Conversation with Yadubara
(after seeing film)

April 17, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: Nice. So how it is reacting amongst the public?
Yadubara: Well, the people seem to like it, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: They will like it.
Yadubara: I was surprised, but the karmis, their attention is held throughout the film. They seem to enjoy it very much. And several people have said that "It is very clear now that we're not the body."
Prabhupada: It will be a great service if you can educate. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. To keep them as animals is a great sin. Our Svarupa Damodara has got this film?
Yadubara: No.
Prabhupada: Not yet.
Yadubara: It just came out.
Prabhupada: Oh. We can produce more detailed film later on.
Yadubara: You asked us to make that one point, that we're not the body.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Yadubara: In Mayapura last year you asked me to make that one point, that we're not the body. So we tried to do that only.
Prabhupada: That's nice. That can be, and this..., done that.
Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?
Prabhupada: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is antimaterial world, Vaikuntha world, where you can actually live. Na jayate na mriyate va. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Krsna. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mam aprapya nivartante mrtyu-samsara-vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehantara, that is very dangerous. Tatha dehantara, you have to change your body. Stop this. If you are scientist, stop it. Continue as American forever. Why you cannot? Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? Then you are under control. You have constructed this skyscraper building. Live here forever. Why don't you live? Kicked out. In the same house can become a cockroach because you have got attachment. "All right. Live here as cockroach." Who can check it? Cockroach is also life. Dehantara. The proprietor becomes cockroach. Can you check it? Nature will do. Now we are proprietor, next life a cockroach. "Live here in your skyscraper building." How much valuable time he has wasted by constructing this skyscraper building. He remains there in the photograph, and actually his life is in the commode. Cockroach. He is living in the commode, and his son's worshiping his photograph. This is... This is called ignorance. Very misleading civilization this is. So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. This is Krsna consciousness movement. We are trying ourself to be perfect and trying to teach others perfect life. Krsna begins His teaching from this understanding. "You are not this body." This is beginning of Bhagavad-gita. And in the bodily concept of life where is spiritual knowledge? They talk of spiritual, that life is... First of all one has to understand that "I am not this body." Aham brahmasmi. Athato brahma jijnasa. "Then if I am Brahman, then what is my value? So far I have led my bodily concept of life, but I am Brahman?" Then brahma-jijnasa. Athato brahma jijnasa. How Brahman lives, how Brahman is produced, what is his real life. So I think this film will be useful for Svarupa Damodara.
Yadubara: We would like to try to get it in the schools, in high schools and colleges.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. And ask them to read Bhagavad-gita. They will get all information.
Tamala Krsna: The movie should be given out with also a copy of Bhagavad-gita along with it. To be a part of the film.
Prabhupada: You can give in this course(?) Bhagavad-gita, Sanskrit, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Or the English translation. You have got that abridged edition?
Tamala Krsna: No, we don't have a copy of it here.
Prabhupada: How is that you don't have copy? Find out...
Yadubara: To show that on the film? At the end?
Prabhupada: It is best to impress them: "You read this book; you get all information."
Yadubara: It's a little bit difficult to change the film.
Prabhupada: No. That I am suggesting. If it is difficult, that is another thing. But this should be.
Yadubara: It should be there.
Prabhupada: And actually, there is evidence.
Yadubara: What about reincarnation, Srila Prabhupada? What about transmigration of the soul? 'Cause we were thinking to do that for a next film, because it seems like a very natural thing.
Prabhupada: Transmigration, how it can be shown? The mind, intelligence, and ego you cannot see. But you will have to accept there is mind.
Yadubara: We have not really worked out any details.
Prabhupada: Details, you cannot show it. It is so fine. Just like here is the sky, but you cannot see it. The mind is finer than the sky. The air is sky. (claps) That is sky. Where is the proof? (claps) That you cannot see. Sabda, sound. Sound is the sign of presence of sky. But you cannot see it. But it is there. (claps) This is the proof.
Tamala Krsna: It can be suggested only.
Prabhupada: That's all. Therefore sruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.
Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequencewhen the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamala Krsna Goswami said, certain ideas.
Prabhupada: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Krsna. Itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param, jiva-bhutam maha-baho [Bg. 7.5]. Beyond this material things, there is another prakrti. That is the... That does not die. Na jayate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhutasya dehasya tatah punar agamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Krsna does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So will you accept the atheists or Krsna? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Krsna says, "No," na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober. These restless rascals, how they will become sober? Suppose a child is restless child, how can you convince him about philosophy? Sober man, cool-headed man, he can be convinced. So this is a childish civilization. This is not sober civilization. There is no full-brain man. All restless dogs and hogs. And they have taken it is first class, dogs and hogs. Actually, they are living dogs and hogs, and they are claiming civilized. There is no difference dogs and hogs life and the modern man. The dogs and hogs whole day work. Kastan kaman arhate. In London, in New York, early in the morning they will to the work, put-put-put-put. They could not take rest even at night peacefully. The anxiety is "If I do not reach early in the factory, I will (indistinct). The whole day's salary will be..." He is anxious. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam. Always full of anxieties. Asad grahat. On account of this body. The same principle is being followed by the hogs. "Where is food, where is food?" So where is the difference, the hog civilization? Simply by dressing. If you dress a hog, he becomes human being? So they are after this dress. Vasamsi jirnani. They do not know what is his civilization, what is life, nothing. And when you go to preach, "Ah, we have to take from India knowledge, a poverty-stricken?" They do not know this is not that India, poverty-stricken. It is full of knowledge India, Krsna consciousness. Then there is no poverty. Those who have left this knowledge, they are poverty-stricken. We are not poverty-stricken.
Yadubara: I would like to show the origins of Krsna consciousness in India in the next film.
