Room Conversation

April 22, 1977, Bombay
Tamala Krsna: But there's a lot of trouble, martial law in three cities.
Prabhupada: Now they are fighting. [break] ...they have ruined.
Tamala Krsna: Pakistan?
Prabhupada: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... [break] ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.
Tamala Krsna: It's not considered a very high birth.
Prabhupada: Condemned, especially the Indian Muhammadans. I had one friend. He is of Afghan... (background noise) What is the trouble?
Tamala Krsna: Just check...
Prabhupada: So he was coming daily to see me in my pharmacy. We talked sometimes little intimately, friendly, with his son. So one day we were talking. Dr. Jiva also was attending. So one Muhammadan woman... They're very dirty. So she was passing to go to see doctor, and that... His name was Ser Khan. He belonged to the royal family of Afghanistan. So he was doing like this. So I said, "You hate Muhammadans? She is Muhammadan woman." "Oh, we don't accept Muhammadan. They are (indistinct)." That means Indian Muhammadans are not even accepted by the Muhammadans in other countries.
Tamala Krsna: He was a Muhammadan.
Prabhupada: He was Muhammadan, Afghanistan, very royal family.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: So he was doing... "Well, she is Muhammadan woman. You hate?" "Oh! They are not Muhammadans. We don't accept Muhammadan." These are my personal experience. They do not accept. Turkey also refused. When there were wars the, some of the Muhammadan leaders, Muhammad Ali, they wanted to present himself. He refused to accept. He said, "Go! You are not to see your business." His name was... He was very famous man. So they want to mix with the other Muhammadan countries like Afghanistan, Turkey... [break] They do not like. And actually it is a fact. Indian Muhammadans means all low-class Hindus, they converted into. Christian also.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: And no brahmanas were converted.
Prabhupada: They did not accept. Therefore we see there is indirect indifference with our temple. Did you mark it? The high-class Hindus, they do not very much appreciate our...
Tamala Krsna: Which one?
Prabhupada: Our temples.
Tamala Krsna: Our temples?
Prabhupada: Because it is managed by the Americans. Yes.
Tamala Krsna: In all of our temples here? All of our temples here. Yeah, actually people like the Samanis, they don't... They come to see you, but they don't... Even the Deity may be superbeautiful, superexcellent, but they won't go near Him.
Prabhupada: Therefore I wanted these harijana. Harijana.
Tamala Krsna: 'Cause they don't distinguish like that.
Prabhupada: No. They are searching after some guide.
Tamala Krsna: I've notice in Bengal, the aristocratic Bengalis, they come to our temple.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: I mean, Bengalis, they're more intelligent.
Prabhupada: They are educated.
Tamala Krsna: They're not smarta, not like that.
Prabhupada: And these other countries, they are smarta.
Tamala Krsna: South, South Indian...
Prabhupada: Yes, South...
Tamala Krsna: The Bengalis, they really appreciate the devotion. They see how nice and they come. Never mind who is doing it.
Prabhupada: No, in Vrndavana also.
Tamala Krsna: Same. They appreciate. Or they don't.
Prabhupada: No, not appreciate.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, they're a little standoffish.
Prabhupada: They're envious.
Tamala Krsna: You tried to placate them by inviting all those brahmanas for the installation ceremony.
Prabhupada: Now I am not...
Tamala Krsna: But still, they were not placated.
Prabhupada: Now we do not care for them. Our temple is now crowded. That is in beginning just to show that we are going through real ritualistic... I spent ten thousand rupees on that performance just to make a show.
Tamala Krsna: They charged ten thousand rupees?
Prabhupada: Yes. What can I do?
Tamala Krsna: It was a good show.
Prabhupada: If I do with our men, then it will not be recognized as temple.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, oh, yeah, that's a fact. No, it was properly done.
Prabhupada: "Any or other, take. Finish that business." Now I don't want. I don't care for them. Our temple is always crowded. My achievement is there. In the beginning I spent. Now every, all over India, they are praising me.
