(Pradyumna leads devotees in chanting slokas 1-9) [break]
atma-mayam rte rajan
ramamano gunesv asya
mamaham iti manyate
yarhi vava mahimni sve
yad aha bhagavan rtam
brahmane darsayan rupam
sa adi-devo jagatam paro guruh
svadhisnyam asthaya sisrksayaiksata
tam nadhyagacchad drsam atra sammatam
prapanca-nirmana-vidhir yaya bhavet
sa cintayan dvy-aksaram ekadambhasy
upasrnod dvir-gaditam vaco vibhuh
sparsesu yat sodasam ekavimsam
niskincananam nrpa yad dhanam viduh
nisamya tad-vaktr-didrksaya diso
vilokya tatranyad apasyamanah
svadhisnyam asthaya vimrsya tad-dhitam
tapasy upadista ivadadhe manah
divyam sahasrabdam amogha-darsano
tapas tapiyams tapatam samahitah
tasmai sva-lokam bhagavan sabhajitah
sandarsayam asa param na yat-param
sva-drstavadbhir purusair abhistutam
Prabhupada: ...transcendental vibration. So everything is there. If you do not practice, what can I do? The transliteration is there, the accent is there, and now our Pradyumna is there also. Utilize time; become attracted. As Krsna is all-attractive, you become attracted at least to some. Krsna is all-attractive. You cannot become all-attracted. At least you become attracted to some. They are becoming attracted by good apartment, by shaving the beard or..., like that. You told me they are trying to remain young?
Sudama: Yes, yes. You have given us so many. Now we have so much to start. So many mantras, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Isopanisad.
Prabhupada: Huge. So why you are not utilizing this facility?
Sudama: We're missing the point.
Prabhupada: This evening you will have to chant these verses and you will explain. Who will explain? You will explain? That's all right. Then I shall speak. First of all let them hear from my disciples, then I shall speak. Is it all right?
Sudama: Yes, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So now practice whole day how to pronounce these slokas.
Pradyumna: Better all chant.
Prabhupada: Yes. And explain. Practice like this. Then wherever you go, you will be all respected. [break] Very nice. What is this? It is not even W.C. in comparison to the higher planetary building.
Pradyumna: Does not even?
Sudama: W.C., toilet.
Devotees: Water closet.
Prabhupada: What is called? W.C.? What is it?
Devotee: Water closet.
Prabhupada: That means your lavatory. Therefore the demigods do not come here even to urine. (laughter) Formerly they used to come. Now they do not come because it is not fit for their urinating. Here, we are very much proud of our advancement, but the demigods do not come even to pass urine. Why they should come? Now, because another house is raised here, even a common man is not coming to urine here. A little less facility, so they are not occupying. So why the demigods will come to this nonsense place? You can understand. These apartments are lying vacant on account of a little less facility. So why the demigods? Their comforts and their standard of living is many millions times better than yours. You cannot imagine it even. The more you go to the higher planetary system, their standard of living is still higher, higher-duration of life, standard of living, beauty, other facilities. Why they are called higher planetary system? Here in this planet even you don't get the sunshine sufficiently. The bare necessities. Now you can experience that when you go above the cloud by airplane you see there is no more cloudy. The sunshine is free. You can imagine how in the higher planetary system the sunshine is so free. And here as soon as there is little sunshine, oh, today, "Good morning." Today is very good morning. In London, Lennon's gardener, he was meeting, I was walking. He was Mr. Johnson or something.
Prabhupada: Frank? So, "Today is really good morning." "Yes." Otherwise it is dark. And actually countries which have no sufficient sunshine, they are condemned. I told you frankly, your London is hell, in that television. Actually it is hell. We could understand from outside London, simply dark, moist, everything damp. The trees, they have got, what is called?
Prabhupada: Moss. Yes. That moss for want of sufficient sunshine.
Devotee: People get little relief from their misery and they say, "Oh, I am happy now."
Prabhupada: Yes. From the miseries, Mr. John is happy by becoming naked and having fireplace. He is bringing the wood personally, putting there. And Yoko is very happy. Japanese wife. She was talking philosophy with me.
