770124mw.bhu
Morning Walk

January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara
Prabhupada: Gurukrpa Maharaja, what is the benefit of this modern education?
Gurukrpa: No benefit. It makes them an ass.
Prabhupada: Making them demons, that's all.
Gurukrpa: They become puffed-up, thinking they know something. They don't know anything.
Prabhupada: Not only that, modern educated youths, they are not inclined to come to the farm. So they're giving up their own father's property, farm. They do not come back from city. The farmers' children go to cities for education, and after so-called education the rascals do not come. Here also and in your country also, America and... They want city life and enjoy restaurant and prostitute.
Satsvarupa: There is a song, "How are you going to keep them on the farm after they've seen Paris?" They don't want to go back.
Prabhupada: Ah. So much land sitting. Huge land is lying vacant, and they are complaining, "Orissa is poor. Please..." Why poor? Why don't you work? You must remain poor. You do not produce your food. Kuyoginam kusam upaiti laksmini.(?) If you work hard, Laksmi will come. Our institution is working so hard, all our devotees. Therefore we have no scarcity. We are not babajis, taking a mala and smoking bidi. "I do not go beyond Vrndavana." Rascal, loitering and associating with so many women, and they have become puffed-up, paramahamsas, Rupa Gosvami, imitation Rupa Gosvami. Only a loincloth of Rupa Gosvami. No education, no book writing, no going out of Vrndavana, begging. And therefore government's capturing them and giving this injection. What is that? Sterilization. Yes, just see. So many illegal children are born by these women. Bhajana. Bhajana kara. One babaji has at least three women, four women. That's all.
Hari-sauri: Like monkeys.
Prabhupada: Like monkeys, yes. Markata-vairagya. [break] And they are living very rich. And if you make big, big cities without industry, cities cannot be maintained. You'll require so many instruments, machine. That means you require (indistinct). If you require food, there is no need of industry.
Satsvarupa: I remember in school seeing films of India, and they would say, "This is very backward. They're living as they used to live hundreds of years ago by using the ox and the plow."
Prabhupada: Yes. Now we have, hundred years after, we have learned how to kill ox and bulls. That is your advancement. And kill your own children also. Rascal civilization. They say "primitive." I was talking with a priest in Australia. So he said, "This civilization you are suggesting, this is primitive." Do they call it primitive?
Satsvarupa: Yes.
Prabhupada: And what is the wrong with the primitive?
Satsvarupa: They think it's shocking that the way they used to live hundreds of years ago, they're still living. But in America...
Prabhupada: So what improvement you have done, rascal?
Satsvarupa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.
Prabhupada: So what is benefit of motorcar?
Satsvarupa: No benefit.
Prabhupada: Motorcar benefit means you have to start big, big industries and neglect farming.
Gurukrpa: In America they can say, "We have enough food. We have no shortage."
Prabhupada: We are not thinking "We have." We are thinking how the human society is having.
Satsvarupa: Well, they say "Let everyone help himself. We're taking care of ourselves."
Prabhupada: But why not you? What is your humanity?
Gurukrpa: So they say, "We work hard, and then they, they sit back."
Prabhupada: So why do you make...? Who...? Who do you mean by "we"? It is, everything, belonging to Krsna. You have plundered Krsna's property. You won't allow others to come in. The Chinese, the Indians, they are congested. Why? What do you mean by "we"? It is your father's property? You have stolen Krsna's property.
Gurukrpa: One may say, "But I myself work hard. Should I support the man who is lazy, doing nothing? Some are lazy. Should I work hard?"
Prabhupada: Well, that is... If you are humanitarian, you are working for humanity, and why don't you teach them? Why do you not give the opportunity. What is the missionary? You have got so many missionaries. Why don't you feed them by giving them opportunity. They want. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. That is Vaisnava. Engage everything, everyone, to good work. That is missionary. "We, you..." There is no such question, "we." We combining together, that is "we." We are all Krsna's sons. Harer nama, harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21]. Their whole philosophy is... Oh, it is very nice beach. All mango trees... Don't think in national terms. That is very heinous.
