Room Conversation – August 17, 1976, Hyderabad

You'll not find anyone who is more fallen than me

[much background noise]

Harikesa: Speak loudly.

Hari-sauri: It's very noisy.

Mahamsa: This is Dr. Ghosh.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh. Please sit down.]

Mahamsa: This is Mr. Puranmal Agarwal, one of our very close friends in Hyderabad. He's a very close friend in Hyderabad.

Prabhupada: I think I have seen you.

Mahamsa: Oh, yes, yes.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are Dr. Ghosh.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I am Dr. Ghosh. I lived in Europe for a long time. Then by the order of guru we have established a village in a jungle on top of a hill. I have been residing there for twenty-eight years now. I am aware of you and your mission. So for your cause there is a big and famous place on top of the hill which he has already seen, Kodaikanal. It is near Kodaikanal. It's a wonderful spot.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Goregaon?]

Mahamsa: Kodaikanal.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Within fifty kilometer in the dense forest, we are establishing a village. There we need some kind of spiritual cultivation. So if you kindly visit and bless that place with your feetdust then at least ten thousand people will be benefitted.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I must go. Certainly I will go.]

Mahamsa: Beautiful place.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You come….I have created a place for all these devotees. They are working hard in this heat. That place is very cool. Everspring. There are no crows. No snakes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How far is it from here?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Very near from here. Actually I have been waiting for you here since eight days.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh. That's good.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Laughs] [Transl. Eight days. He knows it. Eight days I have been waiting. Just to have your darsana…I am known all over the world.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is your full name?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Hiranmaya Ghoshsingh. We belong to Jessore. My father and grandfather were kings of Jessore. That is all gone now.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Singh?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Therefore the word 'singh' is added to the surname of the eldest son of the family. And we are ksatriya. I lived in England for a long time. I started living there from the age of seventeen and returned only after India's independence.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Where were you exactly?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Mostly I was in France. I completed my M.D. from France and Viena. I had very good reputation in Europe. When our country got independence, at that time Sri Aurobindo was our guide. Jawaharlal Nehru invited me to come back. I saw here everything is a mess. Aurobindo advised me not to get involved in all that. "Your job is in the jungle with the poor." I searched and found a jungle where I have been residing last twenty-eight years now. I am 77 years old.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. When Gandhi's assistants were imprisoned, they approached Aurobindo Ghosh many times to join, but he refused.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Yes. We hold hari-sahkirtana there. And my wife is a world famous singer. We are just waiting to have your feetdust there.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As soon as you call us we will go there.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I am ready to take you there in one jump like Hanuman.] [laughs]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Let me stay here 5/7 days...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Very near from here. Any day you want to… Look, you know I am waiting here for you since ten days. Last night I tried, but it was too crowded.]

Prabhupada: After this function you can go.

Mahamsa: Yes.

Dr. Ghosh: And he knows about Kodaikanal. It's a very wonderful place.

Prabhupada: I shall be very glad.

Mahamsa: There are very, very big schools there.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You know what will happen then? If it comes from your mouth, I think the whole public will start to dance. Like that dancing and singing go on in our house whole day. You just come and see. We are poor fellows. We don't mind. We live in mud house.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not poorer than me? I started this movement with forty rupees only.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. So what? I know. I know everything. I have been following you from many years. From 1966 my mind is fixed at your feet. Do not worry about all that. Kindly know me as your staunch devotee.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The secret of this is,

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I can't hear properly nowadays. Mind you I am 77 years old. I am only 4 years younger than you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You look quite healthy.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I have been waiting to serve you.]

Prabhupada: He is 77….

Mahamsa: Yes.

Prabhupada: …And I am 80.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Everyone knows me. In India...]

Prabhupada: He looks like 60.

Mahamsa: I told him like that Srila Prabhupada.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. To be frank my treatment works wonderfully. These people here, they know it. Just by a little service of mine people get cured of deadly diseases. People throng at my place. So if I am blessed by your little feetdust…That's why I don't go out of station. But the moment I heard you are coming I came here and waiting for you. I don't leave your company.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are so kind.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. They are all my patients. They know me well. I told them, don't move me from here until Prabhupada comes. So on 29th …You please tell them when you will go so that we can make all arrangements.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Whenever they tell me I will go.] [to Mahamsa: We want Svamijis lotus feet…You know how the place is. Just like heaven.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You will feel like Gokula.]

Prabhupada: I shall go.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. We are about ten thousand poor people living there. If you kindly bless us with your feetdust then we will more enthusiastically chant and dance.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mahaprabhu is patita pavana: the deliverer of the fallen.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Patita-pavana.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Narottama Dasa Thakura's song, patita-pavana hetu tava avatara.] [Prarthana 39 text 2]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. That's all. You were saying yesterday to do good to others, that's what we have been doing last 28 years.]

Prabhupada: Mo-sama patita prabhu na paibe ara [Prarthana 39]. This is the appeal made by Narottama dasa Thakura: "My Lord, Your incarnation is for delivering the fallen souls, and You'll not find anyone who is more fallen than me. Therefore my claim is first."

