Conversation – November 11, 1971, Delhi

[loud kirtana in background]

Mauritius man: Hmm. I think U.P.

Prabhupada: U.P.

Mauritius man: Yeah, the majority of the people from Mauritius are of Indian origin.

Prabhupada: That's good.

Mauritius man: And Bhagavad-gita is always there.

Prabhupada: Jaya.

Mauritius man: And all.

Prabhupada: I see. [break]

Mauritius man: ...your blessings on Mauritius some time?

Prabhupada: Yes, welcome. You arrange, we shall go. I'm going to Africa...

Mauritius man: Ah.

Prabhupada: ...by the twenty-third. So if you can arrange, we can go.

Mauritius man: All right, I'd be delighted to.

Prabhupada: How far it is from Nairobi?

Mauritius man: From?

Prabhupada: Nairobi. How far it is?

Mauritius man: Ah. About two hours' flight.

Prabhupada: Two hours?

Mauritius man: Yes, only. Very close.

Prabhupada: About 1,000 miles?

Mauritius man: Yes.

Prabhupada: Not very far.

Mauritius man: Yes, not far. If you keep in touch with me, we shall try to see the... Who looks after the program of Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: He is in charge of Africa.

Mauritius man: I see.

Prabhupada: Brahmananda Swami.

Mauritius man: I see, very good.

Prabhupada: He's American.

Mauritius man: Ah-hah.

Prabhupada: But he has taken to the mission for preaching in Africa. [break] [indistinct]

Mauritius man: Yes, I find them very devoted and loyal.

Prabhupada: Indians are not very forward.

Mauritius man: Very good.

Prabhupada: [to someone entering] Aiye! Aiye!

Mauritius man: How many of... [break]

Indian man: I'm a Hindu.

Mauritius man: [Hindi]

Indian man: I'm a Hindu. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Indian man: I was teaching in a [indistinct] temple in South India[?] From India[?] [indistinct]. Face to face [?].

Prabhupada: What is that?

Indian man: [indistinct] I been living for the last nineteen years in this district [indistinct] Holy Village [indistinct] Bengali....

Prabhupada: Holy Village?

Indian man: Holy Village.

Prabhupada: In Bombay?

Indian man: Bombay, I mean he passed away in 1956, Bengali. Disciple of Svami [indistinct]. I'm a freedom fighter and a journalist. [Hindi] And then I've been a journalist [indistinct]. Now I'm representative of the [indistinct] to start a home center like an asrama for aged freedom fighters. This Matha...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man: For aged and for freedom fighters, to start. They are given the pension of [indistinct] and to give them more. Not only... These Christians, they have started..., I mean, Christians have laid the foundation stone for aged [indistinct] and the government. There are so many, I mean in Bombay also there are so many also aged [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes, there are many [indistinct].

Indian man: Let me take blessings of Lord Krsna also, Hare Rama, Hare Krsna Mandir...

Prabhupada: Krsna's blessings are everywhere. [break]

Indian man: ...open[?].

Prabhupada: But nobody is prepared to take it. Krsna says:

"Just take shelter of Me and I will protect you from the reactions of all sinful life." Because here in the material world everyone is sinful-and there is reaction. He gives assurance that "I will give you protection from the reactions of sinful life. Just surrender unto Me." But nobody is doing it.

Indian man: Swamiji, your blessings that I will surrender.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man: Your kindly blessings that I surrender.

Prabhupada: Surrender means this, that "Krsna, so long I was forgotten that missing You. Now I have gotten from this day I surrender unto You. Whatever You like, You can do it." That's all.

Indian man: Swamiji, I will request you to kindly give me that feeling of dedication and surrender. Bless me to have that feeling.

Prabhupada: It does not require-you simply [indistinct] let him come. Anyone wants to come, let him come. Just like one man has fallen in the well, and he's crying, "Please get me..., get me out. Somebody please get some rope. Just catch it, I'll take it." Then where is the question now of getting a blessing? Here is the blessing: take it. But if you don't catch, or if you say that "Give me the strength to catch," this is not very good argument. Here is the rope; you catch it. That's all. But nobody is prepared to do that. Otherwise, the solution is there.

