Room Conversation

November 8, 1977, Vrndavana
(Hindi conversation between kaviraja, Prabhupada and others)
Tamala Krsna: Krsna dasa? Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said. (Hindi bhajanaHindi)
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? We got some news of some preaching. I was wondering what was a good time to read to you.
Prabhupada: Here.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Like to hear it, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: I could come later on if you think it's better.
Prabhupada: No. [break] (Hindi) Tamala Krsna?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Give facility for him, ten rupees.
Tamala Krsna: This gentleman?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Ten rupees.
Prabhupada: And some fruits.
Tamala Krsna: Uncut.
Prabhupada: Uncut, yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: I'll give him the fruits now, Srila Prabhupada? I have some fruits. I can give him now?
Prabhupada: Hm. (Hindi)
Indian man: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: What did Prabhupada say?
Svarupa Damodara: Prabhupada wants to do here. He's going to...
Tamala Krsna: Is he going to do it here?
Svarupa Damodara: Prabhupada's requesting here. He said it's better if we do it here. So he said, "Make all the arrangements necessary."
Tamala Krsna: He wants to bring the brahmanas to inaugurate the Bombay temple, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: That we shall consider later.
Tamala Krsna: 'Cause we already told these South Indian brahmanas to come.
Prabhupada: Some of them may go also.
Tamala Krsna: Do you know this man from a long time ago?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: He wants some money for some temple?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Hm. Now stop talking. (long pause) You have given him ten rupees?
Giriraja: Yes. He gave ten rupees.
Svarupa Damodara: Tamala gave him ten rupees?
Giriraja: Yes. Srila Prabhupada? Would you like soft kirtana now, or quiet?
Prabhupada: You were reading something?
Giriraja: Oh, Tamala Krsna. He's... [break] Yesterday I spent the day in Delhi, and I opened an account with the Punjab Bank in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. And we also gave them a letter that the interest from the ten lakhs sixty thousand should go into that Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity account. And I took the original trust of the new trust, the original deed, and I made some photocopies and got them notarized by notary.
Prabhupada: Photocopy of?
Giriraja: Of the trust deed forming the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust. And then I bought a copy of the income tax act, because there's some provision that if funds are used to restore some ancient place of worship or some place of worship which is famous in a particular state, then that is exempt from income tax. So I think that this fits in with the aims and objects of this new trust. So we should be able to get tax exemption for that. I spoke to Bombay to see how things were doing, and Gopala Krsna said that everything is going nice, and he's coming here on Friday, after two days. So I told him that your condition was very serious and that I wanted to stay here for a little longer. So he said that was okay. I confirmed with Yasodanandana Swami's assistant that he sent the letter to the South Indian brahmanas to confirm that they can come on the dates which we have fixed. So we're waiting to hear that reply.
Prabhupada: You can take some brahmana from here. Balaram...
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: They'll chant Veda-mantra very nice
Giriraja: Uh-huh. We can have these brahmanas and also the South Indian brahmanas. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? So a letter came. One boy wrote me a letter. When I was going to go to China a while ago, before you told me not to, this boy was working with me. And his name is Jita-rati. So he went to China, and he's written a report. Should I read it to you?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: "My dear Tamala Krsna Goswami and Dhrstadyumna Swami: Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your feet. All glories to our beloved spiritual master Srila Prabhupada. May Lord Krsna, if He so desires, please cure Srila Prabhupada. I'm writing this letter as a brief report on the recent events as a result of my trip to Kwangchow, Canton China. I arrived on October 16th. Businessattended the Trade Fair but signed no contracts as all the prices were far too high. Research on some items may result in future business. Sankirtanaour real business: I gave two Chinese Bhagavad-gitas to the Chungshan University, or Dr. Sun Yatsen University as it is called now, in Canton. They were accepted by the administration with assurance of being delivered to the appropriate departments. I inquired from the liaison office how to visit the university. They said it must be prearranged, but they did not know how. From past experience..." This boy had gone to China once before, Srila Prabhupada. He's a Canadian. He says, "From past experience..." He's one of your disciples. "From past experience, because of limited time, I decided to just go, although warned not to. I walked past the guard's house at the gate of the university, hoping not to be seen. After I got forty to fifty yards, when a woman came running after me yelling in Chinese. I finally turned to her and said, 'No, it is all right,' and smiled and I kept walking on. She retreated, by Krsna's grace, and I went on to the first building, where