Room Conversation

November 4, 1977, Vrndavana
Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So, that legal business?
Tamala Krsna: Giriraja has gone into Mathura to meet with Mr. Garg to just see that all of the drafts are in order, if everything is in order. Then hopefully tomorrow we can finish it all.
Prabhupada: So it was argument, not that we have rejected. Upayan cintayet prajnah...
Tamala Krsna: You mean the treatment? Yes, I have learned to take everything very philosophically, Srila Prabhupada. I mean I took it that you were presenting the..., you know, presenting the whole picture to be considered.
Prabhupada: I am now puzzled. Still, I am thinking.
Tamala Krsna: I thought it was very good what you said in the sense that it... It actually makes everything... It presents a more real picture. We should not be overly optimistic, neither should we be completely fatalistic.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: And above all, our whole program here is completely transcendental. It's just like Krsna dasa Babaji said. Your consciousness is so sublime that it's just wonderful at every moment to be with you. I mean, although I wish that you were... We all wish that you were completely healthy, yet at the same time we have never experienced so much nice exchanges with you. I mean we all... Every moment is so relishable to be with you. So I mean, even this puzzlement is very transcendental. None of us see any of this in any kind of a mundane view. It's all due to your consciousness being so Krsna conscious, Srila Prabhupada. I mean to me this puzzlement is simply another proof of the existence of Krsna, 'cause Krsna certainly is not puzzled. It seems like everything is happening according to His plan.
Prabhupada: Kirtana may be stopped now.
Tamala Krsna: Stop for a while now. For the rest of the night it's good if there's... (kirtana stops) The kaviraja's assistant came this evening. We hadn't called him. I think he came on his own. He wanted to see how you were. I didn't think there was so much need for him to see you. He's not so senior a man. And the medicine is already prescribed, so what would be the benefit of his coming? We're not going to allow him to change the medicine, so I felt there was no real need. We can... Bhakti-caru Maharaja spoke with him, gave him report of how you are.
Prabhupada: He is also educated?
Tamala Krsna: I don't really know, Srila Prabhupada, how far he's educated.
Svarupa Damodara: Seems too young also.
Tamala Krsna: Young and... We're pretty lucky, as far as I can see, with that Damodar Prasad Shastri. He seems to be in his own category from all the kavirajas I've ever seen. He really seems different than that.
Svarupa Damodara: He's also Krsna conscious.
Tamala Krsna: He really is a little Krsna conscious.
Prabhupada: Who?
Tamala Krsna: That... The kaviraja that we brought from Calcutta. He's... The thing I liked about him also is I felt that he was the kind of person who I... Somehow I felt that in your childhood or something, that your family would have engaged some such a Marwari... You always said how the Mulliks' house was located amongst many Marwari community people. I was thinking somehow it seemed suitable that this is... Of course we don't designate like that, but somehow it seems suitable that... You know. Marwaris are... They occupy a high place in the community. Everything they do, they do very first class. Their food is first class. They do first-class business. Most of our members are from the Marwari community. Anyway, it just seemed like it was nice that this man...
Prabhupada: Their food is first class, there is no doubt. Yes... It is certified by Sir P. C. Raya.
Tamala Krsna: By who, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: A big chemist.
Tamala Krsna: What was his name?
Prabhupada: Sir P. C. Raya.
Tamala Krsna: P. C. Raya.
Svarupa Damodara: A chemist, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. He's the first chemist who started this Bengal Chemical.
Prabhupada: He said first-class food is Marwari, and last class, Madrasi.
Tamala Krsna: Madras.
Svarupa Damodara: Last class?
Tamala Krsna: The Madrasi.
Panca-dravida: I like this doctor too, Srila Prabhupada, because he was respectful to you.
Tamala Krsna: Not only to Prabhupada. They're always respectful to Prabhupada. But that he was respectful to the devotees. That was the sign that actually he was respectful to Prabhupada, because many of them, they show respect to Srila Prabhupada, but they don't respect the devotees, which means they don't really respect what Srila Prabhupada has done. He had a very good appreciation. (pause)
Prabhupada: I had some stool.
Tamala Krsna: Earlier today. That also, I see by the writing, was good color. Actually that's a good sign, that it's being passed naturally, without any artificial means. You may be feeling relief from that.
Prabhupada: Yes. The stool which I was proposing came out by juice.
Tamala Krsna: Came out naturally.
Prabhupada: That is good.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Did Prabhupada have barley and milk tonight?
