vrindavan, you're getting 800 rupees, so for that 800 rupees you must be booking ten to twenty thousand rupees' worth of orders."

Prabhupada: So if he's not giving, then stop it.

Tamala Krsna: So I said to him, "If you're getting ten or twenty thousand, either..., two things are happening: either you're not getting the orders-then what is the use of spending 800 rupees?"

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: "Or the other thing is that you're getting the orders but you're not giving any money to the BBT."

Prabhupada: Then let them be satisfied with stipends, two hundred, three hundred, live in that house, and then like that, nothing wrong.

Tamala Krsna: I have no objection to paying him if he was doing business, but...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: ...I just see he's not doing it.

Prabhupada: I fully depend on your discrimination. I..., if he's not giving bill, then just stop it.

Tamala Krsna: I told him that "If you do business, you take the 800 rupees, but doing business means you'll pay the BBT some bills."

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: "If you're not paying any bills it means you're not doing business." He is...

Prabhupada: Very carefully the... I want they may not...

Tamala Krsna: Squander.

Prabhupada: ...suffer for want of stipend and place. That's all.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Do like that, and I fully depend on you. If he's not giving business, what is the use of?

Tamala Krsna: He is spen... I think he's just taking the money and using it for some other business. He can't be spending 800 rupees and not doing any business.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: And if he's spending the 800 for traveling and not booking order, then what is the use of spending the 800 rupees?

Prabhupada: Yes. Tell him frankly.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Prabhupada: Then stop everything.

Tamala Krsna: I told him. I said, "You think about it tonight, and tomorrow we'll talk again."

Prabhupada: Hmm. Hmm. Do everything very cautiously.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: It is not that out of affection we shall squander money.

Tamala Krsna: Mm.

Prabhupada: So use your best intelligence, and if he has not given, then stop everything. Let them have two hundred fifty per month per head and live in that house. That's all. This is my final.

Tamala Krsna: Two hundred fifty plus we have to fix seven hundred fifty.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Tamala Krsna: For seven years.

Prabhupada: That is after.

Tamala Krsna: Seven years.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: That is after.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Not now.

Tamala Krsna: No, no.

Prabhupada: Not a single paisa more than two hundred fifty. Only my wife may get five hundred, that's all.

Tamala Krsna: She's getting a thousand, actually.

Prabhupada: Hmm. [pause] So take his chart and try to follow. This is the last resort. That's all.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Well, don't say it is the last. We're not going to..., ever going to give up hope.

Prabhupada: Hmm. He appears to be hopeful.

Tamala Krsna: He seems very hopeful. His attitude appeared hopeful.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: They all say that your heart is very strong, therefore what is the question of dying? They all say that point. Their whole contention is on the heart, that because the heart is strong, they say there's no question of dying. And actually, that agrees with the astrologers. None of the astrologers say you will die now. They all say it's a difficult time, but they never say that you will die now.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: They all say that you'll overcome this.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Tamala Krsna: And your disciples all say that you will overcome. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Heart is strong, then where is the question of tuberculosis? [laughs] Wrong present[?].

Tamala Krsna: What Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Somebody said tuberculosis.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, that was that allopathic Dr. Gopal.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Satadhanya: He was guessing.

Tamala Krsna: Foolish.

Satadhanya: He was just guessing.

Tamala Krsna: He was guessing, but he gave the recommendation for a strong anti-tubercular medicine.

Prabhupada: No, no. Therefore I am not going to.

Tamala Krsna: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally failure for you. There's no question of going back to them in any case.

Prabhupada: He has already concluded something, and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.

Tamala Krsna: And strong medicine he prescribed.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: He would have created havoc with his testing.

Prabhupada: I am not going to die... I will die, I will remain in his treatment, this kaviraja. [quiet laughter] The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, they make you... If you don't have the disease, then they'll make sure you get it, simply to be right.

Prabhupada: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good [indistinct], that's all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I'll not object; I will follow. Is that all right?

Devotees: Yes, Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: Whatever you tell us is all right, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hmm. And from Vrindavan, if he's not getting business, stop all, everything.

Tamala Krsna: He's not getting business. He told me he's having bad luck; he cannot get any business.

Prabhupada: Oh, so if he has to do business, he has to pay cash and he'll get fifty percent.

Tamala Krsna: If he was getting the business, he would have paid your BBT some money.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: In over a year he has paid two or three thousand rupees. That's not business. He's taking 800 rupees a month for so long for travel expenses, and he's paid maybe two or three thousand rupees total. I mean it's crazy business.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: Anybody can see it's not good business.

Prabhupada: So, stop it all.

Tamala Krsna: I talked with him in a nice way, though. I said, "Now you tell me, Vrindavan." I gave him the points. I said, "So you think about it tonight, and you let me know tomorrow." I'm talking in a nice way with him, because I feel that in... I want them to be happy. I can see they're not so intelligent, so they should not suffer.

