Room Conversation in Bengali with Śrī Lalitā Prasāda Ṭhākura – January 22, 1976, Māyāpur
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760322R1.MAY
Room Conversation in Bengali
with Sri Lalita Prasada Thakura - March 22, 1976, Mayapur 760322R1-Mayapur [54:57 Minutes]
[speaking with Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's son Sri Lalita Prasada Thakura at Srila Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's birthplace-Birnagara.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. We have a desire to develop and honour Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's place here. You told us before that you will inform us what can be done.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. So what's your… Several times there have been talks earlier. Has anything been decided?]
[Lots of indistincts throughout.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. What decided? My physical movements have been stopped. Mostly I am confined to this room.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Who will discuss? Ah? Who will talk?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. What I will say you cannot understand. You all vaisnavas discuss. I am eighty years old.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. [aside:] Call your mother.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I feel sad and pain how this place has been deranged.]
Jayapataka: Call Bhaktima.
Bhaktima: [Transl. Did you call me?]
Prabhupada: What is that?
Jayapataka: Ghee.
Prabhupada: Who told you to bring?
Jayapataka: This is from America. The other ghee, the other ghee is not fr…
Prabhupada: Big tin?
Jayapataka: Big tin…It is taken from the big tin and put it into this tin.
Prabhupada: Just see. The same foolishness again.
Jayapataka: Anyway, it's already…
Prabhupada: All right. That's all… Simply rascals. Repeatedly say and they commit mistake, commit mistake.
Bhaktima: [Transl. He says, I want to talk with you alone. I have trouble speaking so much in front of others. So he would like to speak with you alone.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. All of you go outside.] You go out and we will talk.
Jayapataka: [Transl. I won't go from here.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Can't you hear he wants to speak with me alone?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You can stay Maharaja, only one person.]
Jayapataka: I really don't want to leave.
Prabhupada: You all go out.
Bhaktima: [Transl. Now speak with Prabhupada.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You all go upstairs.]
Prabhupada: What… If you want to take breakfast, you can take it.
Jayapataka: Breakfast is over there.
Prabhupada: [Transl. This is ghee. Very nice ghee.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. I see.]
Guest: [Transl. It's written, Los Angeles.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. American ghee. You keep it to use for the Lord's service. This big bask…]
Prabhupada: That's all right. We shall talk. I asked you not to bring that and you brought that only. Repeatedly said no, no, no still you brought it.
Jayapataka: They asked everyone to leave.
Bhaktima: [Transl. What's his name?]
Jayapataka: [Transl. He will stay.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Nobody will stay.]
Jayapataka: He has to also.
Bhaktima: [Transl. I am asking what's his name?]
Jayapataka: His name is Hari-sauri.
Prabhupada: Hmm. Don't require.
Jayapataka: Close the door. [Transl. You also go.]
Prabhupada: Now you can close the door.
Jayapataka: Close the door, Bhagavat.
Prabhupada: That's all. [Transl. Now tell me.]
Guest: [Transl. Tell him how you want to tell.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. We have to discuss about Jayapataka's plan of building a new temple here.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Wait, wait. Let him speak.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He has told me. I am just reminding him.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I am old man. I never said anything to anybody about any temple.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Now what we have to discuss? Talk about now.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. It has been dropped now.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Dropped, then no further discussion required.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I don't want to bring it up again. There is difficulty.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. I often come and talk to you about it.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Yes, you come. But what I can do? I am growing older. I cannot do it any more.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. Whom should we talk to then?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I left my house and everything and chanting the holy name here whole life in seclusion. This is my job.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Then no point talking.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You all come here. Good. You come, sit down, give your feetdust. Have I ever stopped you? Ever stopped you?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Stoping…]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You are thinking me to be an enemy. Am I an enemy?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Why are you talking these things?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I am not enemy. I have seen everything. I have tolerated everything. I was born and brought up in Gauḍiya Matha. I have seen everything.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. We are trying to help you.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. What did he say?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. We are trying so that you are supported.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. Look at your health condition.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. …problems and disturbances.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. This is not my job. I have to travel and preach all over the world. Will I sit here and do this?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. That's what I am saying. You travel all over the world and spread the holy name. I will be very glad. I will be elated that the holy name is being preached. Bhakti Siddhanta has gone. His books are there. The confidential meaning of his words…They print and sell them. Vidhi-marga, Raga-marga and bhajan-marga-these three margas no one knows properly…. I have made all arrangements.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Hmm. So now there is no question of any other discussion.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Then for now no need to talk about that.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. If possible, later we will see. Now not possible. You can see the condition of my health.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. If you cannot do it now then when will you be able to do?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Will be done. Everything is there. Have I ever checked? I never stopped. I have never put any obstacles in any way. You are doing good work. I have never complained.]
