Conversation in Airport and Car to New Vrindavan – June 21, 1976, Toronto, New Vrindavan
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760621CR.TOR
Conversation in Airport and
Car to New Vrindavan - June 21, 1976, Toronto, New Vrindavan 760621CR-TORONTO [65:47 Minutes]
Their mentality is not better than the animals
[at airport; noise of airport announcements throughout]
This is the dharma, and Krsna comes personally to establish it. And He makes distinction in the Fourth Chapter, dharma-samsthapanarthaya. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, abhyutthanam adharmasya [Bg 4.7]. He distinguishes between adharma and dharma. And He's establishing at the end of Ninth Chapter that the dharma is to become His devotee, to think of Him, to worship Him and to offer all obeisances to Him. And that persons who reject this dharma or who have no information of this dharma, they have to revolve in the cycle of birth and death, not achieving Krsna.
Prabhupada: The beginning is to understand this transmigration. But actually people do not understand. Cycle of birth and death... If one does not understand what is birth and death, what he'll understand of cycle of birth and death? Mostly people because they do not understand what is birth and what is death, they are mostly going on on the bodily concept of life. That is animal life. Ask anybody. Bodily concept. And everything is going on. We pass through Canada to USA. Why Canada? Why USA? This bodily concept. It is meant for the Canadians, it is meant for USA, Americans. Immigration, customs-the same mentality as a dog coming from other neighborhood. The other dogs, they all come together, "Yow, yow! Why you have come? Why you have come?" In civilized dress only. This is the position. What is the difference between the dog's mentality... When another dog comes to another neighborhood, these neighborhood dogs, you know that? All animals: "Yow! Why you have come?" So this department, "Why you have come here?" dogs barking, and this immigration, what is the difference? Is there any difference? [chuckles] This is our policy. Very difficult. [break] ...they will understand Krsna consciousness. Their mentality is not better than the animals.
Prabhupada: Yes. Worse, because animal has got some limit, but a human being who has developed consciousness, it is unlimited. Just like a thief is thief, but when an attorney-in-law is a thief, he's a very big thief. Huh?
Prabhupada: Ordinary thief and a educated thief. In your country there are many lawyers. Their only business is how to cheat.
Prabhupada: Big, big lawyers, through this real estatement. I have got bitter experience. People go to real estate man, he has got, say, five thousand dollars, and he wants to purchase one hundred thousand worth property. And they'll say, "Yes. We shall arrange." He will, in such a way, implicate, that he will take this five thousand dollars, and it will be divided amongst them. He will not give anything.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Prabhupada: Lawyer is thief, medical man is thief.
Prabhupada: Then whom to believe? Whom to believe, this is the question.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. In India. Police means everyone takes, first of all he is a corrupt.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is by the mercy of Krsna only you are saved. Otherwise, our Bombay construction was rejected by the police commissioner, that "Kirtana is nuisance." Public servant, he can say, blaspheme a religious system, Bhagavad-gita, in the same country, Bhagavad-gita. And India is condemning now, government men: "Kirtana is nuisance."
Prabhupada: They will become powerful. And people will be less intelligent-means less God conscious. Just like when the king is weak, thieves and rogues, they flourish.
Prabhupada: How you can compromise with thieves and rogues?
[pause]
Prabhupada: Boarding time?
Devotee: 4.45 it's due in. [break]
Prabhupada: ...pieces cloth. Although they are poor, still they can understand it very easily, very easily, that you are not this body; there is God; if you don't become devotee, you'll remain in this material... These things they will immediately understand.
Prabhupada: Therefore they have taken birth in India.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Prabhupada: That is due to misgovernment. There is no king; all rogues and thieves are in the government. Mismanagement. It is the government duty to see that everyone is doing nicely so that they can live peacefully, happily. There must be direction. Just like parentless children. Nobody is to take care; they'll be wretched. So India's position is like that-the parentless children. There is no good government. And they supply this control wheat that is not even touchable. Unfit for human consumption. There is a worm...
Prabhupada: Yes. They purchase from here and there all rejected wheat, and they supply it. There is no ghee, no milk, no proper food grain. Everything black market. Any necessary commodity you cannot have in the open market; you have to purchase in black market. Just like for the building purpose, cement. In your country you can purchase any amount of cement. You cannot purchase. You have to purchase black market, and that cement also mixed with some... What is that?