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Absolutely true. When I first went there I didn't know the local language. Mostly tribals. The Britishers called them criminal tribals. They steal cows, like monkeys they eat fruits hanging in the trees. And I lived among them for 28 years now. See, I have got five schools, high schools. Now they are facing unemployment problem very badly. Although they work hard…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No, they can... So much land is there they can...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Land I have purchased gradually.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's what I am saying. They can cultivate land, produce their own cloth, keep their own cows.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Everything is there. You please come once and I will show you everything. You will be surprised. You will be very happy. What you want us to do that we are already doing.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All right.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Just be with us once. We are very poor. We have no capacity to bring you there. Still we will carry you there on our shoulders.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How is he who is favoured by the Supreme Lord poor?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. We are favoured otherwise I would not have met you. My only wish to God before my death was that kindly let me meet Srila Prabhupada. Last night, whole day and in the evening I was thinking about you. I came here and saw ...I was sitting right here only. You ask him. I was right here. I have an earnest desire that I will serve you. Hence I have arranged baby oil etc for you. I will make you feel strong. Look, I have enough strength now, more than you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. You are healthy. Your health is just like...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. They know how I revived them. Almost everyone from here knows me. I told them that whenever Prabhupada comes…They come to my place. I told them when Prabhupada comes I will go and sit there. Last ten years I have been following you. I can tell you everything what you did on a day to day basis. Three among us buy all of your books. So, three copies each of your books are supplied to us.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They read.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Our library has expanded too much. You come once and instruct us.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. I will go.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. If you come to the jungle, the jungle will become mahgal: auspicious.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And since your wife is a talented woman...]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You will be surprised. If you hear Srimad Bhagavatam from her mouth… We follow Jayadeva's Sanskrit. You will love it. I have it here, but the recording was not so good. We will keep you busy whole day. You simply watch our dance. We have got our dance school. It is Caitanya Mahaprabhu who first started this dancing. Before Caitanya Mahaprabhu nobody else used to dance.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Drama also. He is the first beginner of dramatic play.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. She was a government scholar. She has been to Russia and other places. The government sends her abroad. Big, big people like the queen of Bulgaria, Krusev, queen Elizabath, she performs in front of them to demonstrate the art of dancing. We are fond of dancing and singing. That is bhakti. If you hear Sanskrit from our people, I am sure you haven't heard such clear pronounciation of Sanskrit before. We specially did that for Europe, America. Our students come from Germany, Sweden. So you kindly come once save us by your feetdust.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Certainly I will go.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Just by your feetdust once we will march forward. You give permission. You just tell them.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. How many children do you have?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. One son of mine is in England. He works in B.B.C. Broadcasting. He has his own feature program called "A question of faith." He too is a devotee. Every Sunday morning at 10:30 he conducts a TV program in B.B.C. He lives there.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He is settled there only.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Yes. He is a sannyasi. He didn't marry nor is likely to. My wife... When my hands and legs were broken, I had a big accident. I don't have have hands and legs. I am sitting here with artificial iron-hands and legs. I was on my way to visit a patient in the hospital. Suddenly a vehicle pushed me from behind and I fell on the ground. All God's will. At that time she comes from Germany. She is not German. She is Indian. She was sent to Germany by Indian government to teach Bharatnatyam dance. Since then she lives with me. She said "I will not leave you alone any more because you don't have hands and legs."

So she helps me run my little organization. We work whole day for the benefit of poor people. I started this with 123 people in 1948 and now we are more than 10,000 in numbers. We have 5 schools. She has her own school in which 55 foreign students learn. On the whole we are very busy all the time. I am also getting old. Let it be. But as soon as I heard Prabhupada is coming then I said nobody can stop me now. I wrote her that you are going to come there. I was going to bring her here and have her perform before you. Our whole set up is wonderful. Based on Jayadeva's eight Sanskrit verses. Please come once and hear it. Since we are doing so much service for you, this much mercy you have to bestow on us. Kindly bless our place with your feetdust.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sure.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You fix the date and I will arrange everything.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They will do and I will go.] [aside:] You fix up date.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I have served big, big persons like Jawaharlal Nehru and others. They come to my house. Even Indira Gandhi visited my house and accepted my service. And here I am eagerly waiting for your feetdust. You have to allow me to have your feetdust. You will be surprised to see our programs.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No need to tell further.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I will go back day after tomorrow after celebrating Janmastami tomorrow. Give me half an hour only. I wish to serve you a little. Your this Rolls Royce body worked for a long time and it needs little servicing. You don't require. But we need you. You see, if God gives me a vehicle and if I don't do any servicing, that is also a sin. So if you give permission... Not to worry at all. You just lie down for a while and by God's mercy you will see how nice you will feel. I have been doing this work for last 50 years. 50 years.

