Morning Walk

January 8, 1976, Nellore
Mahamsa: They say there are many old temples which need renovation, so they will spend the money for the renovation of old temples but not construct new temples.
Prabhupada: That means they don't want expansion.
Mahamsa: Yes.
Prabhupada: So what kind of committee?
Mahamsa: But that also is a farce, because they spent thirteen lakhs of rupees for construction of a temple in New York.
Gopala Krsna: New York.
Mahamsa: Yes.
Prabhupada: So New York, we have got so many temples. Let them here.
Mahamsa: They know. Anna(?) Rao, who is chairman.... [break]
Prabhupada: ...temples (indistinct) foreign countries, then let them (indistinct) We shall.... How?
Mahamsa: They are very political. They want to take charge of everything that they give money for.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Mahamsa: They want to take charge of everything that they give money for. Just like these temples which they have in New York, they will be in charge of them. They are the pujaris and things...
Prabhupada: That means they are constructing their own temple.
Mahamsa: Yes.
Acyutananda: That will be a Ganesa temple.
Tamala Krsna: Why Ganesa temple?
Mahamsa: Ganesa and other deities also.
Gopala Krsna: We know the people in charge of it. We went there for a program.
Prabhupada: That means all these foolish ideas.
Mahamsa: Actually, Prabhupada, it is only for.... They say it will ultimately be for the Hindu community there, for performing their marriages...
Prabhupada: So who, Hindu, will go?
Gopala Krsna: Actually, I have been to this Ganesa temple. We went there for a program once. It's such a small piece of land in Queens. No one's going to go there. When we were there...
Tamala Krsna: It's in Queens?
Harikesa: (laughs) In Flushing.
Gopala Krsna: ...we distributed about twenty of your big books in half an hour there.
Prabhupada: In New York?
Gopala Krsna: In that Ganesa temple. I've gone there with Yadubara and Visakha once.
Tamala Krsna: They already built it?
Gopala Krsna: No, they have a temporary one, but they're building a.... They've been building it for five years. They just have a layout of all...
Prabhupada: What is their cult, this Tirupati committee?
Acyutananda: Hinduism. Hinduism. Very.... No definition of that term now, Hinduism. Just like if we want to get on the radio, they'll say, "Well, there are so many minor sects. So if we give time for one, then everybody will want." But then, when we want some other aid, they say, "No, you're a majority group. We have to help the minority groups." So sometimes we are a minor sect and sometimes we are a majority.
Prabhupada: (laughs) All fools, rascals, mudhas. [break] The Tirupati is a Vaisnava temple, so they should encourage.... Vaisnavism means real religion. All other, bogus, cheating religions. That is.... Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo atra [SB 1.1.2]. Kaitava means cheating. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that. What is this land?
Indian man (1): The police superintendent's house.
Tamala Krsna: Police superintendent. They are using the Deity's money, Prabhupada, to maintain the universities. And in the universities they are teaching birth control and so many other things.
Prabhupada: So why don't you take them into court?
Tamala Krsna: Take them to court.
Yasodanandana: It's like fighting against the government.
Tamala Krsna: They are the court.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: They are the court.
Prabhupada: They are the court means?
Tamala Krsna: I mean to say, the same persons are the court. They're all one clique.
Gopala Krsna: The court has legalized abortion, for example, now.
Harikesa: In India?
Gopala Krsna: No, no. In America. In India also the government's encouraging.
Acyutananda: In India it's encouraged. They get a reward.
Tamala Krsna: The government pays.
Yasodanandana: They give a radio.
Acyutananda: They'll give you a prize, and the person who brings someone, he will get twenty-five rupees. And the doctor, after a month he gets a bonus.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. Now the government is thinking of having a policy by which if a person has more than two children he will not be promoted, he will not get raisesto discourage.
Acyutananda: The Mohammedan community has refused, and Christian. So they feel...
Prabhupada: So why not Hindus?
Acyutananda: Hindus are doing. So they feel in a few generations the Mohammedan, Christian community will outnumber the Hindu.
Tamala Krsna: Is that their plan?