Jayapataka: What he said 'badha'?
Prabhupada: Badha di nai: [did not create any obstacles.] I did not put any impediment.
Jayapataka: [Transl. What does he mean?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If we come here he never says no.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. There are so many devotees from all over the world. They will come here and have darsana. How that will be…]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Many people will come. They are coming. Just like you have come. You come here, sit down, have darsana, take some water. Try to understand my point.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. The day before yesterday Puri Maharaja came here. Madhava Maharaja, Puri Maharaja. They all come here.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Everyone visits.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. They come with lot of devotees. Only Tirtha Maharaja doesn't come.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Tirtha Maharaja means Kunja. Kunja later became Maharaja.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. You were saying that fruits etc are stolen away from here and there is no one to look after.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Yes, many things get stolen.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. We feel very sad about that. If some proper arrangement is not made then what is the use of so many peoples' visiting here?]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What did he say?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. The same thing. Kunjababu always says, "You have spoiled and wasted everything." But I have tolerated all that. That's what he is saying.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Nobody extends monitary support, rather they find faults.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He always talks about your preaching. He is very happy about that. Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's words, prthivite nagaradi grama, had you not done it everywhere taking so much trouble…, therefore I am very, very happy about it.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Easier said than done. The whole world is now awakened. Can anyone imagine? Is it a small task? I love him so much. Because of his busy schedule we could not meet more often.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. What?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He is busy in many things so we could not meet.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. He has many disciples and he has to look after their benefit.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I decided to talk with him separately about this. But somehow it was not possible.] [indistinct]
Bhaktima: [Transl. You wanted to ask something about the photographs of the literatures or something?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Yes. The literatures and photographs were to be published. But nothing. I only hear, it will be done, it will be done. I am already aged. I won't live long.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. The photographs which you took…]
Jayapataka: [Transl. He has come.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. They are all done?]
Jayapataka: [Transl. He has come here again today. He has come again.]
Lalita Prasad & Bhaktima: Jananivasa?
Jayapataka: [Transl. Yes. He has come today.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Has come? I can't see him. My eyes are bad.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Couldn't recognise him.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I am very sad. I feel hurt. All I do is sit down and chant the holy name. What else can I do? Whatever I could do here I did.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. You see, so many people coming and going, but they are not doing anything for here. Also no contribution is coming from his disciples. His disciples and others are not helping him now. Therefore our Guru Maharaja has taken the trouble to come here and I think some arrangements should be made to preserve this place. I have no other intention.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I have many painful things to say in my mind. But does it possible to disclose everything to everyone? I am not angry on anyone. I am not unhappy on anybody. Whatever distress I have I simply tolerate and chant the holy name of Hari. Oh my Lord, protect me! Oh Bhakti Vinoda Thakura, Protect me! Who will look after me?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Now please stop a little. Our pūjari has come.]
