Room Conversation After Film

June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban
Rsi Kumara: It was very beautiful.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Rsi Kumara: Very nice film.
Prabhupada: Now make Indian Bengali edition. It will be very much appreciated in India. Yes. Is it not?
Rsi Kumara: Yes, everything looks so pleasing.
Prabhupada: Yes. They will very much like this movement. Make some Hindi version, Bengali.
Kirtanananda: I think it will be a great success in India.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Kumbhamela we can show. You had been in Kumbhamela?
Rsi Kumara: No, I haven't. Last time it was Kumbhamela, I was in Bombay. I had to do some business with books and stuff.
Prabhupada: So you begin this preaching work in India with this film. With few assistants go village to village. They'll appreciate very much. Here also they will appreciate. What do you think? School, college, university. They'll get an idea of new life.
Kirtanananda: Yes. There are many colleges that give courses now in alternate life styles.
Prabhupada: Yes, this a...
Kirtanananda: This film, they will love to show this in class.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is the alternative life style. It is not that... This is the only. The other thing is fictitious. That's nice. Keep it. Any other film? No. Make similar films. And I was anxious about food production. That is there, already there.
Kirtanananda: Could have been a little more.
Prabhupada: No, it is... In nutshell everything is there. Our agriculture, our temple, and food growing, and everything is there. Radha-Krsna worship. The sum and substance, everything... And you are living practically for the last... Eight years? Here?
Kirtanananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: You have no difficulty. You are happy more and more. Immense land. You can come, hundreds. We can provide. There is food. There is shelter.
Kirtanananda: They are worried that by protecting the cow it would not be economic, that they would lose. But actually we have proofthe more we protect cows, the more we gain in opulence.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kirtanananda: Our community is gaining in opulence.
Prabhupada: Yes. Dhanyena dhanavan. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhanyena dhanavan gavayo dhanavan. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oh, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Krsna. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Krsna." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy. That logic even I have given? Andha-pangu?
Pusta Krsna: Blind and lame.
Prabhupada: India could not improve on account of poverty, lame. And America? Blind for want of culture. So let the blind man carry the lame man on the head, and the lame man give direction that "Go this way," and he walks. So both men's work is done. There is no hampering because one is blind and one is lame. Combined together, they get the benefit. Andha-pangor nyaya.
Radhavallabha: The book distributors use that example sometimes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Radhavallabha: It works too.
Prabhupada: Do it very sincerely. Don't spoil life. Be very sober and do this work. Whole world will be happy. After all, they are seeking after happiness. So there is happiness here. So our Rsi Kumara is very intelligent boy. He can do so many things. Don't spoil him. Whatever is done is done. Sometimes maya is strong. He bewilders even Lord Siva. That is... But Siva immediately came to his senses"What I am doing?" So things are going on nice. Continue this program. People will be happy. And I think America is the only place who can spread this Krsna consciousness movement happily for the benefit of the whole world. You have got everything sufficient. Now get the Krsna intelligence. Now here, in this quarter, sun also rising very nicely. Formerly it was not so bright. Due to this Hare Krsna chanting, sun is giving light. Is it not?
Kirtanananda: It is a fact.
Prabhupada: The more people will be sinful, the place will be dark with cloudy. Nature will always disturb. Tan aham dvisatah kruran [Bg. 16.19]. They will not be happy. It is not possible. This is the only way to become happy. So, so far as possible, I have given you some framework. Now you fill up. Make it a nice building. Yes. All right. (devotees offer obeisances) [break]
Pusta Krsna: Visakha was wondering who..., if you have any idea or choice who should do the Hindi translation or Bengali translation and speaking for the film like this. Did you have anyone in particular in mind, or inquiry should be made?
Prabhupada: It requires some professional man. Laymen cannot go with the film.
Hari-sauri: It needs a trained speaker.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Hari-sauri: Needs someone who's trained to speak nicely.
Prabhupada: Anyone can do. We can do also.
Pusta Krsna: But it may not come out so nice.
Prabhupada: But it may not be perfect. [break]
Rsi Kumara: Prabhupada, is it all right if I remain a sannyasi?
Prabhupada: Stay for some time. You'll get sannyasa. Stay for some time.
Rsi Kumara: I don't want to get married. It's just being kicked by maya. I can see that.
