Room Conversation

October 28, 1977, Vrndavana
Prabhupada: Where is Tamala?
Tamala Krsna: I'm here, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Huh? What is...?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I mean, er, we already said some juices, vegetable juice. You said you have no objection to broth, vegetable broth. So he's proposing some vegetable broth. That's nice. We can try. And... You see, you have to understand, one thing is that Prabhupada willingly takes fruit juices. You've never experienced a patient like Prabhupada, who will not take what you prescribe. Everybody that you've worked with, they take whatever you tell them to take. But Srila Prabhupada is not that kind of patient. You tell him to take... You'll make a broth for six hours, and he'll take one spoon and then reject it. And then that's finished. So the point is that if he willingly takes some type of a fruit juice, for example, and we've seen for example how he willingly will take grape juice in big quantities. He may not take the thing which you prescribe in big quantities. Better that he takes some liquid than nothing at all.
Madhava: This is very true.
Tamala Krsna: So the proposal that he continues to take some fruit juice has certain merit, because at least we've seen that that's one thing that he will take in large quantity. If nothing else... Every single kaviraja and doctor we've consulted, they all insist that one of the most important things is that there be sufficient liquid taken so that the body can be cleansed properly. So although you may be right that by taking one thing in particular and not taking fruit juice may be preferable, if he can't take it, then there's no use in that point.
Madhava: That's true. If Srila Prabhupada would take nothing but fruit juice, it is much better that he have the fruit juice.
Tamala Krsna: So therefore Svarupa Damodara Prabhu's suggestion was not unbased, because we see that in the past Prabhupada has rejected... I've seen him reject vegetable broths. I saw him reject it at least three or four times. I've never seen him reject fruit juice. So how much vegetable broth will Prabhupada take? He won't take 500, 600, 800 cc's. He may, but I've never seen such a thing.
Bhavananda: He'll take one glass.
Tamala Krsna: So you have to consider that, although he should take sufficient liquid. So you have to augment... [break] ...Satadhanya, when we called Calcutta, and then I could not fall asleep properly because I was very... My mind was active last night. For three hours I was not sleeping.
Prabhupada: On the back side.
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Little scratching, should I do? [break]
Prabhupada: ...krama on the palanquin, practically it is very pleasant.
Tamala Krsna: You look very much like you're enjoying when we take you around. It's very nice to see that you're happy then. [break] Srila Prabhupada, when someone is ill as Your Divine Grace is, it's always a case of lamentation, but somehow or other, because of your most wonderful Krsna consciousness, it is simply nectarean to be with you. [break] ...Indian Overseas Bank. So Prabhupada's idea is that all of you should get sufficiently everything that you require, that you should never feel any difficulty. But he is very concerned that the money should not be squandered. [break] ...going to deal with the letter. He simply instead told you to come.
Vrindavan De: I have sent money twice. Once in Vrndavana and Bombay.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, we got the 870 rupees. That we received here.
Vrindavan De: But took from Prabhupada personally.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. But so far, the payment to the BBT has not come.
Vrindavan De: No, BBT is being arranged. I shall send check.
Tamala Krsna: I think your outstanding bill is about 25,000 rupees.
Vrindavan De: Yes, yes.
Tamala Krsna: So that has not been paid.
Prabhupada: So, why you have not paid?
Vrindavan De: That is also on a check basis. On its encashment I shall send a draft to BBT. I got some outstanding checks. So it takes time, at least a month or more than a month. [break]
Tamala Krsna: We're going to give his business...
Vrindavan De: But I wrote to Prabhupada some loan that is to be repaid in April positively.
Tamala Krsna: Regarding this loan, you were to make twelve percent out of it. Right? You were going to make twelve thousand rupees' profit.
Vrindavan De: No.
Tamala Krsna: On the investment.
Vrindavan De: One lakh.
Tamala Krsna: But you're not making one lakh profit.
Vrindavan De: No. Profit is twelve thousand, yes, twelve to fifteen thousand.
Tamala Krsna: But now by these postal receipts, you're making 27,000, apart from your brother's amount. Yours, your mother's and your sister's will give you 27,000.
Vrindavan De: No. I want that loan for the time being. I shall pay it back.
Tamala Krsna: But that loan... You have to understand something. The Society cannot loan...
Prabhupada: All the money he can take, loan.
Tamala Krsna: On the basis of that money.
Vrindavan De: It is for a month or three or four months.
Tamala Krsna: No, no, that's not what Prabhupada's saying. On the basis of those postal receipts. Is that what you're saying, Srila Prabhupada? You can put up those postal receipts, that money, to the bank, and they can issue you loan against that money.
Vrindavan De: I don't think so. I don't know, actually, because I don't have any idea about it.
Tamala Krsna: Because, Srila Prabhupada, our Society cannot loan money for a business like this. This is not our Society's business at all. You're not... Of the one lakh of rupees' worth of books, only six thousand rupees is from ISKCON's books. So how can we loan one lakh of rupees? We can't start loaning money for these kind of businesses. It's against the Society's memorandum and rules that money can be given to individuals for their personal businesses. This is a charitable society. It's bounded by the Society's charity laws. So, Prabhupada, whatever money he has, he has got as a binamida of the Society. He may donate the money in the sense of giving a stipend to family members. That's different. But as far as giving loans for business purposes to an individual private business... I mean we would lose our charitable status, because the accounts are audited every year. So it will look very... In fact, if we do that, then they may raise objection to the stipend also. Now they can't raise objection, because it's given as a stipend to the family, former family of this acarya. They won't say anything. But if we start taking Society money and loaning it to a private business, which is the way they'll see it, then they'll raise objection. Furthermore, then we'll have to charge interest, and if we charge interest, that gets us into a lot of trouble also. As a Society, we're not supposed to be doing business, profit-making business.
