Garden Conversation – June 25, 1972, Los Angeles

720625GC-Los Angeles [31:33 Minutes]

He could not kill the daughter

Devotee (1): Is there any questions?

Atreya Rsi: I have a question. Kamsa's attitude, he's a demon, and when a daughter is born, he first changes his mind. Throughout this story Kamsa changes his mind several times back and forth.

Similarly, Vasudeva, when Kamsa is favorable towards him, and also Yasoda, they both change and excuse their brother and brother-in-law. How is this similarity, the change of attitude?

Prabhupada: Who ex…

Atreya Rsi: They excused Kamsa. [break] …they forgave him when Kamsa decided not to kill the daughter.

Prabhupada: No?

Atreya Rsi: The devotee…

Prabhupada: He, he killed the daughter.

Atreya Rsi: Yes.

Prabhupada: But the daughter slipped up there in the sky. [break] He could not kill the daughter. He attempted, but he could not.

Devotee (2): Prabhupada, was Kamsa..., was he aware all of this time that he was a devotee?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Was he aware this entire time that he was a devotee? He said that... I remember reading that he was a devotee.

Prabhupada: Whatever he might be, nobody remembers what he was in his past life.

Lady devotee: Is the girl child, is that Subhadra?

Devotee (1): Talk louder.

Lady devotee: Is the girl child, is that Subhadra?

Devotee (1): Was the girl child…?

Devotee: [explaining] The female child, was that Subhadra?

Prabhupada: No, Durga. She was Bhadra, not Subhadra. Bhadra is material energy, and Subhadra is spiritual energy.

Devotee (3): Why did the demons come to harass the saintly persons and shorten their duration of life?

Devotee (1): Can you say it louder?

Devotee (3): Why did the demons come to harass the saintly persons and shorten the duration of life?

Atreya Rsi: [explaining] Why did the demons come to harass the saintly persons?

Prabhupada: Answer. You answer. Answer this question, anyone.

Devotee (4): The glories, all of Krsna's pastimes, they are such that…

Prabhupada: His question is different.

Devotee (4): What is it?

Devotee (3): Why did the demons come and harass the saintly persons and shorten their life?

Devotee (4): Which..., in what relationship? Where... I'm not sure what it means...

Devotee (3): The demons were sent by Kamsa to harass the saintly persons.

Devotee (4): Yes, that's their purpose.

Devotee (3): Why?

Devotee (4): That…

Atreya Rsi: This material world, there are demons, and then there are saintly persons. This is the nature of the material world. And Krsna comes. The demons want to forget Krsna, and that's their job.

Prabhupada: Demons means who harass saintly persons. That is the definition of demon. Demons means one who harasses saintly persons and who does not believe in God. This is the definition of demon. So there is a class of men always who do not like saintly persons and do not believe in God. So they are demons.

Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva asura [Bg 16.6]. There are two kinds of men: daiva, asura; demon and demigod. Visnu-bhakto bhaved daiva asuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are called demigods, and those who are opposite number, they are called demons. The whole world is full of demons; still there are little percent of them are devotees. Otherwise the material world is full of demons.

Devotee: [in background] All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All glories to sahkirtana. Come join the sahkirtana party.

Devotee (3): The demons' business is to harass the devotees? They do nothing else?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Devotee (3): The demons, they do nothing else except harass the devotees?

Prabhupada: Demons means who harasses devotee. That is demon. Anyone who harasses devotee, he is demon.

Devotee (5): Is Rohini also a wife of Vasudeva?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Atreya Rsi: [explaining] Is Rohini a wife of Vasudeva?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Atreya Rsi: She is.

Prabhupada: So, Krsna, Balarama and Subhadra, there are different mothers; father one.

Atreya Rsi: Prabhupada, since the birth of Krsna, in the past few thousand years there are many stories about different people, in Greek story, in literature, even the birth of Moses, which exemplify in some way or another stories of Krsna. Is there any relation?

Prabhupada: There is… They have taken all these stories from Puranas. After all, these system, Greek civilization, they are within three thousand years.

Atreya Rsi: Yes.

Prabhupada: Krsna's time is five thousand years. So there is possibility of taking these stories from Krsna's life. The word Kristo is there in Greek dictionary. Kristo. And the meaning is "anointed face" or something like that. So Krsna was known. And from Kristo the word Christ has come. That is explained in that Aquarian Gospel. So it appears that Krsna was known. Formerly, all over the world the Vedic system was current. So Krsna was known.