Prabhupada: At least you have got already experience. (laughs) Don't be misled. Stay for sometimes. Will be give you sannyasa. And now Mr. Punja, has he written any letter?
Pusta Krsna: Mr. Punjasai? He wrote a letter recently. He mentioned the business about the books, that Guru-krpa said he was supposed to some give books from Australia, and he wasn't getting them.
Prabhupada: So you can write himnote downthat "We are managing our Krsna consciousness movement by GBC. We have got about twenty GBC's for looking after the whole world affair, and above the GBC, I am there, and under the GBC's there are presidents, treasurers, secretaries in each and every center. So the president is responsible to the GBC. GBC is responsible to me. In this way we are managing. But why you are proposing a separate trustee for Fiji? We have no separate trustee till now, but if for security, if it is required, you can adopt it. So this is our management going on. Now, if you have got some new idea, so please explain to me how you want to manage. But I think Fiji temple cannot be managed in a separate idea. But still, I shall entertain if you have got some idea to manage. The deed should be given to the founder-acarya, in the name of founder-acarya like 'A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Founder-Acarya International Society.' "
Pusta Krsna: The deed?
Prabhupada: The deed, yes.
Kirtanananda: Should be?
Prabhupada: "It cannot be dedicated to any of the office-bearers."
Pusta Krsna: The deed should be...?
Prabhupada: "Deed should be made in favor of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya, International Society. But it cannot be dedicated to any office-bearer. So I suggest that you become the president on the temple and Upendra become the secretary, and either your brother or your wife can become the treasurer. There is no need of trustees. But in any circumstances, the temple cannot be a private property in the name of ISKCON. That is not possible."
Pusta Krsna: "A private property in the name of ISKCON."
Prabhupada: "If you want to keep it a private property, then the ISKCON name should not be utilized." Here you have understood that he's trying to utilize ISKCON's name...
Pusta Krsna: To collect.
Prabhupada: ...to collect, and he'll be keeper. That should be frankly disclosed, that "This is not possible." So we shall write our Upendra? No, I have already written that he should be the secretary. No?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. You mentioned earlier today that he was supposed to be one of the trustees, but now this is different, so...
Prabhupada: So we are not going to make any trustee.
Pusta Krsna: No, no trustee.
Prabhupada: That is wrong.
Kirtanananda: I understand.
Prabhupada: Yes. So in this way write him, "I am very much anxious to get your clear reply to this thing." Is that all right?
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: All right.
Kirtanananda: Can I...
Prabhupada: So many things, "push-push-push-push" is going on. Let it be clear. If he wants to keep it private property, then we shall withdraw ISKCON name. Let him do it privately.
Hari-sauri: And he should send copies of the deeds also.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Because he has not yet produced the deeds.
Pusta Krsna: That's what I wanted to ask, request a copy of the deed.
Prabhupada: You understand Hindi?
Rsi Kumara: Not really. A little bit, but I can't follow it. Do you want me to go to India, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Wherever you find suitable.
Rsi Kumara: I was thinking about going back to Los Angeles for a while, because there's good preaching to be done in Los Angeles and Laguna Beach too. I know a lot of people there.
Prabhupada: Los Angeles or New York. New York is your old place. But you don't want to go there?
Rsi Kumara: New York? I can go there, I guess, but...
Prabhupada: No, you can remain in Los Angeles for the time being.
Rsi Kumara: Because I know a lot of people in Laguna Beach who can be preached to. I think they'd be receptive, people who are...
Prabhupada: Reception is everywhere if we manage nice.
Rsi Kumara: There are a lot of artists and people who have everything, and they're living in the nicest..., that's about the nicest place to live, and they're all unhappy. My brother's living there. He's a psychiatrist, and he's beginning to understand that the more he thinks, the more confused he gets, and I've been preaching to him, and he understands. There are also a lot of devotees who aren't in the temple now. They like Krsna consciousness, but they also can be preached to, I think.
Prabhupada: Yes, preaching constantly required to keep them in balance. As soon as the balance is tilted over on the maya side, then everything is finished.
Hari-sauri: They get a bit overwhelmed sometimes.
Prabhupada: That is possible. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg. 7.14]. It is very strong. But if we also become equally strong in Krsna consciousness, there is no... That... Just like in the beginning, a seed sown, it requires very careful attention. Then it grows up. And when one grows a tree, then that is all right. But so long it is not a treeit is a plantone has to take... And the watering is sravana-kirtana. Sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana. That is required. Mali hana sei bija kare aropana, sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana. I think, nineteenth chapter of Madhya-lila.
