Room Conversation

November 3, 1977, Vrndavana
Prabhupada: Oh, they come to Bombay by car.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. They drive from Bombay to Hyder... I've also done that driving. Long trip, ten, eleven hours.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Ten or eleven hours, I think. Long trip. Maybe even longer.
Prabhupada: Why kirtana stopped?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: It's just beginning again, Srila Prabhupada. You like the kirtana? For a few days we weren't having it.
Prabhupada: Hamsaduta was chanting.
Tamala Krsna: You want him to chant again? Should he chant some more?
Prabhupada: I think so.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. I think the reason that you haven't been having much kirtana the last two or three days is because Hamsaduta and Bharadvaja were not here. Isn't that it? Their kirtana is very sweet. [break]
Prabhupada: ...Ratha-yatra ceremony.
Gaura-govinda: At Ratha-yatra Jagannatha came very late for Pandu-vijaya. It was first time announced that it would take place at nine, but actually it took place at four p.m.
Prabhupada: Why?
Gaura-govinda: We heard that this year that new body... Jagannatha has a new body, so it was heard that that was not proper time. These pandas and some people were interested with this business purpose. They did so, and also these pandas were doing some nonsense inside the temple, so Jagannatha was very much displeased, so it took so much time.
Prabhupada: The pandas untimely changed the body?
Gaura-govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Puri-raja, the king of Puri, would do cara-paraha,(?) this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Puri-raja. There was some incident previously. So Puri-raja was not present at that time. He left Puri, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha(?) was being done by this bada panda, puja-panda. Such mismanagement was there.
Prabhupada: Who was bada panda?
Gaura-govinda: There was one bada panda. I don't know his name. One who does offerings.(?) He is chief of those pandas. And then, when this pulling of car... That took place just a few minutes before sunset. It was the custom that as soon as the sun set, there will be no pulling. Only Balarama's car was pulled a few yards, dashed against a (indistinct), and four of the wheels were broken. So then it stopped. For two days there was no pulling unless it is repaired. Then for two days car stopped there. So on the third day it was pulled. The cars were pulled to the Gundica. Such things happened this year. And we were the only party who chanted before ratha from ten to four.
Prabhupada: Only party means?
Gaura-govinda: We. Lokanatha Swami's party had arrived, and we are at Bhuvanesvara, four, five devotees. We were there two days before at Puri, and we went there and we chanted and did kirtana before the ratha from ten to four. There were much crowd this year, so much crowd that this whole bada danda(?) was filled. And above, the top of the roofs, the buildings, were all overfilled. The government people that were broadcasting of radio, they all took photos and also they recorded our kirtana. They announced in the radio also. This incident took place this year.
Tamala Krsna: We did not have these problems at our Ratha-yatra, Srila Prabhupada.
Panca-dravida: The crowds stayed for the third day, or they all left?
Gaura-govinda: No, they left. Third day there was a thin crowd. They all left. That was the only day when all had come. They left. Fifty percent, seventy-five percent crowd left. Only twenty-five percent stayed.
Panca-dravida: Was there any criticism?
Gaura-govinda: Oh, many criticisms. Many criticisms. I also heard. There was one custom that there are some specific persons, pandas, they would go out all directions to search that wood, specific nim wood from which the new body would be carved. There are some symptoms in the wood, that nim tree. They would find it out. And they go all directions. But this year they never gone anywhere. Last time from where they have pulled up the trees, they went there, and without proper ceremony they cut down the trees and came. This was also criticism. They never followed this thing this year.
Prabhupada: The pandas are doing...
Gaura-govinda: Doing all nonsense. These pandas are so wicked that all were afraid of them. These government people are all afraid of them. The administrator, temple administration, though he's government servant, they are all afraid of them.
Prabhupada: Why?
Gaura-govinda: Because they are gundas. And these government people, they get vote and come to the power, and these pandas, they are so powerful that if they will not listen to them, they will topple down their position. They have such apprehension. And publicly also they will create some persecution among them. They have such... That Sadasiva Rath Sharma?(?) That time, Prabhupada, when you were at Bhuvanesvara, he came...
Prabhupada: Ah, ha, ha.
Gaura-govinda: He was telling that when he associated with us, those pandas told him that "Oh, you have taken some money from these ISKCON people. Therefore you are favoring them." He was criticized, and he was telling me that "Now these pandas are talking about me like this."
Prabhupada: He's also a panda?
