Room Conversation

October 29, 1977, Vrndavana
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: To transport the medicine, someone can bring it from Calcutta here.
Tamala Krsna: Or the same things, if the ingredients can be gotten from Delhi or Agra, they can be prepared here. We have Prabhupada's car. We can go.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: It's distilled. He has got to distill the medicine. For that he needs proper apparatus.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He's saying Srila Prabhupada should drink at least a kilo of milk every day.
Tamala Krsna: Whew! If he personally feeds Prabhupada, I can believe that he'll take it.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He said that for ten, fifteen days let him be like this here, and then he'll take him to Mayapura.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: And he can take personal charge.
Tamala Krsna: So now you have to get these medicines.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: Yes. He wants to see the kaviraja also, because he's going to give some instructions to him in case, when he is not here, so that he can... (Hindi) There's a young kaviraja in the Ramanuja...
Tamala Krsna: But that other gentleman will not...
Bhakti-caru: No, no, not him. I'm talking about Sri Rangaji's temple there is a young kaviraja.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: (Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) [break]
Tamala Krsna: So in that way he was thinking to leave, but now he's agreed to stay on for at least five or six days. We convinced him that "You stay here and you take Prabhupada to Mayapura personally." That's what we're pushing for. We explained how all of his patients put together multiplied by one crore cannot equal Your Divine Grace. And he agreed. He said, "That I know." And we explained that... He was quoting from Srimad-Bhagavatam. So we explained how Your Divine Grace was the representative and incarnation of Vyasadeva, and he accepted that. He has very high respect for Vyasadeva and for you because he's seen your books. He knows that you're not ordinary. Then he described what was wrong with you and how he's going to be treating it. Then I was asking him what is his native place. So he's a Marwari. Then he was telling us the native town. And I asked him if he had any charitable dispensary. He said he wouldn't take any money. We were trying to think of different ways to... Anyway, he wouldn't take any money. Then he said... He talked about his father. His father was a very big devotee of Nrsimhadeva. So one day his father plus eleven other Vaisnavas went to Badarikasrama for darsana of the Deities. They were walking, and on the way they were attacked by these baels.(?) They're called baels?
Bhavananda: Aborigines in the north. Very ferocious.
Tamala Krsna: They're ferocious men. So the men said that "Now we will kill you and take your money, plunder you." So his father said, "Well, we will give you whatever we have, but what is the use of killing us?" They said, "No, we are not brahmanas. We are aborigines. So we like to kill also." So then the father said, "Then at least, the king, even if he hangs someone, he gives them five minutes for prayer. So give us five minutes." So then all of the Vaisnavas, they chanted Nrsimhadeva mantras very strongly. And suddenly there was a strong roaring of a lion, and a big ferocious lion leaped into the middle and ate up two of the attackers. And then all of the Vaisnavas, they bowed down at the feet of the lion and they were offering prayers, and the lion went away. So his father... He said that if one has a pure heart, if he's a pure Vaisnava, Krsna can appear. He said in the form of the lion Krsna actually protected them. So he wants to make some charitable dispensary in his home town on behalf of his father. I'm thinking if he cures you we will give him a nice donation towards that charitable dispensary. Then we told him that... We asked him what kind of food does he like. So he told us, so that now we'll make arrangement. We gave him very good food this morning, and we will cook him rutis. Bhakti-caru and another devotee are cooking. So they will cook him fresh vegetables as he likes, according to his taste. And Adri-dharana serves him personally. And then I said also, "While you're here, there's much time. We can take you to the different temples." Because this is the first time he's come to Vrndavana. I said, "Even in the afternoon you can go with Prabhupada's car to Govardhana." He said, "First of all, before darsana, let us do the medicine." So he went with the car. He said, "I will drive the car. I can drive." We said, "We have a driver." He said, "If you don't have a driver, I will drive to get the medicine." So then they went into the city to get..., into Vrndavana to get the necessary medicines. He said very strongly, "What I prescribe, no vaidya can talk over what I prescribe. If I prescribe something, it is correct. That I'm sure." But he is very devotional, very pakka, like a Marwari, just like a high-class life member. He sits very straight and he's... Now we will have to see. But the main point we stressed is that you will not have confidence in anyone else. So there's no point in..., that he should tell some other man that in his absence, "Do like this." Because supposing in his absence the medicine doesn't work right. Then the other kaviraja becomes the kaviraja. That we don't want. I said, "You must see the reaction of the medicines, and you must... When Prabhupada eats, you must sit there and watch and see what he's eating, see everything." And he said, "That I will do." Another nice, thing Srila Prabhupada. Remember, you initiated one devotee, Radha-Ramana Goswami? You remember his father and mother, Joshis, from Delhi? You lived with them. So he wrote a letter to you about a week ago, saying that he wanted to come back. So I wrote him, "Yes, you come. Prabhupada will see you." So he came today. He's in saffron with shaved head. So I thought afterwards he can come and... He wants to become a devotee again. He's wasted his five years. He knows he's wasted time. Aksayananda Maharaja suggested that he can engage in helping Bhakti-prema Swami. Because Bhakti-prema, he dictates, but he needs someone to hear and to write. This way, he'll be working for your books and hearing the philosophy, and he's a literate person. Three years in college. Anyway, he returned today. Nanda-kumara also came. He arrived yesterday. So gradually everyone is returning to your lotus feet, Srila Prabhupada. Not possible to leave you, Srila Prabhupada. So would you like to go on the parikrama this morning? We can make arrangements now?
