Morning Conversation

April 23, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: ...sinful. And for this bluffing, they have spent millions, er, billions of...
Tamala Krsna: It said thirty billion dollars just for that one episode. In the article the man says that many Americans already feel the same way he does, that it's a bluff.
Prabhupada: From the very beginning I have said it is childish, 1958. I am not scientist. I have no... No, there are so many incidences. I never agreed, "It may be they have gone." They did not go.
Tamala Krsna: He has very elaborately described how they faked everything. He gave in great detail how each part of the hoax was perpetrated. The thing is...
Prabhupada: The Apollo, they were dying. They prayed to God. This is also artificial. Hm?
Tamala Krsna: Our conclusion was that those three men who died were killed, that they never knew that there was a hoax while they were in training. Then, at the time when the spacecraft was going to take off they were told, "Now you're not going anywhere. This is only a hoax, so you have to act like this," and probably they did not want to. They refused. Therefore they were killed. We were discussing this yesterday, Gargamuni, Sridhara Maharaja, Bali-mardana and myself. That was our conclusion, that those men must have been killed by the government.
Prabhupada: Otherwise they'll disclose.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. And thereafter no one else died. After that, others did not die, probably because they were told that "Don't you do the same thing or you'll meet with the same fate. Unless you toe the line and... Then you will also be dealt with very severely." Because they're such big cheaters, they will not stop at anything. Killing to them is nothing.
Prabhupada: Killing affair should not be regarded, criminal affair.
Prabhupada: They can kill even the president. Because they are meat-eaters, there is no mercy. What is mercy, they do not know. Vina pasu-ghnat. Pasu-ghna. Mercilessly they kill animals, and they become accustomed to merciless...
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: That is Muhammadans' theory. They can do merciless thing.
Tamala Krsna: We were discussing that this paper that it came out in is a small, very small paper. Probably... The question is whether any newspaper... I mean, why such a small newspaper carried the story and not a big newspaper? That is the real question. I mean, obviously the man must have gone to many places. But why no one would touch that story? That is the next thing. Because they're all afraid. They're also implicated. They all reported. That means they were also implicated.
Prabhupada: I don't think we shall add in our...
Tamala Krsna: No, we concluded that... The thing is that it's clear... This man will probably get no... No one will listen to him. Everybody will think that it is raving of a madman. Just like whenever the reporters... I remember the Los Angeles...
Prabhupada: He has given very good reasoning.
Tamala Krsna: Everything is reasonable. But so were your reasons. Just like when you met with the reporter from Los Angeles Times, I remember last year... When this question comes up they, inside they are laughing. When they hear our opinion they think it is a joke. They cannot conceive that the whole thing could be a hoax. We were discussing that actually, that the nation is more dear to most people than their family is, because one will get divorced from his family, but who will give up citizenship? Very rarely does anyone give up his citizenship. But people divorce again and again. So to... The nation is something very strong, that affection, and nation, in America, means this moon shot, all of these things, the truthfulness of the leaders. So this is too shocking. Probably the American people could not swallow it.
Prabhupada: Yes. (indistinct) Lie.
Tamala Krsna: Right. Why no other newspaper carried the story?
Prabhupada: It is only because I disbelieved, he disagreed. (referring to Purusottama?) He disagreed with me from that moment. He thought me foolish that I do not believe scientific research.
Tamala Krsna: That was in London, I think. I remember.
Prabhupada: He was a good boy, very good boy. Only for this reason he left. The whole institution he left. Where he is now?
Tamala Krsna: We have not heard from him. Last time he was staying with St. Paul.
Prabhupada: Yes, the incarnation of St. Paul.
Tamala Krsna: But since that time we have not heard anything.
Prabhupada: That is also insanity. (sound of metal dishes) No taste.
Tamala Krsna: The milk has no taste or you have no taste, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: I have no taste. And maybe (laughs) has no taste.
Tamala Krsna: In India there's no telling. Generally, recently the milk has been of a good standard, good quality. You might have more taste for lassi. That's a little sweet and nice.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: And it's also very good for digestion.
Prabhupada: So give me lassi.
Upendra: Now?
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Because we get lots of that dahi. You drink it cool with a little sugar in it. I think it's good for digestion, dahi. How are you feeling today, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Not feel so... That jhuri was very heavy for me. Jhuri, jhuri. What is called?
Tamala Krsna: Heavy. Yeah, I ate some and I couldn't digest it. Even now they're sitting. Very hard to digest. I tried to take some jira water this morning to help to digest it. Then I took some dahi milk, and I think that helped. I drank a lot of dahi.
Prabhupada: So you can give me little jira water.
Upendra: What time, do you happen to know?
Tamala Krsna: Eleven... I mean, I won't say it's correct. I have eleven minutes after.
Upendra: Yeah, that's...