Hari-sauri: It's a very good description how the bhakti tree grows, the creeper of bhakti.
Pusta Krsna: Sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana? Nineteenth chapter, Madhya-lila. Mali hana kare sei bija aropana [Cc. Madhya 19.152], sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana: "When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of sravana and kirtana, hearing and chanting, the seed will begin to sprout."
Prabhupada: Is there any purport?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the sravana-kirtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the sravana-kirtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of sravana-kirtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridasa Thakura, who engaged in the sravana-kirtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridasa Thakura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in sravana-kirtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees. The word guru-prasada indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called guru-krpa. It is krsna-prasada, Krsna's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Krsna, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord. Bhakti-lata-bija means 'the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bija, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-lata-bija, or seed of devotional service. This bhakti-lata-bija is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Krsna. Other seeds are called anyabhilasa-bija, karma-bija and jnana-bija. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-lata-bija from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bija, jnana-bija, or political and social or philanthropic bija. However, bhakti-lata-bija is different from these other bijas. Bhakti-lata-bija can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-lata-bija, yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. Bhakti-lata-bija is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bija, or root cause, of karma, jnana and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-lata-bija. This bhakti-lata-bija is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called sravana-kirtana-hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting, kirtana. This is explained in Bhagavad-gita: vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana [Bg. 2.41]. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-lata-bija after receiving instructions from the spiritual master." Mali hana kare sei bija aropana, sravana-kirtana-jale karaye secana [Cc. Madhya 19.152].
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Hari-sauri: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: There were a funny man. They are called Gopal Bhan. So formerly kings, they used to keep some funny men because they are always full of anxiety, and one funny man would give them joke.
Pusta Krsna: They call them jesters, court jesters.
Prabhupada: Jester.
Kirtanananda: Court jester.
Prabhupada: Yes. Court jesters, yes. So there was a man, court jester, in Bengal. So the Muhammadan governor asked one Gopal Bhan, jester... He was jester in the court of Raja Krishna Chandra. So he asked him, Nawab, that "Gopal Bhan, I have heard you are very expert. Can you write a similar book, Mahabharata, about my kingdom?" (laughter) "Oh, yes. Why not?" That is not... So he took some hundred thousands of rupees and again come: "Give me another ten thousand," "Another ten," in this way. "When the book will be finished? You have taken so much money." "It is just on the verge of being finished." Then, when he saw that no more money can be taken"I have taken so much money"then he one day said that "Now, sir, one information is very essential. That is wanted. You give me, and the Mahabharata will be finished. Everything is there." "What is that information?" "Now, your wife, how many husband she has got?" "This is nonsense!" "Eh? Well, that is the main subject matter of Mahabharata. Draupadi had five husbands, so you are such a great person, your wife must have at least one dozen. Otherwise how Mahabharata will...?" "It is the subject matter of?" "Yes, that is the only subject matter, that Draupadi had five husbands. So you are such a big nawab, your wife must at least have one dozen. So give me their names." So he became very angry, "Don't talk all this nonsense." "Then I cannot finish your Mahabharata." "I have already invested..." So he took another ten thousand rupees, and he said, "Stop all this nonsense. That's all right." So these rascals, they are writing Gopal Bhan's Mahabharata, and the rascal government is paying them.
Pusta Krsna: They are not producing anything.
Prabhupada: They'll never be able. Challenge. "That we cannot say." As soon as you say "Make an egg," "That we cannot say." And they'll chant "Chemical evolution, chemical evolution" and get Nobel Prize. Rascals. But how the people are so foolish that they believe in this?
Pusta Krsna: Om ajnana-timirandhasya. Without spiritual master there is nothing they can say.
Prabhupada: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.
Hari-sauri: Yeah, that's too good.
Prabhupada: Hundreds of men demand them, that "Do it, otherwise don't talk nonsense. If you talk nonsense, then we will beat you with all our shoes." Then they'll stop all this nonsense talk. There is no punishment for their cheating and taking money.
Pusta Krsna: Your Back to Godhead article in this last magazine, "They can make a 747 jet, but not a tiny mosquito." Very thought-provoking.
