Room Conversation
With Radha-Damodara
Sankirtana Party

March 16, 1976, Mayapur
Tamala Krsna: You lead them, Gargamuni. The other men can stand out here (?) [break]
Devotees: Jaya!
Tamala Krsna: Move in. Move in more. O.K. Some men can come through the other room and stand out here.
Devotee: Those prabhus are going to have to go around.
Tamala Krsna: You lead them, Gargamuni.
Prabhupada: Get this fan on. Fan and lights.
Tamala Krsna: Fan and lights.
Dhrstadyumna: Srila Prabhupada...
Prabhupada: Em.
Dhrstadyumna: On behalf of all the bhaktas and Radha Damodara, we'd like to offer you this daksina.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya.
Prabhupada: You know, if Krsna is virad-rupa, so big mouth, so big belly, that, whatever you give, that is not sufficient. So here we are spreading Krsna's mouth very widespread. Here is the plan for Mayapura temple. This is the.... This is only residential quarter. Real temple is not yet constructed. It will occupy 350 acres of land. So you are the pillars of this construction work. We are doing all your construction work on your contribution. So go on preaching and distributing books. If we get the.... We are.... Books are.... As your pushing on the sale is very nice, then the customers are also there. These are American Express? No, no.
Tamala Krsna: Barclay's Bank.
Prabhupada: Now everyone is issuing these traveler's check.
Tamala Krsna: But these are issued differently. In American Express, they charge some money, but these are freely given.
Prabhupada: Accha? Then why the American Express will remain if people will go there? Free service to the constituent, those who are customer.
Tamala Krsna: I think even to those who are not the constituents also.
Prabhupada: Accha. The public also.
Tamala Krsna: This happens to be our bank that we deal with.
Prabhupada: Barclay Bank is big bank, American bank.
Tamala Krsna: This Adi-kesava Swami, his grandfather is Mr. Barclay. (laughter)
Prabhupada: It is grandfather's bank?
Adi-kesava: Great-uncle.
Tamala Krsna: Great-uncle.
Prabhupada: You are Mr. Barclay also? No.
Adi-kesava: Different name.
Prabhupada: So our.... They are accommodated in how many buses?
Tamala Krsna: Currently in six buses and six airports, because Tripurari Maharaja leads about twenty-five men distributing in different airports around the country, and then there's another hundred men who are working out of six buses. Now two more buses are being built to accommodate everyone. And then another ten men are working at our bus construction head office.
Prabhupada: So, of course, you are not going to be absent for many, many days. You come and go.
Tamala Krsna: There won't be any difficulty, because every...
Prabhupada: They are trained up. That is the.... Training, that is the real perfection. Our Tripurari Maharaja is there, and Visnujana Maharaja.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. And Adi-kesava Maharaja is very expert, and Madhudvisa Swami will be helping them.
Prabhupada: A devotee's one qualification is daksa, daksa, expert. Out of the twenty-six qualifications, a devotee is always very expert in dealing. It is not that because they have left anything material, they do not know how to deal with material things. Raghunatha dasa Gosvami did it. Perhaps you know the story. Political. Although he had nothing to do with material things, when there was a political game (gain?) he tackled it very nicely when he was young man. But devotee, although not interested in material things, but for Krsna's sake they deal with material things very expertly. That should be the qualification of a devotee, expert. Not that "I have nothing to do with these material things." No.
The devotee's vision is: in everything there is Krsna. That is a fact. Just like we are using this dictaphone and tape record. It is material things. Sometimes they accuse that "You are against material things. Why you are using these material advantages?" Do they not? You do not meet such men?
Adi-kesava: Yes.
Prabhupada: But for us there is nothing material. We have no such vision as "material" and "spiritual." Material means when we forget Krsna's right. That is material. Everything is Krsna's. Bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. He is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer. So, tena tyaktena bhunjitha, isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything Krsna's. So when we forget Krsna's right on everything, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material; everything spiritual. Everything is generated by Krsna's energies, and there are two energies, material energy and spiritual energy. So in the material energy, Krsna consciousness is less or nil. And in spiritual energy, Krsna consciousness is prominent and very acute. I think I give this example somewhere. Just like this nail, and just little below, there is skin. Both of them are my body, but in the skin there is sensation; in the nail there is no sensation. But both of them are coming from the same source, the body. Similarly, everything is Krsna's. Idam hi visvam bhagavan ivetarah. Everything is Bhagavan but appears like different to the different vision. Therefore we take everything.... krsna-sambandhi-vastunah. Everything..., in everything there is Krsna's relationship. So there is no question of giving it up. Why shall I give it up? This is Krsna's property. Why shall I give it up, prapancikataya buddhya, by mistaking it as material? Krsna-sambandhi-vastunah. So these Mayavadis, they say the brahma satyam jagan mithya: "This material world is false, and Brahman is reality." And we don't say that. Everything is reality because it comes from reality. When it is not used for Krsna, that is unreality. It is not properly being used. Otherwise there is no such thing as unreality, because it is coming from reality. So why shall I give it up, tyaga? Neither tyaga, neither bhoga. Everything utilize for Krsna. This is our way. Any question on this regard? I saw your wife also. She is here.
