Prabhupada: ...difference between our activities and general people's activities.

Devotee (1): The result is different.

Hari-sauri: Our activities are liberating, and their activities are entangling.

Devotee (2): The difference in our activities is that because we see everything as Krsna's energy, we feel the material world is never disturbing to us. Whereas for the karmis, the material world is always very disturbing for them.

Prabhupada: Yes. But they want that disturbance. He's trying to be happy, but they do not know what is eternal happiness. We're also trying for happiness, but our aim is eternal happiness.

Devotee (3): They think that eternal happiness means the same happiness that we experience in the material world, but it lasts forever, because they cannot conceive of a different quality of blissfulness.

Prabhupada: This is difference. One is eternal; one is temporary and miserable. Although it is so-called happiness, it is temporary. At any moment it is finished. Actually there is no happiness. Still, even they consider this is happiness, that is temporary. You cannot enjoy. At any moment you'll be finished. Just like the surfers, they're enjoying happiness. At any moment they can be finished.

Devotee (3): Danger also.

Prabhupada: Yes. Any moment.

Devotee (3): So there's anxiety in all of the happiness in this world.

Prabhupada: Yes. (Sanskrit) asad grahat. Because they have accepted something which is not happiness, temporary, they're always full of anxiety. This is the nature. The bird flying, anxiety "Oh, so many men are coming." He's not in peace. He was eating something; as soon as he sees so many.... "Oh, away," flying. Anxiety. (Sanskrit) asad grahat. Asat. Asat means temporary. The Vedic injunction is asato ma sad gamaya: don't stay in asat. Go to the sat, which is permanent. Asato ma sad gamaya (indistinct) jyotir gamaya (indistinct). Don't remain in darkness, go to the light. (inaudible) Ordinarily they want danger (inaudible). The same Vedic.... Asato ma jyotir gamaya.

Devotee (2): [break] ...that they are satisfied with the knowledge that it's given in most religious books, because they say that...

Prabhupada: Where is religious book?

Devotee (2): Bible.

Prabhupada: All speculation. Claims only. Repeatedly religion means orders of God. If you do not know who is God.... If you do not know what is government, then what is government law?

Devotee (2): The world religions are not presented very scientifically.

Prabhupada: Many religions. God is one. Religion is one. If you do not know God, then you do not know religion.

Devotee (3): [break] ...Srila Prabhupada, that for some reason or another, in the Old Testament, God would have said that, because of the circumstances you live in, you should eat cows. This is what we find in the Bible.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee (3): Is it possible that somehow or another at that particular time and place, God would have said "Eat cows"? Because in Bhagavad-gita Krsna clearly says go-raksya, cow protection. And that instruction would also be eternal.

Prabhupada: Go-raksya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-raksya. Krsna does not say that don't eat meat. It is not really said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tamasika, pramadya (indistinct). But He's speaking of go-raksya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the sudras, and the less than sudras, they eat. But for them there's lower animals, not cow.

Devotee (3): These people, they think that if someone is inspired by God, then their word is the word of God. Therefore they can write all kinds of things, and they put the label on it that "This was spoken by God through me."

Prabhupada: Hearing directly from Him. Which one is better? Directly hearing from Him, or by some inspiration?

Devotee (2): Hearing directly, naturally.

Prabhupada: Yes. It is true. By sentiment you can say "I'm inspired." But hear directly then there is no question.

Devotee (3): People sometimes ask, "If Bhagavad-gita was spoken by Krsna and it was recorded by Vyasadeva in the Mahabharata, was Vyasadeva actually present there on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, or did he see it by revelation?"

Prabhupada: No. Here, just like something's happening ten thousand miles away. You can record it by modern machine.

Devotee (3): :[break] ...mercy he was able to...

Prabhupada: Three millions miles, sun is, eh?

Hari-sauri: :That's what they say.

Prabhupada: So from so far distant place the heat is coming, and there is no brain behind it?

Devotee (4): :It takes five minutes for the sunlight to reach us, and light travels at, what, 193,000 miles a second? I don't know. Whatever it is.

