Devotee: That's what he says.

Prabhupada: He says?

Devotee: He says that, yes.

Prabhupada: And what they say?

Devotee: They believe him. The Maharaji...

Karandhara: He says that everyone in the world will become his devotees, but we'll, the Krsna conscious devotees will be the last. But they'll be the best.

Prabhupada: Kick his face. (laughter) So that means unless the Krsna conscious student go there, he is never perfect. That is to be understood.

Karandhara: So we tell them, "If we're the best devotees, then you come and surrender to us."

Prabhupada: Yes. He admits this.

Hrdayananda: Karandhara, does Prabhupada know about what happened in Houston?

Karandhara: Yeah, he saw the article.

Hrdayananda: Oh, you saw the article on Houston, how we chanted.

Yasomatinandana: Actually Prabhupada, his books are full of rubbish, garbage. There is no knowledge in the books or any philosophy or anything. They're simply...

Prabhupada: What is his books? They do not believe in books.

Yasomatinandana: Still, he puts out a magazine, called "Broadcasting His Glories." And in the magazine he quotes some verses from Bhagavad-gita. He supports that yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg. 4.7]. So he says that... Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that "I come whenever there is decline of religiosity." So he claims that he is now Krsna.

Prabhupada: Anyway, he accepts authority of Krsna.

Yasomatinandana: Yes, he says that Krsna is God.

Devotee: But now he is Krsna. And he wears Krsna's crown and he plays Krsna's flute. He wears Krsna's crown. They give him Krsna's crown and he wears it, and he plays Krsna's flute. Or he says it is Krsna's flute, and he plays it.

Prabhupada: Anyway, he is making his business with Krsna's crown and Krsna's flute.

Yasomatinandana: Like Paundraka.

Prabhupada: Yes. So Krsna is accepted as authority. So...

Yasomatinandana: He is like King Paundraka.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hrdayananda: Imitation is flattery.

Prabhupada: Best flattery. He is flattering Krsna. [break] Why the Krsna devotees do not come to you?

Yasomatinandana: Once a devotee met somebody on the street, and he said, "Actually I am God, you know." And the devotee said, "Oh yes, you are God?" So he said, "I am your devotee. Why don't you give me a million dollars," he said. "I am your devotee, I have dedicated my life to you. Why don't you give me some money."

Prabhupada: Who said?

Yasomatinandana: A devotee said. One guy said that he was God, he said, "I am God." Then devotee said that "Oh you are God? Then I am your devotee. Why don't you give me some money." [break]

Prabhupada: What is, machine, it is called?

Devotee: It is sand cleaner, it cleans the sand.

Prabhupada: Anyway, this machine is working to keep this beach very clean. So we can understand that there is some management behind this. Similarly, the nature is working so nicely. How we can deny that behind this there is a system of management? How we can deny it? [break] ...things are going on very nicely. The sun is rising exactly in time, the moon is rising exactly in time, the water is flowing in its own orbit. It does not violate. So if things are going on so nicely, how you can deny that "There is no management behind it"? How you can deny it? It is very natural to understand immediately. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that "What you are speaking that nature is doing, yes, nature is doing, but under My direction." Just like the machine. Take it as nature. The machine is working, but the driver is there. Without the driver, how the machine can simply work? [break] ...life is meant. That is Vedic instruction, to know that management, who is the supreme manager. That is human life. Athato brahma jijnasa. Otherwise animal life. [break]

Prajapati: In the last World War there was a very famous German propagandist named Goebbels who wrote that if one controls the communications, the media, the radio and television, newspapers, like this, he actually controls what people think. So we've not put so much emphasis on that so far in our Krsna consciousness movement, actually controlling the linkage of communication. In the future should we be more and more concerned with that?

Prabhupada: What is that future? What do you want to do in future?

Prajapati: Actually permeate all the media with Krsna consciousness propaganda, not simply just writing but actually all aspects of...

Prabhupada: Yes, you can take advantage of all this media. That we are doing. Just like we are taking advantage of this microphone. We are not rejecting, "Oh, it is material. Why should we take?" Nothing material. Anything used for Krsna is spiritual. Material means what is not used for Krsna. That is material. You are materialistic when you are not used for Krsna. And as soon as you are utilized for Krsna, you are spiritualistic. That is the difference. Here we say, "This is material world." This is material world because everyone has forgotten Krsna. Therefore it is material world. So if they come into Krsna consciousness, then it is spiritual. [break] ...conscious people now challenge this rascal that "We are searching after Krsna. We are not searching... We are devotee of Krsna, and you are posing yourself as Krsna. So show us some Krsna's power. We immediately come to you."

Yasomatinandana: He says that "I show it only to my devotees." He says that "You have to be my devotee to see my power."

Devotee: So we are Krsna's devotee, so if he is Krsna...

Prabhupada: But when Krsna lifted the mountain, it was not meant for the devotees, it was meant for everyone.

Yasomatinandana: But because he is rascal, that's what he says.

Prabhupada: "So you, why you are simply thinking of Krsna, your devotee. You show us. We don't believe you that you are Krsna, but if you want us to come to you, you show this. We shall come immediately. Why make it confidential? Make it public. Then we come immediately. This is our condition. But because you do not show it, therefore we know you are a rascal number one. Why shall I come to you?"

Yasomatinandana: "If you claim that you are God, then anybody can claim that he is God."

