Room Conversation – May 20, 1976, Honolulu

O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes

[audio quality very poor throughout]

Prabhupada: ...at any moment [indistinct]. And what is the program to get out of it? That is your nonsense. Why you are proud of your so-called rascaldom? You are in danger also. What is the need of this? What is your insurance to save yourself from the danger?

Woman devotee (1): My insurance?

Prabhupada: Yes. Only insurance is Krsna consciousness. Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktaḥ pranasyati [Bg 9.31]. And nothing else. That is the only insurance. Ajamila, how he was saved? Simply by chanting Narayana. Narayana is only insurance to save you.

"He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes."

Prabhupada: Read it.

Devotee (2): Purport. "This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities-either by accident or intention-be a pure devotee? This question may be justly raised. The miscreants, are stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as it is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in the nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature. According to the Vedas, there is a certain regulation that if one falls down from his exalted position he has to undergo certain ritualistic processes to purify himself. But there is no such condition, because the purifying process is already there in the heart of the devotee, due to his remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead constantly. Therefore, the chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare should be continued without stoppage. This will protect a devotee from all accidental falldowns. He will thus remain perpetually free from all material contaminations."

Prabhupada: It is the only process to save yourself.

Devotee (3): You..., you told a story once about, there was one..., the devotee of Lord Caitanya, where he had never met Lord Caitanya, but he had some water sprinkled on him from a Muslim, Muhammadan, and that..., that astrologer told him to pour..., to drink lead, hot lead. And he said... I was...

Prabhupada: Buddhimanta Khan. [Subuddhi Raya]

Devotee (3): Yeah, Buddhimanta Khan.

[pause]

Devotee (3): You've also said in the past that there is no reality of this material world save for..., save Hare Krsna mantra, save...

Prabhupada: Yes, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, nama vina kichu nahika ara, caudda-bhuvana-majhe: There is nothing but the holy name within all the fourteen worlds. [Gitavali, Arunodaya-kirtana, Song 1, Stanza 4]

[pause]

Devotee (3): Krsna is our only insurance, and you are the..., you are the insurance representative.

Prabhupada: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Krsna speaks, they become enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, Christ was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are so ignorant. What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are [indistinct] And not only that, they have been given this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer we kill cow." Cow-killing, if there is any sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.

Devotee (2): They...

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee (2): They call it love.

Prabhupada: This is love? If you say, "Prabhupada, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you." Please don't love me! [laughter] Please get out. "I love you so much that I will kill you."

Devotee (2): They like to keep the..., Christ, the deity of Christ, they keep him nailed on the cross. They think that's very...

Prabhupada: That's why you see all the pictures in the church, he is carrying the cross, and he is pushing, pushed by the government men. How miserable condition they show.

Devotee (2): They don't have any...

Prabhupada: They do not have picture, just like we show Krsna is enjoying. Such rotten things. That is going on in religion. They love... They love means they want to see their lovable suffering so much, you see. What is their mentality? We want to see our lovable object is enjoyable. Young boy, Krsna enjoying with gopis, and nice night, playing flute, He's enjoying. That we want to see. And they want to see their lovable, is suffering. How they can see it, if there is love?

Siddha-svarūpa: If they loved him they would not be able to stand to look at that.

Prabhupada: That is going on in the name of religion. Therefore so many rogues, ruffians. Rascals. We say clearly. [indistinct] Simply rogues.

Siddha-svarūpa: That is the symptom then. If they loved him, they would not be able to see that and glorify that.

Prabhupada: That there was a subject matter, one picture. There was a competition that painter has to paint a picture and the picture is that in front of the mother the child being killed, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings of the mother. The best painters [indistinct] But one painter, he painted a picture, the mother is….. He got the first prize. He got it. So that is real idea. You may paint so many expressions, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. Therefore mother is…, that is first prize. It is correct. So how the mother can see it that the child is being killed? So it is not very easy to cover the mouth, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is the difference. All going on in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Simply. They do not know what is God, they do not know what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected.

Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ [SB 1.1.2]. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, disobeying the instruction of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? "Therefore I shall kill him." Is that religion? And they are showing how he was killed.

Siddha-svarūpa: One..., one man once said that to carry..., to glorify the cross is like they..., glorifying the revolver.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: If the husband is shot, then you take the gun and you worship the gun.

Prabhupada: That is... Yes. Very good example. Are you, are you going to some church there in Montreal?

Woman: Yes, Montreal.

Prabhupada: So, the same picture, that Jesus Christ is carrying his cross, and falling, falling. And they go enjoy.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: In Mayapur you have seen Yoga-pitha, Caitanya Mahaprabhu birthplace? Yoga-pitha?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu...

Devotee (2): Oh.

Prabhupada: ...and two sides, His two wives. Not that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is worshiped as a sannyasi.

Devotee (2): Grhastha.

Prabhupada: Grhastha. Grhastha with two wives, He must enjoy. This is our process. Why you will see Him as a sannyasi? Therefore Nityananda Prabhu broke His danḍa. They want..., do not want to see Him as sannyasi, sannyasi is renounced. Why He should be renounced? He is grhastha. "Oh, well." God must enjoy... [break]

Devotee (5): I'm sorry it took so long, but I had a little trouble getting through to them.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee (5): First their..., first the telephone service were not free, and then their line was busy for some time. So I just got through to them a few minutes ago, and he says it wasn't printed by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupada: Then?

Devotee (5): He said they did it independently, unauthorized from Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and he already chastised them for using the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust label, 'cause it has nothing to do with the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupada: Who is he?

Devotee (5): Uhhh, I'm not sure. Who sent it? Bahulasva? That devotee named Bahulasva?

Devotee (6): Bahulasva and Bhakti dasa.

Devotee (5): And who else?

Devotee (6): Jayananda. But Jayananda... I saw this printed in L.A. before I came here.

Devotee (5): Oh.

Devotee (6): So I don't think it's a San Francisco endeavor.

Devotee (7): The separations were all...

Devotee (5): No, he said it was done there.

Devotee (6): Oh, in San Francisco?

Devotee (5): Yeah, they printed it while the festival was going on in India, and he didn't know anything about it until he came back and saw that it was all printed. He said they were going to use it for some..., something to do with lectures.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Devotee (5): They were going to use it to introduce lectures and so forth.

Prabhupada: So it was not published, so why did he publish unauthorized?

Devotee (5): Oh, I don't know. He said that he was a little upset about it himself.

Prabhupada: So this should not take place again. They should be informed that without being passed by the authority, nobody should publish any literature. This is already [indistinct]...

Devotee (5): Without, without being passed by the authorities...?

Prabhupada: Should not be published.

Devotee (5): Does that mean the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust trustees?

Prabhupada: Yes. So those who are managing, but why they are [indistinct]? Where does he live?

Devotee (3): I..., we're still not sure who published it. Uh, Bahulasva or Dharmadhyaksa? Has anybody..., did you mention that?

Devotee (5): Ramesvara told me that they are the ones who did it, from the San Francisco center. Bahulasva he mentioned, and a Dharmadhyaksa.

Devotee (3): Hmm. Hmm. He's in LA.

Devotee (5): He mentioned those two. He didn't mention the others. He said they were...

Prabhupada: Bahulasva published, published?

Devotee (5): He said Bahulasva and Dharmadhyaksa.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Devotee (5): Dharmadhyaksa. I don't know who he is.

Devotee (3): It's the colleges.

Devotee (5): Oh. They're, I think, in charge of the college program.

Prabhupada: The idea is good, but [indistinct]. Impersonal.

Devotee (5): Hmm.

Prabhupada: Impersonal is not good.

Devotee (5): So if someone was to receive this, they wouldn't necessarily connect it with you at all. They could think it was anything, 'cause there's no mention of your name.