Gaura-govinda: No, he's not a panda. He's one of these panditas of that Mukti-mandapa pandita. He's president. This time, while we were talking with Anantadeva, we said that "Sadasiva Rath Sharma(?) is favoring us, and he gives favorable opinion." Anantadeva said, "No, don't believe him. He's a rascal. He's the most greedy person. He wants much more money." Anantadeva gave this opinion about him.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada? (Bengali) [break]
Prabhupada: The sanctity of Jagannatha Puri-lost.
Bhavananda: Is there any pain this side, Srila Prabhupada? Any pain this side? [break]
Prabhupada: Jagannatha Puri's sanctity they are killing. Thousands of years. Hm? Gaura-govinda? The sanctity is being...
Gaura-govinda: Sanctity is lost now.
Prabhupada: Kali-yuga. What is happening? Jagannatha Svami.
Gaura-govinda: Those pandas, they have developed these demoniac qualities and they are forbidding the real devotees to enter into the temple. That is also an offense.
Panca-dravida: Even our devotees born in Hindu families they won't let into the temple.
Gaura-govinda: What is that Hindu? So-called Hindu.
Panca-dravida: Lokanatha Swami even. There is no reason even they should forbid him from going to the temple.
Prabhupada: They are depressing to extract money.
Svarupa Damodara: How many pandas are involved?
Gaura-govinda: There are many pandas.
Tamala Krsna: How many?
Gaura-govinda: Hundreds.
Panca-dravida: These panditas, Srila Prabhupada... Five years ago I got permission to go into the temple and they let me in the gates, only the panditas blocked the door. They would not let us in. But we were allowed inside the temple gates and everything. It was only the one pandita came and stopped us. [break]
Prabhupada: Management is in the hands of government?
Tamala Krsna: Is the management in the hand of the government?
Gaura-govinda: Yes, government. One administrator is there. He's governmental power.
Tamala Krsna: That means the government is being paid off by the pandas.
Svarupa Damodara: This is Orissa government.
Tamala Krsna: Anantadeva said the government administrator also wants money. They're all in it together.
Gaura-govinda: That Sadasiva Ratha Sharma, the president of... [break]
Panca-dravida: The biggest panditas are all known meat-eaters also.
Gaura-govinda: Ah, yes!
Tamala Krsna: They eat meat.
Gaura-govinda: Meat, fish, everything.
Tamala Krsna: I think, Prabhupada, you mentioned in the Caitanya-caritamrta that.
Gaura-govinda: Many also take all sorts of intoxication and they also go to the prostitute. Everything they do.
Tamala Krsna: How can they serve the Deity? Srila Prabhupada, does Lord Jagannatha reside there any more?
Prabhupada: That is the proof, that it was not in order this year.
Tamala Krsna: What was proof, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: That ratha-cakra broken.
Tamala Krsna: Does Lord Jagannatha reside there any more?
Prabhupada: No, He resides everywhere. Jagannatha says, yatra tisthati mad-bhaktas tatra tisthami narada. Things are deteriorating. That I am lamenting. There is no... For thousands of years sanctitythey are killing.
Tamala Krsna: Is there anything we can do about it?
Prabhupada: Unless the administration comes to us.
Svarupa Damodara: If we pray to Lord Jagannatha so that... [break]
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said, "What you have brought?"
Satadhanya: Bengali portals, big, very nice.
Tamala Krsna: Show him. Wow.
Satadhanya: That one's a little soft, but...
Tamala Krsna: Give him a good one.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Satadhanya: You'll take, Srila Prabhupada? Also some jinga.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Satadhanya: In Mayapura, when they heard that Your Divine Grace was coming, it was like electricity. There was... I've never seen anyone so excited as they were. They were electrified. Everyone was... All the Gurukula, little boys who had never even seen... "Prabhupada is coming! Prabhupada is coming!" There were shouts all through the asrama. And everything was very well organized by Jayapataka Maharaja for your arrival.
Bhavananda: Mrs. De at the airport?
Satadhanya: At the airport that Mrs. De, who... I think she met you previously. She had told you, "I am also a De."
Tamala Krsna: Remember when we flew to Bombay that lady helped us for getting special seating?
Satadhanya: So she very kindly made all the nice arrangements at the airport. There was a big caravan with flowers to take you to Mayapura.
Tamala Krsna: You expected Prabhupada on that plane?
Satadhanya: Yes. We had the car out. Everyone was expecting.
Tamala Krsna: They couldn't get through in time to tell them you weren't coming, Srila Prabhupada, so they were all ready at the airport with the cars.
Prabhupada: So we failed to catch.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. You must have been surprised when Prabhupada didn't come out of the plane.