Prabhupada: Very akward position. And unless you give some bribe, it is not possible. [break]
Visvakarma: ...for the balcony in the church in the other room? The vyasasana. [indistinct-announcement being made]
Prabhupada: ...fit for sitting. That is very nice. And next time when I come the seat should be just Deity altar, so that all balcony can see.
Visvakarma: Seat should be...?
Prabhupada: My seat should be near the altar of the Deity.
Prabhupada: Not left-hand side. Just like you are facing Deity and there are spaces here.
Visvakarma: Between the doors.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Visvakarma: Which side, Srila Prabhupada? On the left-hand side or the right-hand side of the Deity, facing towards the altar?
Prabhupada: Any side.
Visvakarma: Any side? How far away from the front? In the middle, so that they can see from the balcony as well.
Prabhupada: Yes. [child calls out] "Prabhupada"? No.
Prabhupada: Child is...
Devotee: Could be Buffalo.
Devotee: He'll have the same benediction as Ajamila. [child calls out "Prabhupada"]
Prabhupada: He knows me. [laughs] [break]
Devotee: Should there be a canopy over top of the vyasasana?
Prabhupada: No, no canopy. [break] ...to fly to our New Vrindavan? How long it takes?
[break] [in car after arrival]
Prabhupada: Let us see what is the reception. [break] We have come from a different way. From Buffalo.
Kirtanananda: Yes, you had to come from Buffalo. [break] ...take to get to Buffalo?
Prabhupada: Three hours.
Prabhupada: Hour and half?
Prabhupada: No, no, from...
Kirtanananda: To the airport from Toronto?
Kirtanananda: Some devotees were there from Buffalo?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. [break]
Kirtanananda: ...had a very nice place for you.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. [break] People are being kept in such an ignorant way that they do not care about sinful activities. They can do anything for sense gratification. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Actually, there is no advancement of civilization. They are thinking they are running on four-wheel motorcar, and the dog is running on four legs. What is the quality change? This is going on in the name of civilization, and people are kept in ignorance. Where is the advancement? Running by motorcar is advancement? They have no knowledge that there is next life, and "Today I am running on Ford car, tomorrow I may have to run like dog on four legs."
Kirtanananda: They do not think like that.
Prabhupada: So this is ignorance, this is ignorance. And they are kept, the whole world-the state, the father, the guardian, everyone, the priest-[indistinct] knowledge. Dull-headed, ignorant. And they are passing on as philosopher, scientist, religious leader.
[break] ...hard to bring them to Krsna consciousness. Taking these few years, fifty years or sixty years living here, and dance like dog and finish. There is no life. We will die peacefully and our chapter is finished. People not die peacefully; they cry. Hare Krsna.
Kirtanananda: How to save them is very difficult.
Prabhupada: Simply chanting. This is the only. Give them chance to come and chant with us, take prasadam. Then after few days or few months, let them understand the philosophy.
Kirtanananda: We have all got this experience.
Prabhupada: You have all got this experience. This is the only way. I started this movement on this determination, that "They have nothing to give. Simply by propaganda they are exacting so many people and befooling them. And I'll give them prasadam, nice chanting, and they will not come? They must come." This was my determination. And I began with this.
Kirtanananda: I remember.
Kirtanananda: I think it was just ten years ago when I first met you.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: This month.
Prabhupada: I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this, you have to..." Never said it. Then gradually, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12]. When the heart becomes cleansed, then little [indistinct]. There is no hopelessness. Because so many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of hopelessness. But you cannot expect that cent per cent people will come. That is not possible. But even, even one-fourth per cent people will come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still we have made some impression, the Hare Krsna movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on-in this way, as I have given you instruction-it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is sure. And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class-tenth class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara. [Prarthana, song 39, Text 2] Caitanya Mahaprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahaprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brahmanas, sages, saintly persons-no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Kali-yuga, all fallen. Don't be disappointed. Go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes with Dr. Mishra, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live? And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?
Kirtanananda: June or July. June or July, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes, June or July. Yes, June.
Kirtanananda: I think it was June.
Prabhupada: Yes. There were others; they have left. That Mr. Green.
Prabhupada: And Ravindra-svarupa.
Kirtanananda: Another one, Carl, Carl.
Prabhupada: Carl, yes. He has left. To Washington directly? This road?
Kirtanananda: Not Washington, D.C. This is Washington, Pennsylvania.
Prabhupada: This is Pennsylvania state?