I saw some books through the windows. As I approached the front door, the first person I met was a middle-aged woman who spoke good English. She was a biology teacher, and we discussed the life principle as she took me to the history department and then reception. There, with two other Chinese persons, we discussed Chinese politics, and I explained the natural social body, varnasrama." He was discussing varnasrama with them. "However, as they began to understand how much sense it made, they said I had better talk to the people of the political philosophy but were unwilling to arrange it, and I was unable to also. They admitted to still having a class society in China, but the goal was to have no classes, with the means of production so arranged that everyone could have what they wanted. Such demons. They accept Marx, Lenin and Mao as absolute authority and plan to spread this perfect social system, as they call it, all over the world. I gave one Gita to the main public library. They accepted when they found out that I was a Canadian and thanked me very much. Then, on October 25th, with saffron dhoti and Chinese cymbals, I went out on the main street in Kwangchow in the evening, chanting the holy name." This is in China, Srila Prabhupada. "At first there were many suspicious looks, but in a few minutes I had a large crowd following me. Soon the children were running in front, with some of them dancing. I also began to dance, and a loud uproar ensued from the audience. The crowd grew larger and extended out into the road, where the buses began to honk their horns. Just then a cymbal fell from the string to the ground. As I picked it up and repaired it, the crowd came very close all around and tightly crowded. I chanted loudly, 'Hare Krsna,' and heard one 'Krsna,' in return. I responded with 'Krs-na' loudly, and three or four answered. Soon I had about twenty responding to the chant, but decided to go on, as the crowd was getting too big. A few minutes later a man broke through the crowd and grabbed my arm and motioned me to stop. I continued, and soon another grabbed the other arm and pulled me into a shop, closed the doors and offered me a seat. The crowd responded with an uproar and banged on the doors for a little while. I had to wait about fifteen minutes until a person came who spoke English. He told me I was causing interference with traffic, and soon after they let me go. I did not go out again as I did not want to agitate them too far. I had previously chanted in a bus and showed the people pictures of Krsna. It was very ecstatic. I have been told since then that the incidents would be heard of by nearly everyone in Kwangchow as a conversation topic. Perhaps the name of Krsna will also be repeated many times by many people..." [break] Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So China has sacrificed everything. What is their aim?
Tamala Krsna: In China? Their aim... They say that their aim is to establish a classless society where everyone gets everything that they require. Economic aim.
Prabhupada: What aim? Low-class men.
Tamala Krsna: Their entire outlook is an economic one. They have no... They don't feel that there's any importance to culture or any of the finer sentiments except that they may further the economic consideration. Politically also, their political understanding is also ultimately directed for economics. Any of their political dealings with other countries are all ultimately to establish this economic Communism.
Prabhupada: How human society is falling down.
Tamala Krsna: From the definition given in the Vedas, they don't classify as human beings.
Prabhupada: Don't try for China.
Tamala Krsna: You had said that before a few times also. They are completely restricted in every respect. Whereas in other..., East European countries and in Russia, the professors may read various types of literature, in China they're not allowed to do that. And if they are ever caught doing that, they immediately are sentenced to prison and they lose everything. The difference in China as opposed to Russia is that in China every few years all the professors are made to be farmers. And also the workers in the factories and the farmers are the predominate controllers of the universities. They are not at all interested in culture or in higher education. Their whole purpose even for the universities is to train up loyal Chinese citizens. Everything is for that end. So no cultural interest would ever be tolerated on the part of the authorities there. And the people are so much controlled by these authorities that they would lose everything.
Prabhupada: Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. (pause)
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? You said before that you..., that it is said that you were poisoned?
Prabhupada: No. These kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned.
Tamala Krsna: Did anyone tell you that, or you just know it from before?
Prabhupada: I read something.
Tamala Krsna: Ah, I see. That's why actually we cannot allow anyone else to cook for you.
Prabhupada: That is good.
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja was telling that one acarya, Sankaracarya, of the Sankaracarya linethis was a while agohe was poisoned to death. Since that time, none of the acaryas or the gurus of the Sankaracarya line will ever take any food cooked except by their own men.
Prabhupada: My Guru Maharaja also.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. You, of course, have been so merciful that sometimes you would take prasada cooked by so many different people.