Acyutananda: Yes. Even to the point that Puri Sankaracarya printed a book how everyone should have five children; all Hindus should have as many children as they want.
Prabhupada: [break] ...authorities, do they believe in Bhagavad-gita? Huh?
Indian man (1): Yes. Every day there you'll find Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Then why they are going against Bhagavad-gita?
Indian man (1): That I don't know. Every day they are preaching...
Prabhupada: Ask them that "What is the meaning of your reading Bhagavad-gita daily if you go against it?"
Indian man (1): But they are not going, but the preachers who comes there, they are doing it.
Prabhupada: What they are doing?
Acyutananda: They bring in preachers to preach Bhagavad-gita, but they themselves, they don't read Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: So preachers means third-class preachers. Anybody is allowed to speak, any nonsense? That is going on?
Devotee: How they are going against it, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: You read Bhagavad-gita? You do not know how they are going against?
Devotee: I'm not familiar with this.
Prabhupada: Then why do you say, "I read Bhagavad-gita?"
Devotee: I'm not familiar with Tirupati's practice.
Prabhupada: Tirupati is establishing Ganesa temple. That is against Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavan says that kamais tais tair hrta-jnana yajanty anya-devatah [Bg. 7.20]. The rascals who are very much lusty, lost their intelligence, they worship other demigods.
Acyutananda: The Ramanuja sannyasis have had all their authority taken away from them by these...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Acyutananda: All their authority in the temples has been taken away by the government committee.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Acyutananda: Just ritualistically in the morning the sannyasi comes and opens the door. He holds the key. We met him at Rangaji.
Prabhupada: Ramanujacarya sannyasis, they have no influence over them.
Tamala Krsna: [break] ...to me that the actual purpose of this Tirupati government committee is eventually to do away with all religious function.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: That's their real plan.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: How to take the money that's being donated.
Tamala Krsna: This is the beginning. They are making a show now, but eventually the plan will be to close all the temples.
Mahamsa: Nationalize all temples.
Harikesa: Not close, 'cause you can make a lot of money. It's easier than enacting taxes.
Mahamsa: Just like banks.
Tamala Krsna: No, but when they don't become profitable then they'll close it. That's the point. Milk 'em dry. Instead of the state or the government being the servant of the Deity, they are making the Deity the servant of the government.
Prabhupada: Yes. Money-earning servant.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. The tax collector.
Acyutananda: Just like they nationalize industries, they want to nationalize the temple, Krsna.
Harikesa: In Andhra Pradesh all the temples are nationalized?
Indian man (1): Yes, all temples.
Harikesa: What about ours?
Mahamsa: Well, they're not so strong in the other states. Andhra Pradesh and...
Gopala Krsna: But they'll copy it. I think they're starting in U.P. now. I read in the paper.
Acyutananda: Anywhere that there are big temples.
Gopala Krsna: U.P. has a lot of temples.
Tamala Krsna: So what about our temples?
Gopala Krsna: Yes, they will gradually try.
Prabhupada: So you make this American property.
Tamala Krsna: Oh. Make it American property.
Harikesa: How about English?
Prabhupada: Our society is registered in America.
Gopala Krsna: In India presently we are registered in Bombay and all the other centers are branch offices. That's why in Hyderabad they haven't touched us. In Maharastra.... I think Maharastra will be the last state to do something of this type.
Tamala Krsna: But then when it does it, what will you do?
Gopala Krsna: We'll try our best to escape it, but if there's...
Tamala Krsna: We should try to make some provision now if possible.
Mahamsa: If the government wants to do that, you can't do anything.
Gopala Krsna: But we are changing.... We are making our constitution look like a welfare society, so this way we may not fall under this.
Acyutananda: We have to preach to them so that they understand the value of this movement.
Prabhupada: [break] Europeans, they are coming here not for religion, but they are coming for the Krsna culture. You have to make that. Religion they have already got, Christian. Why they should come?
Mahamsa: They will say that this Krsna culture is Hinduism.