Prabhupada: And the idea was to prove that Americans are better advanced in science than China and Russia. That was the only aim. Only for this purpose they spent three billions...?
Tamala Krsna: Thirty billion. And I think also it keeps the people loyal to their... It's the same idea. If you're the best, then the people automatically follow you. "If we're the best nation, then all of our citizens will follow us, respect us, loyal to the nation because the nation is the best in the world."
Prabhupada: That is admitted by others. Therefore the Britishers, they took shelter of the Americans when they were defeated in Europe. And the Americans, they have got a special leaning towards British. Mostly they came from British Isles. For colonization, Britishers are most forward.
Tamala Krsna: In previous years.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Previous centuries. The Spanish also, Spanish and Portugal, Portuguese. And Dutch. They were also active. But British was the topmost. France, not so much, I think. Spanish did quite well.
Prabhupada: India was discovered by the Portugal, Portuguese, Vasco de Gama. Pondicherry is Portuguese colony. Goa. Goa.
Tamala Krsna: Pondicherry?
Prabhupada: Goa.
Tamala Krsna: Goa. Pondicherry is in Goa?
Prabhupada: No, near Goa.
Tamala Krsna: The whole thing was conceived by this Aurobindo.
Prabhupada: He wanted to leave British possessions. No, Pondicherry was French.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, French. So that Pondicherry was Aurobindo's idea? What was the motive?
Prabhupada: He wanted to become a famous yogi to bring the world atmosphere in order.
Tamala Krsna: Complete failure.
Prabhupada: Complete failure. Krsna says, duhkhalayam asasvatam: [Bg. 8.15] "It is a place for suffering." This rascal wanted to make it for enjoyment. Everyone is trying. Everyone is trying to make the commode a very nice room.
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) That's a pithy saying. Actually you remember that... In your Devasadana, in your Detroit palace, that toilet, the commode there, is better than any man's house in India practically.
Prabhupada: Very difficult to deal with the people of this world. They are so nasty. They can do anything.
Tamala Krsna: They're not at all civilized.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rama-rajya, and Lord Rama decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sitadevi was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sita had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brahmanas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.
Prabhupada: Accha? There was attempt to kill?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.
Prabhupada: Pakistan is spoiled now.
Tamala Krsna: Is there any chance of uniting with India again, Pakistan?
Prabhupada: They will.
Tamala Krsna: Really?
Prabhupada: Because otherwise they are finished.
Tamala Krsna: They've already lost Bangladesh. That's half of Pakistan.
Prabhupada: They have no economic position. Very poor. Very, very poor. No international relationship. Even their plane does not go international. Within the... They have no means to go. And who will, international plane, they will take, Pakistan?
Tamala Krsna: No, no one.
Prabhupada: Neither, except Iran plane, nobody can fly over. I have seen it.
Tamala Krsna: Air India does also.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: There are some flights, Air India flights. That's natural because there's business connection, India and Pakistan. Only Iranian planes...
Prabhupada: Most unclean.
Tamala Krsna: So you think that they'll reunite.
Prabhupada: If they want good. Separation on the religious consideration, that was the mistake.
Tamala Krsna: That was...?
Prabhupada: Great mistake.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, there are Muslims and Hindus here, no problem, in India.
Prabhupada: And that sentiment was fanned by the Britishers.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. (pause) Last night you translated only a little bit?
Prabhupada: Not feeling at all well.
Tamala Krsna: Not feeling well at all.
Prabhupada: It is being continued. It is being continued now and then.
Tamala Krsna: Feeling ill. I really had a bad..., also, from these... I took these noodles, and I felt like they were sitting in my stomach without being digested.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Stopped up. That is the feeling. They were not made correctly, that's one thing.
Prabhupada: (laughs) No, it was made correctly.
Tamala Krsna: They were.
Prabhupada: But it is very...
Tamala Krsna: Heavy.
Prabhupada: ...difficult to digest.
Tamala Krsna: I had the ones that were not fried properly.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: So simply they were soaked with ghee. I got the rejected ones.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Tamala Krsna: So they were simply soaking.
Prabhupada: Oh, they could not give.
Tamala Krsna: Some of them were all right.
Prabhupada: It has to be done in high flame.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. The ones they served you were correct, but still they were heavy. But the ones I got were probably the first attempt or something. So they had sunk to the bottom.
Prabhupada: They never become expert. He'll remain student for life. (laughs)
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
Prabhupada: They are not old, but they have no intelligence. The hippie life spoiled them. Varna-sankara. Hippies means varna-sankara. No father, no mother, some are only children, doing irresponsible everything, making the whole situation hellish. How Bhagavata predicted long hair? That is very astonishing. This confirms the Bhagavata authority.
Tamala Krsna: That's a very minute detail, prediction.
Prabhupada: There are so many minute details, but this particularly...
Tamala Krsna: Why does it...?