Prabhupada: That should be stopped. (pause)
Tamala Krsna: Are you feeling any pain, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No. (pause) Urine bottle.
Tamala Krsna: Urine? You want to try for it? Okay. Should we again continue some kirtana Srila Prabhupada? Okay. (Hamsaduta leads kirtana)
Prabhupada: Hm. Through.
Upendra: Fifty, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Tamala Krsna: "...your letter with enclosures as on reverse. Kindly accept yourself and convey my humble obeisances to my ailing father, and Lord Krsna will protect and we have nothing to worry about. Without touching details right now, as desired by you, I beg to submit that a meaningful 'further discussion...' " Remember, I had mentioned to him that we could have a further discussion if we had any questions, "...that a meaningful 'further discussion' could be ensued between us on the subject of settlement upon receipt of a confirmatory letter from the bank concerned either to you or to me directly as to the scheme purported to have been devised by ISKCON. No discussion, perhaps you will agree, without bank's letter, will serve any purpose towards a settlement. If it is a fait accompli, I feel sure the bank's letter describing the arrangements in so many words might bear salutary effect on our further discussions as propounded by your good self."
Prabhupada: Hm. So?
Tamala Krsna: That's one point about... Actually, I simply asked him for the name of his bank and the bank account, but he doesn't seem to want to give that at this point. Seems to have some other idea. Very legally worded letter. "3) Panchashil. I do not stay there, albeit my daily visits. Once I have read somewhere, not the copy sent by you, this draft conveyance, and this is a bunkum." He calls it a bunkum. Are you familiar with that word, Srila Prabhupada? I think it means like a hoax or something. "The wordings are incoherent and contradictory. The assigners, promoters, are described as overlord. The lessers, superlord, and assignees, purchasers, have been reduced to a transient resident, if not fugitive debtor. In my opinion, causes are there for criminal prosecution against the promoters. Without capable and competent lawyers' help, this legal matter should not be handled. Until then, keep it in abeyance. Your all the papers as mentioned..." I sent him a copy of the scheme, Srila Prabhupada, as well as a copy of the draft... "All of your papers, as mentioned, are sent herewith back to you." He didn't choose to keep them. "While awaiting the bank's comments, I beg to remain respectfully yours, M.M. De." He says, "The enclosures are sent under ordinary post to avoid heavy postage in this cover." He decided to send them by a separate post because it would have been a few extra paisa.
Prabhupada: Unless the bank confirms, he does not take it seriously. Is it not?
Tamala Krsna: That's more or less what he's suggesting.
Prabhupada: So let the bank confirm. What is the harm? Hm? The bank is not going to confirm?
Tamala Krsna: Oh, the bank will do whatever we ask them to do.
Prabhupada: Then let them confirm.
Tamala Krsna: If he gives us the bank name and the account of his, then by getting the first monthly installment, then automatically it's confirmed.
Prabhupada: I think you should send him Panchashil. If the bank can send the money, Panchashil?
Tamala Krsna: To Panchashil. Yeah.
Prabhupada: Why they suppose?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I personally don't feel at this point... Frankly speaking, I don't think that this reply on his part is very good. I don't think it's proper. He's speaking about a settlement. First of all there is no settlement. The whole legal way in which he's worded this letter indicates to me that he's not taking things in a very... Seems to me he has some motives. He has no reason to doubt this scheme. That's my point. And if he's thinking that he has some kind of rights... [break] ...offices. They're very pleased. And they were especially pleased to get these fixed deposits. Immediately we gave them this six lakhs' fixed deposits, they were very happy with this. They've got about something like 350 accounts already from outsiders within a month or two. They're very, very pleased. They feel that this will become a full branch very quickly, and they have a great amount of space, and they're not at all sorry about the price that they're paying. And it's a good income for our temple.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Nearly ten thousand rupees a month.
Prabhupada: Why ten thousand?
Tamala Krsna: I don't think it's quite ten thousand. I think it's less. Eight or nine thousand. Four rupees....
Prabhupada: No. It is... Plus interest of the money.
Tamala Krsna: Plus interest of the... Of which money?
Prabhupada: The deposit money.
Tamala Krsna: Fixed deposit money. Well, of course, but that we would have gotten anywhere. But from the point of view of rent it is certainly very substantial rent. That was your scheme, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: No, Krsna is giving us all facility. Utilize it.