Satsvarupa: There is one book on modern religions, and he discusses yourself, Your Divine Grace, on one page, and he says that your politics are naive. He said, "It is naive, too innocent to think that we can unite the world this way under God."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: "But it's very complex situation that has to be dealt with."
Prabhupada: Then why you are trying United Nation, rascal? It may be complex, but we must try for it in the proper way. That is humanity. Why you are attempting United Nation? You know it is complex. But you do not know how to unite. This is my position. Unite on Krsna center. Then you'll be successful. You are already trying for uniting, unity, but you do not know how to unite.
Satsvarupa: Just like you say there has to be a universal center.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: So if it's complex, at least we have to start with a universal center.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, you can. We... It is already there, United Nation Organization, UNO. So take the ideas. Why you are thinking of... What is that? WHO. World Organization or..., health?
Hari-sauri: World Health Organization.
Prabhupada: Huh? Why you are trying for? Simply make a show? You are thinking already, but you do not know. Your world is your father, mother, and two sisters, that's all. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tridhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu. That is your world. A little family, a little community, that is your world. We do not think in that way. We include even the animals, trees, plants-brothers. That is our philosophy. We feel. When you cut a tree unnecessarily, we feel. This is our feeling. Unless there is absolute necessity, we do not wish to kill even a tree, what to speak of animals. When in our Bombay the coconut trees were being cut, I was feeling actually: "Why unnecessarily the coconut trees...?" You cannot give anyone life, so how, what is living, you can kill? It may be tree or animal or plant. You cannot give him life. So you have to suffer for this.
Gargamuni: Can we go inside?
Satsvarupa: He said it was open in the morning.
Gargamuni: See if we can go inside. [break]
Prabhupada: I was going to purchase ticket, Magha Mela. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."
Bhagavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.
Prabhupada: Oh, zoological.
Bhagavata: Yes, zoological. All types. And on this side they have the lions, tigers, bears... [break]
Prabhupada: ...the forest and see actually. (laughter) Hare Krsna. In Africa they're open.
Bhagavata: Yes, in that national park in Nairobi.
Prabhupada: The dog also knows that he's in the cage.
Bhagavata: This is an Indian lion, from India. They have captured in India. And they also have African lions in here.
Gurukrpa: Gujarati. It's a Gujarati.
Bhagavata: From the forest of Katiwan.(?) [break]
Prabhupada: ...monkey and cow. Rajo-guna, tamo-guna, sattva-guna. Lion in the rajo-guna, monkey in the tamo-guna and cow in the sattva-guna.
Hari-sauri: What about the cows that they slaughter? Do they have to continue in a cow birth?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavata: These are African lions.
Prabhupada: Oh. They are bigger?
Bhagavata: Little different species. Different color. (lion growls)
Satsvarupa: Don't tease him.
Prabhupada: No, don't tease him. After all, they are lion. Hm, they are bigger, very big. Here there is cubs?
Bhagavata: Inside there are cubs.
Prabhupada: So, we shall go this way or return?
Bhagavata: No. This way there is more, if you like.
Prabhupada: There is more... [break] ...then attacking themselves.
Hari-sauri: Not cannibals.
Bhagavata: This way you will see birds, many different types of birds.
Hari-sauri: They turned one of the stately homes in England into a lion reserve. You can drive through, and the lions come and jump on your car.
Prabhupada: Hm? Jumping on the car?
Hari-sauri: Yeah. Sometimes they do.
Satsvarupa: The bird isn't powerful, but he can fly away from the lion. He can fly away from the lion, but he's not powerful.
Prabhupada: Fly away?
Satsvarupa: Krsna has made him that he has some other kind of defense.
Prabhupada: What kind of defense?
Satsvarupa: He can fly away if a lion comes. You were teaching that each species has some kind of potent..., special...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. One can protect himself from bhaya, cause of fearfulness. They are given food?
Bhagavata: Yes, they give the animals food.
Prabhupada: What does he say?
Bhagavata: He said we have to... Now the ticket office is open. (laughs) This is an owl. You want to see the lake?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] The lion... What is called? Lance? Lance? They are afraid. If you have got lance, they will not attack you.