Prabhupada: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?
Tamala Krsna: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.
Prabhupada: So this much can be given to him. You can...
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: That amount can be given to him, and he may pay back the loan.
Tamala Krsna: But he's getting the postal receipts, so let him keep those.
Prabhupada: Yes. When it is matured...
Tamala Krsna: It's going to be matured in ten days, Srila Prabhupada. I don't think it's advisable that we should pass entries in our accounts simply for ten days' time. By the time he goes back...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. He may take indirectly for the purpose with the help of Sandar.(?)
Tamala Krsna: Yes, he can take that money.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: That I also say.
Prabhupada: So that is 47,000?
Tamala Krsna: 43,200 rupees.
Prabhupada: So seven thousand you can give, contribution. In that way...
Vrindavan De: Whatever the amount I may take, I can pay back by 10th or 15th April, positively.
Tamala Krsna: He'll get 43,200 by the 7th of November.
Vrindavan De: Because we have got an order from the National Library of Calcutta worth one lakh. So...
Tamala Krsna: So supply him half the order to begin with.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Why not do that?
Vrindavan De: It is on our confirmation, because the money is the main criterion.
Tamala Krsna: You'll have the money by the 7th of the month.
Vrindavan De: I don't have any such big amount. But if you...
Tamala Krsna: No, no. The postal receipts. But some of the money is to Sulaksmana De, Srila Prabhupada. Some of this money...
Prabhupada: No, all the money he can take.
Tamala Krsna: But that's not what we wrote in the letter, though, because the letter nominated different persons. Then we're going to have to do a completely different thing. Because the nomination was already designated to five different persons.
Prabhupada: I think he can have the... I do not know.
Tamala Krsna: I also do not know the procedure. [break]
Vrindavan De: The 7th November is the last date to confirm them, and I shall be going back by 3rd or 4th of... Of course, tickets available. I shall send my man to Delhi, and he'll arrange everything about books supplying and so on.
Prabhupada: How much you have got?
Brahmananda: How much you have got?
Vrindavan De: That money? Or that...?
Tamala Krsna: Generally how much cash do you have?
Vrindavan De: Cash? At present? Only ten thousand, eight thousand or nine thousand, something like that.
Prabhupada: So arrange to give him that 47,000.
Tamala Krsna: It's 43,200. But I mean...
Vrindavan De: No, you'll get the money back by 10th or 15th April.
Tamala Krsna: No, that's not the point. The problem is that how we can get... I don't know if this... I mean I'll do it, but I'm thinking that we're jeopardizing our position as a... I mean this money is not a privately owned money.
Prabhupada: No, no, the Society cannot.
Tamala Krsna: How can the Society give money to a private business? It's not done.
Vrindavan De: No, it is just a temporary... (Bengali)
Prabhupada: What is in my private account?
Tamala Krsna: Well, Srila Prabhupada, according to your affidavit, there is no private accounts. Once we take it as a private account again, then the whole position of the affidavit has no meaning. I mean, I really think that Vrindavan has to... I just think he has to arrange these businesses on his own. I don't think that he can... He can use the money that's given as a stipend. He can use this postal money receipts. But if he has to take money from the Society for private business, it's not at all going to be acceptable to the Charity Commission. It makes us look very suspicious that we're giving money to individuals.
Prabhupada: So this 43,000 can be given, because it is not Society's money.
Tamala Krsna: No. It's not come in our accounts, so it can be given definitely.
Prabhupada: So this much you can do.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I fully agree. And I have no objection to giving one lakh. But I'm speaking from a legal point of view. It will injure us, and I don't want to be injured.
Vrindavan De: No, I can spare some little amount of interest. I can pay.
Tamala Krsna: That's more jeopardizing. We can't charge interest. We cannot make profit on money loaned out, as a society. It goes against the laws of India. That's the whole point. Even if we gave it in any way, it's jeopardizing.
Vrindavan De: But you can put it easily on donation account, that charge interest.
Prabhupada: No, Overseas Bank they can give.
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Overseas Bank, they can give?
Tamala Krsna: On what basis?
Prabhupada: Against their money. [break] You are depositing some money with the...
Tamala Krsna: We've already deposited money with them.
Prabhupada: So against that, they can give. Bank can give.
Tamala Krsna: I think I'll write a letter to Giriraja. It will take some time. Vrindavan will have to go to Bombay for this if he wants to negotiate this loan. The loan has to be between the bank and him, not between our Society and the bank. That's my point. It's his private business. It has to be kept on a basis like that. Otherwise it's... If the bank... Giriraja may help them. Now we've given the bank instruction that five persons... See, one thing is that all... [break] This... If you think this arrangement suitable, then give them...
Vrindavan De: It is, moreover, a prestigious issue to us. And we have already committed them that we are able to supply, although we don't have any sufficient money.
Tamala Krsna: So I think, based upon this scheme...
Vrindavan De: And that's why I sent my man twice to...
Tamala Krsna: I know, but Prabhupada was not... We never saw your man. He missed us. He missed both times.
Vrindavan De: When he came here, Prabhupada had already left for London. And when my man went to Bombay, already left for Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: But in business field, if the bank sees that you have got fifty percent, they will advance. If you have got fifty percent, any transaction, you wait to do some business...
Vrindavan De: One thing, Tamala, you know, I would like to have Prabhupada's car for the time being.