Upendra: We have some grape juice?
Tamala Krsna: Would you like to take something, Srila Prabhupada? Drinking?
Prabhupada: I have taken in the morning Horlicks.
Tamala Krsna: You took Horlicks? Want to take anymore?
Satadhanya: We have some here.
Bhavananda: Grape juice they prepared, should you want to take.
Svarupa Damodara: It's about ten to eleven, Srila Prabhupada, about ten minutes to eleven.
Tamala Krsna: ...we can go on parikrama. The weather is cool in Vrndavana now, even during the day. We'll put your sunglasses on so you won't be disturbed by the light. (background talking)
Satadhanya: It's grape juice, Srila Prabhupada.
Bhavananda: Tamala Krsna Maharaja and I went into the temple for darsana, and we were commenting how the people are so impressed by the Deities, all of the visitors, especially Radha-Syamasundara. They're so beautifully dressed.
Tamala Krsna: Bhavananda Maharaja was saying how last night you were saying that there's nothing nicer and more fortunate than to be the pujari of a Deity. [break] We'll just get the sum and substance. He's offering his obeisances to Bhavananda Maharaja and the other devotees he met here. He says he's very anxious about your health and progress. He requested me to give him a report. He says as regards to starting of the dispensary and also organizing a health teaching center for educating the boys by the latest audio-visual methods, he said that you seemed to be very earnest about it. In fact, he says that you told him to start as soon as possible. But he wishes to explain some of his difficulties. So Sharma and Jagadisa, the director of education, and... They they've promised to go through the idea. But he didn't find that Dr. Sharma showed much inclination for this idea. The actual thing, Srila Prabhupada, is that we want him to have a dispensary. We're not so much eager for his educational training. Naturally Dr. Sharma was not so enthusiastic.
Prabhupada: No. Ours is spiritual education, no medical education.
Tamala Krsna: Right. That's the point.
Prabhupada: Preliminary health principles, they can le...
Tamala Krsna: That's already going on.
Svarupa Damodara: Sharma is teaching Ayurvedic, basic Ayurvedic.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, anyway, that's... So I'll explain to him that what we want... I already wrote him a letter inviting him to... He can have two rooms, one for his living and one for his dispensary, and treat the inmates here. I'll again repeat that. [break]
Hanuman-prasada: Dr. Sharma said that you named introduction as Antar-Darsana because it gives in essence of the entire...
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hanuman-prasada: Dr. Sharma suggested that we name introduction as Antar-Darsana, because it is the essence of the entire commentary. We have summarized the entire thing into thirty pages. So I thought we can name it...
Prabhupada: Antar-Darsana?
Prabhupada: Good. Read it.
Svarupa Damodara: Read it.
Hanuman-prasada: (reads Hindi book or article and discusses with Prabhupada in Hindi) [break]
Prabhupada: As it is.
Svarupa Damodara: That's in all languages.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Svarupa Damodara: It's unlimited service that one can render.
Hanuman-prasada: That's why I become a bit discouraged sometimes because I'm not able to do what I want to do.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Svarupa Damodara: So you can translate also.
