Conversation with M.P.,
Shri Sita Ram Singh

May 19, 1977, Vrndavana
Sita Ram Singh: I came from Delhi. I got down here: "I want holy darsanas."
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Sita Ram Singh: He told me, "His lordship in good health..." "Of course, I won't speak to him, but simply I will have his darsana." Because you are still part human being... (Prabhupada chuckles) Everyone wants a blessings of persons like you. What you have done and to remember these things... One should feel himself satisfied only after having your darsana.
Prabhupada: You... You belong to Delhi?
Sita Ram Singh: No, I belong to Bihar. I come from the... (explains where he is coming from, about his family, political party, etc., difficult to understand) But what I want, I want darsana. And if you have got any sympathy for me, kindly...
Prabhupada: I have got sympathy for everyone.
Sita Ram Singh: Ah, yes.
Prabhupada: Unfortunately nobody cares to hear.
Sita Ram Singh: That's right.
Prabhupada: They have their own program. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?
Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument... So our proposal is that unless the limbs are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the limbs of Bhagavad-gita, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties, Ch.D., D.A.C., Ph.D....
Sita Ram Singh: All they have got a party for their own selfish end. Actually though I belong toward the party, but I must (indistinct). Because they have all got their own selfish aims.
Prabhupada: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.
Sita Ram Singh: Same distressed condition.
Prabhupada: Rather, they are more distressed. Take for example, in our childhood my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we were not very rich men. But we had no want. Father was maintaining his family, getting children married, distributing the wealth. Everything very nice. And we never felt any want. In this mango season, because father saw it that "There must be a full basket of mangoes daily for the children," so we were jumping, playing and eating mangoes. And now, taking consideration of gold standard... At that time my mother was purchasing gold, twenty rupees...
Sita Ram Singh: Per tola.
Prabhupada: Twenty-two rupees. Now the same gold is six hundred rupees. So three hundred times more?
Sita Ram Singh: Yes.
Prabhupada: If my father's income was three hundred rupees, increased by three hundred, it becomes nine thousand. So where is the nine thousand rupees income for a middle-class man?
Sita Ram Singh: Quite.
Prabhupada: Nine thousand rupees', ten thousand rupees' income is for very, very big man. But comparing, say, sixty-seventy years ago, we were a middle-class man, so a middle-class man has not increased his income from three hundred rupees to ten thousand rupees. That means everybody has become poor. So where is the advancement? Simply beating the drum, will this...? In our childhood we have seen mustard oil, first-class, made in Kanpur. We were purchasing, eight annas per two and a half ser.
Sita Ram Singh: And now it has gone to ten rupees.
Prabhupada: No, thirteen rupees.
Sita Ram Singh: Thirteen rupees in our time.
Prabhupada: Ghee, first-class ghee, we were purchasing, one rupee, Vardwa(?) ghee. Now what is the price of ghee?
Indian man (1): Twenty-five.
Sita Ram Singh: Twenty rupees.
Indian man (1): Twenty, twenty-five. Between twenty and twenty-five, depending upon the place.
Prabhupada: That means between twenty-five to thirty times, the price has increased. But income has not increased.
Indian man (1): Not in the real sense.
Prabhupada: No sense. All nonsense.
Indian man (1): No sense not at all.
Sita Ram Singh: No sense. No sense at all.
Prabhupada: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [SB 7.5.31]. All over the world... Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to sastra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer. Because they are becoming godless, they must suffer. That is nature's punishment.
They won't take the real culture given by God Himself, Krsna, "Do like this." Therefore they are godless. They must suffer. Now the suffering is awaiting to the general mass of people. Durbhiksa... Anavrsti-durbhiksa-kara-piditah [SB 12.2.9]. There will be no rain from the sky, and therefore there will be no sufficient grains. Anavrsti-durbhiksa. And in the name of improving the situation, government will tax. Kara-piditah. In this way, so the people in general, they'll be so much harassed that, without being able to manage things... Acchinna-dara-dravina gacchanti giri-kananam. "Let whatever I may have to the family eating. Let me go." This is the position.
Sita Ram Singh: What will be the future of India?
Prabhupada: Anywhere. Why you are speaking of India? What is spoken in the sastra, that is not for India or for Bihar. It is for everywhere.
Sita Ram Singh: And the situation is going from bad to worse. Will it go...
Prabhupada: Yes. And at the end there will be no wheat, no rice, no sugar, no milk, and you'll have to eat... I shall eat your flesh; you shall eat my flesh. They are eating already fetus of their own sons. What is that?