I completed my M.D. in 1947, I mean 1927. First M.D. The second M.D I did in 1931 in Viena. Since then I have been doing this service for 50 years now. They all come to me. Indira Gandhi and others. I don't go to them. They come to our place. Our treatment is Osteopathy, dealing with bones, muscles, nerves etc. We try to relax these things and as a result blood pressure and problems like that go away.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Since you have got close relationship with Indira Gandhi, I think, it's confidential though, that the system of democracy is of no use. The way she is ruling, "Her order is final" that we agree, but you must have people's confidence.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. That's the most important thing.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What you said…Just like these boys and girls of my whole institution, whatever I will say they will do. If I tell them to die, they will die. Why are they accepting my dictatorship? They have full confidence that "He is our Gurudeva, he is perfect, whatever he says is right."]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. He is right.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He is right.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. That is true. I also think what you are saying is fact.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If that is true then there will be success. Otherwise internal conflict will spoil everything. And to be like that one has to cultivate devotional service to the Supreme Lord.

You are familiar with Sanskrit. Sarvair gunais tatra samasate suraḥ. Devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead will bring all success. Otherwise there will be grudges and conflicts.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I know that. You will find bhakti in our place. Otherwise, how for 28 years we are living in that jungle along with elephants, ferocious animals and huge pythons? We have no fear. We don't know anybody. It is only because of guru's order that, you go there and serve the poor. You will see how big, big industries we are building for hand-made items like spinning-wheels.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Have industry only for handicrafts. Not many machines.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Not machines. Still, you see, we have reached to such a time...]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's all right.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Not using many machines. But if there is no power the cloth weaving mill won't work. The power station doesn't supply enough. That means we have to make our own power station. If you see... We use cow dung only.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Self help.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. We use cow dung gas for everything. Gradually though. We are not a huge organization. But we have no choice also.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The thing is that] our life should be simplified. We shall not unnecesarily suffer.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Absolutely right. No complication. We are very simple. We build our houses. Wonderful. People say they are good. Very simple. Now we are establishing a village...]

Prabhupada: Yuktahara-viharasya.

Dr. Ghosh: Minimum. But with dignity. [Transl. You understand?]

Prabhupada:

yuktahara-viharasya
yukta-cestasya karmasu
yukta-svapnavabodhasya
yogo bhavati
[Bg 6.17]

Find out this verse.

Devotee: Yukta-cestasya karmana?

Prabhupada: Where is Bhagavad-gita?

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. I have got all your books. So you do one thing…I will grab hold of your feet and wait here. I won't move. If you have a spare one hour then I brought the purest baby oil from America, for new born babies, I can apply on you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is it made from?]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You will see. I am quite expert in this. You will understand. Besides, I would like to serve you at least once before I die. You see, without associates none can keep you alive. We are all your associates.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Kindly keep me alive. Let me work for some more time.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Mahaprabhu Caitanya was always surrounded by associates. We have to pray to Him for your well being. Look, you are 10 inch pipe and we are 1 inch pipe. If God sends you elsewhere, we, the associates, have to regulate and try to keep you here. Is it not? Is it correct? You think that way. I know. You have nothing to worry.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Mahaprabhu's associates were everything to Him. Krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam sahgopahgastra-parsadam.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Parsada. That's it. I loved it.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

sahgopahgastra-parsadam
yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair
yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ
[SB 11.5.32]

We worship the Lord's associates.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You didn't see or think of yourself who you are? We know who you actually are. The associates can recognize. You said, "Have faith." If I break my head nobody will believe me. And if you say, believe me, or die, they will die. So they are all your associates. If you tell me to die here, I will die. But not because you ask me to. We are your associates. We have to sacrifice our lives for you. Otherwise humanity has no value.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sa parsada. The Supreme Lord is worshiped along with His associates.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Although I am hard of hearing, I am hearing everything what you speak.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Just like here we see the Supreme Lord as Gopala. Gopala.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Gopala. Cow.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He who maintains cows. Associate. To become the Lord's cows….Unless one is an associate one cannot become. You see how the Lord is embracing the cow. Is that an ordinary calf?] Do you think they are ordinary calves?

Mahamsa: To be embraced by Krsna.

Prabhupada: They are associates. They are associating with Lord as calf, as cow. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis tabhir ya eva nija-rūpataya kalabhiḥ [Bs 5.37]. Nija-rūpa.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. About beauty it is said "janama avadhi hama rūpa niharinu nayana na tirapita bhela." I saw the Lord whole life, but my eyes never became satiated. This is the greatness of His beauty. "lakh lakh yuga hiye hiye rakhanu tabu hiye juḍana na bhela." He is the object of vision. There is none else worth of my vision. We are all associates, either close or distant.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All belongs to Him.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. All. Birth after birth we are...]

Prabhupada: In Vrndavana, the calves, the cows, the trees, the land, the water-everyone, ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhiḥ. That is expansion of Krsna's spiritual energy. Cit-sakti. There are three energies: spiritual, material and marginal. So Vrndavana affairs means expansion of Krsna's spiritual energy. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa. Sac-cid-ananda. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa, mellow. Everyone is trying to relish some mellow. Here in this material world we get family to taste some mellows.

