Morning Walk

March 21, 1976, Mayapura
Prabhupada: ...met recently our Lalita Caca? You did not?
Bhavananda: Who is that?
Prabhupada: Lalita, Lalita, Lalita Thakura or...
Prabhupada: Huh, huh.
Bhavananda: In Birnagara, no. Jayapataka has been there, but I haven't been there in years. [break]
Prabhupada: ...moon is hot, they say, because the shade of the earth is obstructing.
Prabhupada: Is it not?
Devotees: Yes.
Trivikrama: They say that the sun is hitting like that.
Prabhupada: Eh? The sun is there, and the earth is there. How it becomes...?
Pusta Krsna: The earth is bet.... The earth is between the sun and the moon. Therefore there's some...
Prabhupada: That's all right, in between.
Hamsaduta: No, no. They say that the sun's rays are striking it, only half. The other half is in shadow.
Prabhupada: What is that shadow?
Devotee (1): Night. Like nighttime on the earth.
Hamsaduta: Shadow. Like a ball. If I have a ball and shine a light on it, then...
Prabhupada: No. No, no. Shadow.
Hamsaduta: ...this side will be in shadow.
Prabhupada: Shadow.... "Shadow" means earthly shadow? No.
Hamsaduta: No no, no. Its own shadow. If this is a ball, and the light is coming from here, see, this portion will be in darkness or shadow. And the other portion will reflect light.
Pusta Krsna: That's not the modern theory.
Devotees: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: Is that all right? Explanation?
Devotee (1): Sounds all right.
Hamsaduta: That's what they say.
Prabhupada: "They say." What you say?
Hamsaduta: We don't know anything. After meeting you, we wonder if we know anything, because we thought the moon was going around the earth.
Pusta Krsna: What shadow is that? The moon casts its own shadow.
Hamsaduta: That's what they say.
Prabhupada: They, their explanation is...
Pusta Krsna: Half the moon is in darkness.
Trivikrama: Yeah, the back side.
Prabhupada: The back side.
Trivikrama: The back side of the moon. That's what we're seeing now. The sun's here, hitting...
Prabhupada: I can understand now. That means moon. Moon is.... A portion is bright.
Devotees: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Half of it is always bright.
Devotee: Yes. The part that's facing the sun.
Prthu-putra: But this is less than half.
Prabhupada: And when they go to the moon planet, they go to the dark side. Is it not?
Hamsaduta: No.
Panca-dravida: No, they say they go to the light side, too.
Hamsaduta: No, they say the dark side is so cold that no one can.... Because there's no sunlight, it is so cold.
Prabhupada: That means they have no experience of all the sides of the moon.
Hamsaduta: No, they don't. They only have one side, experiencing.
Prabhupada: So, so what is the cause of the brightness?
Panca-dravida: The sun.
Prabhupada: They have brought some dust, but this is not bright.
Trivikrama: They say it's reflected light.
Prabhupada: That's all right. What is the material that makes it so bright so that whole universe is illuminated?
Hamsaduta: There's no comment on that point.
Prthu-putra: They don't know that.
Prabhupada: They have brought some dust, but that is not bright. They have said.... The other scientists, they said, "This kind of dust can be available here." Just see. Now, how it is bright?
Panca-dravida: Well, they say that from space the earth would be bright also, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: The nonsense may say anything. But our common sense that if the, there is some ingredient in this moon which makes it bright, so they have brought the dust, but other scientists say that this dust can be available here.
Panca-dravida: So it may be cheating.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Panca-dravida: Actually, they have not proved anything.
Prabhupada: That is my contention.
Trivikrama: They say the moon is bright, just like if a cloud is in the sky, it appears very white and bright because the sun is hitting it. But the same cloud, if you bring it into the room, it's just mist.
Prabhupada: But cloud is not always existing. But this brightness is always existing. Cloud is sometimes appearing, sometimes disappearing. The moon brightness is regular. How you can compare with cloud? When you compare, there must be consistency. Analogy. Analogy means similar position. Otherwise, analogy has no meaning.
Hamsaduta: Here's Jayapataka.
