Morning Walk

March 1, 1976, Mayapur
Prabhupada: Atomic theory...
Acyutananda: The atomic theory...
Dayananda: What is the atomic theory?
Hrdayananda: Atomic... That everything is constituted of different atoms, and the ultimate truth is the atomic particle, and by different combinations of these particles, different material manifestations are produced, and there's no other cause except this endless combining of atomic particles.
Prabhupada: Wherefrom the atom comes?
Hrdayananda: The atom is the eternal fact. It is inconceivable or it's unexplainable where it has come from.
Prabhupada: Then what is the use of your explaining? Then you prove yourself you are a rascal. Inexplicable? Why you are trying to explain?
Guru-krpa: "We're not explaining. We're just accepting it's a fact."
Prabhupada: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentlemanat least in Indiafor your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramanuvada. Kanada, the great sage, Kanada, he gave this theory, Kanada. Paramanuvada. Paramanuvad. Paramanuvada is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramanu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?
Guru-krpa: Does that mean that the atom is living entity?
Prabhupada: Eh? No. Living entity is also atom. One class of atom is matter, and one class of atom is the living entity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita.... Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca [Bg. 7.4]. These are... This material, matter, everything is combination of atom, atomic particles. Either you take earth or take water or air or fire, everything is combination of atom. That's a fact. But we know that these atoms are coming out as the energy of Krsna. Bhinna. Bhinna means the quality different; not of the same quality. Apareyam: "This is inferior quality, but there is another, superior quality, jiva bhuta, and that is living entity." So two kinds of atoms are coming from Krsna. One is the spiritual atom, and the other is the material atom. So spiritual atoms, they are many, many times greater than the material atoms. And these material atoms is this universal, innumerable universes. Some of the spiritual atoms, when they want to enjoy independently, they are given the chance of enjoying this material atom. So in the material world it is combination of material and spiritual atoms. In the spiritual world, there is no material atom; everything spirit. That is three-fourth energy, and this is one fourth. Paramanu-cayantara-stham. [break]
Guru-krpa: If we say that Krsna enters even within the atom, what is His business there?
Prabhupada: Business is to guide the rascals like you. (laughter) Do you follow or not?
Guru-krpa: Well, the material atoms...
Prabhupada: Because Krsna loves you so much that even you accept this material atom, He goes to help you. Therefore He is within. Because sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisthah [Bg. 15.15]. The living entity has a..., enjoying this material world. So he has got everything. He's a person. He has got his heart. So in the heart there is Krsna. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistho. You read Bhagavad-gita. Why? Why He has..., sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistho? Hmm? Who will say? Why He has...? Your question is "Why?"
Hrdayananda: Mattah smrtir...
Prabhupada: Ah! Mattah smrtir jnanam. He's always trying: "You rascal, why you are suffering in this way? Come back home." This is the answer. He's so kind. That is His kindness. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistho mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. We are talking of this philosophy, "How?" Krsna is giving intelligence. Otherwise, how it is possible? The same thing, as we are preaching Krsna consciousness by the dictation of KrsnaKrsna is asking, sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam saranaso in the atom also He's doing the same business. Andantara-stham paramanu-cayantara-stham. Now your question is answered or not? Eh?
Hrdayananda: Your question is answered?