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, such a wonderful things is there, and there is no brain behind it? Is it very reasonable proposal? It has come automatically. There is a chunk. Childish.

Devotee (1): :Because it's too much beyond their conception, they say that it's simply imagination.

Prabhupada: :Ha?

Devotee: :They say that simply because it's too much beyond their conception...

Prabhupada: It's a fact. You see the heat and light. It is not the imagination. So who arranged so much heat and light? That is the question. It is not imagination. We have to manufacture a small bolt. It requires a big, big factory's brain. And this has come by chunk? Nonsense. And you have to accept it? These crazy fellows propose and we have to accept.

Devotee (2): [break] ...they say that simply the universe always was, and that it always will be.

Prabhupada: Whatever is (unclear) nature, there is brain behind. That is the proposal. Why there is, that doesn't matter. But it will continue. World is and will continue. That's a fact. But who made it? That is the question.

Devotee (3): :Karandhara and I were at a scientists' meeting, and he used that argument with the scientists. He said "The universe always has been." So Karandhara used your argument that "Yes, the sun has been there, and the sun rays are there along with it. Still, the sun is the source of the sun rays." The scientists could not answer. And everybody in the crowd...

Prabhupada: What they will answer? Simply speculator, misleading (unclear).

Devotee (1): Well the next proposition is that if God is there, then let Him stay there, and we are here, let us stay here. Why do we have to be concerned with Him?

Prabhupada: But you (unclear) you rascal, you'll die. If there is no sun, you'll die. Therefore you must be obliged, feeling every moment that God is giving sun, you're living. God is so kind that you're given sun so that you can live. So you must be obliged to God. (Sanskrit) bhutani, bhutani jayanti. So samsanti, samklesa (indistinct) santi.(?) You are living on mercy of God. You're so ungrateful. You're so rascal, you do not give Him thanks. Even the sun. In this world tax collector comes. If you say "Why shall I give you tax? It is already there. It was before my coming. How I was there. And still there. Why you're asking me tax?" Can you say like that? "Oh it was already there." There or there, if you enjoy, you must pay tax.

Devotee (3): That is why they're having so many revolutions, because they do not like to be under the control of the government, they figure that "Now we can have can have so many revolutions."

Prabhupada: :What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhoti was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.

Devotee (2): :[break] ...very much burdened, because they have some obligation to God. So therefore now they want to.... They consider it an obligation.

Prabhupada: :Obligation we must follow. That I have already said, that you have obligation to the state, you must pay tax. Otherwise you are criminal. So obligation must be there. If somebody is giving you protection, you must be obliged. If you don't feel obliged, then you'll be punished.

Hari-sauri: Gratitude is a sign of intelligence.

Prabhupada: Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. In Bhagavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhagavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. [break] ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, (Sanskrit). [break] ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it the whole stack, everything. "Oh, I've got it free. Let me take it." But the birds, they're under natural law. They know, "Ah, I have finished. I have got my belly filled up. I don't require any more." So God has given everything sufficiently. If every man takes whatever he wants absolutely, then there is no difficulty. That is your complication. But why there should be fight? Father's property of every son. He take as much as he requires. Accept father, his property, and take as much as you require. Don't take more. That is real communism. So where is that communism? Who has it? The material nature, the mother, and God is the father. And we are all children. That's all. Plain truth. [break] ...accept this philosophy?

Devotee (2): :The sane people, the sane persons, they will accept.

Prabhupada: :That means there is no saintly person, all rogues. [break] ...objection. You have to accept some father; otherwise how you can exist?

Devotee (1): The objection is that man wants to be completely free.

Prabhupada: He cannot be free.

Hari-sauri: Well, like Freud said, that a child may be under the protection of the father, but eventually the child has to grow up and go out and face the harsh, cruel world.

Prabhupada: That is his folly. If he remains obedient to the father, then he'll be happy.

Hari-sauri: :If you're already in a good situation, why create a bad one?

Prabhupada: :Yes. You be obedient and enjoy father's property. What is the wrong?

Hari-sauri: :They want to enjoy for themselves.