Prabhupada: Ah! [break].... Our Lalita Caca wants to do? You met him recently?
Jayapataka: Oh. So his point is...
Prabhupada: Does he want to do something or simply speculate?
Jayapataka: He says that he wants to do something and so does some of his people.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayapataka: But he has a committee. He has a society. One Mr. Bhattacarya, who is a lawyer, and this Sacinandana, who is a clerk.
Prabhupada: But that's all right. What they want to do?
Jayapataka: But they never.... We never spoke to those people.
Prabhupada: I have told him that "Whatever you want to give us, give us. If you cannot give us, give us in lease. You remain your proprietor, but give us in lease, and we develop it." But he has never replied that. What does he want to do?
Jayapataka: Before he finalized once, he said he wanted to speak to you once more. But never was the thing actually discussed in detail with Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupada: It was discussed. And he agreed, "Yes," but his man has different idea. So if you think that he's serious, we can go today sometime. How long it takes by car?
Jayapataka: It takes about an hour.
Prabhupada: Hour.
Jayapataka: But actually it's on the route to Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Oh. So we can.... But that will be very hastily. That.... The road is all right?
Jayapataka: That.... The road to his place is all right. There's a shortcut from Krishnagara; if that's taken, then for a while, one kilometer, there's kaca road. After that, there's very, there's clear road with no traffic. Otherwise, if we.... We normally take that in the vans and in the jeep. We save about half an hour. But that way you have to go through one mile of kaca road. Otherwise, if you go by all paka road, then it's a good road. Just takes a...
Prabhupada: No, we shall go...
Jayapataka: ...little longer.
Prabhupada: It doesn't matter. We shall go by the paka. Kaca road may damage the car.
Pusta Krsna: Is that today or tomorrow, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: No. On the way to Calcutta, talking will not be very serious because we'll be busy to go fast.
Jayapataka: We'd be in a hurry.
Prabhupada: Hm? Yes. Yes. [break] So what is the use of such men? Why he's keeping these men? They cannot do anything. He gets some pension. Who spends that money? But they are not doing anything. So what is the meaning of this count?
Jayapataka: He admits that many times he has told some of them to leave their family life and take up some preaching, but they don't do it.
Prabhupada: How they'll do it? They do not know how to preach, neither they are trained up. That means it is his disqualification. He could not train them how to preach. Even Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He was training Haridasa Thakura, Nityananda, "Go there. Preach there. Do that." My Guru Maharaja was doing that. But he has no power. He cannot do it. He simply talks that he is a very confidential devotee. That's all. He cannot preach. Otherwise Prabhupada developed this Mayapura, and he could not do anything. That means he has no power.
Jayapataka: He should have developed that place.
Prabhupada: Yes. He simply talks of big, big words. In the beginning, Prabhupada had no committee, nothing of the sort. That he'll not admit, that he has no power to do so. He's simply thinks that he's very confidential son of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. That's his.... [break] ...nobody has seen his chief disciple? He lives in Calcutta.
Jayapataka: Yeah, he's not actually a babaji. He's grhastha.
Prabhupada: Oh, but he lives like a babaji dress.
Jayapataka: I don't know anyone lives by babaji... He wears dhoti.
Prabhupada: What is his name?
Jayapataka: Sacinandana.
Prabhupada: Oh. Oh, Sacinandana. So he.... I have seen several times. He's like babaji, but what he is?
Jayapataka: He's a clerk.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayapataka: He's a clerk.
Prabhupada: Clerk. And he's the chief man.
Jayapataka: He's a secretary. They have lawyer also, but he is the treasurer or something. I've only met with Sacinandana. [break] He does some preaching. He goes to Bangladesh and does kirtana on village to village sometimes. [break] ...if they give us the place or lease...
Prabhupada: What is the use of talking?
Jayapataka: What is the use of talking with Lalita Prasada?
Prabhupada: Eh? No. That was the.... Last talk was like that. I wanted that "You have to consider that whatever portion you can spare, give us on lease. We develop." That's all. Ninety-nine-year lease.
Jayapataka: I don't think he clearly understood. [break] Hm?