Tamala Krsna: But Prabhupada said you had to pay five thousand rupees to BBT. That you haven't done.
Vrindavan De: After paying of this amount the car may be arranged.
Tamala Krsna: But first of all you have to pay the money.
Vrindavan De: All right, I will... (Bengali )
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: We already told you if you paid that money, Prabhupada said then you can have the use of the car. But they have not received that money from you. I mean, actually, the fact of the matter is that you have got a 25,000 rupees bill outstanding which you have not hardly paid anything for in over a year. Now, from the point of view of business, this is not very good business.
Vrindavan De: I received a letter from Prabhupada a couple of month ago that the amount which is due from us to BBT, that amount should be adjusted through order, which Gargamuni...
Tamala Krsna: No. Actually if you read the letter carefully you'll see that Prabhupada pointed out that the amount that you would get on credit from Gargamuni was equal to the amount of your bill. He didn't say that it would be adjusted. I have a copy of the letter. It doesn't say that it will be adjusted against that.
Vrindavan De: No. Prabhupada advised Gargamuni to pay interest in our favor to the BBT account to clear out our plea.
Tamala Krsna: So far. I... I know it's being paid to your account.
Vrindavan De: That is why I have not sent any money to BBT. Anyway, I'm arranging to pay BBT immediately.
Tamala Krsna: Some money should be paid. I mean 25,000 rupees' books were taken and no money was received. Very little money was received. I mean, I think to establish credibility some money should be paid. It's only right. The BBT has supplied books. Some money should come back. Otherwise there's a feeling that it's a very one-way businesssimply books go out and no money is ever coming in. I think that from your side there should be some... Prabhupada's only point with the car was to get you to give some money towards the BBT. That was the whole point. Otherwise he could give you the use of the car right away, but he wanted to encourage you that some money should be given to the BBT. The car is there in Mayapura.
Vrindavan De: I shall send three thousand rupees, as I have committed.
Tamala Krsna: When you send five thousand, then take the car.
Vrindavan De: At present I have arranged to pay BBT three thousand.
Tamala Krsna: That's good.
Vrindavan De: But I must get the confirmation. Otherwise he is not ready to deliver the car.
Tamala Krsna: No, I told the BBT that they should write you as soon as they receive five thousand rupees.
Vrindavan De: I must have some letters. On the strength of the letters I can...
Tamala Krsna: What letters?
Vrindavan De: That "Please allow the car to Prabhupada's son."
Tamala Krsna: The letter is already there. I've sent him a letter with... I sent the letter, so he knows that. The letter is there. But they have to receive five thousand rupees from you, and then they'll release the car.
Vrindavan De: Because if the confirmation of the amount received by mail reaches very late, the...
Tamala Krsna: But you have not sent the money, Vrindavan. So why you're worried about the letter reaching late? First of all send the money, then worry about it. There's no worry. Once you send the money, the letter will come. I don't think that you can doubt that the letter will come. The main point is that the money has to come first. You have no reason to suppose that the letter will be delayed. It will come. They already know it. As soon as they receive five thousand rupees, the BBT, Bombay, will immediately inform Mayapura, "Five thousand rupees been received. The car may be given." They know that. It's set up. It's a set-up. And you have to live up to your side to pay the five thousand rupees. It's not very much. It's not that much.
Prabhupada: Now, with the help of Tamala Krsna and who else? Chandra. You can...
Tamala Krsna: Take this order, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes. And if the bank sees that you have got fifty percent, they will advance.
Tamala Krsna: Hm. Especially with the presentation of the bill. Against the bill...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: ...they'll put it out. The bill should be approved by the company that's ordering the books. The government should certify the bill that "We've accepted this bill." Oh, the bank will immediately issue money. They're going to make interest.
Prabhupada: So with cooperation of Tamala and who else?
Tamala Krsna: Chandra.
Prabhupada: Chandra. And with your intelligence you can manage.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. You have to apply your intelligence to this. It's no doubt you're going to have to work hard to get this money. But otherwise where is any business successful unless there's endeavor? The money is there. It's a fact you'll have to work for it. That's a fact. I can see that. It's not completely simple, but it's there. Good business, it can be gotten.
Prabhupada: So you can return immediately with the certificate?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think you should do that. Should not lose time now.
Prabhupada: And Chandra there and...
Tamala Krsna: (to Vrindavan:) Whatever you need from here, I will help you. As far as I can do, any letters or anything I can give you, I am prepared to do. And I can give you the counterfoils, and I'll also give him the safe custody receipt.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: That will be further help. I mean, with presentation of these, this shows that you have position to demand this money.
Prabhupada: When the bank collects, the post office will not have any objection.
Tamala Krsna: That's a fact. If the bank takes money, the post office will pay as the bank orders.
Vrindavan De: But is it possible to...? In case those counterfoils... It is only mentioned in the one line.
Prabhupada: It doesn't matter.
Vrindavan De: Bank will not accept it.
Tamala Krsna: No, Prabhupada said it doesn't matter.
Vrindavan De: Doesn't matter?
Prabhupada: Post office should be satisfied. They have paid to the bank, that's all.
Tamala Krsna: And how will the bank pay to him alone?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: How will the bank pay to Vrindavan-candra alone and not the others?
Vrindavan De: Hm, this is the question.
Tamala Krsna: So I will write a letter?
Vrindavan De: I write Vrindavan-candra or Vrinda Book Company or whatever it may be, I don't think that Bank will make it encashed to Vrindavan Company. It will be troublesome thing.