Indian man: The situation is the guru is the one who catches?

Prabhupada: The guru is speaking... Guru is speaking, "Here is a bag of million dollars. Take it," then if you take.... Why don't you take it? If you don't take it, then how you can get rich? Krsna says that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, but nobody is taking it.

These European and American boys, they are taking it up and they are advancing. But if you are not prepared to take, how you will advance? It is a plea, that "You give me your grace so that I can catch this..., that goal of devotion," is that right? I'm already offering you the rope; you catch it. That is the difficulty.

These people, they have taken it, they have surrendered, they are making progress. It is not very difficult. Just see how they are dancing in esctasy. These European boys and girls, they are in ecstasy. There is a girl, her father is a very rich man in Chicago-that is a big businessman-and she is with us. She is married; she has got husband. I get them married.

Indian man: That's good.

Prabhupada: This is the first time in history that a sannyasi is taking part in marriage making.

Mauritius man: [laughs] Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: What can be done? I have to. I cannot allow them to live as friends, you know. That is not.

Indian man: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: In Europe and America the boys and girls live as friends. I don't allow. They must get married. Krsna can protect you from all the past sinful activities, but if you again commit, that is not good. So the illicit sex is sinful activity. As soon as you surrender, Krsna excuses you from your past habits. But you don't commit again. That is our... Just like one is insolvent, so in insolvency the court hears his excuse, "All right, but don't take any more debt."

Mauritius man: That is the one.

Indian man: At the end of that.

Prabhupada: Yes. So if he takes debt, that is criminal if he is insolvent person. Just like in the court if he takes again debt, that will be criminal. The court says that, "You are unable to pay. All right, your former debts are all..."

Indian man: Squashed up.

Prabhupada: "...cleared..."

Indian man: Cleared of insolvency.

Prabhupada: "...burnt up. But don't take again." Our is like that. Krsna says, "All right, whatever sinful activities are done, I clear, but don't do again." That is required. One must be determined that "Whatever I have done, that's all right, that is being excused; but no more doing." And if we think that "Now I have taken shelter of Krsna and I will go on committing all sinful activities, and He'll excuse..." Eh? Like the Christian people say...

Indian man: Ah.

Prabhupada: ...that "Our religion is very good because Jesus Christ suffered for all our sins, so we can go on committing our sinful life, and Jesus Christ will suffer." That is not very good proposal. Jesus Christ has once, for all, he has sacrificed his life for the sins of others, and if you make a contract that "You go on suffering for us, and we will go on committing sin," that is not a very good proposition.

Indian man: Selfish motive. Self-interest.

Prabhupada: In the Vedic scriptures it is said, namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhiḥ [Bhakti-sandarbhaḥ 173], that this chanting of Hare Krsna means you become free from all sinful activities. But it does not mean that you again commit sinful activities and you think that "I will chant Hare Krsna and it will be counteracted."

Once you are forgiven, twice you are excused, but not for the third time. It's like in criminal court also. The magistrate, if the criminal says, "Sir, I did not know what was my [indistinct]." "All right, excused. Don't do it again." But if he every time says, that will not [indistinct].

Indian man: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Unfortunately, people are kept in ignorance. The enlightenment is there, Bhagavad-gita, but they are not taking it. They are not taking it. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, everything is there. You can become very happy, this life, next life and so on. They do not know how to become happy.

They want to become happy in their own way. It is entangling them, and people are suggesting, "Yes, you can execute your religious principle in your own way." How it is that? That's where they go to it. You cannot execute law in your own way. You must accept the laws of the state and execute it properly. [indistinct] [break] [indistinct]

Indian man: [indistinct] Hare Krsna [break] [kirtana concludes] [end]