Guru-krpa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Why Krsna is within the atom? That is answered or not? Wherever there is the living entity, Krsna is there as friend. Su-parna, sayuja. So, from the sastra it is understood, as many material atoms are there, so many spiritual atoms are there. Now you can imagine how many living entities are there. (sic:) Physists, they have not been able to find out the spiritual atom. Therefore they are puzzled, and their scientific research is incomplete. But the Bhagavad-gita gives them information, "You rascal, this is inferior. These material atoms are inferior." Apareyam. They'll not take it. Apareyam itas tu: "Besides this, there is another energy, spiritual energy." "What is that spiritual energy? We do find." "You don't find? Why don't you see jiva-bhuta, these living entities?" But they are rascals. They will not see. They cannot understand what is this living entity, and Krsna is saying, "Here is another atom. Apareyam itas tu me viddhi prakrtim para." But the rascal will not take it. This is their rascaldom. Krsna is giving them information, and still, they'll not take it. This is their dog obstinacy. Solution is there. They won't have to make very difficult research work. Here is information. But they'll not take it. The atoms which you are studying, that is all right. That is material, apara, inferior. But there is another atom. And if you say, "What is that atom? We do not find," "Don't you find this living entity?" And still, they are... They say the problems are solved. Just see how foolish they are. He's seeing the living entity, and Krsna is pointing out: "Here is the superior atom," and still they say, "We do not know." What to do with them? Eh? They cannot find out by their own research, and the information is there by Krsna, and still they'll not take it. So, what is to do with them?
Dayananda: We can show that they are fools by presenting your literatures, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dayananda: We can show that they are actually fools by...
Prabhupada: No, no...
Dayananda: ...presenting your books.
Prabhupada: Yes. Our Acyutananda Maharaja says... Eh?
Prabhupada: What do you think?
Acyutananda: I couldn't follow.
Hrdayananda: Prabhupada said, "What should we do with these scientists? They won't accept Krsna's knowledge that there is a soul..."
Prabhupada: They are find..., researching atom. They could not come to the ultimate conclusion. And we say that this atom is energy, but it is inferior, and there is another energy. So they, if they say that "We do not find anything except this atom..."
Acyutananda: They cannot explain how, in the body, by eating food, it turns into...
Prabhupada: No, no. It is not the question of... First of all, decide there are two kinds of energies working.
Prabhupada: Material energy and spiritual energy. So, so far material energy, they have come to the point of atom, and they are searching out. But Krsna says, "Yes, this material atom is all right. But this is apara. This is inferior. There is another superior energy, atom." What is that? "This jiva-bhuta." So why don't you not see it? How rascal they are. Jiva-bhuta is there. He is seeing jiva bhuta, living... So Krsna is giving information, "Here is the superior atom." Why don't do they not see to it?
Acyutananda: Because they are so sinful, they cannot see.
Prabhupada: Yeah. That is the...
Acyutananda: Like Duryodhana. Even people criticize Krsna, "Why He could not convince Duryodhana to be peaceful?" Because there was nothing... He was so sinful that he had used up all his pious...
Prabhupada: So that is the Duryodhana party.
Prabhupada: Accha.
Acyutananda: The scientists are all sinful.
Prabhupada: The Duryodhana party, and we are Pandu's party. So there must be war always, fighting. And they'll be smashed. Hrdayani vya... You know that? "Breaking the heart of the Dhartarastra." So we have to make preaching in such a way to break the heart of this Dhrtarastra company.
Prabhupada: Ah, vyadarayat. Then it will be preaching. There are two energies everywhere. The example is given: just like the sun, the two energies working, heat and light. Everyone can see. Parasya brahmanah saktih. Sakti means energy. So whatever we are seeing, that is combination of two energies of Krsna, Krsna is also saying the same thing. Parasya brahmanah saktih. Any child can understand. The sun is situated in one place, localized, and his heat and energy, atomic particles, is being distributed all over the universe. What is this fog? Eh? What is this fog which is obstructing seeing the sun? What is this fog? Hm?
Devotees: Water.
Prabhupada: Yes. The water is also an energy of sun. Because heat is there, within the heat there is water. What is, the physists say? What is the source of water? What do they say?
Acyutananda: They say all the energy is created from the sun, all the planets...
Prabhupada: That's all right. That's all right. The sun is heat. So the water is there from the heat. [break] ...these scientists, making research work to find out what is after atom, proton, neutron. They're searching out.
Acyutananda: They're never satisfied with their achievements.