Bhagavata: In Africa there is one tribe. They are very powerful. They are called the Masai. And with one spear they know how to kill the lion, with one throw only.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Bhagavata: They are very expert.
Prabhupada: Yes. And they also know. If you have got lance in hand they will not attack.
Bhagavata: It is a custom that if they want to marry, first they must kill one lion with a spear. Then they can..., considered man for marriage, qualified.
Prabhupada: Just see. (laughs) Ksatriya spirit. Ksatriya spirit. Just qualify yourself. Then you marry.
Bhagavata: (laughing) Gargamuni Maharaja says we should introduce this in ISKCON.
Gargamuni: Then there'll be no marriage. [break]
Prabhupada: ...of ksatriya. Ksatriya girls were not married so easily. There were so many competitors. You know Rukmini, Rukmini-harana? Krsna had to fight. Without fighting there was no marriage.
Hari-sauri: Now we have fighting after marriage. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Fight your wife, not with a lion. Poor woman, helpless, no father, no husband, no son. This is the civilization. They are forlorn, and they are forced to take the profession of... What is that? What is that advertisement? Forget... Upper and down...? What is that?
Hari-sauri: Topless, bottomless.
Prabhupada: Topless, bottomless.
Bhagavata: They are forced to dancing halls.
Prabhupada: Just see. Obliged. [break] ...no means, either welfare or topless dance. No father, no son, no husband. That's civilization? Rascal civilization. Huh? They should be given protection. This is Vedic civilization. Na striya svatantryam arha... They must be given... Like children, they must be given protection. No protection. No father. Father-mother divorce. She is alone. Then no husband, no children. What is this civilization? Always helpless. I have seen so many old women feeling helpless. Yes. Oh, yes.
Hari-sauri: They stick them in a home now.
Prabhupada: Nothing. And on account of their helplessness, these rascals are enjoying: "Come here in the club, in the shop." Advertise, "Topless, bottomless." This is going on. And they claim to be civilized.
Hari-sauri: Women's liberation.
Prabhupada: Hm? What does he say?
Bhagavata: It is all right.
Hari-sauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.
Prabhupada: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmis, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nayam deho deha-bhajam..., kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhagavata. I have not manufactured. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacari, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacari and solve all the question. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Teach them, these rascalsthey are accusing, "brainwashing"that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Krsna.
Bhagavata: Here is a restaurant, and they're selling meat. On the one hand they're supposed to be protecting the animal, and on the other hand they are slaughtering and feeding people meat.
Prabhupada: Protect the animal? This is not protecting. This is another slaughterhouse.
Hari-sauri: This is slow slaughter.
Prabhupada: Slow slaughter. They have no independence. (laughs) This is not protection.
Hari-sauri: This is prison.
Prabhupada: Yes, this is prison.
Bhagavata: There's cottages here, Srila Prabhupada, where you can live right on the lake. Very beautiful place.
Prabhupada: How many days? Three days?
Bhagavata: Up to seven days, I think.
Prabhupada: Seven days.
Bhagavata: And this is very large birds, bird sanctuary.
Prabhupada: Crane. [break] ...in the forest. In the park.
Satsvarupa: They were not even in cages. I met an Indian man on the plane coming here, and I was speaking on the Bhagavad-gita. I was saying that "In your next life a person could become an animal." He said, "No. The Bhagavad-gita teaches if you come to human life, then you don't be reborn lower." I asked him to show me a verse. He didn't know.
Prabhupada: "Then why you are talking like rascal?" You should have said like that.
Satsvarupa: He said, "I know Bhagavad-gita, and my father and all our relatives, we all study Bhagavad-gita." But he couldn't...
Prabhupada: "And you do not know anything." (laughter) What is the use of... So we shall go further? No.
Bhagavata: Would you like to return?
Prabhupada: No, we shall go. The, what is called, evolution theory... Darwin said they take from monkey. But they do not know wherefrom the monkey comes. Does he give it chronologically?
Satsvarupa: No. They say that both humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But they don't know what that is.
Prabhupada: Who was your ancestor? (laughter) Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. There is chronological order followed: first of all aquatics, then trees and plants, then insects, then reptiles, and in this way, then birds, then beasts, then human being. Which way? This? No.
