Room Conversation

March 2, 1977, Mayapura
Prabhupada: In so many ways Krsna is trying to convince that living soul is different, completely different from matter. Acchedyo 'yam adahyo 'yam: "It cannot be cut into pieces. It cannot be burned. It cannot be moistened. It cannot be dried up." In so many ways... "It does not take birth. It does not die. It is not finished after the body is finished." This is the greatest ignorance. And if they want to keep people in ignorance, that is not good business. In the name of education, cheating people. Why there should be education? What is the benefit?
Giriraja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit in that. It just makes people more unhappy.
Prabhupada: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Visayah khalu sarvatah syat. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratificationno distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?
Hari-sauri: Intellectual sense gratification.
Prabhupada: What is that intellectual?
Giriraja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.
Prabhupada: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to dieyou die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? [break] What is the situation of the tenants?
Giriraja: Um... Well, nobody is immediately planning to vacate, and the hopes of the cases is always delayed. Actually the lawyer says that the court is dealing with cases before 1973. Actually the judicial system is very bad.
Prabhupada: Very bad.
Giriraja: They go on giving dates, but actually they have no intention of settling it. So he said that the only cases they are finalizing are in the year before or two years before when we filed our cases. So he thinks it will just go on until the cases of those years come up.
Prabhupada: We have got only one case of Deva, Deva...
Giriraja: Devashan. Then actually there's one other which was carried over from Mrs. Nair. When she was the landlady one tenant left and put another person there. But, I mean, the tenants are... I mean they're gaining more and more respect for us.
Prabhupada: After all, they are human being.
Giriraja: Yes. Actually most people are. They see the book distribution, the construction, and the time factor, that we are still pushing on. We're not going away. Many factors. They see the leaders are also appreciating our activities. Actually our movement is very all-encompassing. Our movement is all-encompassing. I mean I've really seen from Svarupa Damodara that... Your same teachings we can dress up in different garbs and present to anyone, and they will be convinced, unless they are very envious.
Prabhupada: Iron-clad demons, they will be made remain.
Giriraja: But innocent people, they can be convinced. One thing I was concerned about for the pandal is that many of these leading personalities, they want to meet Your Divine Grace. But at the same time it might be very strenuous for you to come from Juhu every day.
Prabhupada: Not every day.
Giriraja: Just selected days. The other alternative would be to arrange a place closer to the pandal, but then it would have to be with some member like Karttikeya or someone.
Prabhupada: That is near pandal, Karttikeya's house?
Giriraja: Well, it's about a fifteen or twenty minute drive.
Prabhupada: That is also good.
Giriraja: Because, I mean, if your health permits and if you could come every day, then we could arrange very leading people for all of those days...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Giriraja: ...and it would enthuse them.
Prabhupada: Yes. Bombay is good place for propaganda, for making any movement popular.
Giriraja: Yes. People are very modern and advanced. In Delhi they're all...
Prabhupada: Servant of.
Giriraja: Too much afraid of the government.
Prabhupada: Servant class. They are not independent. [break] So I am very seriously thinking about organizing your institute. So how much hopeful it is?
Svarupa Damodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential. It is a great future, and I can see that if we start publishing the first journal, volume, then it's going to attract many people from the academic circles and intellectual surroundings, and in some time I can see there will be a whole new field of preaching in the academic circles all over the world, not only in India and United States, Canada, but Europe. Europe is going to be observe better centers along these lines. In fact, there are some very leading men in Cambridge and Oxford going to open the whole...
Prabhupada: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. So we have our Indian headquarters in Bombay, and we can organize in such a manner that...
Prabhupada: Where you will give them place?
Giriraja: Well, we could give them where your quarters used to be. Next to the sannyasi asrama.
Prabhupada: Will that do?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. Especially when our new temple is complete, that lecture hall or that theater hall...
Giriraja: Oh, yes. This is just in the meantime.
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, just for the time being?
Giriraja: Yeah.
Svarupa Damodara: Yeah. For the time being actually, we are planning to finish up some of the articles that we have been writing. We want to make it in a final form. So the other two scientists are also here. The answer has to be printed, and Gopala Krsna promised me he could print it in our Bombay BBT. So we are just about ready to print about a few articles so that we can print as a monograph. Then, in about three months or so, I'm planning to leave for the States by the first week of April or so.
Prabhupada: First week of?
Svarupa Damodara: Pardon?
Prabhupada: First week? What did...?
Svarupa Damodara: Yeah, at the end of the first week of April, or in the middle of April at the latest. Then, in about six months, I have decided to finish the book we have been writing. So by six months' full time, all three of us together can work hard... There's a lot to be studied, studies, studies. So I've made a proposal for the three of us in which we'd work real hard for six months to finish the book. And then, by that time we would have the first volume of the journal plus the book. So we can go out for preaching. We can all have the material for... Just speaking, sometimes it's so difficult for others to understand what's there. They want to really study our work. And then we can also do some sankirtana while we're preaching. Then in the future we might also be self-sufficient, not supplying any money from BBT. It will be a burden to the BBT fund, and so also we wanted to generate so that it can be self-sufficient, rather than donation by BBT.
Prabhupada: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.
Prabhupada: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. I'll be coming... I already requested Giriraja to make a few engagements so that... I'd like them to speak. This time I will let them speak, our two scientists, because Americans. And I want to see the reactions also. I already know my situation there, and I want to let them speak, and they are very eager to do that. I already talked with them. So I requested Giriraja to make a few very high academic circles like Atomic Research Center. One of our men is very good in quantum physics. He can talk all about this mathematical formulations and a little bit about Bhagavad-gita consciousness. So that would be...
Prabhupada: That will be... (chuckles)
Svarupa Damodara: ...very impressive to the Indian audience.
Giriraja: We know a big man in the Atomic Energy Department already, so I think you can arrange this meeting.
Prabhupada: He's convinced?
Giriraja: Well, actually we met him some time ago, and at that time he liked your books a lot. He bought some of your books and he thought that this would help purify him and his family.
Svarupa Damodara: We were already thinking of printing about a few months ago before I came here in the form of monographs. We have already finished some articles. Madhava suggested that we print this in the form of monographs and then combine within one journal. We in our Washington meeting in December we thought that idea because we thought the journal was not too far. So we printed the whole... I also want to talk with Ramesvara Maharaja since he's here about printing policies and some of the artwork we'll be needing in the journal. I want to put a lot of illustrations, scientific, and want to make it very nice as well as very scientific. So in Bombay Gopala Krsna Prabhu told me that there's not so much facility for artwork and art.
Prabhupada: Our men can do it.
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. But in BBT in Los Angeles.
Hari-sauri: They're all set up to do the whole thing, to do the artwork and print it very nicely. Gopala's artwork is just... He gets the color separations from America.
Svarupa Damodara: That is only disadvantage here. Otherwise he's ready to print. That they can do fast.
Prabhupada: So there is no harm. We can do there.
Svarupa Damodara: Where? In Los Angeles? But I don't know. Things are too slow in the West to communicate.
Prabhupada: No, you can go. In your presence you can get it done.
Svarupa Damodara: I requested our Bharadvaja Prabhu a long time ago to... Our Bhaktivedanta Institute, that he design the logo. It's almost two years. He said he would do it, but I think he's also very busy. Things too slow on that...
Hari-sauri: To design the logo?
Svarupa Damodara: Yes. The design he told me. That was in New York when Srila Prabhupada was in New York, and he talked very seriously of this request to do it. He's the expert... (end)

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