Sudama: "He is me."
Prabhupada: That's all right. So our Hare Krsna will be advertised. (laughter) People will be inquisitive, "What is this Hare Krsna?" at least. One who does not know. That is good.
Syamasundara: Because nobody believes in John Lennon anymore either.
Prabhupada: How long it will go bluffing?
Syamasundara: He is losing his...
Syamasundara: His popularity. People are becoming disappointed because formerly he was very brilliant songwriter, but now it's become very degraded.
Pradyumna: He formerly was married before, and he had family I think. But then he divorced to marry...
Prabhupada: Not divorce. The contract is her former husband should live also. She has got double husband. He is living there along with him. I know that.
Prabhupada: Cox. He is living there.
Devotee: Simply insanity. Insanity.
Prabhupada: Insanity. Yes. He is the manager. What manager? He has got motorcycle and goes round. He must be given some post. And he has also married another? That...
Syamasundara: Dan? I don't think he is legally married.
Prabhupada: Friend. She has got, he has got a child?
Syamasundara: One or two small children.
Prabhupada: So he has to maintain all of them. On this contract that Yoko is there.
Prabhupada: So all this business on the basis of sex. That's all. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. For very insignificant happiness they are encumbered in so many ways. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha-duhkham.
Syamasundara: And every time she tried to have a child, because they lead such a decadent life, she has miscarriage every time.
Prabhupada: That means she has got syphilitic poison. Girls who cannot bear child means there is syphilitic poison. Either the man has got syphilitic poison or the woman has got syphilitic poison. And for these men, syphilis is not very uncommon.
Sudama: In this country, it is now also very, like epidemic.
Prabhupada: Syphilis. All over Europe. When Dr. Ghosh, who is my friend, he came to see me in Allahabad? One doctor? So he is friend. He told me that when he was student, Colonel (indistinct), one big professor, medicine, he was lecturing. He was Englishman. He said that "In our country, seventy to eighty percent of the student community, they are suffering from syphilitic attack." So in our country, in India, if one is attacked with syphilis, then he is taken as very abominable. His character is not good, it is understood. So he said, "Horrible," Dr. Ghosh, because he was Indian student. So Colonel (indistinct) replied, "Why you are saying horrible? In your country ninety percent people are attacked malaria. So there, syphilis. So as a medical practitioner why you take this disease as bad or that disease as good? Your business is to see that there should be no disease. Don't consider in that way, that 'This disease is good, this disease is bad.' " That's nice explanation. But fifty years ago or hundred years ago syphilitic poison was very much prevalent. Still it is in Europe and America. And now it is spreading all over. And in Ayur Veda it is said, phiranga, phiranga. Phirangi. The Europeans are described in Vedic literatures as phirangi, their name is phirangi. So this syphilitic disease is mentioned in the Ayur Veda, the disease brought by the phirangis. And the doctor says that originally it was spread through dog. The unmarried girls, they keep dog for sex. You do not know? He knows. You will find very beautiful girl is keeping very big dog. They are trained to have sex life. And that is cause of syphilis. The dog is full of syphilitic germs. It is called phiranga in the Ayur Veda. And one who has got syphilitic germs, his life is doomed. Unless it is properly treated and cured, so many disease will follow. So many. This craziness is also due to syphilitic poison, parents.
Sudama: There is a case of a very famous gangster, Al Capone, and others. They died in the prison house of syphilis of the mind, brain.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Sudama: They went crazy.
Prabhupada: So how much by nature the sex life is condemned in so many ways. Therefore we say "No illicit sex." It will save you from so many encumbrances. Sex life is not denied, but this unrestricted sex life is very very abominable in human society. But they are encouraging unrestricted sex life. They are distributing tablets, encouraging others to have sex life. Never mind. Unmarried girls they are keeping dogs. One lady in America, she told me that the dogs are kept for this purpose. When I was going to walk in that park in Brooklyn, the young girls are bringing dogs, big, big dogs. You were not at that time with me?
Syamasundara: Yes. I don't remember.
Syamasundara: Yes. I went. Prospect. Was it called Prospect?