Panca-dravida: In what way would we develop it?
Prabhupada: Bhaktivinoda Thakura's birthplace? Make some nice building with some devotees, one to take care. That's all. Means making interested the local inhabitants.
Panca-dravida: Start programs.
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes. They should come and hear. The preachers, wanted.
Jayapataka: They showed me that one flat of five bighas that.... They were considering giving this to us if we would develop one guesthouse and one institute.
Prabhupada: No, they cannot make any condition. Whatever we shall like we shall do. There is no condition. If they give us on lease, they are concerned with the rent. That's all. Yes.
Jayapataka: But they were willing to give outright.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayapataka: They were going to give outright one piece of land. They just requested that.... Their idea was that they hoped there would be a, some place for studying Bhaktivinoda Thakura's books, one type of Bhaktivinoda Thakura institute or library where people could.... All of his books would be collected, and his works...
Prabhupada: Oh, that is a good idea. That we can do.
Jayapataka: And some place for studying also.
Prabhupada: Hm. Five bighas. That we can do. If they agree, then let them give us. We shall do.
Jayapataka: Lalita Prasada Thakura was saying that.... He was feeling that one more interview with you was necessary. However, I'm reluctant to say to go today because I haven't seen him for a month or two, and I don't want a two-three hour trip to just go. Maybe nothing may come of it. That's why I'm thinking on the way to Calcutta there would be more..., wouldn't be much expenditure of time, I mean, as far as traveling goes. And let's say, if something comes of it, then it's all right. If something doesn't come, it's not such a great loss.
Prabhupada: All right, we can do that. Then we shall go by the nice...
Jayapataka: Oh, yes. The nice. There's only one little bridge. Other than that, everything is all right.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayapataka: There's one bridge like we went over yesterday. That's a little.... Otherwise, everywhere...
Prabhupada: No, no, bridge, it is in good condition or not? Sometimes it is.... Last time we went, that injured.... It made some damage.
Jayapataka: On what?
Prabhupada: The car was damaged.
Jayapataka: Oh, it won't damage the car.
Prabhupada: Oh. That is our concern. If the car is damaged, that is not good.
Jayapataka: The last journey there was some damage on the car?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: No damage on our car.
Prabhupada: No, no. Last time when I went.
Pusta Krsna: Last time, when Prabhupada went.
Jayapataka: Oh, no, since then they've improved the road. Oh, that road has been paved now. Paka road.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Jayapataka: [break] ...there, Srila Prabhupada. They've got a mango orchard also. What time will you be leaving here tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Early in the morning.
Pusta Krsna: Five.
Prabhupada: Or when...? As you like. I have no.... [break] They.... How we see the sun is fixed up? The sun is moving, we see, so quickly. And the moon is moving, but it does not move. It is fixed up. Mean regarding the time, you can see practically, the sun is moving. And they say it is fixed up. The fixed-up article is moving quickly, and the moving article is fixed up. Why?
Panca-dravida: When a train is in the station, when the train pulls out of the station, when you're in the train, it looks like that the station is moving and you're standing still.
Prabhupada: Train has got different movement. But that means it has got different movement? Your analogy is imperfect.
Panca-dravida: No, but if we...
Prabhupada: You cannot compare with train because train has got different movement. But they haven't got different movement.
Panca-dravida: But if this was moving at the same speed as the earth, it would appear to be fixed up. If the moon and the earth were both moving at the same speed, it would appear to be fixed up.
Prabhupada: No. We see practically. Now we are standing. We see the sun is moving. It comes. And the moon is moving, but it is fixed up. Why it is? The moving matter is stand still, and the fixed-up matter is moving.
Panca-dravida: Actually, it's we who are moving. The sun is...
Prabhupada: But my speed is the same.
Panca-dravida: Pardon me?
Prabhupada: My, this earthly moving, that speed is the same. Why you find different position? Just consider with brain.
Pusta Krsna: If the moon is closer than the sun, according to the scientist's philosophy...
Prabhupada: Philosophy.... But we see, I mean, a distant matter is moving. We can see. And nearer we cannot see. It is fixed up. What is this?