Satadhanya: Surprised? Yes. (laughs)
Tamala Krsna: They arranged that special lift to take you out of the plane also. Remember when we went in the plane on British Airways from London? That way you don't have to get carried or bounced around, because it's a machine that goes up and down.
Prabhupada: The difficulty is on the, this road.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, it's very bad.
Prabhupada: What is the condition?
Satadhanya: I came by train just now.
Bhavananda: Kaviraja said, Srila Prabhupada, that under no condition should you go on that road.
Tamala Krsna: It's lucky that the car didn't arrive in time, Srila Prabhupada. He said under no circumstances can you be taken over that road.
Satadhanya: It must have been Krsna's arrangement to protect Srila Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada knew it.
Satadhanya: The weather in Bengal is very nice, very warm and very nice weather.
Tamala Krsna: You saw Mr. Shastri? Kaviraja?
Satadhanya: No, I left that night he was to arrive.
Tamala Krsna: Adri had gotten back?
Satadhanya: Not when I left.
Bhavananda: He left the night I left.
Tamala Krsna: How did he come? By plane?
Satadhanya: The train for free. On Jayapataka's India Rail pass. You go first class for free.
Bhavananda: Last night I had a dream, Srila Prabhupada. Everyone at Mayapura, all the devotees, were rolling on the ground and flailing their fists on the ground and pulling their hair and weeping. They were all expecting Your Divine Grace to come.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: I think you have to fulfill their prayer, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satadhanya: There's also some news from Mayapura. Seventeen of the Muhammadans, those Muslims, they have been arrested. Now they're released on bail, but they were officially arrested in Mayapura. And also Jayapataka Maharaja says that the site where they are thinking of building that big temple in Mayapura, some land has just become available for sale, about fifteen bighas of land. And it ranges from fifteen hundred to twenty-five hundred rupees per bigha. So Jayapataka wanted me to tell Your Divine Grace.
Bhavananda: Fifteen bighas, that's five acres.
Tamala Krsna: So why not purchase?
Bhavananda: Right where the, where we want to put the temple. It must be a group of men that the prices vary per bigha.
Tamala Krsna: Why not purchase?
Satadhanya: Jayapataka Maharaja is very anxious to purchase that land. It's exactly where the site for the big temple, at that location. Fifteen bighas.
Prabhupada: Whether he can purchase?
Tamala Krsna: Whether he can purchase? If you don't go to Mayapura, Srila Prabhupada, all of Mayapura will come here to be with you. Now, if you get a little stronger, we can go.
Satadhanya: Even the airport officials were disappointed. They were saying, "Where is our Guru Maharaja?" I was shocked to hear them saying. "Where is our Guru Maharaja?" They had purchased very nice fruits and vegetables of all different varieties, and Prabhupada could choose which he liked-portal, jinga, so many things.
Prabhupada: What other news?
Tamala Krsna: What other news?
Satadhanya: Everything is very nice there, very organized. Jayapataka Maharaja and Bhavananda Maharaja have organized it very nicely. Calcutta is very clean. Also Calcutta was prepared in case your Divine Grace was feeling tired. Then you could have stayed at Calcutta for a day or so and then gone on to Mayapura. Many life members had come to the airport. Sita Ram Daga...
Tamala Krsna: I think we have to go soon, Srila Prabhupada. Actually, to take you to different places is the greatest ecstasy, because there's no greater pleasure the devotees have than when you first arrive, they see you. Their feelings know no bounds. Airport arrivals have always been ecstatic over the years, Srila Prabhupada. The newspapers always remark how ecstatic they are.
Prabhupada: What is the condition of the road?
Tamala Krsna: This road is hopeless. We have to find an alternate way.
Bhakti-caru: How about going from Mathura to Delhi by train?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Srila Prabhupada, this morning you were asking for Bharadvaja? Here he is. We thought of a better way to go, Srila Prabhupada, than car. We'll take the Taj Express from Mathura to Delhi. It's quite a nice train ride. It takes only one hour and forty-five minutes, and it doesn't even stop one time.
Satadhanya: I just took it from Delhi this morning. Very clean, very smooth.
Tamala Krsna: We will have one devotee get on in Agra to reserve a compartment for us, and then we'll board it here in Mathura, and it arrives in Delhi at about nine-thirty at night, nine forty-five. So then we'll spend the night in Delhi, resting, and then the following morning we'll take the morning flight to Calcutta and Mayapura. This means also that you won't have to undergo any strenuous journey to Delhi and then immediately take a flight. The train journey is actually much easier than a car journey, and then we get the whole night to rest, which is also good. So basically it just means we take a plane and then the car ride to Mayapura.