Prabhupada: Prospect Park. Yes. Go on. Just try to understand the situation of the world. And you are living in this world. How much careful you have to become. [break] These are the sanklesa. And Krsna showed him the Vaikuntha planet, vyapeta-sanklesa. All these problems are not there. Go on. [break]
Pradyumna: "...Personality of Godhead, being thus very much satisfied with the penance of Lord Brahma, was pleased to manifest His personal abode, Vaikuntha, the supreme planet above all others. This transcendental abode of the Lord is adored by all self-realized persons freed from all kinds of miseries and fearfulness of illusory existence."
Prabhupada: These five kinds of... Is it explained there? Five kinds of?
Syamasundara: Five kinds of material miseries?
Pradyumna: "The material body is overcast with five kinds of miserable conditions, namely ignorance, material conception, attachment, hatred, and absorption. As long as one is overwhelmed with these five kinds of material miseries, there is no question of entering into the Vaikunthalokas."
Prabhupada: Pavarga. And to counteract is called apavarga. Apavarga-vartmani. Pavarga, pa means hard labor. If you want to exist here you have to work very, very hard. Just like this man. With hard labor collected some money, constructed this house. Now there is no tenant. Another hard labor to find out tenant. Is it not hard labor?
Prabhupada: In such a modern city, this apartments are lying vacant. That means he is... He has invited us to stay here to get some blessing so that tenants may come. (laughter) Asirvada. He was asirvada. If by the asirvada he can get some tenants... All these men, they simply want asirvada. They don't want Krsna. They want asirvada so that their nefarious activities may continue peacefully.
Sudama: Mr. Santanam was the same. He had loaned to me some money for doing some work on the temple. And then when he got promotion in his job, he came to me and said, "Sudama, it is by, I think, the mercy of Krsna that I have now promotion. Please do not bother paying me the money back."
Prabhupada: That's nice, but the difficulty is sometimes Krsna's asirvada may be just the opposite. Krsna will take away. So at that time they become atheist. In Germany there are so many atheists born out of the second war.
Sudama: In Japan also.
Prabhupada: Japan also.
Sudama: Japan also. After the war...In Japan during the war the Japanese government supported a certain religious sect, Shinto religion. And they would spend thousands of dollars for ceremony for soldiers and to have good omen for the war. When they lost the war, the entire government wrote in the Constitution, now it is in the Constitution, that the government of Japan will not support any religious organization. So the people then, after losing the war, they lost faith in anything religious and they became distraught.
Prabhupada: That is the effect of the last... The general, people in general, they expect dharma for artha. dharma for artha. The Bhagavata therefore explains that dharmasya... Dharmasya ca... What is that?
Prabhupada: Dharmasya hy apavargyasya nartho 'rthayopakalpate. Narthasya dharmaikantasya kamo labhaya hi smrtah. Yes. Dharmasya hy apavargyasya nartho 'rthayopakalpate. One should not execute religious principles for getting better financial or material facility. That is not the purpose. But they have taken it purpose. "We have supported this religious community—we must become victorious of our whimsical declaration of war." That Krsna supported the Battle of Kuruksetra, it was not whimsical declaration of war. Before declaring war, Pandavas, even Krsna tried to stop it in so many ways. When Duryodhana clearly said that "Not even that portion of land which can hold the tip of a needle can be given to you without war..." They were, Krsna personally requested that "They are ksatriyas. They cannot take up the work of a brahmana or a sudra or a vaisya. So better you give them five villages only. Let the five brothers rule over them." He replied, "What do You say of five villages? Not that portion of land which can hold the tip of a needle I can give them without war." Therefore the war was declared: "All right. Decide by war." That was not a whimsical war manufactured and maneuvered by the politician. That is dharma-yuddha. When you encroach upon my right, there must be. Tena tyaktena bhunjitha ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam [Iso mantra 1]. You cannot encroach upon others' right.