Guest: [Transl. The pūjari has come to worship the Deity.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. From the very beginning this matter was pending.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He had a desire to publish these literatures. That's why he saved the originals one copy each.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. He wanted that everyone should chant the holy name. But nobody will do. All are interested in whimsical way. [indistinct] I have gone through terrible life. My heart longs for repeating Harinama.] [indistinct]
Jayapataka: [Transl. What did he say?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You hear my sad story. How much will you hear? I have gone through so many problems to build and maintain this. Has it been constructed of its own? For whom?] [indistinct]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Along with Bhakti Vinoda Thakura I worked very hard to establish and expand things. I helped him for his books and followers [indistinct] This is what he says.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I am living with so much distress.] [indistinct]
Jayapataka: [Transl. What does he say?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He thinks one day Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's place will be as big as Mecca.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. It will be. But how? Only Srila Prabhupada can do it.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Will be done. Must be done. It must happen.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. If you kindly make up your mind and show us a way…]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Now Narada Muni will come. Narada muni will come. You understand?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If they want to do then why don't you allow them?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Do you believe Narada Muni?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. It will be. Those who want to do, whoever, why you don't allow? What's the reason?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. [to Lalita Prasad:] You say it will be done. But he says that those who want to do why don't you allow them to do?]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What did he say?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Place for prasada is being arranged.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Prasada we have brought with us. I brought everything.]
[Devotees chanting sarira avidya-jal, and taking breakfast]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. In our Calcutta house… Bhakti Vinoda Thakura… Look, Narada muni is coming. He will snatch away everything. Take away everything.] [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. I can't understand anything. I can't understand what he is saying.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He says whatever I want to do, Narada Muni chastises me and it is obstructed. Always some impediments. In our Calcutta house, after my parents left, I tried to develop it but things didn't work out. I helped build 'Bhakti Bhawan.' In Mayapur I built my mother's samadhi, but there also same the thing. At Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's samadhi mandir I tried to develop it but again there was obstacle. Whatever I try to do there is always some impediments.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If there are obstacles that is also the Supreme Lord's will.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. That's what he says.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Only obstacles. I have no one to tell my agony. You won't undersrand, won't understand, won't understand. Nobody understood.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What he says about no one understood?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He says no one understood my intention. He says that.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I sacrificed my life. I gave my all for this. I told them, don't stop me whether I succed or not. What you are doing is great. I am very happy about you. Till now nobody in the world could do it.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. All of you take prasada also.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Yes, we will.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Arrange place for them.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. [Aside:] Give all these devotees.]
Prabhupada: Go. Go.
Lady (2): [Transl. Guru Maharaja, we are…]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Yes mother.]
Lady (2): [Transl. …going to take little prasada.]
Jayapataka: Prabhupada wants all these devotees to take.
Prabhupada: I am not. Later on.
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I am being cornered. You know corner?]
Jayapataka: Corner?
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Corner. [indistinct] But what's the use? There is a board here. But if Narada muni comes then it's not possible. He will disturb everybody.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. [Aside:] Where is Bhaktima? Send her here. We can't understand what he says.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Without Ma no one will understand. Send her. Only Ma understands little bit.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. Ma always tells me…She tells that here there is so much disturbances. Fruits etc are stolen. Many other things get stolen. No one protects. No one maintains. No one helps. So we have come to help you. All you have to do is give us an opportunity. If you give…Why are you hesitating?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I didn't stop you.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. Stop. Why would you stop? There is no question of stoping.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. If you can do, do it.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Why don't you take prasada first?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Yes. Let me serve our maha fruits also.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Yes. This is Ma. All Ma. [indistinct] Who is that?]
Indian: [Transl. Svami's father. Gosvami's father.]
[long indistinct talk about sitting arrangements and taking prasada.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Arrange a place out there.]
Indian: [Transl. Let me sit outside. It's been a long time.]
Indian (2): [Transl. Are you all well?]
Jayapataka: [Transl. You take prasada.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I will eat later. [indistinct] 'We eat first. We eat first. That's all. We eat first.' Let them eat.] [indistinct]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He will make those maha-prasad into pieces and distribute to everyone…. [aside:] Why are you going to that side? Sit down here. Prasada is available here also.]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Why don't you all sit down and take prasada?]