Prabhupada: So I simply go by car from here to Mathura.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. Then we take the Taj Express, which is nonstop to Delhi, then stay in the Delhi temple, which is also nice, overnight, and then we proceed on to Calcutta. The next morning we leave on the plane at six-thirty in the morning and we arrive in Calcutta by about eight-thirty, and we should arrive in Mayapura by noon. Does it sound like a good plan? Now you simply should gain more and more strength, Srila Prabhupada. This time, until the kaviraja comes, from now until then, you should rest as much as possible, take these medicines. I think it's having a positive effect. You mentioned this morning that when you sit up you feel a little stronger now. I think it's good that you're not taxing yourself in any way. That's important. Would you like to do something specific right now, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: What shall I do? (laughs)
Tamala Krsna: Well, Upendra's saying you might like to wash now your face and teeth. When does Prabhupada wash his body?
Upendra: Two, approximately.
Tamala Krsna: In the afternoon. Maybe I should read some news to you? What would you like to do now, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: News?
Tamala Krsna: I might have a little bit of news. I'll see.
Prabhupada: In Mayapura I shall stay in my quarter?
Satadhanya: Yes, Prabhupada. Everything is very nicely arranged. There's one nice, big bed, this same size, with nice, soft mattress.
Prabhupada: Why another bed?
Satadhanya: The other bed is still there...
Bhavananda: The other bed, Srila Prabhupada, is not wide enough. [break] ...very high. We find for moving you about on the bed, sitting you up and turning you on your side, that it's safer and more convenient if we're able to get up on the bed itself. So the bed that you had at Mayapura was single bed. It wasn't very wide. This will be much more comfortable for you.
Prabhupada: How long it takes to go to Mathura?
Tamala Krsna: From here to Mathura? It would take about twenty minutes.
Prabhupada: Not much.
Tamala Krsna: I mean, within one hour of leaving here you'd be on your way to Delhi on the train. Another thing is that that Taj Express is very much on time. It's never late because it only stops one time between Agra and Delhi, and that's here in Mathura. It's a very, very exacting train. So we can arrive fifteen minutes before the train is expected to arrive. We don't have to arrive hours before, or anything like that. It's... We'll also make a special arrangement with the train stationmaster that only when he sees that Your Divine Grace is settled comfortably in the train will the train proceed onwards.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Tamala Krsna: You got one letter, Srila Prabhupada, from the BBT Library Party in America. I won't read it all, but just to sum it up... That Readings in Vedic Literature by Satsvarupa Maharaja, that book, remember, that I read some parts of to you? Readings in Vedic Literature Satsvarupa wrote? It's a short book? That book is becoming very much accepted in university courses. Many, many classes are using it as a textbook, which means that automatically thirty to fifty copies are purchased at a time. And all over the country now, as the Library Party travels, at each college one or two courses use this book now each semester. It's a regular textbook now. Now that they've introduced the study guide to the Bhagavad-gita, they expect the Bhagavad-gita will also become a regular textbook more and more. Actually this is a... The Library Party reports that this is a great future for these books, is that gradually all of these books will be accepted as textbooks, and they will be made mandatory reading in college courses, which means there will be huge sales year after year. Another thing which they're beginning to sell very widely, Srila Prabhupada... See, first the Library Party went to every university in America over the last four years and sold standing orders of the Bhagavatam and Caitanya-caritamrta. Now they're going back this year and starting to sell textbooks, text orders. They've done standing orders, now they're going to the same colleges and they're approaching the professors and saying, "Here's a book for your class as a textbook," which means that the teacher orders thirty copies at a time. So they're beginning to do this now. And they're also beginning to sell the movies. Yadubara's movies are being taken. In each school one or two people are renting these films or purchasing these films as well as slide shows. This is called audio-visual media. The Library Party is starting to sell a lot of the movies and the slide shows as well as tape cassettes. Music courses, for example, want to order tape cassettes of Your Divine Grace singing bhajanas and playing the harmonium as part of a course in Indian music, for example.
Prabhupada: How many of you are going to Mayapura with me?
Tamala Krsna: We are going, ten-ten on the plane and another four or five on the train. Say fifteen altogether.
Satadhanya: Even more. There was about four or five on the plane that Prabhupada didn't take.
Tamala Krsna: Now, of course, there are more devotees who are coming, just like Citsukhananda Prabhu and others, so they'll also be going. By the time we go, we may be able to rent a third of the plane or something. At least there will be twenty or twenty-five devotees maybe.