Tamala Krsna: I especially like that bank, because when you come in, in the center of the wall, instead of seeing some old grumpy-looking bank president, we see Your Divine Grace's effulgent picture, and it says, right under your picture-it's a very big pictureit says "I.O.B. Welcomes You." It's very nicely done. And in each of the teller's counters, each of the cashier's counters, there's a little picture of Radha-Rasabihari.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, it's very nicely done. People who go there bank with confidence.
Prabhupada: And they are getting benefit.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. It was the proper bank to have there. And because it's right on the ground floor and just near the entrance of the gate, people don't mind coming from the outside. And I've noticed people, after they come and do their banking business, they go for darsana.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Tamala Krsna: Maybe our Deity will get known that people who bank in our bank, they get more money. (laughs) I think the I.O.B. is thinking like that, that to be connected with the Deity is very auspicious, so they're accentuating the involvement with ISKCON and Your Divine Grace and Radha-Rasabehari.
Prabhupada: That's a fact.
Tamala Krsna: We had no idea how that Hare Krishna Land would ever be successful.
Prabhupada: Yes. It was a jungle.
Tamala Krsna: That's what we were thinking. "Why does Prabhupada want us to live in a jungle?" So far away. Nothing there but mosquitoes, and so many rats. We thought, "Who will come there?"
Prabhupada: Now when we construct the other building, further down, it will be (indistinct).
Tamala Krsna: Godown will be on the ground floor, and residences and Gurukula on the other floors. The only problem is that it's such a good place that now we can't get the residents to move out of those other buildings. They say, "Why should we move? Now we have a temple. There'll be a Gurukula. There's a bank." It's very hard to get them out. Of course, we don't care if they stay, if they're nice.
Prabhupada: Gradually they'll be devotee.
Tamala Krsna: Either they'll be devotees or they'll be driven out by the maha-mantra. The upper floor of each of those buildings has also increased the utilization of those buildings. That was also your scheme, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That was my scheme, but we have not given full freedom to the tenant, or controllment(?).
Tamala Krsna: We're always on their heads.
Prabhupada: You take four brahmanas from South India, four from Vrndavana, and four from...
Tamala Krsna: Bombay.
Prabhupada: In this way, make it gorgeous.
Tamala Krsna: I'm just thinking, Srila Prabhupada, that each of these brahmanas have their own style and method, and by bringing three different groups, it will be a..., you know, there may be some disagreement amongst them.
Prabhupada: Go on like that.
Tamala Krsna: Who should be... They will adjust. Each one should have a head brahmana plus three other assistants.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay.
Prabhupada: Yasodanandana should be head.
Tamala Krsna: Yasodanandana should be the head. He better come back earlier. I heard that he's only coming back one or two days before the actual ceremony, to India. That doesn't seem like it's enough time.
Prabhupada: Call one week early.
Tamala Krsna: One week. Very grand event. There is no such project like that anywhere else in India, or in the world. Would you like to hear kirtana, Srila Prabhupada? [break] (kaviraja arrivesHindi discussions; Bhagatji arrives)
Bhakti-caru: It's less now, this restlessness and the pain.
Kaviraja: (Hindi conversation)
Bhakti-caru: He didn't pass urine after that. Last one is at five past twelve.
Bhavananda: That's all. He hasn't passed any.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhakti-caru: He asking about urine, Srila Prabhupada, whether you passed urine afterwards. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Tamala is there?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So, you reply letter of M.M. De, "In the absence of your bank abeyance(?), we shall send you the money to your house address, and other address, since you do not disclose, we cannot send it."
Tamala Krsna: His other address, since he does not disclose, we cannot send it.
Prabhupada: Hm. "You'll get your money at your house." Is that all right?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada? Do you want us to give something towards repairing this Caitanya Mahaprabhu Mandir?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Any amount in particular that you want to be given?
Prabhupada: Make an estimate.
Tamala Krsna: There's some maximum amount?
Prabhupada: Bhagatji.
Bhagatji: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: You can assist?
Bhagatji: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka can go with him. This man that came yesterday was Visvanath Misra?
Bhagatji: Balaram.
Tamala Krsna: The man who came yesterday was Balaram Misra?
Bhagatji: Yes, Balaram Misra.
Tamala Krsna: Yesterday, that was Balaram Misra or that was Visvanath Misra?