One kind of mellow is wife, one kind of mellow are children, one kind of mellow is the servants, one kind of mellow is the friends, one kind of mellow is the properties. They are all mellows, rasa. Unless there is some taste, why one should be hankering after all these things? Why one is hankering after some woman or some man or some friends or for children? One who has got no children, he's hankering after some child. He's expecting, "When I shall get a child?" The rasa. There is husband-wife rasa, but there is no rasa of the child. Therefore they are praying, "When we shall get a child?" So there is another rasa. So raso vai saḥ. He is the reservoir of rasas. So if we derive all the rasas from the Supreme, because He is the reservoir of rasas...

Mahamsa: Akhila-rasamrta-sindhu.

Prabhupada: Akhila-rasamrta, yes. Very nice. Akhila-rasamrta-sindhu. So you can have all the rasas, and that is the origin of bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. In bhakti, that rasa, you become in the ocean of rasa. You're hankering after rasa. There is a Vedic injunction, raso vai saḥ labdhvanandi bhavanti. One who has got the rasa, labdhvanandi, then he gets the real ananda. That ananda-cinmaya-rasa expansion is Krsna's calves, cows, gopi friends, cowherd boy friends, Nanda, Yasodamayi, so many. So to be Krsna conscious means to participate with these rasas. It is not dry. It is not dry, like, simply so 'ham, so'ham, finished. So 'ham, they do not know the meaning. So 'ham means I belong to the same rasa. I also eligible to enjoy the same rasa what Krsna is...

[break] ...and the calves, the cows are enjoying the rasa as predominated. Just like husband and wife, they are enjoying, both. But one is enjoying as the husband, predominator. The husband is forcefully dragging the wife. She's also... While she is dragged by force, she enjoys. That is another rasa. But there is rasa. Combined together it becomes rasa. Similarly, Krsna does not enjoy this material. This material rasa is the perverted reflection of that cinmaya-rasa. So we have to get ourselves nil of all these material rasas, and we have to be situated in the cinmaya. Then our..., anandamayo 'bhyasat [Vedanta-sūtra 1.1.12].

Then our life is perfect. This is Krsna consciousness. Rasa is there. Here perverted reflection. The perverted reflection... My Guru Maharaja used to say to taste milk in white, what is called, lime water. White lime water, it looks like milk. But it is not milk. It is different thing. Similarly, we are trying to taste the rasa of milk in lime water. Therefore we are baffled.

Dr. Ghosh: That is true. Whole universe is rasa. Even in Mars they're trying to find humidity. What is humidity, rasa. Everything is moving on the rasa only. We are floating on rasa.

Prabhupada: There are vast aim of understanding this Krsna consciousness, it is not a sentiment. It is a great science, great science. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? If it was a thing.

Dr. Ghosh: Nothing happens in dryness.

Prabhupada: Why people are accepting our books so much? You'll be surprised, we are selling book to the extent of six lakhs of rupees per day. Daily. Daily we are selling six lakhs of rupees' worth all over the world. So people think philosophy, religion, dry subject matter. If it was dry subject matter, how they could purchase so many books? It is ananda-cinmaya-rasa. They are getting for the first time, here is real ananda.

Therefore they are appreciating. Everyone, learned circle, they are giving appreciation. In scholarly circles. So, there was no such literature. It is the first time. Srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam vaisnavanam... [SB 12.13.18]. So unless they're really relishing some rasa, how they are purchasing? This is the first distribution of ananda-cinmaya-rasa throughout the whole world, this Krsna consciousness movement. So I am very happy that you are also very intelligent person. Let us join together; we shall raise...

Dr. Ghosh: We can consult and fix a date, what suits Prabhupada best, then I will arrange for the rest at that end.

Mahamsa: When are you leaving Hyderabad?

Dr. Ghosh: I'm leaving just after... You see, I was leaving long ago, but he was coming. So I will leave 19th morning plane. That is the day after the Janmastami tomorrow. Night, whatever festivity, I'll be here. I think there will be some sahkirtana also. After that, early morning, I'll catch the plane and go up to Madras, and there I shall fly again to Madurai. It is not very far, as you are thinking, but Kodaikanal is a… [Transl. The best place in the world climatologically. I wish to hand over whatever I have got at your lotus feet and only sometimes I will visit that place to see what they are doing and] ...to recharge. Because they are recharging the battery of the urban line. But they also need a recharging their battery in a nice cosmic place.

Prabhupada: [Transl. This our rasa,] our rasa, it can be tasted by the topmost intellectual man, and it can be tasted by the lowest...

Dr. Ghosh: No intellect at all. I know that.