Bhagavan: Yes. She is here.
Tamala Krsna: Practically all of these devotees are so much dedicated to book distribution that they are going out now nearly seven days a week, without stoppage.
Prabhupada: Utsahan.
utsahan niscayad dhairyat
sanga-tyagat sato vrtteh
sadbhir bhaktih prasidhyati
[Upadesamrta 3]
Utsaha is the basic principle, utsahan and sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83], association of sadhu. Simply utsahan and the association is not sadhuthen it is material. Utsahan means association of sadhu. Sadhu means devotee. Sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. Who is sadhu? Bhajate mam ananya-bhak. One who has no other business than to serve Krsna, he is sadhu. So the association of such sadhu.... Sadhu, sato vrtteh sadhu-sange. Whatever a sadhu does, there is no fault. Everything is right. But still, because we are in this material world, we shall act in such a way that nobody can accuse us. Sato vrtteh. Sadhu is above all this vrtti, but still, you keep pace with the material world, otherwise your activities will be hampered. Therefore Rupa Gosvami has said sato vrtti: "The dealings should be very honest." Sato vrtteh sadhu sange, sadbhih, six items. Utsahan, enthusiasm; dhairyat, patience. Utsahan dhairyat niscayat, with confidence. So enthusiasm, patience, confidence. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanat. You have to act according to the prescribed way, and sato vrtteh, and dealings very honest, and sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Everything perfect. So where you all staying? In new quarters?
Tamala Krsna: No, we have been very fortunate. They have given us.... Just as you have this wing, they have given us the whole wing on the next floor above.
Prabhupada: Oh, that's very nice.
Tamala Krsna: It's very comfortably situated.
Prabhupada: Everything, water supply, everything is there? In the beginning I thought that "Such a big building. Who will come and live here?" (laughter) It is that Matsyavatara. You know Matsyavatara? Kesava dhrta-mina-sarira, jaya jagadisa hare. That one muni, he took water in his pot. He saw a fish. So after some time he saw the fish has grown, that it cannot be kept in that kamandalu. Then he gave more space. Then after some, he saw, He has.... "It is filled up." Again more, again more. Then he threw it in the ocean, and again still big. (chuckles) That is Krsna. Pralaya-payodhi-jale dhrtavan asi vedam **. And who knows this song,
pralaya-payodhi-jale dhrtavan asi vedam
vihita-vahitra-caritram akhedam
kesava dhrta-mina-sarira jaya jagadisa hare **
Similarly Varaha-murti also.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada? When I was very young, in the house I was living in.... My friend, his father was from Louisiana, where they have many alligators. This was in New York.
Prabhupada: Where it is?
Tamala Krsna: Louisiana means near, around Florida.
Prabhupada: Oh. Many?
Tamala Krsna: Alligators, crocodiles.
Prabhupada: Crocodile.
Tamala Krsna: So one day his father brought him two little crocodiles as a pet back to New York, where we were living. So he was keeping them in the bathtub. But just as you described, they started to grow, and eventually they became so big that he had to keep them in the house, and then they were running. And anyone that would come in, they would run. (laughter) Finally they had...
Prabhupada: Very ferocious.
Tamala Krsna: They had to give them to the zoo. New York Zoo.
Prabhupada: But I understand they can be tamed also. Is it possible?
Tamala Krsna: I don't think so.
Pusta Krsna: In Miami where I grew up, they used to have a crocodile fight. What they would do, they would feed the crocodiles until they were completely sleepy; then they would fight with them, so they couldn't move around so good.
Devotee (2): Sometimes they take their teeth out.
Prabhupada: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalaja nava-laksani. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalaja nava-laksani. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalaja nava-laksani. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says, "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it; you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa vimsati.(?)What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.
Tamala Krsna: I think that the newly initiated brahmanas have to come now. Maybe we should...
Prabhupada: So some meeting is not going to be held down?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, there's constantly kirtanas and discourses.
Prabhupada: Lecture.
Tamala Krsna: Lectures and kirtanas.
Prabhupada: Kirtanas. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's soldier to fight with maya.
Devotees: Jaya!
