Garden Conversation – September 7, 1976, Vṛndāvana

This is the East and West meeting

Prabhupada: ...of United Nation. [Transl. See practically, see Hindu, Mussalman, Christian, Jews, African, all are assembled here.]

Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor: Real United Nations.

Prabhupada: Yes. The real United Nation. Samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu [Bg 18.54]. [Transl. That is possible only if people together loudly chant and sing about Krsna.] Krsnotkirtana-gana. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nation...

Hari-sauri: Oh, Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page.

Prabhupada: Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that "It is a dog's barking association." [laughter] It was published.

Dr. Kapoor: Published.

Hari-sauri: Front page. [laughter]

Prabhupada: And he added something, that "Swami is hounding."

Hari-sauri: Yes, the heading was, "His Divine Grace has come here to hound us." And then the article was Prabhupada describing how the United Nations was a collection of dogs barking. [laughter]

Prabhupada: My point was that if you bring some dogs and ask them, "My dear dogs, sit down here peacefully. Don't bark. Don't create trouble." Will they do? Will they do?

Dr. Kapoor: No.

Prabhupada: If you keep them dogs, how it is possible they will be peaceful?

Dr. Kapoor: So long as they are dogs they will bark.

Prabhupada: It is not possible. And so long one is in the bodily concept of life-"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that"-and all of them go to the United Nation assembly... So what is the difference when a dog thinks that "I am dog. I am this dog," and an American or Indian thinks "I am a..."? Where is the difference? So as American, as Indian, as German, as Chinese, if they go there, they remain animal, and how there can be peace? That is not possible. And the peace formula is given by Krsna: bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram, suhrdam sarva-bhūtanam [Bg 5.29]. When one understands Krsna is suhrdam sarva-bhūtanam, jnatva mam santim rcchati. [Transl. Then only there will be santi.] So if you keep them as Americans or Indians or this or that, how there can be peace?

Hari-sauri: That was front page.

Dr. Kapoor: [laughs] "He's here to hound us." [laughs]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There is so much publicity in the foreign countries.]

Dr. Kapoor: [reading from paper] "His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the founder of the Hare Krsna movement, is here to save us from a dog's life." [laughter] "He's here to save us from a dog's life. For unless we cultivate some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality."

Hari-sauri: This was the New York Ratha-yatra. This was in New York Times.

Gopala Krsna: The Ratha-yatra is held on Seventh Avenue...

[several talking at once]

Prabhupada: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."

Hari-sauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."

Dr. Kapoor: "Where East Meets West." Ah.

Hari-sauri: And this one is in South Africa.

[guests look at article]

Prabhupada: Last year we introduced Ratha-yatra in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone-government official, police, public-all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was... How many miles?

Gopala Krsna: From Washington Square Park... How many miles? At least four or five miles.

Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete, from one end to the other.

Gopala Krsna: The government had sealed it off.

Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Krsna movement?

Prabhupada: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement.

Indian man: Afraid of.

Prabhupada: They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. Would you be going to China?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We have not yet gone to China also.]

Gopala Krsna: But they like Prabhupada's books. Russian scholars have praised Prabhupada's books. I was in Russia two months ago. They have praised Prabhupada's books very much.

Indian man: Sir, what is your opinion about Sai Baba? [laughter]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He has no basis on the sastra.] Jugglery.

Indian man: No avatara has declared so far that "I'm avatara."

Prabhupada: He is... What is called avatara?

Indian man: But he has declared that "I am avatara."

Prabhupada: He has no, nothing on the sastra basically. And anyone who has no sastra basics, he's useless. Yaḥ sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karataḥ na sa siddhim avapnoti [Bg 16.23]. He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam about this kind of guru. They have been condemned in Srimad-Bhagavatam. I think you'll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned.

[break] Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery, eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I've not seen.

Indian man: I don't know. He does some kind of trick.

Prabhupada: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.

Gopala Krsna: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.

Prabhupada: What is that other magic? Generally he...

Gopala Krsna: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases, and they get cured.

Prabhupada: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence? Huh?

Hari-sauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car, and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, "Oh, you have been in an accident, and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left, and therefore you were not injured." Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.

Prabhupada: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he's so powerful?

Dr. Kapoor: That is very easy. I can also do that. [laughter] I know the trick.

Prabhupada: Accha?

Gopala Krsna: What is the trick?

Dr. Kapoor: I'll not tell it to you. [laughter]

Prabhupada: No. These tricky things are... They have no...

Hari-sauri: Sometimes he conjures up different items in his hand. Like he can conjure up a watch. Or there's a particular type of nut that is found in Nepal. So some American scientist was trying to get him to...

Prabhupada: [aside] You have found out that portion?

Pradyumna: I'm just, I'm getting...

Hari-sauri: They were trying to get him to give some examples. So he refused. Then he produced this nut in his hand. Then he closed his fist and opened it again, and the nut was there but this time it had a gold cross attached to it, like this. And then he...

Prabhupada: Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result?

Indian man: B. N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that.

Prabhupada: Yes. B. N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street, and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy...

Dr. Kapoor: Motorway.