Prabhupada: :You cannot enjoy. What you cannot enjoy if there is no water, if there is no sunshine and there is no trees, there is no.... Then how you can enjoy? This is given by father. You are already enjoying the father's property. Why you are so much ungrateful?

Hari-sauri: :They haven't yet understood that the supply will be restricted if they don't behave.

Prabhupada: Yes. That will be. That.... They must wait for the day.

Devotee (5): :They call that the energy crisis.

Prabhupada: :Ha?

Devotee (5): :They call that the energy crisis.

Prabhupada: There will be crisis, and they will suffer. That's all. Call, whatever by name, there will be crisis. Nature is the mother, God is the father, and you are children. Everyone knows that

Hari-sauri: Yes, but they say that one's existence doesn't continue to depend on the father and mother. That at a certain stage one has to break away from the father and mother.

Prabhupada: :That continues. Beginning is father and mother taking care. So it continues you have the care of father. That is your fault. Therefore you suffer.

Hari-sauri: But practically speaking, we can see that at a certain stage the children have to take care of the father and mother, and not the other way around.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Grown-up children will take care, but the beginning is that without your parents' care you could not succeed. You would have died.

Hari-sauri: :This is Freud's argument, that at a certain stage he can leave that care and venture out for himself.

Prabhupada: He can leave the father's care. But how can he deny father?

Devotee (5): He denies the father. He denies the God the father. He says that's a wish fantasy for ......

Prabhupada: :Fantasy? Father is not fantasy. He is fact. You are grown up. You can leave the protection of the father. But how can you deny father? Then you are a rascal. It is not good to live independent of father. If the rich, opulent, very kind, very merciful, why shall I leave? A father is generally, even though he's personally a bad man, he's still, he's kind, merciful to the son. That he is, actually. A rogue, he lovesjust like Ajamila. He was a rogue, but he was taking care of the youngest child. This is nature, we study that even the father is a rogue, he's kind to his children. So practically he does all nonsense things, but giving protection to the family. So why should he give up the protection of father? When we say father, means all-kindness, all-mercifulness, all taking care. Immediately. In Bengali there is a word, putra davitra hoy, kumara(?) (indistinct) (indistinct) A son may be bad, but his mother is never bad. Son may be bad, mother.... Son may be bad, but the mother or father is never bad. The father may also be bad, but the mother is never bad.

Hari-sauri: Canakya Pandita says that when one instance...

Prabhupada: :No, no. There is exception with everything.

Hari-sauri: Oh.

Prabhupada: :The thing is, father and mother is always kind. That is natural. Extraordinarily, the mother may kill. That is another thing. Crazy. But if somebody's coming to kill his child, mother gives protection: "First of all kill me." [break] So artistic competition, subject matter was that a child is being killed before the mother, and the artist has to give expression of the face. So different artists gave expression of the face of the mother when the child is being killed before her. So one artist made a picture like this. (holding hands over his eyes) He got the first prize.

Hari-sauri: :She couldn't look.

Prabhupada: He got the first prize. You cannot express what mother's feeling is. Best thing is not to see.

Devotee (5): That's the ah..... There are many famous paintings of Christ on the cross and his mother before..., his mother standing before the cross.

Prabhupada: Yes. Mother cannot see it. Impossible. Better close the eyes. That is artist's realized. How a man can paint the expression of the mother, his child being killed. It is not possible. [break] Lesson by natures' study. Generally.... Generally means that is natural if one is under the protection of father and mother he must be happy. So why shall I give up the protection of father and mother? When my father is quite able, quite rich, and everything complete. Not that the poor father. [break] ...plainly declare, yoga-ksemam vahamy aham. Tesam nityabhiyuktanam yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Practically see. I came to your country without any of these things. You saw. When I came to your country first, I had no center, no.... But who has provided all these hundred temples, big, big palaces, temples? Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. To remain under the protection of Krsna you get so much facility. Why not be grateful to Krsna? (inaudible) ...and He has given me so many sons, so many houses, so many protection. Shall I not feel grateful? Is it not my duty? What is this nonsense? Krsna gives everything, and "No, no, I don't believe in God. God is dead." All rascals. Who denies God, he is the lowest rascal, immediately. Mudha. (end)