Prabhupada: But why? Because this intellect, highest or lowest, that is in relationship with the body. But it is beyond the body. It is not... Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhūyaya kalpate [Bg 14.26]. It is beyond the three gunas. The body is of the material gunas-sattva, rajas, tamas. One man is good man, one man is passionate, one is foolish. Guna. Karanam guna-sahgo'sya. Purusaḥ prakrti-stho hi bhunjante gunan [Bg 13.22]? [aside:] Find out this. Purusaḥ prakrti-stho hi bhunjante.... Beginning with purusaḥ. Everything is explained, Bhagavad-gita.

Dr. Ghosh: Your Srimad-Bhagavatam is matchless. We are reading and re-reading, and every time we find much more, you see? Terrific. And you have put the simplest method-"as it is," as you say. Why complicate, commentary this... That is why... You know, we can be safely called intellectuals. But, you know, we are tired of it. Tired. We cannot find anything. Neti neti vicara te patra patra... Impossible. Then what do you get out of the life? The joy, rasa [Transl. that you have just mentioned.] And that is the main substance. To get it you cannot get neti neti [Transl. Just like Mahaprabhu relished in Navadvipa]...

Prabhupada: Purusaḥ prakrti-stho hi [Bg 13.22]. [aside:] Find out. Purusaḥ. Why you cannot find this verse? What you are...

Mahamsa: Purusaḥ prakrti, bhunjante...

Prabhupada: Tad gunan. Purusaḥ prakrti-stho hi. You did not find?

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. This your] Bhagavatam series is three volume.

Prabhupada: Caitanya-caritamrta. Seventeen volumes. Seventeen.

Dr. Ghosh: I have only three. Can I..., is there any set available? I would like to buy the rest. Srimad Bhagavatam is three volumes?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Prabhupada: Purusa, the living entity, he is now within the material energy. Prakrti-sthaḥ. Purusaḥ prakrti-stho...

Mahamsa: Purusaḥ prakrti-stho hi.

Prabhupada: Stho hi.

Mahamsa: Bhuhkte prakrti-jan gunan.

Prabhupada: On account of his being in touch with the material energy, he has to suffer or enjoy the modes of material nature. Modes of material nature. And because, just like in your medical science one is suffering from a certain type of disease on account of his being infected by the similar verus or..., what is called?

Mahamsa: Virus.

Prabhupada: Virus.

Dr. Ghosh: Virus. [Transl. Animatic. I have read your theory.] Now we know even the inanimate is animate, but by virology only it is changing. All the unanimate subject is slowly being transformed into animate. We are all convinced the whole process is the same. It's a terrific science now, virology. Latest, we have discovered. I am also working on virology quite a bit for all the virus disease and all. And we can eliminate them by only vacuum. My whole cure, they call it miracle and all this nonsense, it is only creating a vacuum which automatically takes away.

Prabhupada: This virology will be complete...

Dr. Ghosh: When we accept this.

Prabhupada: ...when you accept this.

Dr. Ghosh: I know. [laughs] And I have accepted long ago. Because I felt, as a sincere worker, medicine doesn't interest me. What interests me is the cure. My profession is to cure, not to study the medicines. That is the cure.

Prabhupada: Here it is very clearly stated that karanam guna-sahgo 'sya [Bg 13.22]. The virology, infection, karanam, that is the karanam. Karanam guna-sahgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu. Why there are varieties of life? One is very intelligent...

Dr. Ghosh: And also in your Vedic hymns: tamasa bahurūpena vestitaḥ karmahetuna antasahga bhavante ete sukha duḥkha samanvitaḥ.

Prabhupada: Same thing.

Dr. Ghosh: Same thing, no? Everything has life. Only it is in transformation by that formula, it is inanimate to animate. That is what is happening all around us.

Prabhupada: So, if from... Just like medical science... It is also a medical science. Bhavausadhi. It is... Ausadhi means medical science. This is bhavausadhi. By this treatment one becomes relieved from the material disease. Bhavausadhi. Bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. But the medicine is so nice that it is pleasing to the ear and to the heart. The medicine pleasing to the ear? What is that.

Dr. Ghosh: That is nama: the holy name.

Mahamsa: Hari-nama.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna. You just come to our place. There we sing the holy name in typical Bengali tunes. We have recorded that. We will sing for you. You will be very happy. We have one Svamiji there named Mohanananda. He lives in Deoghar. He sometimes comes and we together record our chanting. And my wife is busy whole day in dancing for God. You will really love it. You will reach there in no time. You will come in Samadhi: trance. Let us go. Give them order.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Any date they fix up.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Order them.] We decide a date, and take... Not too... We have no means for having too many people, but about dozen people, or ten people can come. And they will have all facility. We can arrange a station wagon and everything there. You have to come up to Kodaikanal Road Station. And if you like we shall arrange for your departure from Madras. [Transl. You leave from Madras. You also come, no?] He will come with you. [Transl. You come along with Prabhupada.] He will accompany you all the way. [Transl. I will inform Mr. Khorana. You both bring him carefully. Bring him too. So, I take your leave. I won't disturb you any more. I will render some service to you once you are there.] When you come there. [Transl. Here it is too much commotion.] I'll get everything ready. It is settled you are coming at there earliest. [Transl. You tell the date.]