Tamala Krsna: In some countries in the West...
Prabhupada: Do they not?
Tamala Krsna: In some countries in the West they perform this operation for... What do they call it?
Indian man (1): Abortion.
Tamala Krsna: Abortion. They have legalized abortion. So the unborn fetus, after it's aborted, they're eating as food.
Sita Ram Singh: They have devised also even in Indian also. I don't know about...
Prabhupada: Therefore I said, "Why do you speak of this country?" This will happen everywhere.
Sita Ram Singh: If such papa hoga,(?) how one can expect betterment of the nation?
Prabhupada: Papa? (Hindi) Prakrteh kriya...
Indian man (1): Is there any way out?
Prabhupada: Where the Krsna consciousness... Why don't you come? You'll not come. You'll stick to your own principle. Here is the way out. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti. "No." You'll make your own party, that's all, and suffer. What can be done? You'll never take good advice from Krsna. You'll take advice from Indira Gandhi. That's it.
Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi) And discontentment.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah. They are trying to adjust things by the external nature. (Hindi) Murkhayopadeso hi prakopaya na... (Hindi) Come to Krsna consciousness and be happy.
Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) "I will explain." And "Who cares for you?" (Hindi conversation) Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. (Hindi) Ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate. He is a rascal who is thinking, "I am independent," rascal number one. Everyone is thinking, "Ah! I am independent." What is their independence? Hm? (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) [break] (Hindi conversation) We are preaching Bhagavad-gita as it is. (Hindi) ...compromise and interpretation... (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Sita Ram Singh: So all, all over world...
Prabhupada: All over the world.
Sita Ram Singh: ...you have got this culture.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) They have been described as Hindu, "Hindu Americans." (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Indian man (3): No, but is there any facility for getting Indian citizenship?
Prabhupada: No, no, no. We don't want citizenship. What they will do with citizen..., Indian citi...?
Indian man (3): Then what is the difficulty?
Prabhupada: Difficulty is... Let them live here as permanent residents, just like I am American permanent resident. I am not citizen. If I like, I can become citizen. But what is the use of becoming citizen? It is as good as citizen. (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: Within that period they have to go back.
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course, they have to go back, but...
Prabhupada: No, extension... (Hindi) Generally.
Indian man (3): They don't give you this for permanent residentship...
Prabhupada: No.
Indian man (3): ...even, say, for two years, four years, five years...
Prabhupada: No, no. No.
Sita Ram Singh: But this is amended. (Hindi) ...this is amended. This must be amended. This should be brought to the knowledge of authorities.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Sita Ram Singh: Why do they not allow them to stay to serve the mission?
Prabhupada: So we have no... We don't think anything in the...
Sita Ram Singh: Rajbhai Sampatte, he's a religious-minded man.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: And he should make a point. But the case should be just signed. Of course, a mandate of residency(?) of your admission should also be...
Indian man (3): Could the government not do the such and such...
Prabhupada: "Go out!" (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: So he came elected. Because he's in power, Rajbhai is in power, whatever he has got...
Prabhupada: But who will induce him to give up?
Indian man (3): If he can... He can elect him.
Prabhupada: He can do everything, but who will induce him to do?
Sita Ram Singh: I don't know when I shall go to Delhi again, but in case if I go, I will bear it in mind. But meanwhile, I shall humbly request you that some of persons of your mission should also go and should bring him here so that he can find out a time to come to this mission. And because after seeing the all activities of the mission he may be rather much more convinced of the fact that this resolution(?) should be abolished. It is a special case. For the mission purpose this should be abolished.
Prabhupada: Missionary visa... (Hindi) That because he's Vaisnava, he'll not go.
Sita Ram Singh: You see, seven lakhs of rupees are unnecessarily used every year.
Prabhupada: And just now I have got news. We have got a branch in Ceylon. So we thought that instead of going back to U.S.A. or Europe, let him go to Ceylon and renew the visa. So I hear that they have been forbidden, not to issue visa to our boys. (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: (Hindi) Rather, the Constitution is molded from bad to worse. This point should be repaired. I have got feeling for that.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Sita Ram Singh: When I go next time to Delhi I shall write letter. I have got address of this mission here. I shall write a letter here, and one of the representatives will go. I will give that...
Prabhupada: No, you can speak to Mr. Vajpai. He is in charge of foreigners. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation to end)

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