Tamala Krsna: No, it won't be troublesome. The best thing... We can't, though. The best thing, Srila PrabhupadaI will give a letter informing the bank to make payment to Vrindavan-candra alone. Beyond that, I will also immediately write another of the same letter with my signature and get Giriraja's signature, and I will, at the same time, give Vrindavan-candra a copy of the power of attorney, so that first of all you'll have my letter... Just like this: if Prabhupada were to sign a letter to the bank to pay all the money to you, will they pay it to you? Definitely. Right? So he's given power of attorney jointly to myself and Giriraja in Bombay. Since I... I will sign one letter just myself, and you try and work on that letter. And I'll give you a copy of the power of attorney. At the same time I'll send the exact same letter, but with a place for Giriraja also to sign. Means it will reach Calcutta another four or five days after you reach.
Vrindavan De: For the accounts being offered by Prabhupada? So bank will accept the signature, only those who operates the account.
Tamala Krsna: Exactly. But Prabhupada has given power of attorney to operate all accounts to myself and Giriraja jointly. That's what I'm saying. I'll give you a copy of the power of attorney, notarized copy, and I'll give you a letter, stating to the bank that all of the money should be paid to your Vrinda Book Company. You follow?
Vrindavan De: Not to me.
Tamala Krsna: No, no. To Vrinda Book Company. And I'll get that letter signed by Giriraja also. The fact is, you don't need that letter before the 7th of November, because that's when the payment has to be made. You follow? There's plenty of time. There's ten days' time. For me to give a letter... The letter will be taken to Delhi. It will reach Bombay on Monday. Definitely. I'll send it by QMS. They'll send it to Calcutta by QMS. It will reach by Tuesday. It will reach by the 1st, 2nd or 3rd of the month.
Vrindavan De: Tuesday evening possibly.
Tamala Krsna: By the 2nd or 3rd of the month it will reach. Plenty of time for you to act on it.
Vrindavan De: I should be back by 3rd or 4th.
Tamala Krsna: You should be back as soon as possible to start working on this. If I were you, I would not lose time. I would act quickly on it. And from our side, I'm sure this will work. I guarantee it will work.
Vrindavan De: If it works, then we have no...
Tamala Krsna: It must work, because they have to honor the power of attorney. I'll give you the copy of the power of attorney. It's completely bona fide.
Vrindavan De: You arrange everything, write down all these and signing, put your signature on the letters?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I'll do that.
Vrindavan De: But I may not come back in a very short time, if I have to come within a month. For this work I may not find out any time to come over here.
Tamala Krsna: No, you won't have to come back for this business. This business will be done properly.
Vrindavan De: But I must see my father, after all.
Tamala Krsna: That you may come every day. But from this business, this will work. We'll give a letter to the bank...
Vrindavan De: For the little later the work should not be hampered. I want that.
Tamala Krsna: No, it won't be hampered.
Prabhupada: You give me. He'll go.(?)
Vrindavan De: Because I came, spending so many money...
Tamala Krsna: No, it won't be hampered. I promise.
Vrindavan De: I came by air-conditioned chair car. Took a hundred rupees.
Tamala Krsna: No, I'll pay you back that. You don't have to be... That money we'll always pay you. Whenever you want to visit.
Vrindavan De: Will you be able to arrange a ticket for 3rd or 4th? Because I asked Ramesh. He told me that better to ask...
Tamala Krsna: But I don't advise you to arrange for 3rd or 4th. I tell you that you should go back as soon as possible and begin to work on this. What will be benefit by...
Vrindavan De: If I get it on 2nd. Because tomorrow's ticket may not be available or day after.
Tamala Krsna: Let us see what I can arrange. How you want to go? By Toofan?
Vrindavan De: Yes. That can be... But I was feeling most uneasy in the air-conditioned chair car, because the outside climate was very cold, and inside was very cold the whole night.
Tamala Krsna: So Toofan would be better? Kalka Mail is better.
Vrindavan De: Calcutta from Delhi.
Vrindavan De: Then where should I stay in the night? It leaves at eight o'clock in the morning to Calcutta.
Tamala Krsna: Stay at our temple.
Vrindavan De: Toofan is better I think.
Tamala Krsna: If available.
Vrindavan De: As this Mail from here, Mathura.
Tamala Krsna: So where to get the...? I don't want to get the tickets from Mathura. I want to get the tickets from Delhi. That is my point. I will arrange to purchase a ticket from Delhi.
Vrindavan De: But where can I stay in the night?
Prabhupada: Or you can go by plane. We shall pay.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. His only point is where he will stay at night. But I'm telling him he can stay in our Delhi center very comfortably. See, if we get the tickets from Delhi I can arrange... There's no... The main thing is I want to purchase the ticket originating in Delhi. Then you have a confirmed reservation.
Vrindavan De: Because a Deluxe leaves in the afternoon. That would be better.
Tamala Krsna: Deluxe from Delhi. So it passes by Tundla. So you can pick it up there. You don't even have to go all the way to Delhi.
Vrindavan De: No, if I can start in the morning I can reach by two or three o'clock.
Tamala Krsna: But even if you have to go in the morning from Delhi, I can arrange for your accommodation in Delhi very nicely. My letter to them will give you very good accommodation in Delhi center, very comfortable. You're not inconvenienced here. You're staying overnight here.
Prabhupada: You can return to Delhi in the after...
Tamala Krsna: See, because I know you can get reservations immediately to go to Calcutta from Delhi. (aside:) You were just there. You know that. Because there's so many trains going, Delhi-Calcutta, and if you purchase the ticket here or if you purchase the ticket from Mathura you'll wait ten days. Remember how we had to wait?