Kirtanananda: Yes. The girls were saying that today at the airport was the most demoniac day they ever had.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Kirtanananda: Today was the most demoniac day at the airport they've ever had. They're getting very, very nasty. Every time they talked to someone, they come up and they say, "Don't take it. Don't take it. They're ripping you off. They're 'Moon' people," like that.
Prabhupada: "Moon people"? What is that?
Kirtanananda: You know there's a lot of publicity right now about this Korean so-called spiritual master, Moon.
Kirtanananda: It is causing a big stir, these "Moon" people. He has just bought the hotel in New York for five million dollars.
Prabhupada: He is also against our movement?
Kirtanananda: Well, I wouldn't say... He never says anything about our movement. I don't think. I never read anything. But they are equating us with him. The public is sometimes equating us with him and these other rascals. He claims that Jesus Christ never lived to fulfill his mission, which was to establish the perfect family. They killed him before he got married. So he has come, and he has all these wives. At least, he used to..., always, whenever any of his disciples would get married, first he would have their wife.
Prabhupada: And they're doing that? [laughs]
Kirtanananda: People cannot distinguish between what is true and what is bogus. [break]
Prabhupada: ...sophistication. [break] ...reminds me of a place in Germany. Heidelberg.
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Like New Vrindavan?
Kirtanananda: Yes, you'll find so many places in this country named... This probably was originally a settlement of German people from Heidelberg.
[break] I don't know. It was a chemical plant.
Prabhupada: Oh. These things are not required at all, but they have created. They are called anartha, unnecessarily diverting valuable attention of the human being to waste their time and energy and next life become a dog. That they do not know. This science is unknown to them. They'll believe, "This life finished, everything finished." That's all. [break] ...is working. That they do not know. Life is eternal, and how we are under this cycle of birth and death, nothing. Yavad jivet sukham jivet. Carvaka Muni's philosophy. "So long you live, live happily." But actually they are not living happily. To work in this factory is not happy. He has got suffering. But they are thinking they are happy. Just like the hog eating stool, he is happy. This is gross ignorance. Actually, therefore, there is revolt against these capitalist. There is another unhappiness. Now there is strike. So where is happiness? If there is happiness, why there is strike? Why there is so many strikes? Why there is protest? There is no happiness, but they are thinking it is happiness. Whole thing is based on ignorance, maya. Anartha upasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje. And the direct method for subduing these anarthas, unnecessary troubles-bhakti-yoga. There is no other way. Only bhakti-yoga. Anarthopasamam saksad bhakti-yogam adhoksaje, lokasya ajanatah [SB 1.7.6]. People do not know it. Vidvams cakre satvata-samhitam. Therefore Vyasadeva, most learned scholar, he has made this Bhagavatam. Anarthopasamam saksat. [break] I was translating the Bhagavatam, Eighth Canto, Twelfth Chapter.
Prabhupada: Twenty-four. Twenty-four. Half finished. Half finished, Eighth Canto.
Kirtanananda: What is Eighth Canto like? What does Eighth Canto contain?
Prabhupada: Eighth Canto? There is churning of the ocean and producing nectar, and the demons, they did not receive the nectar. There was fight.
Prabhupada: Gajendra, that is I think Seventh Canto, no?
Prabhupada: Yes. Gajendra also.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Each volume is more wonderful. Each volume...
Prabhupada: Ah? Oh, yes. There is no comparison of this literature.
Kirtanananda: I think before you came, Bhagavatam was unknown.
Prabhupada: Unknown, yes. The Ramakrishna Mission published one Bhagavatam commentary. You know that? Farce. They, these Ramakrishna Mission people, have done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture. Mess up. Of course, it is not taken very seriously, Ramakrishna Mission.
Prabhupada: But they publicized in India that they have all, everyone, become Hindu. In India they were doing like that: "Vivekananda Road," "Vivekananda Square," and rascals, they do not inquire even what is Vivekananda's contribution. Gaddalika-pravaha [blind following or imitation].
Prabhupada: In Vrndavana they have got hospital and Ramakrishna temple. Who is going there? This is practical example. In our temple, thousands and thousands of the foreign boys and girls are coming, and who is going there? If it was actually they did something, they should at least have gone there out of inquisitiveness: "Oh, where is Vivekananda?" Nobody goes there. Not even to pass urine there. [laughter] [break]
Kirtanananda: That Japanese tape recorder.