Prabhupada: Yes. When they'll make program, conveniently, I shall go.

Dr. Ghosh: I'm leaving on 29th morning. If you can give me a word by tomorrow evening. Not 29th; 19th. Today is 17th.

Prabhupada: They cannot decide so soon.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. After Janmastami.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. After Janmastami.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You have got Vyasa-pūja also.]

Prabhupada: Another program is that we are going that side during November-December. Whether that would…

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. You will go towards Kanyakumari or something?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Okay. Then let us go. We will go with you. It is near our house.]

Prabhupada: So we have to see.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Come to Palni. Palni temple is very nice. Kumar.]

[indistinct background comments by devotees]

Prabhupada: He also said, plead like him.

Mahamsa: Yes, I have to take little time.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Please come in. Let him sit.

Gurukrpa: Jaya. Prabhupada ki jaya.

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. So we take your leave. Now your people have come.]

Prabhupada: Give them little prasadam. [Transl. Take little prasada.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. Okay. Kindly instruct them to fix a date.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. As soon as they do I will come.]

Dr. Ghosh: [Transl. So Mahamsaji, fix up a date…]

Indian guest: Jaya Svamiji. I am from Bangalore. Thank you very much.

Gurukrpa: He's a life member from Bangalore. He was one of our first members in South India.

Prabhupada: I think I saw you? Give them prasadam.

Guest: Last night at the airport you saw me.

Prabhupada: Give them prasadam.

Mahamsa: They had prasadam.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are from here?]

Guest: I am from Bangalore.

Prabhupada: Bangalore.

Guest: [Transl. You are doing such a valuable work. Preaching the mission of God.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Without this everything will go to hell.]

Without bhagavad-bhakti, this so-called advancement of civilization is simply decorating the dead body.

Indian man (2): Correct. Cent per cent correct.

Prabhupada: What is the use of decorating the dead body?

Indian man (2): Correct. Yes. We must decorate real...

Prabhupada: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gita condemns: gatasūn agatasūms ca nanusocanti panḍitaḥ [Bg 2.11]. So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. And Bhagavad-gita says nanusocanti panḍitaḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apanḍitaḥ. Nanusocanti panḍitaḥ. That means apanḍita.

Guest: [Transl. How will it be possible without your mercy?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I am traveling all over the world just to bestow mercy.]

Guest: [Transl. That's why I repeatedly thanking you. So much.]

Prabhupada: And the first thing of Bhagavad-gita lesson is that asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadan [Bg 2.11]: "You are talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apanḍitaḥ. [Transl. What else otherwise?] One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the panḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gita's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatasūn agatasūms ca nanusocanti panḍitaḥ. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara tatha dehantara-praptiḥ [Bg 2.13]. Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gita.

Guest: [Transl. Only by your mercy can one become learned. Not otherwise.]

Prabhupada: All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gita.

Guest (2): [Transl. Krta krtya kriyam sattve mrtyum eva astu: In spite of being an accomplished person one must die.]

Guest: We are lucky souls that we are surrendered souls.

Prabhupada: [Transl. So, all of you together expand this movement nicely. See, alone it is not…]

Guest: [Transl. No. No. God's service is everyone's duty.]

Prabhupada: Whatever is done, it is by single man's effort. If all our actually leaders, they take up, then India will be glorified. They'll feel... Yes, they're expecting. Outside India, people, they expect that there is something better knowledge in India. Therefore as soon as some svamis or yogi goes there, they come. But they cheat.

Indian man (2): Many have gone to cheat.

Prabhupada: These rascals, I shall say rascals, sir, they do not know anything, and they go there for teaching yoga. And they are bogus.

Indian man (2): Bogus, bogus. So many bogus people are going.

Prabhupada: They do not know what is yoga.

Indian man (2): They do not know what is what. What that is truth. They don't know.

Prabhupada: And they get cheap money and women and that's all. That is their business.

Guest: [Transl. You kindly bless India. Here Bhagavata-dharma, Sanatana-dharma should spread vigouriously.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You all come forward and join us and you will see how the face of India will change.]

Guest: [Transl. It's good if it changes.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Definitely it will. Because India still has not forgotten.]

Guest: [Transl. No. This is the land of God.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Forceibly they are made to forget.]

Guest: [Transl. This is God's land. Only the politicians are misleading people. God's own land this is.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So, all of you together perform hari-kirtana. In each and every village.]

Guest: [Transl. I have got a temple also. Svami Yasodanandan has seen it. It's Vaikuntha-dhama.]

Gurukrpa: He has a temple. The whole third floor of his house is a temple. He has Sita-Rama, Krsna, Gopala. He has big temple. They have sahkirtana every night. Every morning and night.

Yasodanandana: They have sahkirtana every night. Every morning and night.

Guest: [Transl. My guruji is from Vrndavana, perhaps you know him. He used to live in the Rahgaji-bagica [garden]. He is Jagatguru Svami Raghunatha acarya. You will know him. You also lived in Vrndavana.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. I was living in Vrndavana only. But Radharani drove me out.]