Prabhupada: With pilot. 747, you have to pay expert pilot, but here with pilot. Make this. Simply talking. Not only mosquito: at night we see so many, just like full stop, the same mechanical, flying from here, there, from here moving. Airplane, exactly in the form of... Similarly standing and... That is our challenge. Challenge this. Go in public meeting. Bring these so-called scientists, "Why don't you make any...? Why do you talk all this nonsense and cheat people?" Simple. Why first of all Sunday? There is no Monday first. I think never this question's raised, anybody. Fool's paradise. The Western world is fool's paradise. Actually this is the time they are getting enlightenment. Otherwise they are all fool's paradise. No social life, no religious life, simply get money somehow or other and enjoy wine, women, meat. That's all. This is their civilization. Do live comfortably; there is no harm. But why misconception?
Hari-sauri: At least be honest.
Prabhupada: Yes. How can you deny God? All the scientists, they deny God. This simple fact that there is... [break] ...is mother, and beginning from grass to the highest form of human being there are children. The mother is there; the children are there. Who is the father? How you can say there is no father? If the mother is there, then child is there, there must be father. I do not know how they can deny a supreme father. Anyway, this New Vrindaban life will attract people gradually, this peaceful life. They are searching after alternative.
Hari-sauri: In the Vedic culture did they have sheep? Sheep herds? Did they keep sheep?
Prabhupada: Who?
Pusta Krsna: For making, you know, the wool, woolen garments like the cap and cadara... Sometimes it's made out of wool. They would get from sheep?
Prabhupada: Yes. No, the meat-eaters cannot be stopped. They will eat meat. So they can kill the small animals, unimportant, not cow. Krsna says, go-raksya. He never said lamb-raksya or hog-raksya. (laughs) You can eat hog. If it is decided that you must eat meat, then you can eat a nonimportant animal. We have no objection.
Pusta Krsna: Or at least, as you said this morning, wait until the cow dies naturally.
Prabhupada: That is another. Otherwise, if you want to kill, you kill less important animal.
Hari-sauri: Chickens.
Prabhupada: Yes. Give protection to the cow, the source of milk.
Hari-sauri: In most rural districts formerly, even just sixty or seventy years ago, they used to do that. The used to keep a hog or some animals for killing. They would fatten them up and kill them.
Prabhupada: Still in India, the low class, they keep hogs for killing. And they publicly kill the hog by burning outside the village skirt.
Hari-sauri: I can remember when I was a child that my grandfather, he had one pigsty. And the house we were living in, that also had a pigsty at the back. There were no pigs by the time I came, but only just a few years before they were doing that.
Prabhupada: Why the government should keep slaughterhouse?
Pusta Krsna: You asked them that in Mauritius, I remember. The government started a chicken slaughterhouse. You said, "Why the government should have slaughterhouse?" And they replied, "They will kill them anyway. There are so many Muslims." Prabhupada said, "Let them kill, but why the government should support this slaughter?"
Prabhupada: Let them kill at their house. Especially chicken, anyone can kill.
Hari-sauri: The government's idea is that "The people are going to do these activities, so we may as well cash in, make money."
Prabhupada: Huh?
Hari-sauri: The government, their idea is that if they are going to do this activity...
Prabhupada: And as soon as I heard that prime minister went to open this, I immediately...
Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada didn't want to meet him.
Prabhupada: "Oh, he's a rascal."
Hari-sauri: In Mauritius the prime minister opened a chicken factory.
Pusta Krsna: Yes, he's a Hindu too.
Prabhupada: Immediately I gave up the idea of meeting this rascal. [break]
Hari-sauri: Of course, they'll always try to claim...
Prabhupada: From our estimation it is failure. They have not gone there.
Prabhupada: But what is their standard of failure and success?
Hari-sauri: Well, they don't... They're establishing a standard now. They don't have a standard. They are always going to try to claim that it is beneficial. Otherwise, if it's judged a failure, then they won't get any money.
Prabhupada: That way they are successfulin getting money.
Hari-sauri: So they have to say it's a success. Just like this Mars thing. If they can land a spaceship that takes a few photographs, supposedly of Mars, then that's considered a success.
Prabhupada: Photograph you can take anywhere.
Hari-sauri: Yes. Could they actually...? Are they actually sending these spaceships to another planet, or...
Prabhupada: That they know. According to our calculations, they have not gone. Therefore false propaganda. They cannot go. (end)

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