Prabhupada: And Hichai is... This is called hitchhike?
Prabhupada: That is "hitchhike," and this is Hitch-hi.
Prabhupada: Hitachi, yes. This is a church?
Kirtanananda: No, this is an institution, state institution for old people or mental home. I forget. "Western State School." [break]
Prabhupada: ...Hayagriva.
Kirtanananda: I think he's in Los Angeles.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: I'm trying to get him to bring his boy to New Vrindavan. He's down there with those meat-eaters.
Prabhupada: She is not agreeable? I think that she is not very well treated by her husband.
Kirtanananda: No.
Prabhupada: Therefore... Otherwise, she is a good girl.
Kirtanananda: Hayagriva's very difficulty to deal with.
Prabhupada: I know she is good girl. He has disrupted his family also.
Kirtanananda: If a devotee doesn't follow the principles, then he is sure to suffer. Nothing can be good in his family life.
Prabhupada: I thought that he is happy in family life. His father and mother came to congratulate him.
Kirtanananda: He was better shape when I saw him last week than I've seen him in a long time.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kirtanananda: He was better in Los Angeles when I saw him last week than I've seen him in a long time.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: He never lost his sentiment for you.
Prabhupada: No, that I know. Therefore I like.
Kirtanananda: But he's addicted to his past habits.
Prabhupada: He'll be corrected. There is no hopelessness.
Kirtanananda: I've always felt that, but it makes it difficult to live with him in the meantime. [Prabhupada laughs]
[break] There are some roads, large size roads, Los Angeles. That is America everywhere.
Kirtanananda: Big cars and big roads.
Prabhupada: Opulence.
Prabhupada: They have got cars and they have got roads also. Very good. That's all right. But why they should give up the real business of life?
Prabhupada: There was no preaching. There was no education on this subject. The Christian priests, they are unable to...
Kirtanananda: They have no knowledge themselves. How they can teach?
Prabhupada: Yes. They are now asking... In Melbourne the priest asked me, "Swamiji, why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" I told them, "What you have not done?" [laughs] They were little insulted.
Prabhupada: Perhaps he got some shock when I said that "What you have not done?" They received me very well. [break]
Kirtanananda: Altogether about an hour and half. About forty-five minutes more.
Prabhupada: What is being done with Hayagriva's house?
Kirtanananda: I bought that from him. There are a few devotees there right now.
Prabhupada: No, the other house.
Kirtanananda: Which one? Up at the original farm?
Prabhupada: No, not original.
Kirtanananda: That's the one I'm talking about.
Prabhupada: Tulasi?
Kirtanananda: No, they're just wild flowers.
Prabhupada: Very nice.
Prabhupada: Yes. Oh! This is Vrndavana. Let me try. [indistinct]
[break] [Prabhupada is taking prasadam]
Kirtanananda: There's plenty of milk and ghee.
Prabhupada: This is human food. They do not know how to eat, the Westerners. [break]
Kirtanananda: ...ever eat these nice foods they give up so much sinful activity, very easily.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Kirtanananda: By just eating nice foods they can give up so much sinful activity.
Prabhupada: Who has made them?
Kirtanananda: Different devotees-mother Lakhima, mother [indistinct].
Kirtanananda: Tamala said this is the only place in the US now they have Vedic cooking. [break]
Prabhupada: ...facility to get enough ghee. You have got the chance.
Kirtanananda: Feast? Yes.
Prabhupada: What did they say after eating these things? [break]
Kirtanananda: ...Indians come and they always say, "Who has taught you to cook like this?" We tell them, "Srila Prabhupada has taught us everything."
Prabhupada: At this 26 Second Avenue, Kirtanananda Maharaja, Satsvarupa, [indistinct].
[break] Many Indians come?
Kirtanananda: Yes. [break] ...membership program now.
Prabhupada: Six hundred.
Kirtanananda: In Toronto?
Prabhupada: Generally, they are engaged in education.
Prabhupada: There are many medical practitioners, Indians. I have..., I learned that British people, they like Indian physicians.
Prabhupada: They have got faith that these people treat carefully. One civil surgeon is a Bengali in London. Civil surgeon. You have heard this Aurobindo? His father was a medical practitioner in England, and he was born there.
Prabhupada: Indian families, they are living for two, three generation. [break] ...teaching them how to make home comfortable, they'll be trained up to become prostitutes. How to kill child. [break]
Prabhupada: Nowhere there is good cook except here. [laughter] Kirtanananda Maharaja is good cook.