Prabhupada: Origin? There is no origin. It is always there. Origin is Krsna. He has always been. Aham evasam agre. The Bhagavata sloka. Where is that sloka, aham eva asam agre? First part? Where is that Gita-bhasya.(?) You are doing nice. Go on doing like that. Try your best to convince. Manusyanam sahasresu [Bg. 7.3]. Out of many millions of men, one can understand Krsna. So what the lawyer says? What is his name?
Giriraja: Mr. Jethmalani. I said I would come and meet him. I also wanted to show him the movie. So he said that "I would prefer to come back here, because it is so nice." Actually, when he was... After he washed his hands, he looked out of the balcony, and he said that just from this atmosphere, one can feel a sense of ecstasy.
Tamala Krsna: Those bara, would you like them, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, I have taken two, more than two. I could have taken...
Tamala Krsna: More. You had a good taste for them.
Prabhupada: But I did not try it. Very nice.
Tamala Krsna: As a result of your restricting yourself to only two or three, we each got to taste one. Very palatable.
Prabhupada: And the nim is very, very good.
Tamala Krsna: She says that she will make some further nim preparations for you for lunch.
Prabhupada: Have sukta-nim also. Pick the nim. So this Karachi, he has given correct report. Very nice report. You have seen?
Prabhupada: And he is very intelligent boy. Open this. This is the real United Nations. These rascals, they are barking simply for the last thirty years, and "United." Simply barking.
Tamala Krsna: Simply more flags.
Prabhupada: Simply barking. So I told it frankly that these are association of barking dogs.
Tamala Krsna: He was a little surprised to hear such a strong statement.
Prabhupada: Yes. And actually it is a fact. Some dogs barking. "I am bulldog." "I am this dog," "I am that dog." And they waste so much energy, money and time, simply for barking. The result is nothing, no United Nations. Every day a flag is coming. Bambharambhe laghu-kriya.(?) Bharam Prahlada Maharaja says, bharam udvahate vimudhan. These rascals, they are making simply big, big arrangement. The result is nothing. Bharam udvahate vimudhan. And they remain rascal. But attempt is very gorgeous. "Oh, United Nations. Three hundred thousand flags in the..." Just see! Honorable flags. They offer obeisances to the flag, not to God. Krsna says, mam namaskuru. "No. Flag namaskuru." Just see how rascal they are. What he will gain by offering obeisances to the flag?
Tamala Krsna: Born as a cockroach in that country.
Prabhupada: And then by flit(?) he will be killed. "No, no, sir, I am your countryman, I am countryman. I belong to the same nation." "Who cares for you, flies, cockroaches? Kill them. American flies, who cares for you?" "I was a staunch nationalist. Now I have become fly. Don't kill me." "Who cares for you?" Will they excuse American flies, American cockroaches? But dehantara-prapti. That you cannot avoid. Then where is your nationalism? Nation means one who has taken birth in that land. The cockroach, the flies, the animals, they also born in that land, but who cares for them? Dehantara-prapti. So you are great nationalist. But the body is changed. How can you save yourself, not become a cockroach? Because the body is changing. That is in other's hand, Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. By superior supervision. It is not your choice. Here is dehantara-prapti. "Make me president body." "No, no, that is not your choice. You have to accept what I will give you. It will be just by your work, infection of the modes of nature." Daiva-netrena. This is a great science. They do not know it. Instead of understanding their life fictitious, they are asking whether Krsna is real or fictitious. This is going on. Krsna is fictitious, and on fictitious Krsna the big, big acaryas, they have written so many books. Just see their intelligence. He's a big lawyer. That is your intelligence. Big, big acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, such stalwarts. Their notes, apprising notes, how they have studied. And they have wasted their time on some fictitious? Caitanya Mahaprabhu has spoiled His life after a fictitious? How rascaldom.
Tamala Krsna: And you are spoiling your life, according to them. Then why is he coming here to see you?
Prabhupada: Anyways, these rascals, we have to deal with these rascals. Whatever little service they can give us. Even Gandhi was of opinion that "There was no Krsna, there was no battle of Kuruksetra. It is imagination."
Tamala Krsna: "Battlefield of the mind," he said.
Prabhupada: Everyone takes Bhagavad-gita as fictitious, and you can interpret it in any way you like. That is the... This Swami Cinmayananda is also that class. He is a sadhu.
Giriraja: The lawyer asked me had I read the books of Swami Cinmayananda.
Prabhupada: What did you reply?
Giriraja: Well, I said that we knew what his philosophy was, and that we were not impressed by it.
Tamala Krsna: He defines Krsna as the dark unknowing within. That's his definition of Krsna, Swami Cinmayananda.
Prabhupada: How you explain the unknown if you do not know? How do you speak "unknown"? You know or not?
Tamala Krsna: He doesn't define Krsna. I mean he doesn't speak about Krsna.
Prabhupada: No, anyone. If unknown, then how do you say unknown? You know. You know Him as unknown.
Tamala Krsna: Contradiction.
Prabhupada: Mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. This picture is very nice.
Tamala Krsna: Where should it be hung?
Prabhupada: Hung?
Tamala Krsna: It would be nice if it could be hung where you can see it easily.
Prabhupada: Just by the side, it will be placed?
Tamala Krsna: I don't think it would fit there. It could be hung, hung over here.
Upendra: When you take prasadam.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Tamala Krsna: Very dancing form.
Prabhupada: Syamasundara. Tribhanga-murari.
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam...
[Bs. 5.38]
So you have brought some films?
Yadubara: Yes, I brought two of these cassette films of the new film, and one 16 millimeter, three films in all. And then one "Hare Krsna People" and also "Spiritual Frontier."
Prabhupada: So we can see them. Jaya.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. (end)

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