Vrindavan De: Last time I paid ten rupees as bribe.
Tamala Krsna: And even then we couldn't get immediately. But in Delhi we can get it immediately. Especially with foreign quota, it's very easy. They give immediately ticket. You can get the same night. So I'll arrange that.
Vrindavan De: So I can go to Delhi day after tomorrow.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Like that. I'll arrange and I'll give you a letter. You go. In any case you go to the Delhi temple. Today itself...
Vrindavan De: I don't know the place.
Tamala Krsna: I'll give you all details. And I'll make all of the arrangements for you to be able to go. Today itself we'll purchase the ticket, and then they'll telephone us what day the ticket is for. That's not difficult. I'll send a man also. Did you have your bath yet?
Vrindavan De: Not yet.
Tamala Krsna: You've got a room yet?
Vrindavan De: Not yet.
Tamala Krsna: So I'm going to arrange for his room and everything, Srila Prabhupada.
Vrindavan De: (Bengali) Somebody has arrived on 13th from Bombay?
Tamala Krsna: To where?
Vrindavan De: To Vrndavana.
Tamala Krsna: Thirteenth. Thirtieth October someone is coming?
Vrindavan De: Thirteenth.
Tamala Krsna: Your man, you mean?
Vrindavan De: My man met with Gopala Krsna.
Tamala Krsna: I don't know.
Vrindavan De: (Bengali) Because my man arrived on 4th, and he came back on 6th because Dhana Jani(?) was already booked from Calcutta. He delivered some fruits or something to your devotee in Bombay. I don't think that... There is a list...
Tamala Krsna: No, we never got. I don't think we got.
Vrindavan De: And we have also sent some letter with Gopala Krsna. Never received?
Tamala Krsna: That I think we received. We got a lot of letters from you. None of them were replied because of Prabhupada's health.
Vrindavan De: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: I got seven or eight letters from you.
Vrindavan De: There was no tickets available before 10th or 11th.
Tamala Krsna: To where?
Vrindavan De: To, by Toofan.
Tamala Krsna: No, Toofan is hopeless.
Vrindavan De: Even by Calcutta.
Tamala Krsna: No, but we'll get from Delhi side. That was puja time.
Vrindavan De: First I got a ticket on 30th.
Tamala Krsna: If I don't get the ticket by train, then I'll book a plane ticket.
Vrindavan: Train is... And I'm not a man of that position.
Tamala Krsna: No. Let us see. If necessary we'll... In any case we're paying for your..., always, whenever you come to see Prabhupada. So let us first try for train, and if we see that...
Prabhupada: That we can pay.
Tamala Krsna: If we see that there's no trains available, then we'll book a plane.
Prabhupada: Or you can book a plane, accordingly. You can return immediately.
Tamala Krsna: You send your telegram. [break] Well, I consider him as a Godbrother.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Tamala Krsna: You wrote in your book that the spiritual master's family, former family, should be considered in a reverential way.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is done.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. No, when I write him a letter I say, "Please accept my humble obeisances." So I write him as a Godbrother. He also writes to me like that.
Prabhupada: So do the needful.
Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Satadhanya: ...was present there also, so he can confirm that we spoke with him and he...
Prabhupada: No, "Confirmed... I approached and he has spoken"these things are going on. These things are paid.(?) Everything is lost. You talked personally with him, and he said that he's very responsible, and he's...
Satadhanya: He's proved responsible in the past.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Satadhanya: In the past he has always been responsible.
Prabhupada: What can I do?
Satadhanya: Sometimes it's not possible also to get a flight. Sometimes it's full.
Prabhupada: You are simply suggesting. Actually...
Satadhanya: Actually we don't know why he has not yet come.
Prabhupada: And you said that you talked with him personally. Did you?
Satadhanya: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: You talked personally, he was going in the morning, and where is?
Satadhanya: Yes, he said he was immediately going. He said he was going to immediately go and see that kaviraja and ask him to come and then get on the first plane he could get. That's what he said.
Prabhupada: Who is he?
Satadhanya: That's Hamsaduta.
Madhava: We can begin the bath now, Srila Prabhupada? [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) ...loan... Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said, no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupada's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.
Prabhupada: No, I expect.
Tamala Krsna: One thing I got a good feeling this time, today, from speaking with him is that I feel very confident about our dealings together. I found that they have no mischievous plan. They're simple. And that relaxed my mind a lot when I saw that. If anything, they're a little worried that they won't get a monthly amount. I said, "Don't worry about that." I think also that he'll keep his word, means that if some agreement... Just like if I said to him that "When the business becomes better, you may pay the other members," I think they'll live up to whatever the word is, you know, because they're always afraid that they may not get the monthly amount.
Prabhupada: Guide them.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. They are simple people. That's the feeling I got today. So I'll pay him whatever he expended for coming here plus his airfare to go back to Calcutta. And probably I'll suggest that he leave tomorrow. He wanted to spend more time, but I told him that "Now you should do this business and don't delay now. This is not the time to take extra time. You can come back later on." Pisima's son's name is Chandra? Hm. Bhakti-caru has his address. Is the diarrhea more or less stopped now?
Upendra: He hasn't...
Tamala Krsna: Passed any stool?
Upendra: That one in the morning was only...
Tamala Krsna: Little, little.
Upendra: Little, like Bhakti-caru said.
Tamala Krsna: So tonight, Srila Prabhupada, tonight you have not passed anything. Then you try to take something, drinking something.
Prabhupada: I'm drinking something.
Tamala Krsna: Not very much today.
Prabhupada: How can I drink very much?
