Prabhupada: ...always studying, for the last ten years. It is my conclusion that originally everything Indian, that is very, very high gradefor human society, for personal. That is actual human civilization. Everything, hygienic principles, Vedic knowledge, moral knowledge, everything perfect.

Tamala Krsna: I'm going to tell them to... It's good to take rest now.

Prabhupada: Hm. Otherwise it will increase. In your sickness, if you go on working, it will increase. Better take rest.

Devotee: Ginger, and keep warm.

Tamala Krsna: Last night you were translating a little bit.

Prabhupada: I began, but...

Tamala Krsna: You stopped.

Prabhupada: No, stopped not for my incapability, but I stopped it feeling sleepy.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I mean you are taking so little prasadam that it is not to be expected that you can do very much physical activity. But I can see one thing is that you are very now fully recovered and alert.

Prabhupada: I think so.

Tamala Krsna: I think simply it is just weakness now. Due to not, you know, it is like a fast. You've been maintaining a fast now for nearly two months.

Prabhupada: Yes. I like that. If there is no appetite, what is the use of forcibly eating? When appetite will come, we shall eat. Natural. Nature's...

Tamala Krsna: So we are not at a loss, because we can chant Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. I am chanting. If I am not writing I am chanting. Of course, sometimes irregularity. What can be done with this physical impediment? Otherwise, I'll either chant or read books or write books.

Tamala Krsna: One thing. There has to be more... Yesterday you were questioning if we had an extra quantity of that, er, to fill up your container you have.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Tamala Krsna: There's a container you have. You asked me if we could take the other container of one of the things that you use... Oh, tooth powder.

Prabhupada: Ah, yes, that.

Tamala Krsna: Do you know where it is? It's in...

Bhavananda: It hasn't been filled up?

Prabhupada: It is filled up, yes.

Bhavananda: It's filled up.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, okay.

Prabhupada: That Gopinatha has done.

Tamala Krsna: Okay. Another thing I see on account of the fast. One of the reasons perhaps... One of the advantages of fasting is that the swelling is... Fasting cures diseases.

Prabhupada: Diet treatment is very good.

Tamala Krsna: That's a difficult treatment for the Westerners. Because they have no self-...

Prabhupada: They want to be cured immediately. Go to the doctor. "Give me injection, give me tablet, cure me immediately." That is the Western treatment. Immediately stop it. Here also. A man, a worker, he's earning twenty rupees a day, and the doctors also take advantage of this rational. "You want to be treated quickly or let...?" And naturally he will say "Quickly." "Then you have to take injection." Injection means each injection at least five rupees. He may inject water.

Tamala Krsna: They do that sometimes.

Prabhupada: They do that. This is going on. They do actually, I know. Unnecessarily, little distilled water, and take from him five rupees. If he gives him mixture, he cannot charge from him. But these innocent persons, they have earned. "You want to be treated very quickly or slowly?" He says that "I am earning twenty rupees per day. If required, I will give you so much money. And give me quickly." Everything cheating and... I know. I was in the medical line. Dr. Bose admitted. He was talking with me very freely because I was just like his son. "My dear boy, I sometimes cheat. We are most sinful." He said like that. "As soon as we find some rich person, unnecessarily we harass."

Tamala Krsna: That's the business of the doctors and the lawyers.

Prabhupada: Right.

Tamala Krsna: How to draw on the condition longer and longer to make more money.

Prabhupada: And if the client is rich, draw.

Tamala Krsna: I have noticed that in the West now they have..., they know that there are certain cures for serious illnesses, and they have outlawed these cures, because they will lose so much money.

Prabhupada: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Krsna consciousness. Then you will be happy.

Tamala Krsna: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Krsna consciousness. Bhogaisvarya-prasaktanam.

Prabhupada: Tayapahrta-cetasam [Bg. 2.44]. Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakara. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.

Tamala Krsna: Any fool.

Prabhupada: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings, and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all, finished.

Tamala Krsna: "And the king will protect us."

Prabhupada: That's all.

Tamala Krsna: "We don't care which one." That was a nice system.