Bhakti-caru: No, I got it ready. I just came to ask. Srila Prabhupada? (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Hm. Now you can go.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. I'm always near by. I'm in the house all the time. [break] One thing I feel, that while there hasn't been any great improvement, on the other hand, I do not find that there has been any negative reaction or any regression since the time the kaviraja's treatment began. Of course, Your Divine Grace says that you feel weaker now than you did a week ago. If that's a fact, then...
Prabhupada: Not so very weak.
Tamala Krsna: I do find that you have more difficulty sitting up now. I notice that when you sit up you always slump over to one side, either as if you have no sufficient strength or as if you lost your balance. I can't tell which it is. You're always leaning. You're not able to sit up straight. Of course, that was there also even a week ago, but it seems a little more noticeable now. Do you think you are weaker now than you were a week ago?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: You do? That's not a good sign. I mean I wouldn't expect that you should be that much stronger, but I don't see why you should be weaker now. Do you think it may be psychologically that you're weaker? I mean, how would you know if you were weaker now?
Prabhupada: Because I cannot sit down.
Tamala Krsna: You can't sit up. You mean after being sat up you can't stay sitting up? You were never able to sit yourself up. That you were not doing since many months ago. When you say you're not able to sit down, you mean you cannot keep sitting in a sitting position? 'Cause that you were able to do in the last day or two, sitting up. It might be... I don't know, but it may be more psychological, from laying in bed all the time. Naturally there is a feeling perhaps that one is... Weakness also means one's willpower becomes more weaker. Is that possible that that may be it?
Prabhupada: What it is, Krsna knows.
Tamala Krsna: Anyway, the signs which the kaviraja told us to look for, which would show that things are going well, are definitely present. The fact is that you have been passing more urine every day, nearly double the amount that you previously were passing. And also you're not exerting yourself as much. Up until a week ago you were speaking a lot, translating or otherwise, and this parikrama you were doing was also exerting. So in that respect you're not exerting yourself as much. In other words, all of the things which the kaviraja has asked us to do, we're doing and you're doing. So we should now wait and see. In the meantime, we're here chanting. If you like, we can read. And we're perfectly satisfied to be with you. So I don't see that there's any difficulty in waiting to see the results of the treatment, see if it has actually helped.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Bhakti-caru: I asked him if he would like to take some medicine.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada's supposed to take medicine now? He doesn't want to take? You don't want to take your medicine now, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: My taking the medicine means I am passing urine.
Tamala Krsna: Is that all right?
Prabhupada: That I do not know.
Tamala Krsna: Well, according to every physician that we've consulted, Ayurvedic and allopathic, they say that that's very much required. Is it painful to pass urine?
Prabhupada: Sometimes.
Tamala Krsna: I think you should take the medicine as he prescribed. They're not dangerous medicines in any way. Otherwise we won't be able to see the effect of the kaviraja's treatment. (pause)
Prabhupada: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada said that when he turns on his side he feels dizzy, and when he sits up also, towards the beginning, he feels very dizzy. I think that's due to weakness.
Tamala Krsna: Well, according to this kaviraja, he said that after fifteen days of this treatment, there should be noticeable sign, increased strength. Didn't he say that? So, it's been about one week now, hasn't it? Or maybe not so long. Five days. So for another week or ten days, Srila Prabhupada, we should carry on, and let us see. We're certainly not going to... I think that this is the last kaviraja that we should take the help of. If his medicine works, that's very welcome. And if it doesn't, then I don't think that we should try any more kavirajas or any doctor. We've tried enough. At least for the next week to ten days now we should carry through. At least we've seen that with other kavirajas there were so many negative effects. Remember? Now, with this kaviraja, nothing has even happened badly with the medicine he's prescribed. Rather, exactly as he predicted there would be more urine, more urine is coming. I think the swelling is reducing.
Bhakti-caru: Yes. It has. It's a lot... Another thing is that milk...
Tamala Krsna: Milk you were never able to take. Now you're able to take without producing... I mean there definitely are, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Last night you gave me milk?
Bhakti-caru: Um hm. You started coughing, Srila Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: What is that?
Bhakti-caru: Last night
Tamala Krsna: What time?
Bhakti-caru: About 8:30.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada was vomiting?
Bhakti-caru: Not really. Like...
Tamala Krsna: See, Srila Prabhupada, I explained to Bhakti-caru Maharaja that when you take something to drink, milk, that when you sit up, at first you should not eat immediately. First of all, you should sit up... [break] I don't think it was due to the milk and barley that you were coughing.