Pusta Krsna: If you take a bicycle wheel, a spoke...
Prabhupada: A bicycle you cannot concern. Bicycle or train, they have got different speed. You cannot compare. That analogy will not...
Pusta Krsna: Say you take one spoke, one...
Prabhupada: No, no, we, cannot.... You cannot bring bicycles in discussion first of all. You can talk all this to the fools. Analogy cannot be accepted unless they are similar.
Panca-dravida: The moon is locked up. The moon is in the same...
Prabhupada: That means you are suggesting simply. You have no clear idea. Actually the sun is moving. That is my point. Such a huge, gigantic matter, and we see, so quickly.... From the sunrise, now, it is not even fifteen minutes. Just imagine how big speed is there is.
Jayapataka: But it is not so fast at midday.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayapataka: It is not so fast at midday.
Prabhupada: No. Eh? No...
Jayapataka: At midday, it is not so...
Prabhupada: Faster, fast..., it is fast also. But because on the head. The speed is the same. You cannot say...
Pusta Krsna: One point is there, though, Srila Prabhupada. If the moon is illuminatingit gives off its own lightthen why can we only see half of the moon now?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: If the moon is illuminating, why can we only see half of the moon?
Prabhupada: They say there is half of the illuminating.
Pusta Krsna: Yes, because it's reflected from the sun.
Prabhupada: The shadow, then there is shadow. It is being shadowed.
Pusta Krsna: If it's reflection.
Prabhupada: No, reflection we do not accept.
Pusta Krsna: It's illuminating.
Prabhupada: It is Illuminating.
Pusta Krsna: Giving off light.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: So then why is it that we can only see half of the moon, then?
Panca-dravida: Half moon.
Prabhupada: About these movements, my position is different. My position is.... There is two movements, a sun movement and the whole planetary system movement. So according to the movement.... That is explained in the Bhagavatam.
Panca-dravida: Why is it sometimes there's only quarter moon, no moon, half moon, full moon?
Prabhupada: The same explanation. On the whole, we have to accept that something wonderful is going on. And that is Krsna's arrangement.
Prabhupada: You cannot explain. You, you rascal scientists, from so much distant, you have calculated, "This is thi..." This is all wrong. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah. They are carrying order of Krsna, not your order. Yasyajnaya. "By the order of Govinda," not your order. Yasyajnaya bhramati sambhrta-kala-cakrah.
Panca-dravida: [break] "There may be a God, but all these stories..."
Prabhupada: "There may be." That is rascaldom.
Panca-dravida: All these stories about Him...
Prabhupada: Anyone who says "maybe," he's not scientist. He's a rascal. Then why shall I hear him? Rascal. Why shall I waste my time? I am not going to waste my time to hear a rascal. How can I? I have got value of my time. As soon as he says "Maybe there is God," he's a rascal.
Panca-dravida: Then, if he says...
Prabhupada: Now, just like if somebody says, "Maybe there is a president," he's a rascal. He does not know what is the history, what is the constitution. He does not know. So why a gentleman should waste a time with such a rascal who says, "There may be a president"? Immediately he becomes a rascal.
Panca-dravida: Then he says, "There is a God, but all these stories about Him and His activities, they are just imaginations."
Prabhupada: That's right. You do not know what is God, after all. "There may be." Then who is going to hear you? You do not know. Your statement is also another story.
Panca-dravida: I am not a scientist.
Prabhupada: No, no. The scientists, if they say "There may be God," that means he's a rascal. Scientist means, whatever he will say, that is accurate. That is scientist. What is the difference between a layman and scientist? That is the difference. The scientist will say what is actual fact. That is scientist.
Panca-dravida: They only accept...
Prabhupada: That is not scientist, that he..., "maybe, perhaps..." That is not scientist.
Panca-dravida: Well, they only accept what they can confirm by experimentation.
Prabhupada: That means their experiment is not perfect. Their observation is not perfect-vague idea. So how he can become a scientist? That is no scientist.
Panca-dravida: What is the position of one who accepts God, that there is.... [break] (end)

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