Bhagatji: Balaram.
Prabhupada: Have some kirtana.
Devotees: Jaya. (kirtana)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: What did Prabhupada say?
Bhakti-caru: Whether that temple belongs to some particular person.
Tamala Krsna: (aside:) Find out who that temple belong to.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Bhagatji.
Bhagatji: (Hindi with Prabhupada and another Indian) (whispering in background)
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali-gives Prabhupada something to drink)
Prabhupada: (Bengali) [break]
Tamala Krsna: ...preaching.
Prabhupada: Ask him not to do any more...
Tamala Krsna: Not to do anymore, unless he does it here.
Prabhupada: If he cannot do here...
Tamala Krsna: Seems like he's mostly after money, Srila Prabhupada. Is that true?
Prabhupada: Everyone says like that.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. I got that feeling when I saw him. I felt it was very inappropriate that he should come here and in your con-dition he should be pressing you for money like that. I didn't feel it was very proper. So, er, Bhagatji is going to be going to look at that temple, so I can tell him that he should tell Balaram Misra that unless he does the puja here, then don't do it.
Prabhupada: Bhagatji has not gone?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I'm going to go over to his house right now and just see, Srila Prabhupada. All right? And if Bhagatji's still home, I'll tell him that he should tell that to Balaram Misra. Either he does the puja here or don't do it at all. Is that all right?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: You want him to do it here, though?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: All right. I'll do that, Srila Prabhupada. I'll come back and let you know what happened. In case Bhagatji's already gone, then... I'll investigate, Srila Prabhupada, right now.
Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhavananda: Upendra and I would like to give you a massage. Is that all right? But to do good, full job, we have to lay you on your back. Is that all right?
Prabhupada: Yes. Whatever you like. [break] (Hindi)
Indian devotee: (Hindi with Prabhupada and Bhakti-caru about preaching and distributing books)
Jayapataka: (Bengali about books)
Tamala Krsna: They say that Mayapur's book distribution will soon be rivaling the... [break]
Indian devotee: (Hindi with others)
Bhakti-caru: He gave a medicine yesterday to control the stool, so we have to get it today.
Kaviraja: Pulse over ninety.
Tamala Krsna: Ninety. That's not bad. But is it strong or weak?
Kaviraja: Stronger.
Tamala Krsna: Your pulse is stronger now, Srila Prabhupada. Sastriji says that your pulse is normal rate and stronger. I think the kirtana is having a good effect, Srila Prabhupada.
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Prabhupada about hari-nama as medicine)
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji was saying that when he gives someone medicine, he gives the medicine, and then because he's a doctor, he doesn't care it may work or not work. But with you, he said he's become too much attached. He says he does not know why, but he's become very much attached, and now he's too much determined that his medicine must work. He can't feel indifferent when he treats you.
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Prabhupada)
Bhakti-caru: (to Bhavananda) He's explaining about the medicine that if he gets the medicine it will be all right.
Bhavananda: Which medicine?
Bhakti-caru: The one that he went to look for in the forest.
Bhakti-caru: He's telling that Prabhupada's condition is not bad right now. (indistinct) take care of him and Prabhupada shouldn't be left alone.
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Prabhupada) (sound of blood pressure pump) One forty by seventy-five.
Tamala Krsna: Seventy-five.
Kaviraja: I have been correct.
Tamala Krsna: Just right. What was the pulse this morning?
Bhakti-caru: (Hindi to Kaviraja) Morning his pulse rate was 115.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: Now his heart is in perfect order.
Bhavananda: So what was the cause of that distress?
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He says further he cannot say.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Hm.
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Prabhupada and devotee)
Bhakti-caru: The color of his stool was greenish this morning. So that's good. That shows that the liver is...
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: It's a pity that you can't understand me and I can't understand you.
Tamala Krsna: No, we are understanding.
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru-mentions pathological tests, pulse, heart)
Bhakti-caru: He says from pathological point of view, there is nothing wrong.
Kaviraja: General condition good.
Bhakti-caru: His condition of the heart beat is perfect.
Tamala Krsna: So what is wrong?
Bhakti-caru: Blood pressure is perfect.
Tamala Krsna: That means a spiritual...
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Prabhupada)
Bhakti-caru: Saturn is having its effect like at times when he was looking at Srila Prabhupada then having some trouble. When he was (indistinct) something else than when the Saturn looks higher from him...