Tamala Krsna: Well, it's relative, I mean to say. Just like you can drink up to a thousand cc's in a day. Today probably there hasn't been so much. Today has been only about 300 that you drank. So I'm just saying that better to take it easy today. But by tonight, if everything is all right...
Prabhupada: Means there will be stool.
Tamala Krsna: No. That was only when you were taking that medicine.
Prabhupada: Now the bowel is loose, whatever I will take, it will go.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. You can feel that it's still loose. How long will it remain like that?
Prabhupada: How can I say?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. You can feel that it's loose. That's different. Isn't there some... I know that like sometimes if I have this problem, there's certain things that one can take which make it, the bowel tightened up. Like I know I would take sometimes rice and plantain. It wouldn't have a good effect?
Prabhupada: Rice I cannot touch even. If I hear about rice, any solid food, immediately...
Tamala Krsna: Vomiting tendency. Hm. Then fasting?
Prabhupada: What can be done?
Tamala Krsna: The bowels should become tighter after a day or two. It shouldn't remain loose for so many days. I mean, surely it must get tighter. The medicine caused it to become like this.
Prabhupada: So he's taking the certificate?
Tamala Krsna: When he goes I'll give it to him. He'll take the certificates, and I'll dictate a letter. I'll write a letter to the bank, which I'll send to Bombay for Giriraja's signature. I'll also give him a copy of the notary of the power of attorney. So with all of these documents... He has sufficient time. It's only on the 7th of November that it comes due. With Chandra's help, he can get everything. Then it's up to him to negotiate with the bank for the loan. I don't think I should do that for him. I'm a sannyasi. If I have to start doing his business for him..., I don't think you would want me to do that, do you?
Prabhupada: Not to help him... If he can get some...
Tamala Krsna: Maybe he should try to get the loan through the Central Bank, Camac Street. They might be more inclined. They know he's, I think, connected with Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupada: You have got some Central Bank passbooks?
Tamala Krsna: We have Central Bank passbooks. I don't know if I have one with us. It may be in Bombay or Calcutta. Just the fact that that bank is familiar with us.
Prabhupada: They have to see where there is account money. I cannot remember.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, I've got it... I mean I'm doing good on this. You mean just in general to keep everything properly. Is that what you mean, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: You mean generally to keep everything in order. Yes, I have a very good hold on it. Some things... You know, because formerly they never kept these things down. Now I'm finding out things. But whenever I get extra information, I note it. Pretty much I have all of the things in order. Just like now I just found out for the first time that he's getting a monthly interest from one of the fixed deposits in the name of BBT. That was never noted. So when I find out the amount, I'll just note it. Then I can deduct it each month from the account that I'm keeping. Like that, sometimes I get new information.
Prabhupada: So you have to search out.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, but I've actually been doing that. And I've also been checking whenever they give interest that it's exactly the right amount. I make sure each year they credit the interest, keeping watch carefully of the fixed deposits to see when they come matured, like that.
Prabhupada: Only thing is that M. M. De and Sulaksmana. They should not be given more than twelve...(?) (two hundred...?)
Tamala Krsna: The only thing is about M. M. De? I've just dictated a letter to the Central Bank of India. I'm going to send this letter to Giriraja that...
Prabhupada: He has become Communist.
Tamala Krsna: We're giving him no..., 250 now, but 750 is put in fixed deposit for him. The total is a thousand rupees he's getting. He only gets 250. But the other part is put into fixed deposit for seven years. I don't want to change that letter to the bank, because we've given it as a standing order now.
Prabhupada: He can simply get...
Tamala Krsna: Two-fifty.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: That's all that any of them get right now. And the rest goes into fixed deposit.
Prabhupada: And they may remain, lifetime.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Provided they don't squander it. If they squander, then it will go to the charity. And now it's very easy for me to check up once a year. I'll just see how they have used the money. They'll have to show me that it's invested somehow. And if they can't show me, then I'll threaten them that "If you don't change this... You must change it. Otherwise the money will be given to charity." And they'll do it. If they use it for investing, then the interest they make in investment, that they can do anything they want with.
Prabhupada: So what about this kaviraja?
Tamala Krsna: Satadhanya just placed a lightning call to Delhi to see if they've heard anything. Otherwise, if he doesn't hear anything, he may have to go to Calcutta himself. One thing is that I did not expect that within... You know, as we called this morning, I did not expect that the man would come here by this afternoon. I mean a thing like this has to take a least a day's time. The man has to be informed...
Prabhupada: No, no. Whether actually any talk was there?
Tamala Krsna: Well, Jayapataka... The original message came from Jayapataka to Gopala Krsna in Delhi, and he said that he had personally, so far Gopala told me that this was coming from Jayapataka, that Jayapataka told him...
Prabhupada: Where is Gopala?
Tamala Krsna: He's in Bombay. He's gone to Bombay. I mean we'll know... Personally, I think that within a day's time you'll know everything about this kaviraja. If there's no such thing, then you'll know that. If there is, you'll either see him here or you'll get news of when he's coming. Or you may get news that there's no way he can come; we have to come there. But I think within a day's time you'll get the news.
Prabhupada: No, this boy Satadhanya, he said, "I have personally talked. He is very responsible."
Tamala Krsna: Adri-dharana. He personal... Yeah.
Prabhupada: But what kind of responsible?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I don't think it's irresponsible. This is still too early to be expecting that we would definitely have heard anything. Sometimes... There's so many reasons why it would take this long to even contact the man. Supposing the man has gone out of the city for a day. It's entirely possible. I mean, naturally because you're ill, Srila Prabhupada, you're feeling, you know, immediately to want news of him. (pause) Do you think that this M. M. would try to cause any trouble in the future? Or is he so useless that he won't do that even?