Indian: [Transl. We have to serve. Look after.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Let me go.]
Indian: [Transl. They taking prasada now.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Make sure that everything is all right. In Mayapur I have literally worked with my own hands for that temple. The birthplace at Mayapur. So much hardship I have gone through. At that time I was only fifteen years old. I went to Mayapur. [indistinct] Ye mane ye na mane saba tara dasa.] All are servants of the Supreme Lord. Whether you accept Him or not you are a servant of the Supreme Lord. [indistinct] These bananas are of very good quality. Mangoes from our own garden I never eat. No one knows. [indistinct] I tolerated so much. There is a limit of tolerance. I only pray: O Supreme Lord, please protect me. I don't know anything. Whatever You wish You do.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. I will bring some water?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. You also eat.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Sit here quietly. Who is that?]
Indian: [Transl. I am Kule.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Kule. Just listen what I speak.]
Indian: [Transl. Open the gate. Yes, that one.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. I can bring him some other…]
Prabhupada: Ah?
Bhaktima: [Transl. Could you pass on to me that glass kept on the table?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I know this Jayapataka is a nice person. Jayapataka. Cool headed. Cool temper. [about Prabhupada] What he is doing is a noble work. He has captured the whole world. Nobody is happier than me in the whole world about your preaching work.] [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What is the need of glorifying me? Kindly bless me.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. [to one of his brother:] I am six years older than him. He is seventy-four and I am eighty. Six years. We, all the brothers were very affectionate to each other.]
[Prabhupada and Jayapataka whispers in English]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Nana munira nana mata: many sages, many minds. They may say so many things. But what I will say will be final. If you protect this it will be very nice.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Jayapataka said he would…you said before that you would help expand this temple and also give some monitary contribution every month. And construct some rooms here so that the devotees can visit. We have no objection. But there are other members in this property who do not agree. This is the internal matter. And he is very sorry about it. What can I do? Nobody understands my intention. I didn't keep anything for myself. I gave it all away.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Just like, Gauḍiya Matha is now divided. Caitanya Matha, Gauḍiya Matha-I helped build them. They didn't listen to what I said. But they quarrelled among themselves. So many things I did. So much fun. [laughs] [indistinct]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Yes, I said you sit down here I am bringing prasada for you. But he said he will take outside.]
Indian: [Transl. They themselves brought prasada and distributing amongst them.]
Bhaktima: [indistinct]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Ma will serve you. Why not? She will be glad to it.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. I will be very happy to serve you. I love to serve. I will be glad to serve Prabhupada. This is mango. And are these raisins? These were in your fruits basket. And these are plums. Did you print any of those literatures? Devotional literatures?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. We haven't been able to print any Bengali literature as yet. Nobody is there to do.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Not yet printed. Will those be translated into English? Those they took from here?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What will they do with them? They don't know Bengali to read them.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Yes. All are just lying. Haven't you translated Caitanya-caritamrta?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That's done.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. In English?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. I have done it. I have done all the books. They can neither translate from Bengali to English nor English to Bengali.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Ask him to send me a copy.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He wants a copy.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Of what?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Sri Caitanya-caritamrta.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You send one copy here and we will keep it in the Library and ma will protect it.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. I show all the literatures. Whoever comes here I show him all the books. I keep all the books in my Almirah.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Call one of my men.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Do you have with you?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Let me ask.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. What happened?]
Indian: [Transl. He wants to find out from his men if they have a copy here.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. No hurry. Later on. I can't see or read anymore. I want to touch and feel it only. When I lost my eyesight I thought now I am finished. I cry like a madman and simply chant the holy name of Hari. Take shelter of harinama. Holy name. It comes sponteniously.]
Indian: [Transl. He cries in the mood of gopibhava like that.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. That you are spreading the holy name all over the world this is the highest beneficial work. There is nothing more beneficial to people than this. You have fulfilled my desire. Therefore I touch your feet. I pray to the Supreme Lord that since you have done it may He give you power to do more. He surely will bestow all power upon you.]
