Room Conversation – February 13, 1974, Vṛndāvana
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740213R2.VRN
Room Conversation
Dr. Kapoor - February 13, 1974, Vrndavana 740213R2-VRNDAVAN [36:29 Minutes]
'Let me try.' On this principle I went, with determination
Dr. Kapoor: [Hindi] As I understand [indistinct-moving of mic]. The export minister C. D. Gupta. C. D. Gupta, the old chief minister, you see. He is coming, and I take it they have arranged a program in his honor. I don't know how they will make this program fit in. I don't think...
Indian man: [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: At the same time. [break]
Prabhupada: In the road they are announcing that "Sri Bhaktivedanta Swami American sisyas..."
Dr. Kapoor: I heard the announcement, but that was on the [indistinct] hari-nama-sahkirtana mandal, I think. You have your [indistinct]?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: The other program is on behalf of...
Prabhupada: [indistinct].
Dr. Kapoor: Hari-nama-sahkirtana mandal.
Prabhupada: Accha.
Dr. Kapoor: That is exclusively for you.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Dr. Kapoor: But I don't know how they have arranged with this other program, but I was told that this C. D. Gupta, the ex-chief minister, is coming.
Guest [Indian man]: At Sriji Mandir?
Dr. Kapoor: Sriji Mandir. [indistinct conversation in background with Indian guest] You not from here?
Guest [Indian man]: No, no I have just arrived. I'm not from here.
Dr. Kapoor: I was told by responsible person that C. D. Gupta is coming to see the temple at four o'clock. I don't know. At any rate, I may be wrong. It's [indistinct], you see. They shouldn't make the two programs coincide. [pause] Prabhupada is working wonders through you?
Prabhupada: [laughing] It is by your blessings.
Dr. Kapoor: Wonders [indistinct]
Prabhupada: I do not know how Krsna is making plans. I am sometimes myself puzzled. [laughter]
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, Sir because you are just an instrument. [laughter].
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: You are just an instrument, you see.
Prabhupada: Just like Kaviraja Gosvami also writes that "I do not know how things are coming, but with my hand is getting written." It is something like that.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, yes. It cannot be, cannot but be [indistinct].
Prabhupada: Krsna consciousness is so nice. Even by His consciousness it acts faultlessly.
Dr. Kapoor: It acts immediately.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes [indistinct].
Prabhupada: Ahaituki.
Dr. Kapoor: Huh?
Prabhupada:
Dr. Kapoor: Ahaituki. Hmm.
Prabhupada: Jnana-vairagya, janayaty asu, ahaituki. Nobody knows how we do.
Dr. Kapoor: That's true.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: That's true. But the wonder is that it didn't act so far, you see. It didn't act when Bon Maharaja went out. It didn't act when a proper program, and a number of other people, you see. It has started acting only now. [laughter]
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Tamala Krsna: Do you know what the address of Indore is?
Prabhupada: What?
Tamala Krsna: Address, Indore? [break]
Dr. Kapoor: [Bengali] Just that I was saying that we require, you see, in this age.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: Just that I was saying.
Prabhupada: Simply they were binding, or something else.
Dr. Kapoor: No, not only the outside [laughter], the outside. And the people, particularly in the West, you see, will not be impressed simply with the outside.
Prabhupada: It is selling like anything. Our Bhagavad-gita As It Is, you have seen it?
Dr. Kapoor: Huh?
Prabhupada: I am presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Dr. Kapoor: Huh.
Prabhupada: So that Bhagavad-gita As It Is, published by Macmillan Company.
Dr. Kapoor: Huh. No, I haven't read it through, but I saw the publication.
Prabhupada: Yes. So they are having every year one edition.
Dr. Kapoor: Hmm. I see. Wonderful.
Prabhupada: Yes, for the last..., it has begun from 1968, it is still going on. Every year, they publish and they send me royalty, $2,000.
Dr. Kapoor: Good.
Gurudasa: Dr. [indistinct] has read Nectar of Devotion.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Devotee: [indistinct] has read Nectar of Devotion.
Dr. Kapoor: Nectar of Devotion I have read. That's wonderfully done.
Prabhupada: You like it? Oh, yes.
Dr. Kapoor: It's nectar, really.
Prabhupada: Dr. Kapoor, what is your age now? I think you are a little younger than me.
Dr. Kapoor: I think I am pretty younger than you.
Prabhupada: Ah, what is your age now?
Dr. Kapoor: I am sixty-two, now; sixty-three, sixty-three.
Prabhupada: Oh. Ten years. Not ten years; nine years.
Dr. Kapoor: Nine years.
Prabhupada: Yes, because when you were a student, at that time we are family man.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, when I had just finished my university career, I think...