Bhagavata: If you want to go out, this way. [break]
Prabhupada: ...it from Padma Purana, and he has explained in his own imagination. The idea has been taken from Padma Purana because the Padma Purana, it is already there, evolution. Asatim caturams caiva. Eighty-four laksa means hundred thousand, 8,400,000. That is also given. Where is that, that Darwin's theory?
Bhagavata: They have no number of species.
Prabhupada: Imperfect idea. He wanted to credit himself. He has stolen the idea from Padma Purana and wanted to explain in his own way, imagination, speculation.
Bhagavata: The actual evolution is that the soul goes...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavata: ...from the species, from one species to another in chronological order.
Gurukrpa: Srila Prabhupada, even if they... In all their researches, if they came across this information, I don't think they would reveal it to the world.
Prabhupada: How they would reveal? They are thieves and rogues. Their idea is: three thousand years ago there was no civilization. This is their poor idea.
Bhagavata: [break] I was speaking with him. He's an Indian here in Bhuvanesvara. He said Vyasa could not have written the Vedas five thousand years ago because writing did not start till 2,500 years ago. I said, "What is your proof?" He said, "Because we can see in the caves the markings, and these things did not come till 2,500 years ago." I said, "Do you think Vyasa was a cave man, that he was banging on the walls with hammers?" So I said, "He is a great professor." He said, "No, no. Actually Vyasa is not even a person. He's only a school." So I said, "Well, you do not understand." These are very atheistic type of people. [break]
Prabhupada: ...taking Bhagavad-gita as some imaginary writing, a school, thinking that.
Satsvarupa: "A work of many hands," they say.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satsvarupa: "Not one author."
Prabhupada: They do not take it that Krsna is God and He's speaking. They do not believe. "God is imperson."
Bhagavata: His only proof was carbon dating, and that carbon dating has already been proven wrong so many times.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Bhagavata: Can prajapatis give birth to different species of animal life from their own bodies?
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes.
Satsvarupa: Prajapatis, humans, they give birth to animals in the beginning.
Prabhupada: Crocodile. [break] ...topless, is that freedom for the woman? The shop is open from ten to four a.m. I have seen the signboard in Texas. Is that freedom for the woman? They have no means of livelihood, and they come.
Satsvarupa: But those women who advocate woman's liberation, they also say that that is not freedom for women, that the men are using the women.
Prabhupada: Not only that, I have seen that if one woman is speaking... He (she) was sitting. I am going. "Oh, she has got a husband." Immediately I studied all this, this happening of her life. She was... She became very surprised that he's (she's), her friend had a husband.
Gurukrpa: Thing is that the marriages are simply based on sex. Therefore the marriages don't last long.
Prabhupada: That means they want permanent husband. That is their heart's desire, but no husband. Is that civilization? And here the father's duty is that "Before she attains puberty, let me find out husband, suitable." This is civilization. "And she was under my care, I give in charity to a suitable boy: 'My dear boy, you take charge of this girl. I give you some dowry and decorate that girl. Be happy.' "
Satsvarupa: They criticize this in ISKCON, that the leaders pick out husband and wife.
Prabhupada: That's it.
Satsvarupa: And that they're not allowed to mix freely. They say, "Well how do you know who you want to marry unless you can mix with that person?"
Prabhupada: There is no question of "how do you want?" You require, and the parents is the best selector. It is not the question, "How do you like?" It is the guardians' duty to find out a suitable husband or a suitable wife. Nowadays the boys and girls, they do not take parents' guidance, and they are not happy.
Hari-sauri: The thing is the parents are not qualified to give any guidance any more either.
Prabhupada: Qualified, that is not very difficult. For the girl, find out a boy who is hard worker or a little educated. Bas. That's all. That was the selection. Then fortune. You give a daughter under the care of the boy who can work hard. That's all. They then will earn their livelihood. Even there is no education, a hard worker will do. A boy, as soon as has got the sense that "I have got a wife to maintain," he'll work. That is impetus to give him to work for the family. And if a boy gets wife or woman without any hard working, they why he should marry? And if he has got responsibility that "I have to maintain my wife; then I can enjoy," then he becomes responsible. Wooden bridge?