Bhavananda: And then they have big caravan arranged, so from the airport or from Calcutta temple to Mayapura there will be at least forty devotees going with Your Divine Grace to Mayapurathe devotees who go and the devotees who greet you there.
Tamala Krsna: Do you like that, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: That we go in big numbers like that?
Bhavananda: Then at Mayapura there will be at least 150 devotees to greet you.
Tamala Krsna: Running down the road? (laughter) Srila Prabhupada, shall I continue with this report? Another thing that's beginning to happen is that the professors, after getting your standing orders and after teaching with your books in their courses, they are starting to become very friendly to Krsna consciousness. For example here is one example cited. He says, it says here, that "Dasaratha Prabhu went straight to the chairman of philosophy who happens to teach in that field, and that chairman also bought a copy of Monograph 2..." which is Svarupa Damodara's science books; these are also becoming important, "...and promised to review it. During this time, Sesa was meeting with Fritz Blackwell, an Asian language specialist who has used Krsna book in his course as a textbook and has known devotees for four years. Fritz's exchanges with Sesa were so intriguing that we shall simply list them one by one. The two passed in the hallway, not knowing each other, but later, when they met, Mr. Blackwell said, 'Oh, I knew you must have been with ISKCON. No one else would be so nicely dressed.' Sesa had corresponded with Mr. Blackwell previously and sent him copies of 'The Hare Krsna People' and 'Spiritual Frontier' movies to review for a special national survey of audio-visual materials on new spiritual movements. Fritz related that ISKCON's response was the quickest among his many suppliers for the project, and when he told his wife the Hare Krsnas were the first to send their films, she simply replied, 'They would be.' Sesa acquired advance copies of Mr. Blackwell's reviews on the two films, which we'll enclose with this report if possible. Introducing Mr. Blackwell to the Readings in Vedic Literature prompted him to say, 'I will definitely use this in my course next year.' He also agreed to send a review by December. Fritz told Sesa, 'It's amazing that you've come today. We're just going to start our study of Krsna tomorrow. Can you come and speak in my class?' Sesa immediately complied. Fritz introduced him as an authority and personal colleague, so the students listened attentively and took notes. Sesa used slides to supplement his academic glorification of Lord Krsna. Interested, the students asked many questions such as 'Why is Krsna blue? What is prasadam?' Fritz was very pleased with the whole thing and gladly helped Sesa make arrangements to get another Caitanya-caritamrta standing order in the library." They already had one order, and they got another order. "On the same campus, Sesa sold a preview order..." Anyway, then they sold some more books. That's just an example of the way professors are beginning to be more and more helpful, and they're actually becoming devoted to Krsna consciousness. They've been very much impressed with the Library Party. The Library Party devotees come in suits with ties. They look very proper. They're scholarly. The books are the most prestigious, scholarly presentations of the philosophy available. And these people, they first ordered the standing order. Now they're ordering course textbooks. And now they're starting to teach your books in the courses, Srila Prabhupada. They're preaching Krsna consciousness right in the classrooms. So automatically, when the see the devotees, they are very much attracted and friendly with our devotees. They want to take prasadam. So the scholars, who are the most intellectual community in America, are becoming devoted now to Your Divine Grace and this movement.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada? (Bengali) [break]
Tamala Krsna: Should I read this letter? It's from Tusta Krsna Swami.
Prabhupada: You have read already.
Tamala Krsna: No, that was Pusta Krsna. This is Tusta Krsna, from New Zealand. He says, "Dear Srila Prabhupada..." [break]
Prabhupada: When you gave me that milk?
Bhakti-caru: This morning, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: What time?
Bhakti-caru: Quarter past eight.
Prabhupada: And what is time now?
Tamala Krsna: Now it's about 10:30.
Prabhupada: So, every two hours give me something. Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Jaya! That's nice program.
Prabhupada: Little, little.
Bhakti-caru: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That will be...
Bhakti-caru: Next I'll give you some barley and milk. Would you like to have some bati chachury(?), Srila Prabhupada? Bati chachury?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Bhakti-caru: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: Maybe some fried portal too.
Bhakti-caru: Yes, fried portal also. Would you like to have some capati with that, Srila Prabhupada? Capati? Or some rice?
Prabhupada: (chuckles) I'll not be able to take. Better not bother. This fruit juice or milk.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, better to take...
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: Maybe there's some way, Srila Prabhupada, that the portal can be made into a texture that you can easily accept. Once you have to chew it, it's difficult for you.
Bhakti-caru: I can do one thingcut the portal in small pieces and let it boil for say hour or two, so all the juice will come out. It will be some kind of a soup.