Tamala Krsna: You are our commander-in-chief, Prabhupada.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself says, ekaki amara nahi paya bolo. When He.... In Caitanya-caritamrta you have seen? In the first part you can find out this verse, ekaki amara nahi paya bolo.
Devotee: There's a song like that also.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Tamala Krsna: He says it may be in a song also, one of the Vaisnava songs.
Prabhupada: The first part. Here, this is first part of the...
Pusta Krsna: Look in the index.
Prabhupada: Index. You can read it. So you are reading books also. Not selling but reading also.
Tamala Krsna: Really they are soldiers because many of them have been very severely beaten by police authorities and others during the distribution.
Prabhupada: Accha?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. The men who are here now in this room, some of them have been put in jails.... (aside:) Watch out for that thing. Put in jails and beaten just for distributing these books.
Prabhupada: So there is no legal action?
Tamala Krsna: It's in the courts.
Tripurari: Some places the police have a conspiracy against our devotees.
Prabhupada: What is our fault?
Tripurari: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.
Prabhupada: That they don't want.
Tamala Krsna: The people want, but the authorities don't want.
Prabhupada: You have found out?
Pusta Krsna: No, I.... The index is not there, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: There is no index?
Pusta Krsna: No index. First chapter?
Prabhupada: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya MahaprabhuHe is God himself, Krsna HimselfHe felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekaki amara nahi paya bolo. Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Krsna. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing. "United we stand; divided we fall." This is our.... So be strong in pushing on Krsna consciousness, and Krsna will help. He is the strongest. Still, we must be combined together. Sankirtana. Sankirtana means many men combined together chanting. That is sankirtana. Otherwise kirtana. Sankirtana. Bahubhir militva kirtayeti sankirtana.(?) Bahu. Bahu means many, many combined together. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission, combined together. All nations, all persons they should combine together. There is hope in our society, combination. There are Hindus; there are Muslims; there are Christians; there are black, white. Combine them. That looks very beautiful, just like combination of many flowers. There is black flower also. It looks nice, very nice. Each and every flower take alone; it is not beautiful, but when they are combined together, it looks very beautiful. It is attractive. And that is wanted. Because from the spiritual platform we are all working. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Spiritual platform, every one of us, we are servant of Krsna. So where is the competition between one servant with another? There is.... Even there is competition, the center is Krsna"Who can serve more?" Therefore that competition is very welcome, because there is no personal interest. Everyone is trying how to serve Krsna more. That is wanted. The competition is there in his real form and perverted form. In the real form Krsna is the center, and the perverted form, I am the center. I compete with you to satisfy my senses more. What is called? Heliocentric or...?
Pusta Krsna: Egocentric.
Prabhupada: Egocentric, yes. This is egocentric.
Tamala Krsna: It should be Krsna-centric.
Prabhupada: Yes, then it is perfect. The competition must remain. The others, they say, "Why competition? Make it zero." That is imperfect. But competition to satisfy Krsna, that is reality.
Devotee (3): I found the verse. It's in "Ohe Vaisnava Thakura." Ekaki amara nahi paya bolo, hari-nama-sankirtane.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, not this verse. What is the meaning?
Devotee (3): Meaning is, "I do not find the strength to carry on alone the sankirtana of the holy name of Hari. Please bless me by giving me just one drop of faith with which one can attain the great treasure of the holy name of Krsna."
Prabhupada: So nobody is powerful alone. In Krsna's service also, combine together. That is wanted.
Tamala Krsna: I think there is no question of being alone anywhere, because the guru is always with one.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the ideal.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Guru is also depending, and combination means I depend on you, you depend on me, that's all. That is combination. That's all. So prasadam? Now, we are fasting.
Tamala Krsna: We are fasting.
Prabhupada: In the evening there will be prasadam. Arrangement is being made for?
Tamala Krsna: You are taking very nice care of us here, Prabhupada.
Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!
Prabhupada: Next year it will be very nice. Our, these rooms will be complete. I think this year also, not very much inconvenience.
Tamala Krsna: Not at all.
Prabhupada: In Bengali there is a proverb, "If you are good men, then you can accommodate yourself lying in a leaf of the tamarind." You know the tamarind leaf? That is the smallest leaf of the tree. Big tree, and the leaf is very small. (Bengali) And just contrary to that. These are American tape recorder or Japanese?
Devotee: Japanese.
Prabhupada: All right.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupada! (obeisances)
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. All glories to the sankirtana party, Radha-Damodara.
Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, we signed only the two top checks. The left we left blank so you can do whatever you want. You can fill in whatever you want on the inside.
Prabhupada: That is good. (end)

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