Hanuman-prasada: I want. It's his mercy we shall do. (Hindi) He's a divine power. That's all. He's not a person.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Svarupa Damodara: You want to take some prasadam?
Prabhupada: Here... (?)
Bharadvaja: Nayanabhirama.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Svarupa Damodara: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Upendra: Oh, Srila Prabhupada, none of us speak Hindi. There's no more Hindi-speaking disciples at your side just now. Bharadvaja, Nayanabhirama and myself, Upendra dasa, are here.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...report...
Upendra: They have that article in the next room.
Nayanabhirama: I just cut it out.
Upendra: And we'll show it to Rajiv. They've gone to take prasadam just now.
Prabhupada: Oh. Just make it dark. (sound of curtains closing) [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...for getting a little more clear purposes of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust we're developing at Gauda-mandala-bhumi. Would you like to hear what we have written?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Svarupa Damodara: "First point: To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to the residents and the visitors of Gauda-mandala-bhumi. Second point: To propagate the consciousness of Krsna, as it is revealed in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, and to propagate that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Lord Krsna Himself, as is revealed in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta and the Caitanya Bhagavata. 3) To bring all the members of a together nearer to Lord Caitanya and thus develop within humanity at large that each soul is a part and parcel of Godhead, Krsna. 4) To teach and encourage the sankirtana movement of congregational chanting of the holy names of God given in the teachings of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. 5) To erect temples, schools, colleges, universities, institutes of higher studies, hospitals and other buildings with or for the advancement of the objects of the Trust and to maintain, alter and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. 6) In keeping with the spirit of the previous acarya's vision of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gaudiya-Madhva sampradaya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and Srila Thakura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous acaryas in this line. 7) With a view to achieving the aforementioned purposes and to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, and other books and other items. 8) To do all such other things for the attainment of the objects of the Trust. 9) Trustee members are appointed lifetime. The members should always be seven. 10) A meeting once a year at Sridhama Mayapura during Gaura-Purnima. 11) There should be a chairman, a treasurer, and a secretary elected each year. 12) A quorum of at least five members." Finishes.
Tamala Krsna: So these are the points, Srila Prabhupada, that we have... We expanded this. Your original simple point was to form a Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity for developing Gauda-mandala-bhumi. So we have expanded it into these points if they please Your Divine Grace. We took the ideas mostly from your original points in the..., when you formed the New York corporation, Srila Prabhupada. We used those points and just changed them around a little bit. Today that Jagadish, I forget his name, that lawyer from Mathura, he is coming, so I'm going to be meeting with him, and I'll give him these points and see if he can draft a document, proper document. I'd like to get a document done in time so that when we go to Mayapura, and especially at Gaura-Purnima, we can have the first meeting. [break]
Bhavananda: ...mantras nonstop, while he's preparing. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Where is Vrindavan? I spoke with him for about two hours this afternoon, going over all of the points again, and, er, I explained everything to him. He said that he personally has very bad luck, very unlucky person. He said, "My only possible hope is my father."
Prabhupada: To guide him.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. I told him, "You're right. Actually Prabhupada is... All of us were in the same position. We're all unlucky. Our only hope is Srila Prabhupada." I said, "As long as you keep remembering that, then you'll be all right." [break]
Prabhupada: Hm. Submissive, we can guide him.
Tamala Krsna: He said he's very frightened of you. I told him that we also are. (laughter) I said, "Even though Prabhupada is lying in bed ill, we are very frightened also."
Svarupa Damodara: That's a fact. [break]
Prabhupada: You are doing?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Panca-dravida: We are very much fortunate that after so many millions of lifetimes in the material world we have finally met a qualified spiritual master.
Prabhupada: For fifty years they could not construct a mandapa in Gauda-mandala.
Tamala Krsna: Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, or Charitable Trust? Which do you prefer, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: That I do not know. You...
Svarupa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada said... [break]
Tamala Krsna: He stays in the governor's room. Room number 31. We gave him nice prasadam. Is the kaviraja here right now, Satadhanya Maharaja? Is he?
Satadhanya: He was mixing medicines a little while ago.