Devotee: Prabhupada, before Lord Caitanya, for instance from the period after Krsna's birth up until the appearance of Lord Caitanya, what was, ah, what was the bona fide method for, ah… [break]

Prabhupada: …is current. Vedic [indistinct] is not new. Caitanya Mahaprabhu re-introduced it with new vigor, that's all. Otherwise it is not new introduction. Satatam kirtayanto mam. Find out.

Devotee (1):

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupada: So the chanting is long before Krsna appeared. Krsna [indistinct] all around. Caitanya Mahaprabhu revived it again. It is not a new thing.

Devotee: So up until Lord Caitanya it wasn't very widely known. Is that...?

Prabhupada: It was known, but He specifically propagated. The acarya never introduce anything new. It is already there. But according to time, they take up the… Just like doctor. A doctor, medical practitioner, he knows many medicines, but for a particular type of patient, he prescribes a medicine. It is not that the new medicine is invented for him. It is already there in the stock. But the experienced physician knows what kind of medicine will be suitable for this patient, so he gives that. It is like that. Kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha .

There is no other alternative. That means there are other alternatives, but they are not active. So all these methods are already there, but this chanting method is especially suitable for this time. That is the special introduction of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Lady devotee (2): When did Narada Muni come with the Hare Krsna mantra to this planet? And how is that…?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Lady devotee (2): When Narada Muni came to this planet and introduced the Hare Krsna mantra?

Prabhupada: I said there is no question of introduction. It is already there.

Lady devotee (2): It's always…

Prabhupada: Always there. Just like in the... [break] Satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg 9.14]. So when Krsna says satatam, satatam means always. What is the meaning of satatam?

Devotee (1): "Always."

Prabhupada: Always. Just like the sun is always there in the sky, but it appears in the morning. It is not that morning creates the sun. The sun is already there. You'll see in the morning, that's all.

Lady devotee (2): So Hare Krsna mantra, is it new to us as living entities?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Lady devotee (2): Is it new to us as living entities?

Prabhupada: New? No.

Lady devotee (2): So we have known it always.

Prabhupada: It is always existing, that I've explained. Nothing is new.

Atreya Rsi: For us as well, we knew it? We knew the Hare Krsna mantra?

Prabhupada: That is up to you. How can I say it? [laughs] So many things there are. Whether you knew or not knew, I cannot say. [chuckles]

Lady devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, when Vasudeva was talking to Nanda Maharaja, he said we're like seaweed. We come together..., they come together in the ocean, and then we become separated after a while. So in Krsna consciousness sometimes it is said that we are packed up tight in Krsna consciousness, but these other devo…

Prabhupada: That example is for material world. In the material world... Just like we are assembled here. Every one of us had our father, mother, family, but where are those families? Just like my family is in India, your family somewhere else. So we are scattered.

So that example is given. Just like in the river some straws gather together, again another wave comes and it is all scattered. We are similarly, in the ocean of time, we are simply gathering and sometimes dispersing, that's all.

Atreya Rsi: In Srimad Bhagavatam there is a very beautiful example: "As by the sweet will of the player the playthings are put together and again dispersed…"

Prabhupada: There are so many examples.

Atreya Rsi: "…again by the sweet will of the Lord…"

Prabhupada: Nothing is settled up here in this material world. But spiritual world everything is settled up.

[Prabhupada says something indistinct about the water in a fountain]

Devotee (1): There is no circulation. There should be some sort of pump to circulate the water and filter it. It's just stagnant, just sitting there.

Atreya Rsi: This is very much like Muslim countries. In the Muslim countries they keep some water, because Hazrat Muhammad said that if water is this long or this wide, it's clean. So they do not understand. They keep that much water in their homes and they think it's clean, and they always bathe in it, and it stinks, it smells.

But they still think it is clean, because Muhammad said that much water is clean, purifying. Like in every home in Iran, in the Muslim countries, they have a little water like this which is green and smelly, and they go and drink it.

Prabhupada: Rotten water, they drink?

Atreya Rsi: Yes, because in the Koran Muhammad says that... Because in Arabia there is no water, so Muhammad explained that if you come across some water which is this big, you should take a bath; it's cleansing. Because the Arabs used to take no bath.