Prabhupada: Then he's a rascal. Prove it in the court. Krsna is not Hinduism. Never.... Is there anything in the Bhagavad-gita that Krsna says, "I am for the Hindus or for the Indians"?
Acyutananda: The Hindu law is so elastic, anyone who calls himself a Hindu or who practices any branch...
Mahamsa: Or puts on tilaka.
Acyutananda: Puts on tilaka, he may have the lowest character or the highest standard, anyone, he will be all considered a Hindu.
Prabhupada: So this should be taken to court, on the Supreme Court.
Harikesa: But if there is no definition of Hindu, how can you prove...
Prabhupada: There is no Hindu. It is not.... Therefore we are not Hindu.
Acyutananda: Well, they'll say, "This is our definition. This is what we say a Hindu is."
Prabhupada: Huh?
Acyutananda: The court says, "This is what we say a Hindu is. So you're Hindus."
Prabhupada: No, no. And court can say anything, but then why not put it into the judgment of many judges?
Harikesa: Then we have to establish what is Hinduism...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: ...and what is Krsna consciousness.
Acyutananda: It is already established.
Prabhupada: You can define anything. That does not mean that your definition is perfect. Actually we have to.... Who...? Suppose Hindu. So who is not accepting Bhagavad-gita? But where is...? In the Bhagavad-gita where is the mention of "Hindu"? Hm? Krsna says that "I am the father of all living entities." So why do they say that this is Hindusim?
Acyutananda: "Well, all religions say that they are the best. Jesus Christ says, 'Everyone who comes to me, they will get the grace of God.' So the same thing. But still they are Christians and you are Hindus."
Prabhupada: So this cannot stay in the court. Krsna's instruction is not for the Hindus. Nowhere it is mentioned.
Tamala Krsna: The word "Hindu" doesn't appear in the Vedas anywhere.
Acyutananda: Then why do you use in the Krsna consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.
Prabhupada: No, this is not Hinduism. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyasi, but you are not Indian.
Acyutananda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He's not British either.
Prabhupada: No, we are clearly stating Krsna consciousness.
Harikesa: Yes, but Krsna is a Hindu god.
Prabhupada: That is your definition. Krsna doesn't say.
Harikesa: But my definition counts 'cause I'm in charge.
Prabhupada: You can do any nonsense. That is.... Therefore you have to be taken to the court, that "How you can..."
Tamala Krsna: But they are the court.
Prabhupada: "...talk like nonsense and do like nonsense? Then anyone can do any nonsense thing? Then who will control you?"
Harikesa: That's the point.
Mahamsa: The chief justice himself was saying like that in Madras. Their opinion will come in their favor.
Prabhupada: No, they can give opinion, but there is supreme court. There is international court. We shall go...
Mahamsa: International court?
Gopala Krsna: That's only for disputes between countries, international court.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is country"We are American. They are forcing us to become a Hindu." This is between country. You have to tackle with intelligence.
Mahamsa: It's become a world issue.
Acyutananda: In most books about Hinduism they describe that Hinduism is a cult where they worship many gods and ultimately God is formless.
Prabhupada: No.
Acyutananda: So we are against that. Then we are not Hindus even philosophically according to that.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are against all so-called cheating religion. The Hinduism is also a cheating religion. We are preaching Bhagavata, and Bhagavata beginning that "We have kicked out all cheating religion." What is cheating religion? That one has to understand. And Bhagavata says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: [SB 6.3.19] "Religion means the order given by God." If you do not know who is God, "imperson," then where is your religion? We have to tackle things.
Gopala Krsna: They will consult all the standard dictionaries about Krsna's definition and all the...
Prabhupada: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching. You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No. We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Acyutananda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, "I am for all," but there is Christianity.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is a fact. Either God or God's representative, He is for everyone. Suhrdam sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 5.29]. That is the definition of sadhu. Titiksavah karunikah suhrdam sarva-bhutanam [SB 3.25.21]. A saintly person..., as God is for everyone, a saintly person is for everyone. Why he should be for Hindu or Muslim or Christian? That is the definition of saintly person. Suhrdah. Suhrdah means well-wisher. So either Christ or any Vaisnava, he is well-wisher for everyone. [break] ...suhrdah sarva-bhutanam. We are preaching all over the world and they are appreciating.