Tamala Krsna: Portal soup.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. Make it in a way that Prabhupada can take it.
Bhakti-caru: Yes, there won't be any solid thing.
Tamala Krsna: That's good. I think liquids are easier for you, Srila Prabhupada. The kaviraja also said that, that for now, liquids are best. That will be nice. Avocados you can take.
Bhakti-caru: Next we'll give you at 12:30, so after two hours we'll give you some barley water, barley milk and some avocado, like yesterday, Srila Prabhupada. Jaya.
Tamala Krsna: Should I go on reading, Srila Prabhupada? He says that book distribution is doubling there also. He says, "On the farm we are doing spring planting, and this year seven acres is being put into crops, an increase over last year, since the population has grown. The farm is now famous throughout the country as..."
Prabhupada: If you give me some rest, I can sit down.
Tamala Krsna: If we give Prabhupada some rest...
Upendra: Some pillows.
Tamala Krsna: Back rest. [break] "...with your permission we would like to come and visit you sometime later this year, as it has now been so long since I have had your personal association." Do you give him permission to come visit you?
Prabhupada: Why not?
Tamala Krsna: He says, "I am a fallen wretch, but I am hoping and praying to the best of my capacity that your health will improve." [break] Would you like Bharadvaja to sing a little?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: You can sing now. [break] The kaviraja will be coming back to take us there. Better that we follow his advice and let this medicine work a little while, see if you get some strength, and let him come and take us there as he promised he would do. There is no reason why we should jump ahead. As we have placed ourself under a competent kaviraja, better we take his advice as long as we don't find it to be harmful.
Prabhupada: When we expect?
Tamala Krsna: We expect him to come the day after Diwali.
Prabhupada: When there is Diwali?
Tamala Krsna: Diwali is the 10th or 11th. I think the Marwari community, they celebrate on the 10th. So we expect him on the 11th or by the latest the 12th, which means one week from today. Do you mind waiting that long?
Prabhupada: I was thinking if we have to go, why...?
Tamala Krsna: No, because he's also said that he will give you some medicine for helping you to take the trip easily. No reason to rush, Srila Prabhupada. Our original reason for delaying was to give you time to get a little more strength. That kaviraja felt pretty confident that if we wait this long, you will get some more strength. I think we should wait. Everyone is feeling that way. You're not unhappy here, are you?
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: You look very peaceful, Srila Prabhupada. [break] He was not talking, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: "Without your blessings, how can I get compassion?"
Tamala Krsna: And without your blessings, how could we distribute so many? We directly see the proof of that verse, that the more the Panca-tattva saw that these fruits of love of God were distributed, the more they relished. We find in distributing your books that the more we distribute your books, the more blissful we feel. This book distribution is actually a part of our daily lives, just like... It is one of the regulative principles practically. Chant sixteen rounds, follow the four regulative principles, and distribute Prabhupada's books. Everyone sometime in the day does some book distribution or helps in some way the book distribution. [break] ...distribution has begun, the devotees enjoy it so much that they even like to do book distribution more than the life membership. The ecstasy of approaching people, person by person, simply on the friendship of your books is the highest of all pleasures. [break]
Prabhupada: So far I am thinking, I'm not improving in strength. And how can I improve by drinking little barley and milk and little fruit juice? I have no appetite for anything else. In case I... Most probably, I am diminishing my strength. So...
Tamala Krsna: Most probably diminish your strength?
Prabhupada: Yes, because...
Tamala Krsna: How? I don't see that you're diminishing in your strength.
Prabhupada: Yes, I cannot sit.
Tamala Krsna: But you haven't been able to sit for a long time. You mean you cannot sit up now even.
Prabhupada: In that also, I am diminished.
Tamala Krsna: That's a fact. Now when you try and sit up, you always fall over to the side.
Prabhupada: So in case... "In case," no. From the fact I can see that I have no appetite. Then how I can increase strength?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I can only repeat the words of the kaviraja.
Prabhupada: No, that is not...
Tamala Krsna: He states that you can't expect to eat as long as the liver and the kidneys are not functioning properly.
Prabhupada: So that is not functioning.
Tamala Krsna: Well, he says that he can get it to function properly.
Prabhupada: He says, but I practically see.
Tamala Krsna: But his medicine cannot... He also says that his medicine cannot be judged over a period of five or six days. He's not claiming...
Prabhupada: I mean in case I do not increase.
Tamala Krsna: All right. Okay. In case you don't increase. Because I don't think we can say... Unless we want to say that this kaviraja is absolutely wrong. But if we accept...