Prabhupada: Very nice system.

Tamala Krsna: Unnecessarily people were not being killed.

Prabhupada: And one fourth, what you have produced, give one fourth to the king. "You come here. See, what I have produced. You take one fourth."

Tamala Krsna: Even in Europe that system was there.

Prabhupada: Yes, that was the world system.

Tamala Krsna: And they say that that is backwards.

Prabhupada: Very nice.

Tamala Krsna: When I was studying world history in college, when I read this system, they call it feudal, feudal system, I was very peaceful in my mind. I was very interested how nice everything, orderly... I was impressed with the order. Of course, I did not understand Krsna consciousness, but I could see it was much nicer. This is chaos, the present-day system.

Prabhupada: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kuruksetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?

Tamala Krsna: Nowadays they drop one atom bomb, a whole half the country, half the people destroyed.

Prabhupada: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear her, and she is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.

Tamala Krsna: Do you think that she will again become the prime...

Prabhupada: Any moment she can become. It is a question of maneuvering.

Tamala Krsna: So there is actually a possibility. Very dangerous.

Prabhupada: Yes. People are rascals. If induce them, "Vote," they will vote. They have no choice actually, who is good or bad. Therefore it is said, sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah [SB 2.3.19]. Some rascal, fools, animals, they are voting, "Indira is very good." Or "Desai is very good." So what is the value of? What they are? They are animals. You train the animals: "Dance like this," he will dance.

Tamala Krsna: Right. Even a monkey can be made to applaud.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. So their vote, their adoration, what is the value? By whose adoration you have become big? Some monkeys and some fools, some rascals, some dogs. And formerly it was the king should be approved by saintly brahmanas.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. And when the brahmanas did not approve, they had the power of brahma-tejah. Just like with Vena. Even in our own society, if someone is not doing nicely, then the others may, they come together and they say, "This person is not keeping standard." It is not that because I have power or something, one can maintain his position.

Prabhupada: Whole thing is spoiled, vitiated. And ultimately this human form of life, it is a chance given by nature. Tatha dehantara, you become a dog, next. Finished. And you wait millions of years again to come, take the human form. What can I do? These are nature's law. And they are also prepared. "Oh, what is the wrong there, if I become dog?" This civilization. Just imagine how much spoiled it is.

Tamala Krsna: If that's a fact, then let them become a dog now.

Prabhupada: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante [Bg. 8.6]. A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.

Tamala Krsna: This vision no one else has except... I mean no one else has it, Srila Prabhupada except for you. It is there in the sastra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaisnava acaryas or something in India, but they are not... By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.

Prabhupada: No, they realized. They have no opportunity. They wanted to preach.

Tamala Krsna: If they wanted to, wouldn't Krsna have given them the opportunity?

Prabhupada: Oh, I shall not doubt. They wrote comment.

Tamala Krsna: I didn't mean in our line. I mean... Their writing is as good as preaching. I meant to say just like now there is this sampradaya and that sampradaya...

Prabhupada: Ah, these are... Without this sampradaya, evam parampara, kick out on their face. All rogues and thieves.

Tamala Krsna: These other...

Prabhupada: I don't care for them. Immediately kick out. That is, sampradaya vihina ye mantras te vi(pha)lah matah. If he is not coming by this parampara system, whatever he says, all nonsense.

Tamala Krsna: What about those who are coming in these other sampradayas, like Ramanuja sampradaya...

Prabhupada: They are bona fide if they are actually following.

Tamala Krsna: I was referring to them, that they are not preaching very widely.

Prabhupada: Then they are useless.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Because if they wanted to, Krsna would have facilitated it.

Prabhupada: Ramanuja preached. All the acaryas preached.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, either in writing or by traveling and speaking. You have done both, though.

Prabhupada: That is the duty of acarya. Otherwise he is not... Not that three dozen acaryas in Mayapura. Each one has a temple and a few dozen... Not few dozenone dozen disciples. Bring some rice and eat. They are acarya. That day I said that, khai laya khasi bhaja,(?) then everybody became angry. Collecting some money, taking to the holy place, collecting fifty rupees and keeping twenty rupees and spending thirty rupees. This is... In this way they are making livelihood, acaryas. They say, "Whatever is in our capacity, we are doing." The capacity means when they are speaking that the cockroach is as good a bird as the Garuda. Cockroach is also a bird and Garuda is also a bird.