Tamala Krsna: "Architect of the Bhagavad-gita boom." That's how they praised you in the newspaper yesterday.
Prabhupada: That's a fact.
Tamala Krsna: I was amazed to see how much you translated last night. You translated more last night than in months, almost two hundred digits. I think it was 190. I think eating these pakoras at night is giving you strength.
Prabhupada: No, not that. Something must be eaten. I was feeling weakness in the evening. But what can I eat? I have no taste for fruits. Milk also, not very much taste I have got. Naturally I won't eat now(?).
Tamala Krsna: You have a taste for nim?
Prabhupada: That is compulsory. Whatever little benefit is there in the leaf of nim... Still, I have got taste for nim begun(?). You like that? I think I shall take little, little milk.
Tamala Krsna: Milk.
Prabhupada: Hm. That will give strength. Milk produce strength. And it is suitable for everyone: children, diseased, invalid, old men. It is such a nice food. Everyone in any condition can get some benefit.
Tamala Krsna: And we're getting fairly good milk now.
Prabhupada: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, we were reading today how the wife of Ravana, when she saw her husband, she was addressing him as "The king of the asuras, how you have given everyone trouble. And now surely your body will be eaten by vultures and you'll go to hell." So Nava-yogendra Maharaja was commenting that now..., at that time there was only one Ravana; now the whole world is filled with Ravanas, and they're all going to go to suffer the same fate. Of course, we may be able to give them the opportunity of this movement, reading your books. That may be their only chance.
Prabhupada: There is no doubt about it. Therefore big, big men, scholars, they are so appreciating: "The scholarship and devotion." Yes. They have marked this.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, both things are marked...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: ...combination.
Prabhupada: That is... Rarely they found. Therefore they appreciate. One may comment on scholarship. That is jnana. And devotion without scholarship-sentiment. Just see. They're both combined. Perfect knowledge. That is wanted. That is my Guru Maharaja's... He used to say, "Philosophy without religion is dry speculation, and religion without philosophy is sentiment."
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, you wrote this in your purport in Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: That should be confirmed(?). Caitanyera dayara katha karaha vicara. Don't accept it blindly. We have not accepted Caitanya cult blindly. This is practical. The purpose was to separate from India to become happy. Where is the happiness?
Tamala Krsna: Civil strife.
Prabhupada: And that is real happiness?
Prabhupada: Not they are. And this was the British plan: "So they are driving away? All right, make such arrangement. They'll perpetually remain unhappy."
Tamala Krsna: They knew they were losing, so they thought, "Let everyone lose along with us. No one shall..."
Prabhupada: That is natural. "If you become my enemy, I shall be your enemy." That is everywhere. Material world means that.
Tamala Krsna: I was shocked to see that the mangoes... Did you see the price that they're being sold for? They are now selling in the market here for one hundred rupees a dozen.
Prabhupada: (in disbelief) Hm?!
Tamala Krsna: One hundred rupees a dozen they are being sold for, and they are being sent to the Gulf states, to the Arabs, and the Arabs are paying up to five hundred rupees a dozen for Alphonso mangoes. Fifty rupees per mango they are willing to pay. So the newspaper commented that "It may be that the poor people will not eat mango this year." Mangoes are so costly, over double the cost of last year.
Prabhupada: Fifty rupees, twenty-five rupees per mangowho will pay?
Tamala Krsna: Nobody. Of course, here in India they won't be so costly. The most costly ones are selling for one hundred rupees a dozen, so about eight rupees apiece. But then you can get lesser quality, and once the season is more in, then it will be available. But they are becoming increasingly costly. But isn't that an unheard of price? In your childhood I don't think they were that costly.
Prabhupada: One rupee, dozen.
Tamala Krsna: Phew! Good ones?
Prabhupada: And later on, '53 or so, we saw, one rupee, half a dozen.
Tamala Krsna: Very cheap.