Prabhupada: He has taken power of attorney from his mother. I think whatever money is going to his mother...
Tamala Krsna: He uses. He can control. But apart from that, he can't do much more.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: But one thing is that the account which is..., the money is going into for his mother, is operated jointly by Vrindavan. So I think that's a safeguard. And now with this amendment, if they don't use the money properly, they won't get it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So they'll have to use it properly. So I'd better continue to write some of these letters, Srila Prabhupada. That way I can get him to expedite his business. I'll be in the next room, in the office. [break]
Prabhupada: What is going on?
Tamala Krsna: What is going on right now?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Well, not too much. I was just writing some notes down. I finished my correspondence. Others are chanting japa, doing kirtana here.
Prabhupada: The kaviraja has not come?
Tamala Krsna: Not so far, Srila Prabhupada. Satadhanya Maharaja got information that they have left for Delhi on the plane at about noontime, which means they would have arrived about three o'clock in Delhi. So it's now 6:30, 6:25, which would mean that they should be here very shortly.
Prabhupada: So they have arrived?
Tamala Krsna: Well, if they got on the plane they should have arrived.
Prabhupada: What is time now?
Tamala Krsna: What is the time now? About 6:25. Do you think you passed stool again, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: I do not know. Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Upendra is checking.
Prabhupada: What is going on outside?
Trivikrama: Arati just... Nanda-kumara just came.
Upendra: I can't see what is...
Tamala Krsna: Upendra couldn't tell. Are you feeling tired still?
Prabhupada: You are not bringing the kaviraja?
Tamala Krsna: Well, he hasn't come yet, no, Srila Prabhupada. I think that if he comes any moment, it will have been very, very quick that he came. I mean actually...
Prabhupada: If not, so that means hopeless.
Tamala Krsna: Let us wait, Srila Prabhupada, because he should be here very shortly. I mean it's actually miraculous how quickly everything was done, how we were able to call Calcutta in the middle of the night, how Adri-dharana was able to get the man and bring him on a train..., plane by noontime, how we again were able to reach Calcutta on the telephone and get this information. So far, it appears that everything is very quickly being done. So we just have to be a little... You know. We have to be a little bit patient.
Prabhupada: Do you think I shall die very quickly?
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Do you think I shall die very quick?
Tamala Krsna: No, I don't think you shall die.
Prabhupada: I wanted that kaviraja last night, so he was not possible?(?)
Tamala Krsna: Which one?
Prabhupada: That kaviraja from Calcutta.
Tamala Krsna: You wanted him? So he's coming.
Prabhupada: When he's coming?
Tamala Krsna: He's supposed to be here any moment, Srila Prabhupada. (whispering) Hm. I'll check my schedule.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Bhakti-caru Maharaja suggested that they may have taken the hopping flight from Calcutta, which stops in about three different places. I can just see my airline... I don't have an up-to-date airline schedule, but even the one I have might indicate the afternoon flight. Shall I see it?
Prabhupada: Everything is theory.
Tamala Krsna: Well, not really, Srila Prabhupada. It's not all theory. We spoke with the man. He went out and got the kaviraja. When we again called Calcutta we were informed that they had left on the plane. I mean there's no reason to suspect that people are lying to us, our own Godbrothers are lying to us. I mean it's so close to the time when they should arrive that we shouldn't become discouraged. I mean right now we could send Satadhanya Maharaja to Calcutta, but it would be very bad to do that, because the kaviraja may be five miles out of Vrndavana right now. Or he may have just reached Delhi if he came on this propeller plane. We have every reason to believe that he'll be here at any moment. We have no reason to feel that he shouldn't come.
Bhavananda: He's definitely in transit, Srila Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: There's nothing at all to lead us to feel dismayed that they haven't..., he hasn't... For example... I mean we got the call through to Calcutta by 2:30, and they said that he got the kaviraja and they got on the plane and left. That's very, very positive information. I mean, imagine if someone had picked up the phone in Calcutta and said, "I don't know," or "He couldn't find the kaviraja." But they said, "He got the kaviraja and they got on the plane." That's very, very positive information. Maybe we should read a little bit. That will be a good diversion now.
Prabhupada: What you'll read?
Tamala Krsna: Well, the other night... I mean we could read SB.. I'm always eager for you to hear Bhagavatam. I mean, I wanted to call... I always like to call Pradyumna and Jayadvaita. Of course, that requires... If you wanted to translate, you could make the effort. Otherwise Jayadvaita could read some of the edited work.
Bhakti-caru: He went to Delhi.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: He says that Jayadvaita went to Delhi today. Why? (quietly) Irresponsible. He goes. He didn't even tell me. [break] ...read Krsna book, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. [break]
Vrindavan De: (Bengali with Prabhupada)
Prabhupada: So you have not given him letters?
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: The necessary letters, you have not...
Tamala Krsna: Well, he won't be able... The letter will be signed by Giriraja and then sent to you. But the necessary other things I will give you. All the necessary things will be given.
Prabhupada: Why don't you give him? Why...?
Tamala Krsna: Hm? Give him right now?
Prabhupada: Yes. What is the use of its sitting here?
Tamala Krsna: Of his sitting here?
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Of its sitting here.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I can give him just now. Shall I bring? I have it in my almirah. I was going to give it to him tomorrow after I showed him the letter and explained everything. I've dictated a letter.
Prabhupada: And if he has got business, why he should remain here?