Prabhupada: Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.

Gopala Krsna: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University, along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There's another six-year-old "god" called Bhagwan Shri Krishna. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six-year-old Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was producing ash with some magic.

Prabhupada: Ash?

Gopala Krsna: Ash. So all the local..., a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded, and the child's parent admitted it was bogus. Now that "god" is finished, Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was six-year-old Sri Krsna. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, "Why should I respond to these people?"

Dr. Kapoor: He's angry for this kind of people coming to him.

Gopala Krsna: This group of professors, they're exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God.

Prabhupada: Have you got it?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupada: What is that? Acaksuḥ?

Pradyumna: Acaksuḥ.

Prabhupada: Acaksuḥ...

Pradyumna: Acaksur andhasya yathagraniḥ krtas.

Prabhupada: Abudho guru. So andha yathandhair upaniyamanaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are gurus. They are blind, and they are guru for blind men. Abudho guru. These have been described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. If we are to accept guru, so the original guru is Krsna because He instructed Lord Brahma, the first living creature within this universe. Tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye [SB 1.1.1]. He instructed the adi-kavi. He is the guru, Krsna. And in the Bhagavad-gita He also says, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg 4.1]. So He is adi-guru. In Bhagavad-gita also He is instructing Arjuna. He is adi-guru. So instead of this tricky, jugglery guru, why not people approach Krsna? Therefore acaksur andha. [Transl. This is going on.] Read this verse again.

Pradyumna: Acaksur andhasya yathagraniḥ krtas tatha janasyaviduso 'budho guruḥ.

Prabhupada: Ah. Avidusaḥ abudho guruḥ. [Transl. Such gurus are for foolish people. Not for educated persons. The genuine guru is there.]

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. So I take your leave. These people have come, they are hurry to go.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Go. Take some Prasada. Little Prasada.]

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. Prabhupada, there is one called Bala Yogi…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So many come and go. Avidusaḥ abudho guruḥ. You can bring something...]

Pradyumna: Drink?

Prabhupada: [Transl. Avidusam abudho guruḥ. No, what I mean to say is] if things are very easy, why they go roundabout way? [Trans_The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself is saying], man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bhagavad-gita 18.65]

mam evaisyasi asamsayaḥ [Bg 18.68] [Transl. By giving up this simple path why follow other paths? Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, the Supreme Lord Himself is speaking. "Think of Me." What is the difficulty? Now all these people have come and they are seeing the form of the Lord. So naturally there will be remembrance. If someone daily goes to the temple and sees the Lord then automatically man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, will be accomplished. Gradually. Then one more thing is to offer obeisances. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yaji, if one is capable then offer worship. How to worship? The Lord has said patram puspam phalam toyam [Bg 9.26].

"Give me a leaf." Even the poorest person can offer. Offer a leaf, a flower. Is it difficult? If you can't do anything then just offer obeisances. And simply by this you will go to Him. Mam evaisyasi asamsayaḥ. So why run here and there by giving up such a simple process? What's wrong? The nose is right here. Why do you have to show it like this?]

[Prabhupada gesturing his hand circling his head.]

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. Maya's influence.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Fools. That's why it says avidusah abudho guruḥ.] I went to see the Ramakrishna Mission head, Prabodhananda Swami. So just by seeing me, he immediately said that Thakura was formerly Gaura-Hari.

Indian man: What Swamiji? Gauḍiya? Gaura-Hari.

Prabhupada: Gaura Hari. [Transl. So immediately I understood what a fool he was! What is the use of talking with him?] He said "Ramakrishna Thakura, Thakura Rama... He was formerly Gaurasundara. [Transl. Gaurasundara preached devotional service to Krsna. Then He appeared again and began to worship Kali here. This we know."]

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. Kali-pūja where?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Ramakrishna was a worshiper of Kali. Kali worshiper.]

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. I see. In Gaura incarnation He preached devotional service to Krsna.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He negated all that and started worshiping Kali.]

Dr. Kapoor: [Transl. Oh, worshiped Kali.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And this we have got to believe! So who will accept it? Only fools will believe. He rescinded his previous mission and began his new mission. Gaursundar ordered everyone yare dekha tare kaha Krsna upadesa. [Cc Madhya 7.128] And in this birth He began to worship Kali! This is going on. In the sastra it is stated, the Supreme Lord Himself said kamais tais tair hrta-jnanaḥ prapadyante 'nya-devataḥ [Bg 7.20] One who worships the demigods his knowledge has been stolen. And on this verse Visvanatha Cakravarty Thakura has commented "Nasta buddhaya" or he whose inteligence has been polluted.

So, those whose inteligence has been spoiled, they worship the demigods. The person whose knowledge has been stolen and who worships Kali, he has become God! The sastra declares that such person's intelligence is polluted and he has become God! This is going on. Who will understand all this? This should be considered. Actually those who sincerely follow the path given by the acaryas they are safe. This is what we preach. And some interested persons join. We don't talk nonsense or manufacture gold or do things like that. Chant the holy name of Hari. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. [SB 1.3.28] Just accept it. That's all.]

Dr. Kapoor:

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