Harikesa: So many others have preached Hinduism but have no result.
Prabhupada: No result. Why they should become Hindu?
Acyutananda: That sign is there, "Swami Vivekananda, the Hindu monk."
Prabhupada: But who cares for Ramakrishna Mission? Hindu monk, but who cares for the Ramakrishna Mission? For the last eighty-five years they are working. How many Hindus they have made? Simply bogus propaganda. They advertise that "We have made all Americans..." But where the Americans? They picked up two American ladies, that's all. Where is the Hindu sadhus eating meat?
Acyutananda: Here it says, "Hare Krsna Babu nagar."
Prabhupada: Huh?
Gopala Krsna: It says "Hare Krsna nagar atar(?)" in the front also.
Tamala Krsna: Who is that? [break]
Indian man (1): That is Hare Krsna land. This is Hare Krsna Babu.
Prabhupada: Babu? Babu means?
Indian man (1): It's a name of the...
Prabhupada: Foreign devotees, they are joining this movement not because it is a Hindu culture. They take it as a real spiritual culture. Otherwise why, for the last hundred, two hundred years, the Hindu sannyasis, yogis, were going there? Who did accept it? Did anybody? The Ramakrishna Mission, Hindu monk, within the eighty-five years, how many Hindus they have made? You can count maybe a dozen only. Huh? Did they make any Hindus, European, American young boys? And it is the Hindu custom that sannyasis eat meat?
Tamala Krsna: Drink wine.
Prabhupada: Drink wine.
Tamala Krsna: And have women.
Prabhupada: [break] ...drinking wine and eating meat, the next stage is illicit sex. Is that the business of the Hindu monk? There are sampradayas, Ramanuja sampradaya, Sankara sampradaya. But where the Hindu monk drinks and eats meat? They have introduced it. Is that Hinduism?
Prabhupada: Nowadays everyone has become impersonal.
Prabhupada: [break] ...pure Vaisnava. What is that?
Indian man (1): House of a life member.
Prabhupada: Oh. [break] ...take to our principles, these things will be automatically be finished. Na ca daivat param balam.
Vasughosa: [break] In Indonesia the government has a Hindu-Buddha department.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Vasughosa: Hinduism department in Indonesia. So they've divided the land..., you know, the different religions into different departments, and they have one man who studied in Benares. He's in charge of the whole country for Hinduism and Buddhism.
Prabhupada: So why they do not allow our?
Vasughosa: No, actually they allow us. They allow our society, but it's such a corrupt country that at any moment they could kick us out if they want. They have no principle except money.
Prabhupada: Just like Africa.
Vasughosa: Yes. But the man seems to be a little intelligent, a little knowledgeable. I met him. He seems to be a little.... [break] They try to renovate temples there. They are very old temples like in India and they have...
Prabhupada: [break] ...they do not give for so-called religion, it is better. They are not spoiling the money.
Acyutananda: The head of that Visva-Hindu went to Delhi to get tax exemption. So they said, "You drop the name Hindu." They said, "No, we will never drop the name Hindu. Even if you don't give us tax exemption, we will be without the tax exempt but we will never give up our name Hindu."
Prabhupada: [break] Whatever whimsically you make your law, that is law. Actually they are not fighting. Hindu law means Manu-samhita. So who is pressing them that "We don't require any law except this"? And where is that Hindu, strong Hindu? Hindu means Manu-samhita. [break] ...manave prahur. This Manu. Original instruction is coming from Manu. [break] ...the word Manu, the word manava has come. Just like he has started that manava-dharma. Manava-dharma means Manu. That he does not know. From Manu, manava has come, just like from sadhu, sadhava has come. They do not know even grammar. These leaders, they do not know even grammar. [break] ...chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam.
Mahamsa: Yes.
Harikesa: If the government is giving them free homes and we're giving them free prasadam, why should they work?
Prabhupada: They should work for Krsna.