Tamala Krsna: Quite a difference, though.

Prabhupada: How the cockroach can say "I am also as good as Garuda"?

Tamala Krsna: That is called insanity.

Prabhupada: (laughs) So they want to say like that.

Tamala Krsna: Garuda eats timingila fish as his diet.

Prabhupada: No, he can eat. He flies from one planet to another. Just like one bird flies, he starts from one tree and takes rest another. The Garuda bird, they do that. They start from one planet and take rest in another planet. This is their flying. And while flying, they lay down eggs, and the eggs, while falling down, become birds. By the heat.

Tamala Krsna: That's very scientific. Because normally the bird has to sit on the egg for producing heat to hatch the egg.

Prabhupada: The heat is produced by the, what is called, motion.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, friction.

Prabhupada: Friction. And they become bird.

Tamala Krsna: And their food?

Prabhupada: Food, go to one planet.

Tamala Krsna: They eat big quantities.

Prabhupada: Yes. Big quantities mean according to... The ant is eating its quantity; elephant is eating.

Tamala Krsna: And Garuda eats...

Prabhupada: Whatever eating, he can eat. God has supplied.

Tamala Krsna: That teaching I also remember from the Bible. There's a statement that "Everyone is being supplied, so don't you think that God will also supply for you?" That's there in the Bible, I think, also. But the Christians, so-called, they don't heed it.

Prabhupada: And therefore we challenge them, "Who is a Christian?" It is not a single one.

Tamala Krsna: Actually, if one studies the life of Jesus, we live more like that than any so-called Christian.

Prabhupada: So we have got very nice diamond. Try to sell. But if there is a purchaser, he will purchase. Otherwise not. It is our duty to canvas. But we cannot sell iron instead of diamond.

Tamala Krsna: I was just wondering about this, that we may be traveling around, and even here Your Divine Grace is not so fit for going to all of the ceremonies. Maybe you would like it if we were to keep a little Deity here.

Prabhupada: Where?

Tamala Krsna: In your apartment.

Prabhupada: No, no.

Tamala Krsna: You don't need...

Prabhupada: Hm. The Deity is there, fixed-up. That's all right. I was keeping Deity with me, but a constant change of this servant.

Tamala Krsna: That's not nice for the Deities.

Prabhupada: It is inconvenience.

Tamala Krsna: Especially now, anyway, if we do this tirtha traveling, then it will be difficult. That will be very nice. I think that I can start to make up an itinerary, that... There is a couple of devotees who have traveled a lot.

Prabhupada: Now you try to manage the whole world organization and all GBC men. Suppose I am not there. Manage very nicely. Independently. Not to create havoc. But really to manage. I am still present; I will give you direction. Don't spoil it. We are in very good, prestigious position. That is sure. Don't spoil it. So much hard labor. I started with very humble condition. Now it has come to this, such exalted position. You don't spoil it. That is my request. Increase. That will depend on your character, behavior, preaching. Everyone knows. Everyone is astonished. Without any help, I started. Only asset was sincere... Everyone knows it. Otherwise how it is possible?

Tamala Krsna: It is our duty as your disciples to preserve everything that you've done. (someone brings in some prasadamsome Hindi conversation)

Prabhupada: Nim is good.

Tamala Krsna: Very cleansing, Srila Prabhupada. Fresh nim, it must be.

Prabhupada: Nim you cannot take in any other way.

Tamala Krsna: I don't follow.

Prabhupada: Nim, you cannot take it in other way.

Tamala Krsna: One way I have seen it is in sukta.

Prabhupada: Hm. By cooking?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Hm. Yes. That is possible.

Tamala Krsna: It's really Krsna's mercy how such a bitter thing is yet palatable. (pause)

Prabhupada: Take one.

Tamala Krsna: Thank you very much. (end)