Prabhupada: No, they cannot be because they did not find out what is the ultimate source. They could not. Therefore they cannot be satisfied. If... A really scientist, how he can be satisfied? The goal is not yet achieved. How they can be satisfied? But we are satisfied because we know that the goal, the cause, ultimate cause, is Krsna. [break] ...instruction is not blind. It is fact. Just like my body is there, and on account of my energy, so I am getting flesh, I am getting nail.
Acyutananda: Yes, they cannot explain how the body transforms into...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: ...tissue.
Prabhupada: Yes. But explain or not explain, I am seeing practically that two things are coming out: one, the skin, where there is sensation; and where, this nail, there is no sensation. This is matter and spirit. Where there is consciousness, that is spirit. Where there is no consciousness, that is matter.
Hrdayananda: Very good example.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hrdayananda: Very nice example.
Prabhupada: But both of them are coming from me. So this sensation, this consciousness, is perfect when it comes to Krsna consciousness. This is developing, in every living entity is developing. The consciousness, the sensation, is there in the tree also, but he is not developed. When the same consciousness comes to the complete perfection, then he understands, "Oh, here is Krsna." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That is perfection. Vasudevah sarvam iti: "The real source is Vasudeva." Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. Then he glorifies Vasudeva. But to know Vasudeva, you make research. That is one way, going on. But if you accept... Vasudeva says, "I am everything." Then accept immediately. The whole solution is there. Two, two ways: aroha-pantha, avaroha-pantha. You are trying to search out. Go on. It will take many, many births. But if you accept... The same Vasudeva is coming kindly aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. You accept it, then the knowledge is perfect. Suppose I am making this sound (makes sound with cane). Underneath they are puzzled: "Wherefrom this sound is coming?" They are making research. And if I say, "I am making this sound," then everything, knowledge, is there. The rascal will not surrender. Ask the man who is making sound. Then the knowledge is perfect. But he'll make research: "Wherefrom the sound came?" This is rascaldom. And one man is suggesting, "It is... The sound may be like this. The sound may be due to this." They are going on, researching. But if I say, "You rascal, why you are contemplating like that? I made this sound like this (make sound with cane). That's all," So that knowledge they'll not take. Mudhah. Therefore they are... Nabhijanati. Mam ebhyah param avyayam. So if we call them all mudhas, what is the wrong? They become angry. But if we call them, all these rascals, mudhas, what is the wrong? They say, "Oh, you are using very strong language. You are calling us all mudhas." But actually you are all mudhas because you do not know Krsna. [break] ...ment of atom?
Dayananda: One ten-thousandth the tip of a hair.
Prabhupada: Eh? No, no, atom, this atom. Scientists, they are studying atom. So what is the measurement of atom?
Hrdayananda: So small that...
Prabhupada: "So small that..." A child can say like that.
Acyutananda: They are all different sizes.
Hrdayananda: That a million, they say that...
Prabhupada: No, no. There are two sizes. One is anu, and one is paramanu. Six anus make one paramanu. That is statement. Six anus, and combine together it becomes a paramanu. That is atom. Therefore they are dividing atom. That is already there in the Vedic literature.
Acyutananda: So the scientists' conception of atom is wrong?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Acyutananda: The scientists' conception of the atom is wrong.
Prabhupada: Everything is wrong.
Acyutananda: But by their, even though they are, they are wrong, by their conception they are making an atomic bomb. They can utilize...
Prabhupada: So far you can, can...
Acyutananda: To show results.
Prabhupada: That does not mean he knows everything. That does not mean...
Acyutananda: No, but he can say...
Prabhupada: Suppose you, you, if you can make a nice vegetable preparation, but that does not mean you know everything of the vegetable. That does not mean. You are still rascal. Although you can prepare a nice preparation with vegetable. But that does not mean you know everything of the vegetable. That is karu karya. That is called karu karya. Just like this mason worker. They know how to set up the bricks and doing nice work. But that does not mean... Wherefrom the brick has come? You can take this flower, make a, what is called, in a vase, can make a beautiful...
Devotee (1): Bouquet.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee (1): Bouquet?