Gurukrpa: That is like Australia. That is Australia.
Prabhupada: Australia?
Gurukrpa: Yes, the whole country is...
Prabhupada: Wooden bridge.
Gurukrpa: Roads like this. Just in Melbourne and Sydney, nice roads. I think I saw better roads in India. I was very surprised.
Prabhupada: Thing is they do not know engineering. They have no business. [break]
Satsvarupa: The modern young person thinks, "I don't want someone to tell me the truth. I don't want someone to pick out who my husband or wife is. I want to be free to experiment and find out for myself. Then I'll know."
Prabhupada: But where is your freedom?
Satsvarupa: That I don't have someone to tell me what to do. I will learn by my own experience.
Prabhupada: Then why do you go to school? Huh?
Satsvarupa: Well, nowadays school also, they don't think that the professor is like their guru.
Prabhupada: After all, the parents send the children to school to learn. Why not freedom?
Satsvarupa: Yes. That's a good argument.
Prabhupada: When you go in your childhood on the street, why the father does not give you freedom? You'll... You get freedom to die, and the parents takes your freedom to save. So which is better, to die or to be saved?
Satsvarupa: To be saved.
Prabhupada: So then?
Satsvarupa: But I need their help when I'm a child. But when I'm sixteen years old, then I...
Prabhupada: But after all, you had no freedom. Similarly, you are still child because you are speaking like a child.
Hari-sauri: Their conception of freedom is very limited.
Prabhupada: There is no freedom. Where is freedom? You have to die. Where is your freedom? You don't like to die. But you have to die.
Gurukrpa: They used to have a slogan, all the hippies: "When I have to die, I'm the one that has to die. So let me live my life the way I want to."
Prabhupada: What is that? "When I have to die"?
Gurukrpa: "I have to experience it. Therefore let me live the way I want to. When it's time for me to die, it's my death."
Prabhupada: But when there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die, but when there is warning of death, why you fly? (laughter) Rascal, why you fly? That means you do not want to die. You give this slogan, that "When there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die." (laughter) It is a rascal civilization, that's all. Western civilization is a rascal civilization. I do not take they are civilized even. No. White aborigines. That's all. [break] Mahaprabhu says, janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara. In other countries there is no civilization. In India there is civilization. Just you become civilized and distribute this knowledge.
This Krsna consciousness movement is that para upakara. They do not know what is civilization. Such broader idea of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never said that "Sit down in Vrndavana and become a babaji." Kara para upakara. That is sankirtana.
This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's preaching. Karuna-sindhu, the ocean of mercy, it was blocked. Let it be opened, and distribute throughout the whole world. So if you work vigorously, this is an epoch-making history, how real culture is being distributed for the benefit of the whole human society. They'll realize. What do you think? Eh?
Satsvarupa: Yes, we have to do it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Human life is denied the advantage of this life. Hari hari biphale janama gonainu. Simply wasting time by sense gratification, for sense gratification. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti na sadhu manye... [SB 5.5.4]. "Oh, this is not civilization." Yata atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehah: "You are going to get again body. You are suffering so much still. That's your plan? Who is happy who has got a material body? Who is happy? Find out. And still, you are going to get another material body? Is that civilization?" Na sadhu manye. "It is not good. Don't work hard for getting another body." This is Vedic civilization. Na sadhu manye: "Oh, it is not good." Sadhu means good. "Why it is not? We are enjoying." Not enjoying. You are going to get another body. "So what is the harm if I get one more body?" Now, klesada: "You'll simply suffer as soon as you get body." Klesada. More material body means klesada, to be prepared for suffering. That they do not know. They are thinking, "enjoying." This is maya. He's preparing for another suffering condition and he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is...
Gurukrpa: Maya.
Prabhupada: This is maya, what is not. He has to work for not to get any more material body, but he's working for that. (end)

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jan/morning_walk/bhuvanesvara/january/24/1977

If you Love Me Distribute My Books -- Srila Prabhupada