Indian: [Transl. Mahaprabhu had predicted that the holy name will be spread in each and every home.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He has empowered you to preach like this and you are doing it.]
Indian: [Transl. This is the will of the three Lords [Lord Caitanya, Lord Nityananda, Lord Advaita] that when will it happen.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I tell everybody that what he is doing…]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Now throughout the world we have one hundred and two temples.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. One hundred and two temples. The Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's prediction that; prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama sarvatra haibe tomara nama is now being fulfilled. He gladly says that to everyone. He is great, because he goes to those countries where no one went before.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. [to Bhaktima:] "Ma, always take care of him whenever he comes here. Serve him."]
Prabhupada: [Transl. America, Africa, South America, Canada, Germany, Australia, Sydney, everywhere. Africa.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Russia?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Russia also. China.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You are a daring Bengali and I am an insignificant useless fellow. Simply sitting idle. Shameless. [indistinct] Explain to him.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He has understood what you said.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What he says?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. He is protecting the big family and I am protecting a small family.] [Indistinct]
Bhaktima: [Transl. "I am sitting in a small pond and he is sitting in an ocean."]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You are doing a noble work. Huge work.]
Indian: [Transl. He is sitting here and empowering, and the whole world is being benefitted.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. His work is so glories...]
Bhaktima: [Transl. If you want some flowers and tulasi leaves I can go and pick some from the garden.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Don't be afraid. You are our man. Feel free to take as much as you want. "milimisi kari kaja hari jiti nahi laja:" Work together, no shame either lose or win. [Bengali proverb] Bhakti Vinoda told me, Narada muni told me that no one can kill you. They all left. I am sitting here like a fool with no eyesight.]
Indian: [Transl. Puri Maharaja came here the other day.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Which Puri Maharaja?]
Indian: [Transl. That Pranavananda Puri Maharaja.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. They are all young. What do they know? They have many things to learn yet. What does Kunjababu know?] [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What happened?]
Bhaktima: [Indistinct]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. What did Puri Maharaja come for? For this? What for he came?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He said to all the members of Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's asrama that this personality is still alive. Learn from him how to make avancement, beg mercy from him. Learn how to do pracara etc. Madhava Maharaja also came. He also said, we have nobody else. So kindly guide us like Bhakti Vinoda Thakura.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I am sitting here only. I have no contact with Mayapur.] [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Take this, brand new.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Sri Caitanya-caritamrta? Wah! Beautiful! English! We don't know much English though.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Total seventeen volumes.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Very nicely done. If anyone has any question I can clear it.] [indistinct]
Indian: [Transl. The entire Sri Caitanya-caritamrta is in seventeen volumes? Is it?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Look, Ma! This is the…]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Very good.] [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. In each volume Bhakti Vinoda Thakura's name is written.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. To be frank, you have done a wonderful job. It is indescribable by words.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That ghee is from Australia.]
Lalita Prasad & Bhaktima: [Transl. Australian ghee! Wah! Very nice.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Pure ghee. There, they don't mix.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. We will use it for cooking and offer to the Lord. We don't get good things here. That ghee from Haringhata is not at all good.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If people don't buy then how it will be available in the market. You need people to buy pure things. Where are such people? They make and there are rich people to buy it. That's why they keep. Who will buy adultrated?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. It comes packed in a tin container?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. There used to be three tigers here. Three. Now no more. I told them, go away I will live here. So all of them left.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Do tigers sometimes roam around here?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Not now. About five, seven years ago they used to. Now this area has been thickly populated.]
Indian: [Transl. There was a huge asvattha: peepul tree here. Under that tree this temple was first constructed.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. No, he is asking if tigers wander about. No. Not now. Five, six years ago they used to. Now they don't come out in public. Now so many people around here.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. I live in this jungle. I have no fear. In one way it is good, because I won't be entangled in matter. Explain to him. Better not to get involved in matter.]