Tamala Krsna: Would you like to see him, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No, not necessary.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. [break] ...appreciative of Your Divine Grace and of ISKCON. Adri-dharana reports that while they were traveling together, during the ten hours they were discussing your Society's activities around the world. And the Shastriji was saying how the effect of Krsna consciousness is so transcendental that even if a person is mleccha-yavana, he can become a pure devotee by chanting of the holy name. And he said therefore he feels that the work which you are doing is the most important work being done by anyone in the whole world. He's very favorable towards you and towards ISKCON and the devotees. [break] ...has to admit that, Srila Prabhupada, that your work is the topmost of anyone on this planet. [break] (kaviraja and Prabhupada, Bhakti-caruHindi)
Bhakti-caru: He's saying that the more Srila Prabhupada sleeps, it's better for him.
Tamala Krsna: Really. He's sleeping a lot. Today you were sleeping a lot, Srila Prabhupada.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: He took three spoonfuls.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, did you have any problem with the stool today? There was not so much passing, I think.
Bhakti-caru: Not at all today.
Prabhupada: Stool? No.
Tamala Krsna: So that problem has cleared up. It was that medicine. That medicine, that makara-dhvaja.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: Why is it that Prabhupada has no thirst?
Bhakti-caru: (asks kaviraja in Hindi) He says it's not good to have too much thirst. It's better in this condition. He's not eating anything. To have the thirst is a kind of disease when the bile secretion increases.
Kaviraja: No wind. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: The assistant? Somebody is appointed assistant.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Adri-dharana is doing all assisting and serving to him, Adri-dharana, the boy who brought him.
Prabhupada: No, Ranganatha temple, somebody?
Tamala Krsna: Oh. Not yet, Srila Prabhupada. We're not getting into that, because hopefully we want him to stay for, some time.
Prabhupada: He has agreed.
Tamala Krsna: He's agreed to stay for some time.
Prabhupada: No, that assistant.
Tamala Krsna: No, we haven't approached anyone yet.
Bhakti-caru: No, he has come.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, you did approach?
Bhakti-caru: Yes. Like, he just wanted to consult him. Consult him in the sense... At the first place he had to discuss about certain preparations, and he didn't have the books with him, so he wanted to see the books, so I took him there. And then he liked him, talking to him, and he says he's a very efficient person. So he wanted him to come tomorrow, so like when he is not here...
Tamala Krsna: How long he will stay here for?
Bhakti-caru: Four or five days he agreed to stay. But he says that in four or five days Srila Prabhupada won't be able to travel. It will be at least ten to fifteen days. At that time...
Tamala Krsna: Anyway, let us see. Maybe we can convince him to stay.
Svarupa Damodara: A bit longer.
Tamala Krsna: We should try. Srila Prabhupada? I had meeting with that lawyer? That man is wonderful. He is the first lawyer I have ever met that I honestly feel is an honest man. That Jagadish...
Prabhupada: Agarwal.
Tamala Krsna: Is that his name? Agarwal? From Mathura. Whew! Very high class man, thoroughly gentleman.
Svarupa Damodara: Noble-minded.
Tamala Krsna: We met. Svarupa Damodara and I spent an hour at Bhagatji's house. Bhagatji brought him. So he's going to do that Trust. He says in three or four days time he can finish it, Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, with the aims and objects we have given. Then I talked about that squandering amendment. So he explained that the best way to do it is that we amend it to say that they always get 250 rupees for their maintenance, and the other 750 rupees, instead of fixing it in their names, fix it in the name of ISKCON, and ISKCON executors of the will shall see that they give them the money at the time of seven years for the purposes of three: purchasing property, business, and for buying government stocks. And the profits from those, they can do anything they want with. He said don't let them put the 750 rupees in their name, because then they can do anything they want with it, squander it. But if you put the money in fixed deposit in ISKCON's name, then ISKCON can give them the money after seven years, for those three purposes. So if you approve, then he can make an amendment clause, and then you can sign it, and then it can be done. He understood everything very perfectly. He said actually... He understood it perfectly. Actually, because everything belongs to ISKCON, the whole will is more or less a moral, spiritual guidance, because legally everything is already ISKCON's. So I said, "But we want it to be morally and guided spiritually. To us, this is the will. Whatever this will says, we must follow as Prabhupada's disciples." He said, "Then I can make an amendment, which would be like that, that every month they'll get 250 rupees for their whole lifetime, and the 750 rupees will be put in fixed deposit for seven years in the name of ISKCON, and at the end of that, the ISKCON executors of the will, will give them each the money each month, fifteen hundred rupees, for the purpose of..., in those three ways, and that the money should not be squandered." He said that way, if ISKCON sees that the money is being squandered, then they stop giving them that money and they'll just give 250 rupees. Two hundred fifty rupees they must get. And Radharani De, she may get always one thousand rupees. She is older. Let her have that. Whatever she does is her business with the money. And, I think, it is a very good way. And we'll all make sure that they get the money, but they must use it properly. It's Krsna's money.