Tamala Krsna: But what did Prabhupada just say?
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He said how can you define it? How can you explain it? Like the condition couldn't have improved by ten medicines also, (indistinct) one medicine it become perfect.
Tamala Krsna: What did Prabhupada just say?
Bhakti-caru: Prabhupada just said that I mean, this morning his condition was bad, not now.
Bhavananda: Prabhupada was complaining of mental distress this morning also.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) ...mental distress?
Prabhupada: Hm, hm.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindimentions word "poison")
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Devotee: Someone gave him poison here.
Kaviraja: (Hindi long explanation)
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him.
Tamala Krsna: That was the mental distress.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: What did Kaviraja just say?
Bhakti-caru: He said that when Srila Prabhupada was saying that, there must be some truth behind it. (People all speaking at once)
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji says that there must be some truth to it if you say that. So who is it that has poisoned? (pause)
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru and Prabhupada)
Woman: What did he say?
Bhakti-caru: He said that it's quite possible that mercury, it's a kind of a poison...
Bhagatji: That makaradhvaja. (Hindi with Kaviraja and Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: He was referring to a big murder case in Calcutta, the husband poisoned the wife.
Bhavananda: Oh yes. Our lawyer is the...
Tamala Krsna: Bhagatji doesn't think the...
Kaviraja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru and Prabhupada)
Tamala Krsna: No poison is strong enough to stop the hari-nama, Srila Prabhupada.
Kaviraja: Yes. (Hindi)
Devotee: Prahlada Maharaja.
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: Would you like some more kirtana, Srila Prabhupada? Lokanatha can lead. Lokanatha, you lead.
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Lokanatha: Not for chanting, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Lokanatha: We just had a big kirtana, but I could chant more. I have come a long way to see you and chant for you. So if you allow I will chant.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Lokanatha: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: You have taken your van?
Prabhupada: You take your van and three o'clock there.
Lokanatha: Three o'clock is all right?
Prabhupada: Four.
Lokanatha: Four o'clock.
Prabhupada: How is the climate outside?
Lokanatha: There's not cold so far. Lucky I came today. It's good climate.
Hamsaduta: At night it's a little chilly and in the day it's very pleasant and warm.
Prabhupada: No, other parts of India.
Lokanatha: Are not. As we go towards the Himalaya it gets cold otherwise up to Delhi and Chandigarh same climate as it is here now. As soon as we go out into the mountains, it's very cold. Shivering. As we came to the place, wherever we went the same climate. Same as Vrndavana. It's a good climate.
Prabhupada: So you come at four, have kirtana (?). [break] I wish that you GBC manage very nicely and consider I am dead and let me try to travel all the tirthasthana. Without any responsibility. If I become recovered from this malady I shall come back and then I shall die in, what is it when the dead body is there, let them bring to Mayapura and Vrndavana. I am thinking in this way. Bring little medicine and no medicine, little milk, and travel one place to another and if there is death, what is the lamentation? My age is ripe. In the open air and bullock cart or during daytime, eh? Or you can say semi-suicide, although living what consider me dead for the time. You manage and nowadays there is in India ample sunshine. So during daytime I shall travel and nighttime you make a camp under a tree. In this way let me travel all the tirthas. I am thinking in this way. What is your opinion?
Bhavananda: Srila Prabhupada, we promise that we'll manage everything to the best of our ability.
Prabhupada: No, no, you are managing, I know, but you are all important men and unnecessarily you are bound up. You cannot go. So Lokanatha party has got some experience and let me go. In India the climate is now good. If I recover, it is very good. You know. So what is the wrong? If I die, then the body will be brought either in Vrndavana or Mayapura, that's all. And if I live, it will be a great end of a life. You are all experienced.
Jayapataka: As much as you have trained us, Srila Prabhupada, that is only how much we are experienced. We don't want that you be burdened any more with material management problems but...
Prabhupada: No, not from that point of view. What is the use of lying down here?
Jayapataka: The kaviraja said...
Prabhupada: Kaviraja may say...
Jayapataka: ...that even that your body is going to, is got a life of six to ten years but he said even a healthy cow, if it's kept locked up inside of a room, then it will deteriorate.
Prabhupada: And therefore I say, (laughs) don't keep me locked up. You do your duty as I have trained you and let me be free and if money required, he'll come and take and go back again as he is coming to take book.