Prabhupada: You cannot say wrong or right.
Tamala Krsna: I agree with that. So we have to say, "in case." So what is your point, Srila Prabhupada? That in case you don't gain strength...
Prabhupada: Than what I will do?
Tamala Krsna: Well, why don't we decide that when the time comes.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Why don't we cross that hurdle when the time comes.
Prabhupada: It is already come.
Tamala Krsna: Well, no, because we're still saying "in case."
Prabhupada: No, no. Because I don't feel appetite for anything except that little one sip barley and one sip juice.
Tamala Krsna: But again the point is that the whole idea of this medicine is that it takes time.
Prabhupada: Practically I have seen that it is not working.
Tamala Krsna: But you're not allowing sufficient time, according to the kaviraja.
Prabhupada: What time? I could not...
Tamala Krsna: Well, he says fifteen days. He said fifteen days. He said a minimum of fifteen days. It's been about six days, five days.
Prabhupada: No, no, in case it is not successful.
Tamala Krsna: So why don't we wait for that "in case."
Prabhupada: We are waiting, but in case. (Tamala Krsna laughs)
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada, the Ayurveda doctor was telling that one great factor is your willpower. That's very important.
Prabhupada: I am losing my willpower, because practically I see that I am becoming more and more weak.
Tamala Krsna: You said you're losing your willpower?
Bhakti-caru: Don't you think there has been a slight improvement, Srila Prabhupada? Over last few days there has been a little improvement?
Prabhupada: What is that improvement?
Tamala Krsna: What is the improvement?
Bhakti-caru: Your intake has increased. Your voice sounds stronger than before.
Prabhupada: (laughs) What you will do with the voice?
Bhakti-caru: That's a sign of strength.
Prabhupada: No, no, why don't you consider. In case it is not successful... Upayan cintayet prajna apayan ca cintayet(?). Two things side by side: success or failure. In case it is failure, then what you'll do? You cannot guarantee anything success. Maybe success, maybe failure. If kaviraja's suggestion, if it becomes success, that's very good. But if it is failure...
Tamala Krsna: How can we give a recommendation on this question, Srila Prabhupada? I mean...
Prabhupada: No, no, what you will do?
Tamala Krsna: What we will do next?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Then we will go on. We'll go on trying.
Prabhupada: What trying?
Tamala Krsna: Well... Go on giving you juice and barley water, kirtana. Maybe eventually the situation will change. How can we stop trying to feed you and take care of you? Krsna can intercede at any moment.
Prabhupada: No, suppose if you want to move me from this place. That is the question.
Tamala Krsna: No. We're going to move you if we see some positive improvement.
Prabhupada: That is the point.
Tamala Krsna: That was the whole reason for waiting, is that you're supposed to get stronger by waiting.
Prabhupada: We shall wait, but from practical point I cannot drink more than one cup of milk and one cup of fruit juice. That is practically happening.
Tamala Krsna: Well, that certainly is the fact right now.
Prabhupada: Each... Right now I am... I am thinking it may not improve.
Tamala Krsna: I know you are thinking that there will be no improvement, but we are a little hopeful.
Prabhupada: Hopeful, hope against hopethat is natural. But I am becoming hopeless.
Tamala Krsna: But we are not yet hopeless.
Prabhupada: What is the value of your hope? I am the practical man. Then, if it is failure, what you will do? That I am asking.
Bhavananda: One thing we could do is begin twenty-four-hour kirtana again.
Prabhupada: That's all? I am afraid you may put me in the hospital.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, Prabhupada, we're not going to do that. We already said that we would never do that.
Prabhupada: If you..., what is called, want to move me, so what arrangement will be made?
Bhavananda: What arrangement we have made?
Tamala Krsna: No. Moving is no problem. But we say that we're not going to move you unless you show improvement. But we're not going to put you in the hospital. That is not going to happen. We can always take up the program of twenty-four-hour kirtana.
Bhavananda: Massage.
Tamala Krsna: And you can fast. That's... But why should we suggest that at this point? It is not proper for us to suggest that. Obviously we could say that, but that's not very... That means hopeless. So we cannot become hopeless. As your disciples, we can't become hopeless. And putting you in the hospital means hopeless. That's sure. Hospital is absolutely useless.
Satadhanya: Neither we would ever go against your instruction.
Tamala Krsna: No, it's not within our... Srila Prabhupada, we only took you to the hospital in London because Your Divine Grace said we should take you there. Otherwise we were not going to do that on our own. We did not go there on our decision.
Prabhupada: Yes, that starving and chanting and little ganga-jala or... In this way let me pass away peacefully.