Bhakti-caru: There are few things. First of all that, as you say, sitting up and taking it immediately after sitting up, and when he was feeling dizzy, then drinking the milk.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that's what it is.
Bhakti-caru: And another thing is that no taste. And Srila Prabhupada wasn't sitting properly. He was very uncomfortable, the way he was sitting.
Tamala Krsna: That's what I'm trying to say. Before you try to drink anything, Srila Prabhupada, first of all you make yourself properly comfortable in sitting. If you're dizzy and you try and drink... Anyone who is dizzy and tries to drink, they're going to start to cough and vomit.
Bhakti-caru: Another thing might have been that last night in the milk the barley was little thick, little too much of it, so that density was little thick. So from today onwards I'm going to use much less barley so that it's thin and easy to swallow.
Tamala Krsna: I think that... I mean the one thing we're hoping for is the strength. I was saying that the swelling, Srila Prabhupada, very much reduced, very reduced.
Bhakti-caru: And another thing, Shastriji was explaining that in Ayurvedic medicine the reaction doesn't take place immediately. He was explaining in allopath, when someone is very weak, they give him glucose, intravenous glucose, and that gives immediate energy. But he says that that doesn't work. When the glucose is exhausted, then again he becomes even more weaker. But the kaviraja like that, the strength will come slowly, slowly, but whatever strength is acquired in the body, that stays there. It's permanent. It's not just temporary.
Tamala Krsna: The swelling is reduced. Isn't it, Srila Prabhupada? I mean, all of the signs, Srila Prabhupada, which the kaviraja wanted, are there.
Bhakti-caru: As a matter of fact, he hasn't given any medicine to strengthen him up.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? Did you hear what Bhakti-caru just said?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Bhakti-caru: Right now, Srila Prabhupada, Shastriji didn't give you any medicine to strengthen you up as such. His medicines are simply to cure your kidney and liver. When they are cured, then he's going to give medicines like makara-dhvaja which will make you strong.
Tamala Krsna: One thing, Srila Prabhupada, this is one of the reasons I wanted the kaviraja to be with you was to be able to answer your doubts, because I felt that he could far better than we can. But factually speaking, it seems to me there's every... I mean if he were here now he would feel your pulse and he would be able to understand that your pulse is not weak. Your heart is good. You're starting to pass more urine, you're getting sufficient rest, you're able to take things like milk, which you couldn't take before, and these are positive signs. And the one thing that we're looking for, strength, he already said will not come immediately, and he's not even giving any medicine for increasing strength yet. The thing is, we're a little impatient because we've waited so many months and had so many failures with so many different doctors, but really, this doctor, so far, has the best record, his medicines. So we think that you should be encouraged. We feel hopeful. Even if you feel hopeless, we are hopeful.
Prabhupada: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: That's 40 grams, stool.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? I think you should take the medicine now. Can Bhakti-caru bring it to you?
Prabhupada: The same medicine?
Bhakti-caru: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. This same medicine will continue till kaviraja comes back and gives new medicine. They are all the same medicine, Srila Prabhupada. There are two different types of medicines. One, I'm supposed to give once in the morning, once in the evening. And another one is in the noontime and late in the evening. And there's one medicine, that's sometime in the afternoon.
Tamala Krsna: It's not very painful to take the medicine, is it?
Bhakti-caru: Does it taste bad, Srila Prabhupada, the medicine? Does it taste very bad?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhakti-caru: But then it is very bitter or... Because medicine will be a little bad tasting. Very much bitter, no, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Bitter.
Bhakti-caru: Yes. So should I mix it with some sweet? Like... I normally give the powder with glucose so that the glucose will give you some sweet taste. But distilled medicine, the water thin, watery medicine, that is tasteless. It tastes like water.
Tamala Krsna: Let us follow this medicine until its prescribed time, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Give me. (swallows medicine)
Tamala Krsna: This kaviraja feels quite confident, Srila Prabhupada. He is not a fool. He says there's reason to feel quite hopeful. Naturally you are feeling a little hopeless because you've been laying down for so long in bed. Would you like to hear a little bit of one of the books? We'll read some more of the Teachings of Lord Kapila that we were reading yesterday to you? In this way we can pass the time very nicely.
Prabhupada: Who is...?
Tamala Krsna: We're moving the light over to this side for reading.
Svarupa Damodara: This book is wonderful, Prabhupada, Kapila, Teachings of Lord Kapila. It is a beautiful cover. (Jayadvaita reads from Teachings of Lord Kapila) (end)

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