Prabhupada: In Allahabad, when you were living at that...
Dr. Kapoor: Gauḍiya Matha.
Prabhupada: Gauḍiya Matha, I think you were student then.
Dr. Kapoor: I had just, I think, I was a research student then. I had just taken my M.A. and I was working as a research scholar. I met Giri Maharaja in 1931 when he did some [indistinct] at Nainital.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Dr. Kapoor: He first introduced me to Mahaprabhu, you see, or introduced Mahaprabhu to me. You see, before that I was a [indistinct].
Prabhupada: But your teeth are very strong.
Dr. Kapoor: Teeth are...?
Prabhupada: You're having strong teeth.
Dr. Kapoor: Well, they are, so long as you don't know that it is not real ones. [laughter]
Devotee: That is maya. [more laughing by Dr. Kapoor]
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: She was here only a couple of days ago. My youngest son was married on the 20th [indistinct]...
Prabhupada: Ah, yes, I heard.
Dr. Kapoor: So they came in that connection.
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: I have two sons and two daughters. The eldest one is the one you know.
Prabhupada: Oh, in Kanpur.
Dr. Kapoor: In Kanpur.
Prabhupada: Dhawan.
Dr. Kapoor: Dhawan, Dhawan. Yes, she also knows you very well.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, I was Dhawan's guest sometimes.
Dr. Kapoor: You were his guest, yes, yes. My son-in-law was telling me.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: He was telling me.
Prabhupada: I think that gentleman is no longer alive.
Dr. Kapoor: His father is no more.
Prabhupada: No... Yes, I am speaking of the old Dhawan.
Dr. Kapoor: Ah, I see.
Prabhupada: Even though he was a young man.
Dr. Kapoor: Ah, he was a young man. When did you go to Kanpur?
Prabhupada: I think I went to Kanpur sometimes in the year 1956.
Dr. Kapoor: Fifty-six?
Prabhupada: Yes, '55. [Bengali-greets visitor]
Guest: [Hindi]
Prabhupada: [Hindi] Sriji
Dr. Kapoor: Sriji, Sriji [Hindi].
Guest: [Hindi]
Prabhupada: [Hindi] [break] ...kalau nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha . [Hindi conversations] "Let me try." On this principle I went, with determination. [Hindi] Yasya prasadad bhagavat prasado.
[break] [Bengali] ...seventy dollars per month. Seventy dollars means seven hundred rupees. So expenditure was over 2,000 rupees according to our Indian calculation.
Dr. Kapoor: And, uh...
Prabhupada: The income was nil.
Dr. Kapoor: Nil. How much money did you carry with you?
Prabhupada: Forty rupees.
Dr. Kapoor: Forty rupees?
Prabhupada: Yes. But I could not spend, because there was no exchange for Indian currency. No [laughter]. So it was kept as it is. When I came back in 1967, that was spent as my taxi fare [laughter]. At that time it was spent. From Palam airport to Delhi, that Chippiwada, so they charged me thirty-five rupees or forty rupees. So at that time it was spent, and 1967 there was heart attack.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Prabhupada: Yes. I was hospitalized, but I did not like the hospital. So I thought that "Now I shall die, let me go back to Vrndavana." [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, it was 1967, wasn't it?
Prabhupada: 1967, yes.
Dr. Kapoor: So it was after the heart attack that you came here?
Prabhupada: Yes. At that time. Then there was repeated letters, "Come back, come back." So I returned in 1968. So, in spite of heart weakness, I worked. I suffered that weakness continually for one year.
Dr. Kapoor: Naturally, naturally.
Prabhupada: Then I was taking kaviraja's medicine. I took it from here, that Yogendranatha. That gave me good strength, and massage the body, not taking bath in cold water. In this way, somehow or other, still going on.
Dr. Kapoor: Now I think you would be more useful if you took more rest, spend as little as what Hare Krsna...
Prabhupada: What? Rest [Hindi].
Dr. Kapoor: No, even then, [Hindi].
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: Even if you go by plane.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: That means straight. So if you stay at one place, that's a different kind of life, you see. It's not so strenuous. You move around from place to place...
Prabhupada: But I have got sixty-six branches, so if I do not go some time at least, they also become little depressed.
Dr. Kapoor: That is true, but you'll have to find some way out. You have to...
Prabhupada: I have constituted one Governing Body as Prabhupada desired, Governing Body, but still they are not so experienced. [loud kirtan] [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: You would more than happy... devote yourself to reading and writing [indistinct] than going about.
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: Have a small center here in Vrndavana, and you should make this your permanent place for this. Once or twice you may go here and there.
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Dr. Kapoor: Would Vrndavana not be more suitable?