Guest: [Transl. Drove out. Well, Radharani wanted you to preach so She had no other alternative than to drive you out.] [laughs]

Prabhupada: [Transl. "Get out from here."]

Guest: [Transl. It's good that you went out. Now lakhs of people will be delivered. Lakhs. Had you sat there lakhs of people would not have been delivered. The whole world is being delivered.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Therefore…If Radharani throws you out that is also good.]

Guest: [Transl. Certainly. Even the curse of a great soul is a blessing in disguise. Radharani is personally in control. She is the mother. A mother sends her son away for good cause. Such an auspicious service is being done. I am very satisfied and happy.]

Gurukrpa: That Rahganatha temple is that temple where they do not allow us in. So Sampat Kumar and all of these panḍitas, they will sign one letter trying to request them, also with the Puri people, to request them to let us in. Meanwhile they are all here they will do that. Also Sampat Kumar was thinking that in November and December in South India the weather is nice because the rainy season is finished, and it would be a very good time to go and visit many of the temples. He personally knows many people in all the big temples: Shri Rangam, Kancipuram, Mahabalipuram, Tirupati. We could arrange for receptions and programs.

Guest: Up to Cape Comorin.

Prabhupada: [Transl. I haven't visited the holy places of India as yet. I left home and sat down in Vrndavana. Then from Vrndavana I went to America.]

Guest (2): [Indistinct]

Guest: [Transl. Svamiji received order from Radharani to preach everywhere. So She sent him.]

Guest (2): Yamunacarya said :

How can my heart wish anything else now that it is placed at Your lotus-feet, which are overflowing with nectar? In the presence of a honey-filled lotus a bee does not even see a thorny, dried up iksuraka flower.

Guest: [Transl. Means the Supreme Lord is nectar. This world is poison. And He is nectar. Contrast. The world is poison and the Lord is nectar. Just the opposite, no? Kindly bless this servant of yours also. I remain at your feet.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. All of you together preach this devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Arrange someway to do that. I am still present.]

Guest: [Transl. It is happening! They are already doing! All arrangements are being done.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is little difficult for them. As soon as they stay here for a few months the government throws them out of the country.]

Guest: [Transl. Now the government's policy is somewhat unfavourable. You bless so that things will be favorable.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then will this work go on? Until Indians start to co-operate with this…]

Guest: [Transl. Let the politicians, the government become devotees first then everything will be all right.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It is not the question of the government. Forget that. What I am saying is that this preaching work, until Indian people co-operate... These poor boys and girls come from abroad and they are thrown out of country. Then how will it go on?]

Guest: [Transl. They will do. By your blessings they will do everything.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. No. You didn't understand. Just as they are helping, if Indians also help in the same way then only preaching will go on. Do you understand?] Indians, they are not coming. Intelligent, educated Indians, they are not coming. Then how it will go on? [Transl. So you explain to them all these things.]

Guest: [Transl. Svamiji says, explain to all those who are living in India...]

Prabhupada: Especially South Indians, they are, still their Indian original culture is still there in South India. Other parts of India, they have now given up.

Guest (2): Correct. [Transl. Play it.]

Gurukrpa: You still got cotton in it?

Guest: It is to be removed. Sampat kumar… [Transl. Svamiji says that you also preach here. We should combine together and push this work further.]

Guest (2): [Transl. I am doing it in Bangalore and Mangalore. I am preaching.]

Guest: [Transl. He is the best Sanskrit scholar in South India. If he participates, it will be a big success.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why I am requesting you. If Indians and Americans combinedly work together then it will have a great impact. Big influence. They are already doing it. Now you bring more and more Indians to participate. Then all of you together go to each and every village. We have buses. Go in the bus to any village and sit down. You worship the Lord's Deity, distribute prasada and perform kirtana. You see the result.]

Guest (2): [Transl. Buses are there. Go by bus to every village.]

Guest: [Transl. Buses they have. Just go to the villages and preach.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. These people are ready. Recruit some Indians and do it. Not so many. One dozen foreigners and one dozen Indians. You arrange like that. They are already here. If some nice educated Indians could be recruited who can understand the purpose of the mission then the work can start immediately.] We have got buses. We have got buses-two, three. Any number of. It is very simple method, that we combine together, Indian and foreigners. Go in buses. [Transl. Anywhere you sit down. You camp anywhere.]

Guest: [Transl. God is everywhere. We have to serve Him.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Perform kirtana. The Lord's Deity is there. Worship Him and offer bhoga to Him. Distribute prasada to everyone. That's all. And you will see the result.]

Guest (2): [Transl. Now we have to do like that.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So these people are here, and you bring some people. The work can start right away.]

Guest: [Transl. We will do Maharaja.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Not difficult at all.]

Guest: [Transl. We do. Whenever they come to Bangalore we participate as far as possible.]