Tamala Krsna: No, I also felt that he should expedite his journey. He should go as soon as possible. Actually I have everything that I need to give him I can give him right nowthe letter which will be sent to the bank, and I'll be sending...
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Vrindavan De: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: He wants to return as quickly as possible.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. I personally felt you could go tomorrow even, 'cause I thought that you could actually... I think the earlier you get back to Calcutta the better. But his idea was to leave Sunday, I think.
Vrindavan De: Sunday, yes.
Tamala Krsna: Today is Friday. So he wanted to leave the day after tomorrow. Otherwise everything is ready for him to go whenever he wants it.
Vrindavan De: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: (Bengali) Where is the certificates?
Tamala Krsna: Should I bring them? The certificates are with the bank, but we have the counterfoil identity slips.
Prabhupada: So give him. Let him go away.
Tamala Krsna: Just now?
Prabhupada: I said now.
Tamala Krsna: All right.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Vrindavan De: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Should I turn on a light, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So the certificates are lying with the bank. And I'm writing a letter to the bank informing them to take collection...
Prabhupada: Give me... Straight.
Tamala Krsna: Make Prabhupada straight. He wants to be up straight. Lift that leg up on the pillow. Okay, Srila Prabhupada? Lift him from the center. It's not so much from here; it's there. That's it. (to Vrindavan:) So the certificates are lying with the bank, and I've written them a letter that they should take collection, the bank should take collection from the post office directly, and that after taking collection, the full amount of money should be transferred to your account, Vrinda Book Company, care of United Bank. We're making the payment to his company, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: The account number?
Tamala Krsna: He didn't have the account number, but he has the name of the account and the ledger page and the bank and the address of the bank, which I think is sufficient.
Vrindavan De: That is enough, I think.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Actually, even without the account number, if you have the name of the account it sufficient.
Vrindavan De: Name, "Number 11," that's enough for account.
Tamala Krsna: So, then I've also informed them in the letter that the proprietor of the companyand I mentioned your namethat we have given you the counterfoil identity slips and also that we have given you the receipt for the safe custody. These certificates were kept in safe custody, so we're giving you the receipt, because it says that in order for these... Of course the bank can do everything, but you can deliver these identity slips and the safe custody receipt to the bank.
Vrindavan De: To my banker?
Tamala Krsna: No, not to your banker. To Prabhupada's bank, the Bank of Baroda. Then I also mentioned that I am enclosing a copy of the power of attorney, that "Prabhupada has been ill so he has difficulty in signing and he has duly empowered the following two persons." And that power of attorney will also be sent to them. So I'm also going to write a letter to Chandra requesting him to give Vrindavan help, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So he will carry all these letters.
Tamala Krsna: So what he's going to do... Today I'm giving you... And I explained to Vrindavan, Srila Prabhupada, that originally these receipts, these postal receipts, were meant for all of the five former family members, but as he's doing business now and he requires some money, that Your Divine Grace is giving him this money as a good chance. And I said that he should utilize it to develop the business. And in the future, when there is sufficient money, he may pay to the individuals the amount that they would have gotten from these postal receipts. But first of all use it and develop the business. Is that all right?
Prabhupada: It will be success...
Tamala Krsna: Yes. So these are the receipts. They're not actually the certificates themselves, but they're... As you can see, it's called an identity slip. I'll just take one and read it to you. As it's mentioned... It's mentioned on the N.B., on the back side. "N.B. This slip may not be surrendered to the post office when the holder discharges only some of the certificates held by him, but must be handed over when all the certificates detailed in the slip have been cashed." So the bank will want these. You can hand them over, you take a receipt from them, that "These were given by Vrindavan-candra De to you," like that. That's when...
Vrindavan De: Shall I give it to my banker? This? Or to Bank of Baroda?
Tamala Krsna: No. You give it to Bank of Baroda.
Vrindavan De: In Calcutta?
Vrindavan De: Accha.
Tamala Krsna: You give it to Bank of Baroda.
Prabhupada: Take Chandra with you.
Tamala Krsna: Take Chandra. Really, you should take his help for the whole thing. He can definitely be of help. Now, the other thing I'm giving you is the receipt for safe custody. Actually, because we're doing everything through the bank, neither of these are actually required. But it will be further proof of your bona fide by showing here you are with these things. Then obviously you're the correct person. It just further identifies you. Otherwise how could you get these things.
Vrindavan De: I should give them to the...
Tamala Krsna: No, you can give them... They may not even ask for them, but you can show them: "I have these. Do you require them?" If they say yes, then you take a receipt from them.
Vrindavan De: Then I should be duly authorized to hand over.
Tamala Krsna: That's already in the letter. The letter authorizes you that you are having these. That's pretty much all we could give him at this time, Srila Prabhupada. The letter will be going to the bank, with a copy sent to him at his business address. And that should be coming to you, I would think, by the 4th, something like that.
Vrindavan De: Fourth. I shall be in Calcutta at that time.
Tamala Krsna: But in the meantime, on Monday, you should approach your bankers and explain to them that you're going to have fifty thousand rupees, and against this you want a further loan of fifty thousand rupees against the bill, which you can show them. And if they require it, you can arrange for the person who's paying to make direct payment to them, including interest.
Vrindavan De: Accha. To my banker.
Tamala Krsna: Then how can they object? You see? Especially because the person is the government of India. If it were another party, they might say, "Well, we want some guarantee." But no one will ask for guarantee from the National Library. So like that, you can make a nice arrangement. And we figured out, Srila Prabhupada, he's going to make about twelve to fifteen thousand... (end)

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