Jayapataka: [Transl. What?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Ma, tell him that why should I remain absorbed in matter?]
Indian: [Transl. He is saying that it is not good to be entangled in matter. Better to remain in touch with spirit. This is matter. Spirit is within.]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Which is matter?]
Jayapataka: [Transl. In order to preach littlt bit of matter is required.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No, no. Which is matter?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Whatever you are seeing.]
Indian: [Transl. Whatever is seen by eyes is all matter. That which is subtle, which is spiritual...]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Then the Deity is also matter. The structure of the Deity is also matter.]
Indian: [Transl. No, within the Deity...]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If everything is matter then He is also matter. That body, it is matter then.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. The body is certainly matter. There is nothing spiritual about it.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Have we come from so far away to see matter?]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No, no. Have I taken so much trouble to come here to see matter?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Matter is the source of everything. Everything is inert object.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Is that the conclusion?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Everything is matter.] [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphūrti... [Cc Madhya 8.274] [Matter for those who have no clear conception of Krsna. Is this book matter? This book is matter?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. You understand spirit? What is spirit?]
Indian: [Transl. Matter can be seen. It cannot be realised. Spirit can be realised through bhakti.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Matter is realised by bhakti. You don't know though you cultivate bhakti. Otherwise…]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. That is apara-sakti.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. It is coming from the Supreme Lord only.]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. If the Supreme Lord is spiritual then how His energy which is coming from Him is material?]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Sakti saktimator abheda: [The power and the powerful, they are not different-identical.] [Kūrma Purana]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Indian: [Transl. He says, maya-sakti and cit-sakti. Maya-sakti is external and cit-sakti is internal. So maya has to be given up.]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Maya is also Lord's.]
Indian: [Transl. His only.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Isn't it? The government has police department and the university department. Both belong to the government. For a thief police is fearful. And one who is not a thief he has no connection with the police. Only if one is a thief he has connection with police. For the government both are same. It is spending lakhs of rupees for the university department and also for the police department. The business of the police is for the thieves.]
Jayapataka: [showing pictures from the book.] [Transl. Nitai in a dream to Krsnadasa Kaviraja.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Krsnadasa Kaviraja.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Police are out friends. They come. Big, big Magistrates come to our temple. They don't come to quarrel with or arrest us. Therefore those who are devotees of the Supreme Lord, they... Only to the thieves He is silent and to the devotees He talks.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Here we are imprisoned.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Many Magistrates come to us as a friend. They are our friends.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Bhakti Vinoda Thakura said this place is a prison house. Do not remain here. Get out from here.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. These flowers are from the garden?]
Bhaktima: [Transl. Yes.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Beautiful.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. We have to educate people to liberate them from this jail. That is good. Somebody will understand this. Even one out of hundred will understand.]
Indian: [Transl. Spirit can be realised by ordinary people, but matter is such a department…]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Unless you make them understand how they will understand?]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Maya's function is for those who have forgotten Krsna.]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. krsna-sūrya-sama, maya haya andhakara yahah krsna, tahah nahi mayara adhikara] [Cc Madhya 22.31]
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct]
Bhaktima: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Maya's jurisdiction is where there is no Krsna-bhajana. Where there is Krsna, bhajana, there is no question of maya.]
[Someone enters. They arrange for a seat.]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna. Oh Krsna, protect the devotees.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. I wanted to take this plate. But nonsense…] [indistinct]
Bhaktima: [coughing heavily] [Transl. I will pick it up.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No, I will take.]
Bhaktima: [Transl. He want's me to pick it up. He can't do it himself. Oh mother, take prasada before you go. Prasada is being served over there. Wash your hand. Here is water.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. [to Jayapataka:] Just see where there is a toilet?]
Jayapataka: [Transl. Why? For urine?]
Lalita Prasad: [Transl. My eyes are red. All I see is smoke, blury.]
Jayapataka: Hare Krsna.
Lalita Prasad: [indistinct] [end]
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