Acyutananda: Arrangement.
Prabhupada: Yes, bouquet, yes. That does not mean you know how the flower has come out. That is called visarga. Sarga and visarga. Just like Brahma has created this universe, but that does not mean he is the ultimate cause. Tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye [SB 1.1.1]. Brahma got knowledge from Krsna how to do it. What is this? [break] ...anu-cayanthara-stham. [break] ...tejah, heat, the sun, supplying heat and water, vari and mrt, and the earth, combination. These things are coming out. Tejo-vari-mrt-vinimayam. How these flowers and trees are coming out? There is sunlight, there is water, and there is earth. And there is Krsna also, the seed. Bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. So without Krsna, nothing can be... [break] ...there is spirit atom?
Yasodanandana: Yes. The arguments are very convincing, especially this last point about how the plants are growing with the help of sunlight, earth, water and... Scientists only have very shallow explanations of how life comes about.
Prabhupada: [break] ...such verse. Yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati (Mundaka Upanisad 1.3). They do not know Krsna. Therefore they cannot understand.
Yasodanandana: In the introduction to The Nectar of Devotion, you have also mentioned nicely that even though there are so many scholars and scientists, they cannot even follow these four principles of no meat-eating, illicit sex life and everything. They may have so much academic knowledge, but they cannot even control their senses. But by your mercy, even though we are very inexperienced in such knowledge, we are able to control the senses.
Prabhupada: Ajitendriyanam. Without controlling the senses, other things, they are simply professional. It has no value. [break]...yogis, all their methods, they have been described by Prahlada Maharaja as a way of their livelihood. Actually, they have no knowledge. They are talking of, as knowledge, but they have no knowledge. This profession is their means of their livelihood. Otherwise, they have no value. Just like a magician. He shows some magic, but that does not mean he has all knowledge. He has taken these magic performances as a means of his livelihood. [break] ...ti ajitendriyanam. Jugglery of words, they are professional. [break] ...that big, big words. Then people engage them: "Oh, here is a big scientist." And if he's not engaged, his talking has no value. By the knowledge he has acquired, he can make some money. That's all.
Hrdayananda: That's exactly what's happening.
Prabhupada: Yes. And if you ask, they will say, "That we do not know." So why you are taking money? Exactly they say so. Our Svarupa Damodara challenged that professor who came to lecture in California University. He challenged, "If I give you chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say."
Kirtiraja: "We are trying," they said.
Prabhupada: Then why you are, you are bluffing and taking money from us? You do not know. [break] I'll have to go to you, and both of them, I'll have to... The Marwari this... Gujaratis, they use too much oil. Similarly Bengalis, too much oil. Imli, imli water?
Indian devotee (1): Yes, and chili.
Prabhupada: And chili. That's all.
Indian devotee (1): Actually, Prabhupada, in Jaipuriya, when they invited us, when we were in Kanpur, all the devotees, for three days we were eating very simple food, but the devotees liked so much. They were eating lots.
Prabhupada: Oh, Jaipuriya invite them?
Indian devotee (1): Yeah, Jaipuriya, yeah, when we were in Kanpur.
Prabhupada: Oh, Jaipuriya is that whole name? (land?)
Indian devotee (1): Mantura.
Prabhupada: Mantura. He came to our temple.
Indian devotee (2): His son came here.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Indian devotee (2): Yeah. The other day his sons came here.
Prabhupada: Here?
Indian devotee (2): Yes, to see you one evening.
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] ...country which is desert practically, but they are luxurious, they are rich. Wife. But they're devotees at the same time. In their country also, they have got many cows. They get sufficient milk. And from that milk, they prepare so many things, milk, ghee and then they get channa. So they know how to prepare so many things from channa, laddus. [break]
Indian devotee (1): Laddu. [break]
Jayapataka: They're maintaining the rules.
Prabhupada: Yes. All over India, they're not so fallen as the ksatriyas and brahmanas. (end)

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