Prabhupada: Who published it?

Devotee (5): Uhh, I don't know who printed it.

Prabhupada: That you did not ask?

Devotee (5): Ramesvara didn't know anything about who printed it or how many copies were printed or anything. He said all he knew was that it was put together by Bahulasva and Dharmadhyaksa.

Prabhupada: So ask them.

Devotee (5): I have to contact them and find out how it was actually... Should I write them a letter?

Prabhupada: He just sent one letter. You, you reply.

Devotee (5): This letter?

[pause]

Prabhupada: So he, he is informed we are going?

Devotee (5): Ramesvara? Oh, yeah. They're waiting.

Prabhupada: So, [indistinct].

Devotee (5): Well, they sent the tickets today, but we have not made the reservation yet. We were waiting for them to... [break]

Prabhupada: ...that place was selected...

Devotee (5): Hmm.

Prabhupada: ...for fighting. Dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre. [Bg 1.1] Kuru-ksetra is dharma-ksetra.

Devotee (7): Do you want to establish one center there?

Prabhupada: Very big city. [indistinct]

Devotee (7): Yeah, I would like to help.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Devotee (7): I would like to help.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Devotee (7): ...[indistinct]?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Especially when there is eclipse.

Devotee (7): I see.

Prabhupada: This Ratha-yatra is in memory of Krsna's coming there with His brother and sister during one eclipse, to take bath, coming from Dvaraka.

Devotee (7): And the gopis also assembled there?

Prabhupada: The gopis got the information that Krsna is coming from Dvaraka, so from Vrndavana they went to see Him. And when Krsna and Radharani met, the Radharani lamented that Krsna-He was the same Krsna and the same Radharani-so "This is not a good meeting place. So if You come to Vrndavana, then I shall be happy." So it is inviting Krsna to Vrndavana. That is the feeling of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Ratha-yatra. He is inviting Krsna to Vrndavana. So in Jagannatha Puri still the same feelings are there. Krsna, Jagannatha, from the temple goes to Gunḍica. So Laksmi is angry, that "Krsna is leaving me. He has gone to Vrndavana." So she was..., she is punishing. That is called Hera-pancami, punishing the servants of Krsna. The maidservants of Laksmi chastising them, threatened them, "Why without permission?" [laughs] So they, out of very fearful condition, offering their respect to Laksmi, "Mother, you don't be sorry. I am here [indistinct]." So this, this is the play performed, and Caitanya Mahaprabhu associates they saw, and they enjoyed very much when the maidservant of Laksmi was slapping the servant of Visnu. That is mentioned Caitanya-caritamrta. All the servants arrested, brought before Laksmi, and they are punished. [laughs] But they came to invite Krsna, Radharani and other gopis. And actually they did not go at that time. But this Ratha-yatra ceremony means Krsna is coming from Dvaraka to Kuruksetra. This is the history of Ratha-yatra.

Devotee (5): Do they have any temples of Lord Jagannatha there? They have any temples of Lord Jagannatha in Kuruksetra?

Prabhupada: No. Jagannatha, that is another history. King Indradyumna, he wanted to establish a temple of that incidence, and that the deities while being carved would remain unfinished. So he was very impatient to establish, so he established the unfinished Deity. That is Jagannatha.

Devotee (7): The nondevotees cannot understand...

Prabhupada: They are being carved, Krsna's wood form, but he was so impatient, he said, "Whatever is done now, establish." It is said that Visvakarma was engraving. So the term was, Visvakarma said that "Unless I finish, don't open the door." So this king, he went impatiently, and calling out whether he is finished. Then he forced..., forcibly opened the door, and it was unfinished. So he said, "Never mind, This is Jagannatha." Unfinished Krsna incarnation. So Krsna, finished or unfinished, is Krsna. That is omnipotency. That is Jagannatha form, worshipable, doesn't matter finished or unfinished. [end]