Prabhupada: At least five thousand rupees' business must be given; otherwise stop.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Immediately there should be business. If a man spends nearly a thousand rupees for traveling every month, he must be making fifteen, twenty thousand rupees. But he is not giving any money at all to the BBT. So where's the one thousand rupees going that he's given? He couldn't be using it for...

Prabhupada: So we have given him chance, and now stop it.

Tamala Krsna: You've given him travel money now for about two years. And he hasn't given any money to the BBT out of it, so I, I really question it. I'll talk with him further.

Prabhupada: You deal.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I know how to do this, because I was doing the sahkirtana, so I know what should come from the money he's spending. It's the same idea as anywhere in the world. You spend, it's business, business, whether it's dollars or rupees. I'll try...

Prabhupada: That man who has kept, he's working as assistant, he is plundering him.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I think so.

Prabhupada: He's a foolish man.

Tamala Krsna: Well, the thing is, Srila Prabhupada, he's not that intelligent. He's going to be plundered, I mean that's the unfortunate part. That's why we just have to help them, and at the same time not let them suffer.

Prabhupada: No, try to help, but not squander.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, that's the point.

Prabhupada: I give you full freedom. As you like. But arrange that they may remain in that house, lifelong, and get each two hundred and fifty. Only my wife five hundred, that's all.

Tamala Krsna: What happens after, when they start getting seven hundred fifty rupees after seven years? They may squander a little bit. But we'll be...

Prabhupada: No, that is already invested. I read government paper.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Those three things.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Good. When the seven hundred and fifty rupees is put in fixed deposit for them, it's put in their name, so it belongs to them, and we can just tell the bank...

Prabhupada: Then let them...

Tamala Krsna: Let them have it.

Prabhupada: After seven years.

Tamala Krsna: They can have it, even if they...

Prabhupada: ...squander. I don't mind.

Tamala Krsna: All right.

Prabhupada: Our money is not touched.

Tamala Krsna: No, it's not.

Prabhupada: That's all.

Tamala Krsna: We can only exercise a certain amount of control; the rest they have to also have some control.

Prabhupada: Our capital is not touched.

Tamala Krsna: No, it's not touched.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: Anyway, I understand how to deal with them. We have to be like their guardians.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: That is the point. We have to see that they are taken care of and try to help them to live properly.

Prabhupada: You are so intelligent boy, you can control them; otherwise stop.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. So you try to rest now, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hmm. So thank you very much, Adri-dharana.

Satadhanya: He went back to his room.

Tamala Krsna: He worked well today.

Prabhupada: I was surprised that in morning he said, "I'm coming." Anyway, better late than never.

Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Jaya. All glories.

Tamala Krsna: All glories to you. [break] ...were saying.

Svarūpa Damodara: Some of our men went to the Delhi University. They also met the Dean of Sciences, Delhi University. In fact they told him..., he told them that there is news release. So in fact he gave the cutting of the newspaper to them. So they have read. So it seems to me that there's some good publicity. [break] Most of them knew that we were coming from the Hare Krsna movement.

Prabhupada: A new light.

Svarūpa Damodara: Yes. There's going to be an international symposium in Madras early next year about the..., what they call complex light molecules in evolution, and there's going to be some Nobel Prize-winning scientists. So we'll be writing a letter to present our paper in that symposium. That's first week of January next year. I think if we can present one paper, that will be, I think, quite good. [break]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I think you had no problem at night?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. No, nothing. What problem. Did he sleep last night?]

Adri-dharana: Did you have good rest last night, Srila Prabhupada?

Kaviraja: [Transl. Did you sleep at night?]

Prabhupada: At the end of the night.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Alright. In the morning also you had little sleep? Did you pass stool or not? Latrine?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I didn't eat anything. Just now I took some Horlicks. I passed urine.] What is the quantity?

Bhakti-caru: Of the Horlicks, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. In the morning he took 150cc Horlicks and after that he passed urine 100cc.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. How many times in a day you give him Horlicks?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Today I gave him. Yesterday morning also I gave him little. Let us see how it suits him?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Horlicks will be good for him.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. It will be good. Today I will see how it goes and then from tomorrow I will add some milk in the Horlicks and give him.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He has no appetite, otherwise he could have taken little bit of grain like daliya made of wheat.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I see.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Do you know Daliya?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Today he wants to take some ladies finger he said.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. No ladies finger, give him Lauki or bottle gourd.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. He doesn't eat anything. So he wanted to...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Okay, give me lauki.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Lauki is good, Parbal is good.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. The thing is he doesn't eat.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He has no appetite now. As he gets back his appetite his power of digestion will also increase. Let me see his hand. Yellowish. Wherever there is swelling you apply there. You write down Narkachur and Sonth. You make very fine powder of both these items and mix them. Wherever he has got swelling you apply that powder there. There is one oil called Suskamūladi oil.