Prabhupada: ...strikes.
Tamala Krsna: Why does it strike you particularly?
Prabhupada: It is very insignificant thing, personal. And it is said, personal, if you keep long hair, it will look... But it has been made here, it is said that "People will think like that, that he has become more beautiful." The psychology. Lavanyam kesa-dharanam. They rejected all other things. Simply they'll think that "If I keep long hair, I'll be very beautiful." This psychological study is there. And five thousand years before, prediction. How much authoritative the book is, just imagine. Is it not fact? Vyasadeva's authority, try to... How perfectly authorized he is. They're stating psychological effect of people five thousand years ahead. Not only that, there are many descriptions what will be the name two thousand, three thousand years... Generally said, "This name will be like this. This name will be like this. Your son, grandson, great-grandson, what will be their names, this is..." So why shall we not believe just that statement of planetary system? If they are so correct... Planetary system is already there, but they are foretelling what in future, it will happen. That is my conviction. Therefore I do not believe anyone except Bhagavata, Bhagavad-gita. That is my science. They speculate. I don't believe it. Why shall I...? And in the beginning Vyasadeva said, kim anyaih sastraih: "Take only Srimad-Bhagavatam as the book of knowledge. Bas. You need not read any other." Nigama-kalpa-taror galitam phalam idam: [SB 1.1.3] "This is essence of all Vedic knowledge." (pause) There are so many gentlemen here. They want to give their property, house, outside Bombay, to this institution.
Tamala Krsna: Unless we can properly manage them though, there's no use taking them.
Prabhupada: Land, house, they are free. But there is no arrangement we can make.
Tamala Krsna: I think the real key is this book distribution.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: If we increase our book distribution, we'll automatically get...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Tamala Krsna: ...people to join.
Prabhupada: They're actually seeing.
Tamala Krsna: No, I meant that unless we make devotees...
Prabhupada: This is a unique in the history that an Indian sannyasi has done so alone. That is unique. It is recorded in history. So therefore they are appreciating. They can... They have got common sense that "These rascal go and talk." Now this Bala Yogi has stopped his activities.
Tamala Krsna: Completely.
Prabhupada: Because he has come to know that if we can capture, it will be dangerous. And this... What is that? Transcendental Meditation?
Prabhupada: That Mahesh Yogi.
Tamala Krsna: Mahesh, Maharishi.
Prabhupada: Yes. He is also.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, they're starting to get wise to him now.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: They're starting to catch on to him now, and when they do it's going to be a big scandal because he really made it into the American..., all over the world, but especially in America. He even got into the Army. They were teaching Transcendental Meditation in the Army. Even in schools... He had it in public schools. He said, "It is not at all religious. It's science, and it should be taught. Just like you teach gymnastics, you should also teach this." So if this becomes exposed, oh... It'll also hurt us indirectly, but actually it'll be good for us. But naturally they'll think that "All of these groups are now bogus." He's very much accepted in the public mind. But now the Congressional committees are investigating him.
Prabhupada: And ours is accepted.
Tamala Krsna: Our is very accepted.
Prabhupada: That's a great achievement.
Prabhupada: That should be, this Congressional... Who has got so many temples?
Tamala Krsna: No, they have a lot of offices, but they don't have any temples where Deities are worshiped. None of them. They don't touch Deity worship.
Prabhupada: Rogues and thieves, what they know about Deity worship?
Tamala Krsna: Neither they have any books.
Prabhupada: Simply words, long, long.
Tamala Krsna: Words. And promises.
Prabhupada: Cheating. Cheating. Yes, everyone with common sense can understand that "What philosophy?" Here they see practically character, philosophy, devotion, faith, strict discipline. Any gentleman will appreciate.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, the gentlemen are very much impressed, especially, Mr. Mokta(?), people like that. They can see.
Prabhupada: And Indians are appreciating that "Foreigners, they have taken to Krsna consciousness, not Indians."
Tamala Krsna: For the first time they can see that the foreigners are appreciating India's culture, not trying to squash it.
Prabhupada: And practically applying their life, not that simply...
Tamala Krsna: Official.
Prabhupada: ...official.
Tamala Krsna: There's no doubt. And it is all due to your credit. Single-handedly, Srila Prabhupada... Even now everything is being done strictly by your instruction and guidance.
Prabhupada: Now I am getting old, old age, not good health, so try to give me relief. Otherwise it is too much. Brain has to be taxed. But if my foreign(?) business is there, if you tax my brain in this way, that will be suffer. So try to give me relief from this managerial... (pause) Still I can hint like this. But where is the work going on?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, you have to just point it out to me like that.
Prabhupada: There is no work. So dangerous.
Tamala Krsna: Actually I told some people to meet me, so maybe I should... Regarding this. They may be waiting for me outside.
Prabhupada: Go. (end)

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