Prabhupada: Now it should be organized movement. This is simply…

Guest: [Transl. You please come to Bangalore once.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why not?]

Indian man (3): You must also come in Bangalore once. Then it will be all...

Prabhupada: Immediately think over that these Europeans, Americans are there. Now take up the association of another, at least one dozen, educated Indians, and let us go together, [Transl. gaon to gaon: village to village. See what happens.]

Guest: [Transl. It must be good. There will be big preaching about God.]

Prabhupada: What do you think? Is that all right?

Yasodanandana: We could go from Madras...

Prabhupada: Anywhere.

Indian man (2): Anywhere. Any village. All the villages...

Prabhupada: You start from anywhere and go anywhere and sit down and chant. In India, Bharata-bhūmi. [Transl. As soon as you start] hari-kirtana, thousands will come. That is India. You won't have to advertise that "Here is hari-kirtana. Come." No. As soon as you begin, immediately thousands. Just like, as soon as there will be sugar grain, immediately the ants will come. It is like that. This is a fact.

Guest: Correct, correct. Hundred per cent correct. [Transl. The moment you start playing mrdahga people will automatically come.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. One who takes birth in Bharata-bhūmi, it is said in the Bhagavata, you may know, that even the demigods pray that if we do have some piety left kindly let us take birth in Bharata-bhūmi.]

Guest: [Transl. The Supreme Lord is present in the pores of every Indian.]

Guest (2): harer nama harer nama

Prabhupada: [Transl. So arrange this] Immediately. Just get one dozen good-I mean, good or bad, it doesn't matter-who is ready to work for this purpose. And our men are ready. Our buses are ready. So let us go. There is no question of selecting place. Anywhere. Anywhere.

Guest: Any place, anywhere, all the places.

Prabhupada: You go and find out some good place for camping and begin kirtana. Get down from the bus and begin kirtana. Then all friends will come immediately. They will offer shelter, they will offer food-everything.

Guest: [Transl. This is India's tradition which is going on since time immemorial.]

Prabhupada: One thing is that their difficulty is language. If Indians are there, they can speak on the local language.

Guest: They can explain everything.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore wanted.

Guest: [Transl. Let us go Svamiji. We have come to the material for serving the Supreme Lord. So why delay? And Svamiji is the leader of everyone.]

Guest: [Transl. We should take five or six devotees to Tirupati to let them have darsana of Balaji and Padmavati. They can have darsana of the Lord and the same time, perform bhajan and hari-nama there.]

Yasodanandana: In Vaikuntha Ekadasi. In Shri Rangam they have this giant festival every year, the biggest festival in India. It's Vaikuntha Ekadasi in December.

Guest: Last December we went there.

Yasodanandana: Very big. November-December is a very good time.

Guest: [Transl. Have you had darsana of Rahgaji? Trichi?]

Prabhupada: No.

Gurukrpa: Kanchipuram, Varadaraja.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Make a program. We should go.]

Guest (2): From here. From south [Transl. the whole place,] up to Cape Comorin. All are… Sripada Ramanujacarya's birth place…

Gurukrpa: Ahobala, Tirupati.

Yasodanandana: He knows all the places.

Guest: This is the original God, Shri Rangam.

Prabhupada: Now with Suraji's[?] cooperation make a program.

Yasodanandana: Yes, we will do like that. November-December will be very suitable time. Then in January, the Kumbha-mela, we will try to organize something big there also. January, Allahabad, Kumbha-mela. Purna Kumbha: full Kumbha.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You also join us there.]

Guest: [Transl. Sure. By your blessings we all went there two months ago along with Sampat kumarji.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Bring him also.]

Guest: [Transl. We will take them also. We will preach. Okay, enough. I take your leave Svamiji.]

Prabhupada: Give them prasada.

Guest: [Transl. We will cherish your blessing and everything will be smooth in our endeavor. Preaching about the Supreme Lord will go on. Hare Krsna.]

[pause]

Prabhupada: That's all. Stop now.

Harikesa: I was just going to say you should take massage now. I was just going to say it's time for massage.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Harikesa: Can I tell you about the bank? Punjab National Bank is down the street, and we have our temple account there.

Prabhupada: Oh, Punjab National Bank is there. That's all right.

Harikesa: So how much do you want to deposit?

Prabhupada: That I have to count.

Harikesa: So we can do it any time. And before you arrange this Kumbha-mela-it's very cold there.

Prabhupada: Don't talk now.

Harikesa: Okay.

[long pause]

Prabhupada: Everything is going in Vrndavana pattern?

Hari-sauri: Everything is going on. Wood carving, cement lay, painting, marble polishing. The yajna.

Prabhupada: If we would have remained there... These people are coming. How they could see? It was long discussion.

Hari-sauri: Still, it would have been very quiet.

Prabhupada: We are not [indistinct]. Besides that, we don't want quietness. We want how many functions we attend. Our mission is not for quietness.

Hari-sauri: Jaya. If you wanted quietness, you could have stayed in Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: Yes.

[end]