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. We have Suskamūladi oil.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. You have? Do you apply?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. We don't apply.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Keep on applying.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Let me show you.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. This Vrkka sanjivani ark and Punarnava ark, this you give him. It is made with distilled water. Taste is okay. It will cleanse the kidney. You understand? During the day you give him plain water from time to time and in between you give him this ark. Atleast half a bottle he should be taking daily. This will increase the quantity of his urine. And his medicine, I will give four medicines. He sleeps, I think he sleeps less from before. So whatever sleep he gets now is okay. As his health improves, he will sleep more. You make a decoction as I write it down for you. You take 25 gms of decoction and mix it with 200gms water and keep it overnight. In the morning you boil it slowly until it reduces to 25 gms, then you strain it with a fresh cloth. You understand everything? After straining you throw away the herbs and give this decoction followed by the number one medicine.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. How to make the decoction?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. It will contain six, seven ingredients which I will write down and you get it from the market. Is there a grocery shop in Vrndavana?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Yes, there will be in Vrndavana.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. If there is in Vrndavana then I will go there and you send somebody with me. I will check and bring them. There are so many fake things in the market. That you give two times a day, morning 7 o'clock and afternoon 5 o'clock. You write down, number one medicine 7 A.M. & 5 P.M. Number two medicine, 12 noon and 8 P.M. with ark. Like this four times he will take medicine. This medicine will help improve his kidney, liver and give him strength. Also something for getting appetite is included in this. For one week, we have to see that the quantity of his urine should increase.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Before also the other Kaviraja had given him Punarnava leaves juice and white parpati for swelling.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Punarnava root works better than it's leaves. Do you get Punarnava here?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. We used to get them three four months ago.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. It is available everywhere.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Now we can get.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Now I will give Punarnava ark, Gokhura ark and Vrkka sanjivani for kidney. Punarnava helps reduce the swelling.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I see. Before also his swelling reduced by this.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. With the mid-day medicine, Punarna roots, Makoi.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. What is Makoi?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Makoi is a medicinal herb. You take punarnava roots juice and makoi juice half ounce each and give at noon time and at night.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Punarna roots we can get here.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Why don't you call the Kaviraja and I will explain to him everything.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Let us do like this, when you will go to the market I will also come with you.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Because, in my absence if there is any problem he can take care of it. I want to talk and explain the medicines how to give. That will be very nice.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Certainly.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. A local physician can attend him every day. He will take care. He will know the medicines. I will tell him he should make sure that the medicines are continued for ten days as per my instruction. After about fifteen days I will change some medicines for him. When he will start feeling hungry, when the swelling goes down, then I will advice him which medicines are to be added and stopped. When he has appetite, what does he eat? Does he take curd or something?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. That is the big question. He doesn't eat anything.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. He doesn't ask also.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Neither he asks nor he eats.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Swamiji, take little bit of food. If you don't eat how will you go on? If you like, take some Daliya. Do you understand Daliya, made of wheat? If you want you can take some curd. Don't feel like. Then for a few days give him Horlicks. Also prepare some barley water and give him.]

Bhakti-caru: Okay.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Barley is a grain. It is arsa-anna, it is very nutricious. So you give him barley two times a day.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I can mix it with Horlicks.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Yes. Mix and give. The point is more liquids should go in his body.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. As for liquid, about 700cc, 800cc to one liter he drinks every day.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Very good. Of that you give barley two times with Horlicks and other times you give fruit juice like orange juice.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Grapes juice, pomegranate juice, and day before yesterday I gave him apple juice also.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Do you give boiled apple.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. No, apple juice with honey. Orange juice I gave him two days ago.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. You should give him little honey every day. Honey is very good. It makes the heart strong.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. I give honey.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. The decoction I was telling you about, you mix one spoon of honey with it and give him.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Like that I mix two to three spoons of honey with fruit juice.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Honey? Very good. I believe within fifteen days the swelling will go away. In fifteen days the kidney will start functioning properly and...]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Appetite?]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Appetite will come. In three four days he will have appetite.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. That is the biggest question. If he gets back his appetite…]

Kaviraja: [Transl. What is his diet in normal condition?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. When he was well, when he was eating about six months ago he took sabji, dal, one or two chapatis and rice.]

Kaviraja: [Transl. Every day?]

Bhakti-caru: Yes.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Two times? Or he ate only once?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. One time.] To others: How about his food? When he is to eat? What he is to eat?

Kaviraja: [Transl. Does he take milk or something in the evening?]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. In the evening, sometimes milk, sometimes fruit juice. Often he wouldn't eat anything at night.]

Tamala Krsna: Mornings, he used to take. Fruits.

Bhakti-caru: No, he's just asking what the main meal is, anyway.

Kaviraja: [Transl. Alright. Just remember that he should take enough liquid. And when he will have appetite you give him chapati, daliya made of wheat and mixed with milk. He should take cow milk daily.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. Milk.] [end]