Prabhupada: Vrndavana is very suitable, but... [Hindi to other guests]
Guest [Indian man]: I am going to inform something. I am panca-sastri.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Guest: I am Vedanti gold medallist. I am gold medallist in Vaisnava sastra. [Hindi]
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Guest: If you let me, I wish to give life.
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Guest: Sixty, about sixty. I want to give my life for this religion.
Prabhupada: Oh, that's good.
Guest: Prabhupada, let's meet.
Prabhupada: Oh, you remain with us.
Guest: Practically I am very weak.
Guest: Now my hope is successful. I have seen you.
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Guest: Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: [Hindi]
Guest: [Hindi]
Prabhupada: [Hindi with guest]
Guest: [Hindi] I am very encouraged to read your book which is written by Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: You have seen some of my books?
Guest: Mmm.
Prabhupada: So you can read.
Guest: I am willing to read and the see it and...
Prabhupada: [aside] So, first of all give him our Bhagavad-gita As It Is to read. [Hindi conversation] [break] [Hindi] Copper plates.
Dr. Kapoor: Well, I think it will be about five hundred pages. [Hindi conversation]
Prabhupada: [Hindi, talking about the different centers and Indians] ...especially Punjabis.
Dr. Kapoor: They are all over.
Prabhupada: Ah, Punjabis, Gujaratis.
Dr. Kapoor: Gujaratis also. Hmm.
Prabhupada: And Sindhis. Gujaratis are more.
Dr. Kapoor: Huh! I see.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. In San Francisco there are many Gujaratis, Patels.
Dr. Kapoor: Patels. Hare Krsna. So how did you manage immediately after landing in USA?
Prabhupada: Yes. Manage... When I got only two hundred dollars in hand, at that time immediately I rented a storefront.
Dr. Kapoor: A?
Prabhupada: Storefront.
Dr. Kapoor: Huh.
Prabhupada: A shop.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Prabhupada: It was hundred and twenty-five dollars. And I got opportunity, also, the same building, one small apartment, seventy-two dollars, or seventy dollars..., no, seventy-five, seventy-five. In this way, two hundred dollars per month. So I had only two hundred dollars, I immediately advanced and took the risk of two hundred dollars.
Gurudasa: That was a year after you went.
Prabhupada: Yes. In 1966. I went there in 1965. So, then...
Dr. Kapoor: No, but from '65 to '66 how did you manage? You didn't have any money with you.
Prabhupada: Managed by selling my books.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Prabhupada: Bhagavatam.
Dr. Kapoor: I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: I see. You carried your books with you?
Prabhupada: Yes, I took two hundred sets of books.
Dr. Kapoor: I see.
Prabhupada: So I was taking the stock to the booksellers there or some institution or some friend. In this way, sixteen dollars, the full set sixteen dollars. In this way collecting.
[break] ...that gentleman who carried me in his car, he is Mr. Kashinath Servan.
[break] ...Bhagavad-gita As It Is, a large edition, this size, eleven hundred pages.
Dr. Kapoor: I see.
Gurudasa: We should let Dr. Karan Singh patronize...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gurudasa: ...an Indian edition of it. We should let Dr. Karan Singh patronize an Indian edition of it, without..., with one photo. As he was suggesting, let him patronize it, the Indian printing.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Gurudasa: Because there is so much demand. He wants to see it. He wants to see it.
Prabhupada: So why don't you get the manuscript and let us have an Indian edition. I told Rūpanuga that the difficulty is that the enlarged edition, when we are attempting to publish, Macmillan says that "We are publishing your book. Why not we, we publish?'' If we publish, then we save our investment to publish. That has not been decided, so therefore I advised my secretary in New York that Macmillan's permission or no permission, you should immediately print. If they print it is all right; otherwise print ourself.
Dr. Kapoor: Haven't you given the copyright to them?
Prabhupada: No, copyright is mine.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Guest (5): Can you get..., get it published in India?
Prabhupada: In India, yes. No, by publisher, especially publisher like Macmillan, you save so much time and investment also. We are not for profit. We want to see the publication is in the market, so in that sense we save so much trouble. But they always look after their business profit.
Dr. Kapoor: Naturally.
Prabhupada: In the beginning also I requested them to publish the whole, but they said, "No, it will be very big; it will be costly. You reduce it to 400 pages.'' So that 1100 pages were reduced to 400 pages. Now when people are demanding this Bhagavad-gita As It Is... People are coming. When our sahkirtana party goes in the street, many gentlemen comes and demands, "Have you got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gita As It Is?"
Dr. Kapoor: Hmm, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes, they demand it. In every center it is going on very nicely. Then we have many customer requested the enlarged edition. So... So everything is ready. Now this controversy, that Macmillan will publish or we shall publish.