So the animal killer, they are encroaching upon others' right. These cows and goats, they are also living entities, they have got right to live. When there is absolute necessity, that is a different thing. But you cannot encroach upon their right of living simply to satisfy the taste of your tongue. That is the greatest sin. Similarly illicit sex. One has got wife and he is having illicit sex with other woman, that is, that is crime. "You want to satisfy your sex? All right. You have got legitimate wife." "No. I want to satisfy my senses." Therefore illicit sex is sinful. You have got many other foodstuff. Why should you satisfy your senses by killing some other right of living? Therefore it is... Why it is sinful anyone can understand. Just like if I have no money, that does not mean to secure money I shall take your money. Then I am thief. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no money. This man has got so much money. Therefore I have taken some money." Will the court excuse you? Even if you have no food, you cannot encroach upon other's right unless you are sanctioned. Therefore according to Vedic system, the meat-eater is given chance by sacrificing an animal before some demigod. Not free slaughterhouse. No. That you cannot do. Undergoing that process, someday he will come to his senses that "Meat-eating and killing of animal is not good." Because there are so many mantras. If you understand mantras, the mantra, when a goat is sacrificed before Goddess Kali, before the goat being cut by his throat, the priest says that "Because you are sacrificing your life before Goddess Kali, next life you are going to have human form of body for your, this sacrifice." Otherwise you have to undergo the process. That is gradual evolutionary process. But because you are forced somehow or other in the presence of mother material energy, she will give you the facility to promote immediately to the human form of life. And as human being, you will have every right to kill this man who is killing you. That is meaning of mamsa. Mam means me, sa means he. "He will also eat me." So I will have to take the form of a goat next life. And he will take the form of a human being and he will get the chance of killing me. He can excuse, but he will get the chance. This is the bandhana. Karma-bandhana.
So after hearing all these mantras, if one takes the risk of eating meat, let him do that. But who is that sane man who will take this risk? This is the meaning of sacrifice. Not that it is a slaughterhouse substitute. No. They will understand that what kind of risk they are going to take by killing the animal under the name of sacrifice. Another thing is that to sacrifice the goat before the demigod Kali means it is restricted. Because the prescription is that one can sacrifice a goat before Goddess Kali on the dark moon night, amavasya. That is once in a month. So even the sastra gives him the facility, the facility is restricted. As much as marriage. What is the difference between married sex and without wife? Restricted. You restrict to one woman. You don't spoil many women and get syphilis disease. You see? This is restricted. Restricted to one man, restricted to one woman, restricted once in a month.
So actually whenever there is sanction in the sastra, that is not encouraging. That is restriction. So one cannot give this evidence, "Oh, your Vedas say this is sanctioned." But that sanction is restriction. Loke vyavayamisa-madya-seva nitya hi jantor na hi tatra codana. The sastra is not encouraging. Because there is no need of encouraging. It is already known to him. Why the sastra encourage? This is not encouragement. This is restriction. The same example can be given. Just like when government opens liquor shop it is not encouragement. It is restriction. You cannot have liquor manufactured by yourself anywhere, everywhere; otherwise it will increase more and more. So you have to pay heavy tax and purchase. And there are so many other rules and regulations. So this is restriction. When there is liquor shop licensed by the government, it does not mean it is encouragement. At least that is the philosophy. It is restriction. So all these facilities given sometimes in the sastras or by the government for drinking or for intoxication or for sex or for gambling, that is restricted. Gambling, ksatriyas, they can gamble. They must have the sporting spirit. Otherwise when they are defeated they will succumb to death. So they have to... The gambling, I lose one hundred thousand dollars, "Never mind. It is sporting." Otherwise I will succumb to death. I have been... What? That is being done in gambling clubs. But if you do it in a sporting habit, then "Never mind. I gain or lose, it is nothing." That's all. Ksatriyas are allowed because when they fight they will have to gain or to lose. But if they lose, if they become succumbed, then it will be very difficult for them. They are allowed to hunt. If they cannot kill, then how can they rule over the criminals? The ksatriya king, "Oh, he is a criminal"? Just like Pariksit Maharaja. Such a Vaisnava king. As soon as he saw somebody is trying to kill a cow, immediately took his sword: "What nonsense you are doing? Immediately I shall kill you." A ksatriya must be spirited. Immediately cut off. Even in England, that was the practice. They used to practice dummy men cut head. The king must be like there.