Prabhupada: "Yes, anybody can claim. But we think you are a rascal. Therefore we do not come. Now, if you can show us something like Krsna, then we shall immediately come. Our difficulty will be solved. We shall see Krsna. But we know that you are a rascal." You go there. Go there, somebody, and tell like that.

Prajapati: No. There is one rascal, Prabhupada, who can do tricks. His name is Sai Baba. He can make jewels appear, give people photographs of himself, give them to people like tricks.

Prabhupada: But another rascal will be victim of that tricks. Why shall I accept him as God?

Karandhara: Besides, they're insignificant tricks.

Prabhupada: Insignificant tricks. So if gold is the standard of becoming God, then there is gold mine. So who has created the gold mine, I shall accept Him God. Why shall I you. If gold is the standard, why a little chataka(?) of...? We are not so fools. You can make this trick for other fools, not to us.

Yasomatinandana: I told his mahatma, his main disciple... He says that "Actually, book is not important," he says, "but experience is important." And I said, "Yes, there is experience. This is Krsna consciousness experience by which you feel..."

Prabhupada: No, no. Book means experience. Book means experience, not rascaldom. What is book? A scientific book means one scientist who has experienced, he is writing book. So book means experience. Without book, where is experience?

Yasomatinandana: So he says that "You take the knowledge. You see the light, and you take the knowledge from Guru Maharaji."

Prabhupada: But you have taken the knowledge, why cannot you describe it. That means although you have got your Guru Maharaja, still you are in darkness. So what is the use of this Guru Maharaja? You are in darkness because you cannot explain. You're asking me to go to Guru Maharaja. But if you are enlightened, why you cannot explain? Therefore you are in darkness. They are useless as guru. You have not... He's a garu. He's garu.

Yasomatinandana: Garu is mad, crazy.

Prajapati: They claim to see light inside, Srila Prabhupada, but we say, "If we hit you on head, you will see light inside also."

Prabhupada: Yes, that everyone sees. What is your credit? If I kick on your face, you will find the light. So come here, I shall kick on your face and you'll see the light. (laughter) There is no need of Guru Maha...

Yasomatinandana: His disciples are usually very naive and very foolish.

Prabhupada: Unless they are foolish, how they can go there? Anyone who goes there, that means he is a foolish. That is the test. "A man is known by his company." Because all these rascals and fools go there, therefore he is a fool and rascal. It is concluded.

Hrdayananda: It's a fact. They're all less intelligent.

Yasomatinandana: I told him that "Have you seen Krsna's universal form? Krsna displayed His universal form just so that these rascals may not cheat you." They said, "I have seen universal form." I said "What did you see in the universal form? Did you see Siva, Brahma, all that?" He said, "I saw light, white light, in the universal form." That's all he saw in the universal form, white light. Factually they don't what universal form is.

Prabhupada: No, no, don't waste your time with that. They are all third-class rascals. Not even first-class rascals.

Devotee: They say that we are searching after the saguna form. They are looking for the visvarupa, and we are looking for saguna.

Yasomatinandana: The Visvarupa also has a form.

Prabhupada: No, no. Why do you waste your time by talking with these rascals? Take it for granted they are set of rascals. That's all. [break]

Karandhara: ...teach you about Guru Maharaji. So we just threw him out. [break]

Prabhupada: "If we want your teaching, we shall go to you. Why you have taken the trouble to come here? Please go out." That's all.

Yasomatinandana: Even though, Prabhupada, we chastise them so severely, somehow or other they still have a soft corner for the devotees. They are feeling guilty.

Prabhupada: They must have. Yes, they must have. They know they are culprit. But for their party's sake they are thinking or saying, "We are right. We are right."

Yasomatinandana: Yes, yes. Cause they are not sincere enough.

Hrdayananda: We have one devotee who was a member there. Now he is a devotee. There is one of our members. He is just a young boy and he went to the Guru Maharaji, and then when he heard our philosophy, now he is with us. Banabhatta. Now he is a nice devotee. Just as you always say that a sincere person cannot be misled.

Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna will help him. [break]

Yasomatinandana: This whole world is really nirvisesa-sunyavadi.

Prabhupada: Yes, they have become fools and rascals. That's all.

Yasomatinandana: So significant, this prayer. The whole world, including India. [break]

Prabhupada: ...difficulty is that because they are poverty stricken, they want some money now. They are thinking that "About God we shall think later on."

Yasomatinandana: Is it all right to blame the government in public, Prabhupada, in India?

Prabhupada: No, what is that government? Government is elected by the public. If public is polluted, the government must be polluted. Hare Krsna. Public votes somebody, "Take charge of government." So if the public selects somebody nonsense, the government must be nonsense.

Yasomatinandana: Yes. In other words, to tell the public that "You should elect God-conscious leaders to have a better society."

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Prajapati: You have given us this instruction, Srila Prabhupada, to confront these leaders. We understand that this is your very much wish and we shall do everything we can to try to fulfill your desire.

Prabhupada: Yes, do it. Do it.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. (Prabhupada gets in the car)

Prabhupada: If you can educate the people. "Don't vote for the rascals. Just try to understand who is the real man, who is the real leader."

Hrdayananda: So political program is very important.

Prabhupada: Yes. If public is educated to select right type of leader, then automatically... And it is very easy thing that "Leader must be faithful. A leader must know what is God and how to trust in Him. And he must be free from all sinful activities. The pillars of sinful activities are these." This is our propaganda. (end)