Prabhupada: So now they are getting fifty rupees. Time will come: even if you pay five thousand rupees, you won't get one mango. That is coming.
Tamala Krsna: They won't be around anywhere.
Prabhupada: That is stated in the Bhagavata. Even you pay five thousand rupees, you won't get. And if you get, it is simply the seed; no pulp.
Tamala Krsna: Pit and skin. That means it will be very difficult to execute patram puspam phalam toyam [Bg. 9.26]. There won't be those things.
Prabhupada: Last problem(?). Better to go back home as soon as possible. One life, do all penances, all austerities. Simply stick to the lotus feet of Krsna, and the business is finished.
Tamala Krsna: We're sticking to your lotus feet, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Who knows the secret? It is in the Bhagavata.
Tamala Krsna: Today I was reading a very beautiful section of Caitanya-caritamrta that Krsna comes in the form of the spiritual master. And then that...
Prabhupada: Spiritual master is a revelation of Krsna.
Prabhupada: Guru-krsna.
Tamala Krsna: It was mentioning how the initiator spiritual master is the representative of Sri-Sri-Madana-mohana, and the instructing spiritual master is a representative of Sri-Govindadeva. Very nice explanation you gave in the purport.
Prabhupada: As far as possible, I have tried to present. In one place I have criticized my Godbrothers.
Tamala Krsna: Last night?
Prabhupada: No, no, in Caitanya-caritamrta.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah, at the end in one line. We were... When we read that, it was actually relishable, very personal.
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja is little...
Tamala Krsna: He read it?
Prabhupada: I think so.
Tamala Krsna: Did he make any comment?
Prabhupada: He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.
Tamala Krsna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja belonged to the Bagh Bazaar party. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, "It is better that he is aloof from them."
Tamala Krsna: He could understand that his disciples were not...
Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. At the last stage he was disgusted.
Tamala Krsna: But that... That doesn't mean that your disciples should think also, "I will remain aloof just as our Prabhupada..."
Prabhupada: No, that I have not said. Therefore I used so strong word on the, our Surabhi's action. This was made independently. He has written. He has given photograph. That is not good.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I took that as a good instruction to all of us, your rebuking.
Prabhupada: I told him that "You cannot do so independent. You are doing nice, but not to do in the... You admit." People complained against Hamsaduta. Did you know that?
Tamala Krsna: I'm not sure of the particular incidences, but I've heard general...
Prabhupada: In Germany. In Germany.
Tamala Krsna: The devotees there.
Prabhupada: So many complaints.
Tamala Krsna: Therefore change is good.
Prabhupada: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, that kind of complaint was there.
Prabhupada: Did you know that?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I heard that, yeah.
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, "Now you become acarya. You become authorized." I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
Tamala Krsna: The process of purification must be there.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. Amara ajnaya guru hana [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. "You become guru." (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower...
Tamala Krsna: Not rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: Then you'll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and "guru." What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff... My Guru Maharaja used to say, "Joint mess," a place for eating and sleeping. Amar amar ara takana (?)(Bengali): "Joint mess." He said this.
Tamala Krsna: That word "mess," by that word he meant eating, messing, eating?
Prabhupada: Yes. Messing, there is a system. Some clerks, they make a small cooperative hotel. In India there are many.
Tamala Krsna: That I see in South India sometimes... In places like hotels I see.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Men who work, they all come...
Prabhupada: Cooperative effort.
Tamala Krsna: So he called that a joint mess, and he said that some of the disciples were doing that.
Prabhupada: He knew that. What is the use? Tirtha Maharaja's defense was that. "These people..." They were fighting with Tirtha Maharaja in the court that "Tirtha Maharaja was not good." Tirtha Maharaja's only defense was "All right, you want to combine to make a guru. All right, why don't you combine yourself for preaching?"
Tamala Krsna: What was his defense?
Prabhupada: That "You want to work jointly, so why you do not work jointly? You are jointly working to harass me. Why not preach jointly?"