Harikesa: But there is one economist. I think you've quoted him, John Kenneth Galbraith. He says that if there's no.... If somebody is supplied with a place to sleep and something to eat, why should he work? That he won't work unless there is some motivation. If he's forced to work, he will work. Otherwise he won't work.
Prabhupada: No. Your preaching is not meant for creating a lazy class of men. You have to engage them in Krsna consciousness business. That is preaching.
Mahamsa: Then you feed them prasadam.
Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna and then give him prasadam. He will be automatically purified, and offer himself for service.
Harikesa: So they have to chant first.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Acyutananda: Then they will say, "Well, you are proselytizing by rice."
Prabhupada: I am not proselytizing. I am bringing him...
Acyutananda: Unless they take to your religion...
Prabhupada: ...to his original consciousness.
Acyutananda: Unless they follow you, then you won't feed them. You are starving them until they...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. We shall go on. Chanting will also go on. Both things.
Acyutananda: That was the article of the CARE, I think. They will give food, but you cannot use it to proselytize.
Prabhupada: No, we give krsna-prasadam, not food.
Acyutananda: Like in Guntur, in a Christian hospital, in the maternity ward they would not release the baby to the parents until they converted to Christianity.
Harikesa: Where?
Acyutananda: In Guntur. So they did it to one brahmana family, and he brought it to the court because he was more orthodox, and they were.... Only one or two articles came in the newspaper. It was hushed up.
Harikesa: It takes ten years for the court to decide.
Acyutananda: Well, immediately the police ordered that it had to be released. Or they put.... Just like the Mohammedan water, they put some bread in a well in a place like this, and then they can say, "You are all Christian now because you have drunk the bread that we have put there."
Prabhupada: They are doing like that here?
Acyutananda: Yes. In Europe, when Christianity first came to Constantine, the priests would stay in the top of a river, and they marched an army through the river, and the priest put the holy water, and when the army came on the other side they said, "Now you've all been baptized. You're all Christians." Mass conversion. [break] ...Hindu groups are mixing Hinduism and Indian nationality, it's fascism. That was also the government's...
Acyutananda: Fascism.
Acyutananda: The Hindu groups. That was the point that enraged the government. The same panditas with the prayascitta, they don't like the Mohammedans, they don't like the Christians. They say, "You have created Pakistan, so all the Mohammedans should go there. This is Hindustan."
Prabhupada: Murvi(?) meat here?
Indian man (1): Not everyone did.
Prabhupada: Mostly.
Indian man (1): Mostly. Nowadays it is a fashion to eat when the brahmanas take in a house.
Prabhupada: Taking?
Indian man (1): Yes, they take it.
Tamala Krsna: The brahmanas?
Indian man (1): Yes, most of them. [break]
Prabhupada: ...sambhava. Where is brahmana? All sudra.
Indian man (1): But according to.... [break]
Prabhupada: ...not vegetarian. We are neither nonvegetarian. We eat krsna-prasadam. Krsna says, "Give me this food." Patram puspam phalam toyam [Bg. 9.26]. So we offer Him, and then we eat it, so we have nothing to do with vegetarian and nonvegetarian. If Krsna says that, "You give Me flesh," then we can eat flesh also. But Krsna does not say that.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? I have heard one person say that patram puspam phalam toyam doesn't include other things. There are many other things that we offer Krsna besides patram puspam phalam toyam.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: So similarly, why can't we offer meat? He doesn't say, "Don't offer me meat."
Prabhupada: Hm. Hm?
Tamala Krsna: In the Bhagavad-gita it doesn't say you can't offer Krsna meat.
Prabhupada: So if you like, you can do that.
Tamala Krsna: I don't want to.
Prabhupada: (chuckles) What directly He says, you have to take. And if you interpret, that can be interpreted.
Acyutananda: They have rewritten the Bible, "Thou shalt not murder."
Prabhupada: [break] ...can be used as paper weight. (laughter) [break] ...use anything for Krsna.
Yasodanandana: ...temples they are worshiping this Dvaraka-sila with the salagrama-sila.
Prabhupada: That's all right, but we have no such instruction. (end)

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