Tamala Krsna: Well, first of all let us see this treatment out properly.
Bhavananda: That you can always do. Fasting, that you can always do. But let us see this treatment through. We have hopes in it. And for moving you, what arrangements, that kaviraja has said he will come here and move you personally. But he didn't want to move you for the next fifteen days.
Prabhupada: What you know?
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: If there is no actual strength...
Tamala Krsna: No. That's why now we won't move you. But if strength comes, then we can move you. The whole reason for going to Mayapura, one of the main reasons...
Prabhupada: I admit that it will be very nice if I can go to Mayapura.
Tamala Krsna: But there should be some strength. So we also say that. So let some strength come. Then we'll move you. And if it doesn't come, then we'll stay here.
Prabhupada: Hm. So in case things deteriorate, don't move me.
Tamala Krsna: No. We're moving you on the basis that you get strength. That's why we're waiting this time. We're not fanatical that we have to be in Mayapura. The basis of being in Mayapura was that if you show sign of improvement, then changes for good...
Prabhupada: Then I shall also be very glad.
Tamala Krsna: Right. So that is the basis for moving you, that there should be some positive strength shown.
Prabhupada: Now there is no strength.
Tamala Krsna: No. Srila Prabhupada? Krsna dasa Babaji has come to see you. Shall we have him come in now?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Set up the chair. He'll be coming in a minute or two.
Prabhupada: Get one small light.
Tamala Krsna: No Satadhanya, the one on the right. On the right.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: No, he hasn't come in yet, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Tamala Krsna? (Krsna dasa Babaji chanting japa)
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Krsna dasa Babaji: It is wonderful that he is speaking so nicely, with full sense.
Bhakti-caru: He's saying that it's wonderful that you are in full consciousness.
Prabhupada: He doesn't expect this consciousness in this condition. Therefore he is astonished. Actually, physicallyfinished, everything. So wherefrom the voice coming and wherefrom intelligence coming? That he is astonished. (Bengali) [break] So fix up this program, kirtana and whatever little I want to eat, that's all.
Tamala Krsna: And you'll continue to take the kaviraja's medicines?
Prabhupada: That I'll go on. What is that? If there is any improvement, welcome. Otherwise there is no question of moving me.
Tamala Krsna: No. [break] There has to be some actual improvement before you should move. Otherwise you are already here in Vrndavana, so why move?
Prabhupada: That is my point.
Tamala Krsna: But if actually you can show signs of improving and recovering, then there is reason to move for health.
Prabhupada: That is another thing.
Tamala Krsna: Traveling now should only be undertaken for health purposes.
Prabhupada: That is welcome. But at the present moment, I don't see any such... (Bengali)
Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Why Tamala Krsna gone?
Satadhanya: I'll get him, Srila Prabhupada.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada? (Bengali)
Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Babaji Maharaja also I have consulted that "Being afraid, don't move me in the hospital." He also says, "No, don't do."
Tamala Krsna: We're not going to do that, Srila Prabhupada. That Samjata dasa? You know Samjata dasa, the architect from Bhuvanesvara? He passed away recently. So I asked Gaura-govinda what were the circumstances. So he explained that he had been very ill for four or five days. They took him to the hospital. So the doctors gave some drugs for reducing the fever. But suddenly he died. When he died he was unconscious. Gaura-govinda said maybe it was due to the drugs that caused some severe reaction. We see one example after another that these hospitals, they are simply meant to kill, not to save life. I mean, I don't think we have any faith either in them, Srila Prabhupada. And apart from our faith, which makes no difference, you strictly ordered it. So we're not going to disobey your order under any circumstance, even if we risk our own life. If someone says to us that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Maharaja," then we'll say, "Then kill us." Your order is our command.
Prabhupada: What does he say? They will kill?
Tamala Krsna: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Maharaja to the hospital," still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow, even at the risk of our life. So we are not going to take you to the hospital under any condition. Neither... Not only is it your order, but we also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these allopathic doctors.
Prabhupada: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches chant, I'll hear. (Bengali)
Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali) Hari-nama-sankirtana. That is the medicine. [break]
Prabhupada: This is the decision, that in case it does not improve, let me die here. If it improves, I shall be very glad to go... (Bengali)
Krsna dasa Babaji: (Bengali) [break]
Tamala Krsna: No. Improvement hasn't come yet. Simply because you're drinking more, passing more urine, is not the sign of any improvement. (Bengali conversation between Prabhupada and Krsna dasa Babaji) (end)

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/nov/vrndavana/november/03/1977-1

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