So Muhammad encouraged taking baths and cleanliness to his disciples. But now today's disciples don't understand that. There is plenty of water, but they keep some water in their home like that just to take bath. And it smells, but they wouldn't… They would consider nonbelievers dirty. If you come to their home, they would want you to wash in there first, if you don't believe in… [laughter]

Lady devotee (2): Prabhupada many Krsna's have the same type of attitude towards religion. How is it that we can right thing to do [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: Answer.

Devotee (1): What is their attitude?

Devotee: [in background] Haribol, prabhus.

Lady devotee (2): [indistinct] They think they are following Christianity. They think they are following the teachings of Christ, but they really aren't. They really don't even know what the teachings of Christ are.

Atreya Rsi: So chant Hare Krsna.

Devotee (1): Then they're not Christians.

Lady devotee (2): Yes, but they say, you know, that "I'm already Christian. I already have my religion, so how is it [indistinct]."

Devotee (1): Let them know that we're not against their religion and that we're not, not Christians. Tell them, "Yes, that's good. But your love of God can always increase, you know."

Atreya Rsi: The fact is…

Devotee (1): You only scare them away by making them think that we're another team, you know. There's no set..., there's no set way you're gonna do it. You've got to just use your intelligence with each case. Each person's different. But just don't scare them. Try to get them to come, you know, eat prasadam. [laughs]

Atreya Rsi: But factually we are the only Christians. They are not Christian, because they do not…

Devotee (1): That's what we have to understand.

Atreya Rsi: And we have to show them.

Devotee (1): We have to actually understand that they are not actually Christians. If we think that they are Christians, see, then we're falling into their illusion. They're thinking that they are Christians, but actually… The real meaning of Christian means one who is serving God. He's christened; he's a medium.

Prabhupada: Christian, according to that Aquarian Gospel, Christian means Kristoian. Real Christian means Krsnian, Krsnian. Not Christian but Krsnian. They are Christian, real Christian. Actually Christian is a diverted word from Krsnian.

This is the fact. The Krsnian by perverted form is Christian. There is authority in the Aquarian Gospel. Actually we are… The original word is Krsnian or Kristian. Kristoian or Kristo. The word is coming.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Christ has come from the word Kristo, and Kristo is a perverted word of Krsna. So actually the word is coming from Kristo, and Kristo is Krsna. Even in India still, Krsna, one's name is Krsna, he is called Kristo.

My younger brother was named Krsna. So we were calling him Kristo, Kristo. That is common. So from Kristo, Christ has come. Christo. From Kristo-Christo; from Christo-Christian.

Devotee (1): Under the heading of Christian there are still the two classes of men, demons and devotees. So anyone who is actually sincere about learning to love God, if we simply present Krsna consciousness to them they'll take it, eventually.

And if they are a demon, then they won't take it. Then we must avoid them. If somebody is so demoniac that when we preach to them they won't accept, then we just have to move on. But if someone is really sincerely trying to follow Lord Jesus, then there won't be anything he can do but come.

Atreya Rsi: Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada are so merciful that they have picked up many demons, made devotees.

Devotee: Also possible, but…

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Svarūpa Damodara: But when Vasudeva, ah, carried child Krsna to Mother Yasoda's house, why didn't he make recognized to Mother Yasoda about the change of the child, the two children?

Prabhupada: She was sleeping. [laughter] He [she] did not know.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupada!

Prabhupada: Your answer is there. [laughter] It is stated that out of child labor she was fatigued, and she was sleeping. So simply changed. Sometimes in hospital they change. You know that? In hospital many babies are born. So doctors take bribe, they change, male child into female. One who has given male child, and by trick they change.

Devotee: Is that in India or America, or where?

Prabhupada: In India. In America maybe. I do not know. So this male child, female child changing is a long practice. It was the desire of Krsna to come to Yasoda.

Atreya Rsi: Jaya!

Prabhupada: It is the supreme arrangement.

Atreya Rsi: Jaya!

Prabhupada: Childhood pastime of all parents, it is very pleasing. So Mother Yasoda was fortunate that she could enjoy the childhood pastimes of Krsna, whereas Devaki, although Krsna was her real son, she could not enjoy. Therefore Mother Yasoda is considered more fortunate than Devaki.

Atreya Rsi: Jaya! [end]