Kirtanananda: Prabhupada knows how to flatter. Well, I think even we could not cook so good in Boston or New York. Without being in Vrindaban and the natural ingredients, it is not so...
Prabhupada: You can supply them ghee.
Kirtanananda: Yes, we can do that. [break]
Prabhupada: You grow pudina? Pudina? Mint? Mint?
Kirtanananda: Mint? Yes.
Prabhupada: Chutney.
Kirtanananda: Mint chutney. How do you make mint chutney?
Prabhupada: I'll teach you. You have got mango?
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: I'll teach you. Chili?
Kirtanananda: They are not ripe yet. The plants are still too small for this year.
Prabhupada: They are not giving chili?
Kirtanananda: Not yet. It is too early. In August. But I can get. I can get green chili. [break]
Prabhupada: ...something to drink?
Kirtanananda: No.
Prabhupada: ...because it is so nice.
Kirtanananda: That is your mercy.
Prabhupada: So this was my dream, that a place should be there where we can get all nice foods, best foods, of milk. Krsna is fulfilling that desire. Everything's there. Simply these rascals, they do not know how to live, how to eat. Everything there. Intelligence is there, everything is there. Simply for want of training they have become rogues. Make them human beings, your countrymen. Everyone should follow the duty, materially and spiritually. Anyway... Whether is very nice here, this climate. The winter season I couldn't…Not good. [laughs] These months, June, July, August, up to September?
Kirtanananda: No, actually up to November. The devotees like the winter, though.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Kirtanananda: It is even more conducive to think of Krsna in the winter.
Prabhupada: So the neighborers, they like it? Neighborhood men?
Kirtanananda: Most of them like us. There are a few that don't like us. But they are not violent. They are a little nasty.
Kirtanananda: The state police in this local area has become very favorable to us. During that quarantine the state police had to stay there. So they even began to come to arati. They took our books; they were reading. There's been a lot of change in some of the government. Some of the government men are now much favorable, more understanding.
Prabhupada: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.
Kirtanananda: The sheriff is very favorable, the judge. That judge that came to see you last time you were here, he still keeps a picture of you in his desk.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Kirtanananda: When the palace is finished we will have nice ceremonies, and many of the local dignitaries will come. [break]
Prabhupada: ...begins?
Kirtanananda: Moundsville is that way about five miles. We are almost to New Vrindavan now. Two miles.
Prabhupada: Yes. Our post office is Moundsville.
Kirtanananda: Yes. Do you want to go directly to your quarters, or do you want to stop by the temple?
Prabhupada: Yes, temple. Deities open?
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then... [break] Actually it is gradually expanding in these quarters. [break]
Kirtanananda: ...be on local television soon. That will be very good propaganda for us.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is shown? Or no, not yet.
Kirtanananda: Not yet.
Prabhupada: One thing you have missed: how we are preparing all these foodstuff.
Kirtanananda: It was too short. In the movie? It was too short how to prepare it?
Prabhupada: Yes. How from milk in different stages you get this foodstuff, kachoris, siṅgara, sandesa, rabri. And this chana, if fried, if you prepare nicely with little hing and ginger, then it will exactly taste like meat. They'll forget. If you give them without telling them, they will think that they're eating meat.
Kirtanananda: Hing and what? Prepare with hing and...?
Prabhupada: Ginger.
Kirtanananda: Ginger.
Prabhupada: They prepare the semiliquid meat like that. You give them little piece and they will not understand that it is not meat. [laughs]
Prabhupada: With urad dal, you can prepare fishy taste.
Prabhupada: [laughs] Yes. Anyone who is not taking urad dal, he must be taking fish silently, secretly. [break]
Kirtanananda: Not on this side, other side. I want to buy that farm there.
Prabhupada: This barn, Vrindaban. What is this building?
Kirtanananda: They are constructing a... I have a big carpenter shop, a construction shop, a printing shop. And upstairs there will be a big hall for Janmastami that holds seven, eight hundred people. There is another... That's our guesthouse building we're building there. You can see the top two floors, with the arches.
Prabhupada: What is this? Another barn?
Kirtanananda: This is an ox barn here.
Prabhupada: No, this.
Kirtanananda: That tank? That tank we are making for grain storage.
Prabhupada: Oh, much improvement. [end]
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