Tamala Krsna: What was their reply?
Prabhupada: No reply.
Tamala Krsna: So it was a good defense.
Prabhupada: Yes. "You have joined together to defeat me. Why don't you preach jointly? What do you want? That I shall also join and we shall jointly preach. Do this. You are divided amongst yourselves, and you have joined together to defeat me." Sridhara Maharaja is the leader.
Tamala Krsna: Of that group.
Prabhupada: Madhava Maharaja also
Prabhupada: For the last forty years they're fighting in the courts. They indirectly wanted me also to join them. "He has got money. If he joins, then our monetary, financial help will be there." That is their...
Tamala Krsna: Sridhara Maharaja. I remember a letter they wrote you in Los Angeles in 1969. You replied them, "Yes, I will join, but since I have preached in eleven-twelfths of the world, eleven of my men will be representatives, and you can put one."
Prabhupada: (laughing) Yes. Yes, according to the area, my representatives are there.
Tamala Krsna: Now there should be all twelve. (Prabhupada laughs)
Prabhupada: Another Godbrother, he asked me fifty thousand rupees to maintain his temple.
Tamala Krsna: How much?
Prabhupada: Fifty thousand. So I said, "Yes, I can give you fifty thousand, but this is mleccha money. You'll be polluted. Best thing is that give. We can maintain. I'll immediately deposit fifty thousand." He has stopped. (laughs) "We are mlecchas. I am the leader of the mlecchas, so my money will pollute you. But if you are feeling difficulty, you hand over the temple to us, and on condition I immediately deposit fifty thousand in the name of the temple."
Tamala Krsna: Then he was not interested. Suddenly his problems were solved. He didn't take the money.
Prabhupada: Money is not mleccha. But when we offer to eat something, we are mleccha.
Tamala Krsna: No one will take... A lot of the men, people, will not take prasadam at our temples for the same reason.
Prabhupada: Now they are taking. And some of them are not.
Tamala Krsna: Some swelling in the stomach?
Prabhupada: Hm? No, I am feeling all right.
Tamala Krsna: It's getting to be time for your massage, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Time now.
Prabhupada: Stick to our principle, and see our GBC is very alert. Then everything will go on, even I am not present. Do that. That is my request. Whatever little I have taught you, follow that, and nobody will be aggrieved. No maya will touch you. Now Krsna has given us, and there will be no scarcity of money. You print book and sell. So everything is there. We have got good shelter all over the world. We have got income. You stick to our principles, follow the... Even if I die suddenly, you'll be able to manage. That's all. That I want. Manage nicely and let the movement go forward. Now arrange. Don't go backward. Be careful. Apani acari prabhu jiveri siksaya. Some eau de cologne smell? Eau de cologne?
Tamala Krsna: What kind of smell?
Prabhupada: Eau de cologne.
Tamala Krsna: Eau de cologne?
Prabhupada: I have got it, but I think it is... He has used.
Tamala Krsna: He is using. Yeah, I don't use... Sannyasi...
Prabhupada: No, eau de cologne is good.
Tamala Krsna: He may be using.
Prabhupada: Yes. In the Western countries, they use, everyone.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, yeah. So Gargamuni did pretty well with those standing orders. No sooner... He says that actually you knew that it was going to happen, so you wanted him to get some glory, so you arranged like that.
Prabhupada: Everyone engaged in some particular department, he must improve and... Then things will go on nice. Upendra is very neat.
Tamala Krsna: He is.
Prabhupada: If required, he can cook also. He knows how. I gave... In the beginning he was cooking. He was from very beginning. Good or bad, he was doing. Gaurasundara and his wife, they were our secretaries, and he was cooking in the San Francisco.
Tamala Krsna: I remember that. Yeah, he ever has to cook, I can give massage if necessary.
Prabhupada: (indistinct) was working as postman. (end)

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/apr/bombay/april/22/1977

If you Love Me Distribute My Books -- Srila Prabhupada