Jayapataka: What?
Prabhupada: They have got experience Indian, you can go village to village and, arrangement as you may, but it is trouble taken, and I am no longer, you manage. If I live, I can come again. I shall be very glad.
Devotee: Previously it was mentioned that there was some risk in travelling.
Prabhupada: What is that risk? Nowadays there is no risk. What is the risk? Mm?
Devotee: Well from the medical point of view it's something with the organs or something, I don't know exactly but it's been considered.
Prabhupada: This is my proposal and...
Jayapataka: That would be after you gained some strength, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes. If I (have) free air and free movement why sunshine (?) and I can come back again in a year.
Jayapataka: You will be translating while you're travelling?
Prabhupada: No, yes and no.
Bhavananda: I think it's good idea, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Ha.
Bhavananda: Only factor at this point is not to take any unnecessary risk.
Prabhupada: No. As I think free, so I remain. Mm. Then when I am sane man, I shall come back again either Mayapura or Vrndavana or Bombay, any other.
Jayapataka: You would travel by a minibus.
Prabhupada: Mm?
Jayapataka: You would travel by a bus.
Prabhupada: That you think of.
Bhavananda: We will all sit down and discuss the different arrangements that have to be made, plans that have to be made. It's a very nice idea. Real sannyasa life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Mm. You have tried doctor, kaviraja, medicine, everything. Everything has failed. Now suppose I am taking the risk of death, what is wrong? When the..., I am dead you go India, within India, you go and bring the body either in Mayapura or Vrndavana. Mayapura the land is already there. Vrndavana I think on the gate side, that's all. That's wherever you like you'll do.
Jayapataka: Srila Prabhupada, you commented that when Thakura Bhaktivinoda was put on the gate side that that was no way to respect a Vaisnava.
Prabhupada: Mm.
Jayapataka: So then doesn't seem proper to put you by the gate.
Prabhupada: No, not by the gate. There is ample land. Or in Mayapura, that will be very nice. Mm.
Jayapataka: This kaviraja assures that by taking little milk frequently during the day...
Prabhupada: I will take milk. Milk is available everywhere. (laughter) I shall take little milk and sleep, that's all. If I live, that's all right. If I don't live, that doesn't matter.
Bhavananda: Very nice program. We can all accompany you at different times of the month.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not very many, but you can come and go back.
Jayapataka: Which holy places you would like to visit, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: India is full of holy places.
Jayapataka: Krsna-lila, Mahaprabhu-lila.
Prabhupada: And gradually you go to Mayapura. Is someone here?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: I...
Bhavananda: He has heard everything.
Prabhupada: Mm.
Jayapataka: By you going to the holy places, you will purify the holy places.
Prabhupada: There are two things, life or death. So if I die where is the wrong? And if there is death, that is natural.
Jayapataka: For you Srila Prabhupada, to be alive or to die is no different because you are in the transcendental position, but for us when you leave the body then we are bereft of your association. So for us it is very unfortunate.
Prabhupada: Then live by my words, by my training. Mm. (pause) So you like this idea? Mm?
Hamsaduta: I liked it.
Prabhupada: Who is it?
Adri-dharana: It's Hamsaduta Maharaja.
Prabhupada: Oh. (pause) Most places you beg from the local place and subsist, otherwise purchase.
Jayapataka: You are very famous, Srila Prabhupada, wherever you go there will be crowds of people to have your darsana.
Prabhupada: So they will see me, I have no objection. I want little milk from them, that's all. (pause) So far my presence is required (for) management, I think I have bequeathed, properly you can manage. Hm. It is to be admitted failure, the so-called medical treatment, failure. (pause)
Jayapataka: I'll be back to say that you defy all medical laws. Sometimes you become very weak and sometimes you become immediately strong. (pause)
Giriraja: I think this is a good idea.
Prabhupada: Who is this?
Devotee: Giriraja.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Giriraja: Because, I mean, I don't have any faith in the doctors or their treatments because they're never working and ultimately it depends on Krsna and Krsna is everywhere. He can exercise His will in any condition and you know, as you say, that if you go out and if you recover then it's very good. And even otherwise, I mean if that is the decision of Lord Krsna, then this is a very glorious way. (pause)
Prabhupada: All seriously consider this submission and let me go. (end)

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