Dr. Kapoor: There is no doubt that you will be saving a lot of trouble [indistinct].
Prabhupada: And they have got good organization.
Dr. Kapoor: Good organization they have got.
Prabhupada: All over the world.
Dr. Kapoor: They'll sell more. They'll sell more.
Prabhupada: Actually, because it was published by Macmillan Company, it has become widely circulated; people are demanding.
Dr. Kapoor: I think you should let them publish.
Prabhupada: That I am trying, but it has not been decided. But anyway, it will be published very soon.
Gurudasa: Even if they do publish it, they will not distribute it in India.
Prabhupada: Yes, in that sense we may publish in India.
Dr. Kapoor: You may have an agreement with them, that you have a cheaper Indian edition, which you will sell only in India. You can give them the right to sell it all over the world.
Prabhupada: I have asked that Shishu Kumar. Shishu Kumar you know?
Gurudasa: No.
Prabhupada: The Atmarama & Son's proprietor.
Gurudasa: Oh, yes, yes.
Prabhupada: He came to see me.
Gurudasa: Yes, I know.
Prabhupada: So I asked him the quotation of that small edition of Bhagavad-gita As It Is. He told me that he will inform me. Anyway [Hindi]. [break]
Guest (2): [Hindi].
Prabhupada: Whenever I take ticket, round trip. [Hindi conversation] [break] Ye 'nye ca papa, sudhyanti, prabhavisnave namaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. Bhagavata says.
Guest (2): [chants Sanskrit mantra] Hare Krsna.
Prabhupada: Krsna-bhakti development [Hindi]. [break] ...creation. [Hindi]
Guest (2): Before creation, the krsna-bhakti was in Vaikuntha, seva-loka.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest (2): After creation it came from...
Prabhupada: Tene brahma hrda, adi-kavaye. Tene brahma. Brahma means before the creation. Aham evasam agre. Before creation Krsna was there, and it was..., the krsna-bhakti was injected within the heart of Brahma. [Hindi] [break] ...three to four hours at night, and one hour or one and half hour, altogether five hours. Gosvamis [Hindi conversation] ...brahma-bhūtaḥ. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhūyaya kalpate [Bg 14.26].
Guest (2): [Hindi]
Prabhupada: Bhagavaty uttama-sloke bhaktir bhavati naisthiki [SB 1.2.18]. Uttama-sloke. Uttama [Hindi conversation].
Guest (2): Minor accident with the bus [indistinct].
Prabhupada: Oh. Padam padam yad vipadam. [laughter] Tat padma vipad. Padam padam yad vipadam na tesam [SB 10.14.58].
Guest (2): [Hindi] ...accident.
Prabhupada: Tell me.
Dr. Kapoor: Once, you see, I was going from Janpur to Benares, with [indistinct] in the same car, and when I went on a crossing a badly loaded truck, you see...
Prabhupada: Oh, so...
Dr. Kapoor: ...struck against our car, you see, and the car bounced, it jumped. It's about four or five feet from the ground, and it fell upside down, and there was not a scratch, I tell you. Not one of us was hurt. Not one of us. And a car out on the roadside, so he and one passenger, they were both killed.
Prabhupada: Killed?
Dr. Kapoor: Killed.
Guest (2): I think that happened to us. At that time you remembered Bhagavan Sri Krsna, at that time. He remembers Sri Krsna Bhagavan.
Dr. Kapoor: Baba, I did not [indistinct]. [laughter]
Prabhupada: He remembers Krsna always.
Dr. Kapoor: But Krsna remembered me [laughter], and you see, this is my experience, you see, on such occasions, if you are dedicated to Krsna, even if you don't remember Krsna, Krsna remembers you always. Krsna remembers always.
Prabhupada: That is the special...
Dr. Kapoor: It is as much Krsna's responsibility to remember us in times of adversity as it is ours to remember Him. But we are mortals, and we are likely to forget Him.
Prabhupada: [Hindi conversation]
Sraddha. Our Vaisnava philosophy [Hindi] sraddha-sabde visvasa, full faith, visvasa, or sudrḍha niscaya. [Hindi] Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. If one becomes dovetailed in the service of the Lord, Krsna, then everything is done nicely. Sraddha-sabde visvasa sudrḍha niscaya.
Dr. Kapoor: And people are really astounded to see sraddha, especially sraddha and guru in your disciples. That is the one thing that is clear to everybody.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: It is not [indistinct].
Gurudasa: What is that sraddha?
Prabhupada: Sraddha means faith in spiritual master. They are praising your faith in...
Dr. Kapoor: People are impressed very much by your guru-bhakti. [laughter] [Hindi]
Gurudasa: If they associated with Srila Prabhupada they would not... [break] [end]
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