Sudama: Here also. Here also there was a class of men called samurai, and they carried long sword and short sword. And they had certain rules for fighting. They would never fight a man unless he was equally matched. And if he lost, then he must take... If I lose the battle then I must take the short sword and kill myself for shame, for dishonor.
Prabhupada: Not only that, when Krsna was fighting with Rukmini's brother, he lost his chariot. So, and Rukmini took the sword. So Krsna also throw His bow and arrows. He also took the sword. Not that "I shall possess better weapons to kill you." No. Equal. Equal terms. "If you have no sword, I will give you a sword." Yes. "Take this sword. I take another." That is ksatriya spirit. Sporting. So for ksatriya, this animal killing, this, which is abominable, but they require.
Devotee: Intoxication too?
Prabhupada: Intoxication also. Just like Balarama, He was drinking madhu. Yes. You have not seen it? He was also enjoying in the company of women. Because He is ksatriya. The ksatriyas are allowed polygamy, drinking, intoxication, because they are king. They must have facility. At the same time they are ruling over the country. They take consulting great sages, saintly persons. And if he is not in order, these saintly persons would dethrone him. Prthu Maharaja's father was killed, Vena. He was not according to the system. He was killed.
Pradyumna: I don't understand how sometimes we..., how the intoxication of some type of wine would go along with the ruling of a country.
Prabhupada: Well, for rulers is a pleasure. They must have some pleasure. Just like ordinary men, they drink with woman, dancing, it is a recreation. So this is material recreation, to be little intoxicated and several nice young girls around. That gives him some encouragement. You see? They have to take so much risk, so much responsibility. For recreation they require it. They should be given little facility.
Devotee: Can they still make spiritual advancement?
Prabhupada: Well, spiritual advancement is going on. They are taking advice from great saintly persons, they are observing, they are performing big sacrifices, spending money, treasury. That is their spiritual advancement. You are satisfying Krsna in spite of... All these devatas, the demigods, they also enjoy. In higher planetary system, like Indra, he is prostitute hunter number one, Indra. (laughter) But he is a great devotee at the same time.
Pradyumna: But he is still in material world.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is material. So those who are going to directly to transfer to the spiritual world, for them all these things are prohibited. But those who want to remain here, at the same time they have got some particular duty, these are also. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says those who are preparing bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya niskincanasya, they must give up all these things. They should be niskincana. Niskincanasya yad dhanam viduh(?). You have read that? Niskincana. Devotee, they don't want all these, anything, any glaring possession. Even Brahma. Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that brahma-janme nahi mora asa: "I don't care to take birth as Brahma." Kita-janma hau jatha tuwa dasa: "Better let me become an insect where Your devotee is there." So our purpose is different. We don't want even the exalted place like Brahma in this material world. We don't want. That is our determination. We want Krsna. Go back to home, back to Godhead.
Pradyumna: Could that be..., could these enjoyments of the ksatriyas...
Prabhupada: Param. We are seeing here in this material world, this apartment is better than the down apartment. So it is param. Param means better superior quality. So here in this material world we are finding out something superior than the others, because it is relative world. But the kingdom of Godhead, Vaikuntha, na yat-param, there is no more param. Finished. All param finished.
Pradyumna: Ah, nothing is superior than this.
Prabhupada: Yes. Param. Param. You can say "It is a very nice apartment. Why shall I (go) after Vaikuntha?" But he has no idea. He thinks that "If I go to Europe I get a better standard of living, better woman and better salary." But he has no idea what is param. Therefore, param na yat-param. There is no more superior. All superior finished. This is Bhagavata. Param na yat-param. Final. Final beauty, Krsna. Final opulence, final strength, final wisdom. Everything final in Krsna, ultimate. No more. Na yat-param. Therefore He is called Paramesvara. Isvara means commander. There are many commander, controller, but Krsna is called Paramesvara. "No more." And Krsna says mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Para means superior. "There is no more superior than Me." Param na yat-param. This is meaning of. So have sankirtana. (end)
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