Prabhupada: And they'll remain in that house lifetime.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. It's a very good house. I spoke to him. I said, "Have you made any friends in that house?" He said, "Oh, they're all..." He called them lakhi-pati and crore-pati. (Prabhupada laughs) I said, "So it's very good house. Such big people are living there."
Prabhupada: Who said lakhi....
Tamala Krsna: Vrindavan. He was saying that they're all big people living there. So I said, "That's good. It means a high class place. You don't move out of there." He said, "It is a good place."
Prabhupada: Very first class place.
Tamala Krsna: It is first class. There's no doubt about it. I also got him a plane ticket. I sent a man to Delhi today, and we got the reservation. So he'll be leaving Vrndavana tomorrow morning at about 9:30, 9:00-9:30. So I told him that he should come and see you. He'll come in the morning to see you. He was... A couple of time you were sleeping today, so he could not come. Otherwise he was wanting to come.
Prabhupada: So you guide him with his...
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. I told him that you want me to help him in every way, and that there's no doubt we will do that in every way.
Prabhupada: So about that traveling?
Tamala Krsna: Travel exp... I talked to him, and I explained to him that he's taken ten thousand rupees for traveling expenses and twenty-five thousand rupees books, thirty-five thousand rupees, and he's paid six thousand rupees in two years. I said, "This is not good business." So he said, "Then stop the traveling money." I said, "I'll stop it temporarily. You start paying some money. Then again we can give you the money." I said, "We want to give you the money, but do some business first." So he said, "All right." No, he's pretty pleased to get this big amount now for making this contract. This is a big amount that he got, half a lakh nearly. From this, he can make more profit, and then he'll pay it back by April, and then we'll give him nine thousand rupees free donation. Each of them gets nine thousand rupees as per your original scheme. So they are being looked to nicely. Actually there's no difficulty. They have very few expenses.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada? (kaviraja chants visnu-mantra) (Bengali) (Prabhupada drinks something) Srila Prabhupada? (HindiPrabhupada, Bhakti-caru, and kaviraja) [break]
Prabhupada: I think whatever money you give Vrindavan for business, he'll spoil. He has already spoiled. They are getting, altogether, about two thousand rupees even without any businesshis mother, one thousand, and they four, 250 each. So let them chant Hare Krsna and eat and sleep. That's all. He has already spoiled.
Prabhupada: You can call him. I shall tell him.
Tamala Krsna: I mean that's also my opinion.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: I fully agree with you. The fact of the matter is, Srila Prabhupada, he has no head for business.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Anything he does, he's going to lose the money.
Prabhupada: Yes, that's all.
Tamala Krsna: I know that also.
Prabhupada: And his assistant is looting him.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. He thinks this assistant is his greatest friend. Just like he's leaving on a plane. He's going to arrive Monday morning by eight o'clock in the morning, yet he feels he has to send a telegram to his assistant on a Sunday. I said, "What is the point of sending a telegram? The telegram will reach after you arrive. And even if it doesn't, what is the purpose of sending a telegram?"
Prabhupada: No, no, he has no business friend. He should not be given a farthing. That is my conclusion. And the postal, they should be given to the respective...
Tamala Krsna: As previously planned.
Prabhupada: Yes. You can call him. I shall tell him.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. I'll just send someone. Practically speaking, when I talk with him, with Vrindavan, I can only think in terms of a charity case, because when I talk to him about business, it's like talking to a young child. He doesn't grasp. I have to tell him the same thing ten times in a row. It's not that he doesn't understand English. He understands English quite all right. But he can't grasp simple business ideas. He's very... He just doesn't have it within him. They should be devotees.
Prabhupada: Yes. (end)

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