Syamasundara: All they're doing is creating the conditions for the jiva to enter, actually. Isn't it?

Prabhupada: Whatever their proposal, these things are already there. So even they can create something, xerox copy, what is the credit?

Syamasundara: But then they'll have control over it. That's their...

Prabhupada: No, no control, because you are beginning from something on which you have no control. So where is your control?

Syamasundara: "From now on I am the master. I can create more Einsteins. I can create many Einsteins."

Prabhupada: But first of all keep Einstein living. Why he is dying?

Syamasundara: That's on their program too.

Prabhupada: That's on their programthat is is another foolish thing.

Syamasundara: Postponement of death by at least fifty years...

Prabhupada: So what is the profit? After fifty years he has to die. Stop, stop death, then that is credit.

Syamasundara: They say they will be able to take out someone like Einstein's brain when his body dies and keep it alive, a disembodied brain, and use it like a computer.

Prabhupada: All right. Whatever. (sounding disgusted) No. All rascals, fools. As if in the brain there is the thing. What is this brain? It is a material substance, what is there, lump of matter.

Syamasundara: Just like they can take a heart out of a living being and they put it in a machine and keep it alive and then they transplant it to some other person.

Prabhupada: The same intelligence, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13], they're trying to find out life in this lump of matter. That is their defect.

Syamasundara: They'll spend so many billions of dollars, and years of work.

Prabhupada: The same example. Just like computer machine. They do not find that the machine is made by a brain which is different from this material. But he's trying to find out a brain from this. This is their childish... The brain is different from machine. The machine is lump of iron. And the one who is working with the machine is a different from the machine. That they do not know. That they do not know. That is their defect. Now what is this computer machine will do unless there is a worker in the computer room, highly salaried man?

Syamasundara: Unless it's plugged into the wall it doesn't work.

Prabhupada: Lump of matter, iron, that's all. But that they do not know. They are so foolish and rascal. Then they're trying to find out... This is same childishness, that "I'm trying to find out the singer within the box, within the box." It is like that.

Svarupa Damodara: Actually the proposals that they made here (indistinct) very speculative type. It's just a projection that can be made by their own speculation.

Prabhupada: That's all. It is simply mental speculation.

Syamasundara: They haven't even come near to these things yet.

Prabhupada: They'll never come.

Svarupa Damodara: Mostly scientists are digging up, trying to find out something when they get some very basic preliminary ideas, they speculate so much (indistinct) this, so on. In such and such time I'll be able to make such and such things. Every scientist does like that. Ultimately it is all, it is always...

Prabhupada: Failure.

Svarupa Damodara: Something on the way, something comes up.

Prabhupada: Then there, it has changed. It has changed. The circumstances have changed.

Svarupa Damodara: (indistinct) very, very delicate, the substances that they are handling, the cells of the the microorganisms. They are also subjected to different changes, without knowing anything. So, but they're taking that things are thus perfect, (indistinct) based on their perfect thinking, what they have learned is infallible. (indistinct)

Prabhupada: Therefore our sastra says these classes of men, no better than cows and asses. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cows and asses. We take them like go-kharah, cows and asses. They may speculate, but we take them, "You are no better than asses and cows."

Syamasundara: They work very hard for a little morsel of grass.

Prabhupada: Yes. That's right. Some fools will give them credit, and that credit is given by such class of men: dogs, hogs, camels and asses. No good men. Krsna conscious men will never give them anything. But men like dogs, hogs, asses and camels will give them. Samstutah purusah pasuh, this they are. Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah [SB 2.3.19]. Samstutah means eulogized. This class of men will be eulogized by whom? By dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. No Vyasadeva will give them credit; no Narada will give them credit; neither Krsna will give them credit, nor followers of Krsna consciousness will give them credit. Because they have a criterion to know what kind of man he is. They have got sastra, and from the sastra it is understood one who is accepting this body as the self, he is no better than cow and ass. That is our culture. He has not still found out that the worker of the machine is different. This body is just like machine. May be composed of highly mechanical arrangement, electronic parts and this and that, so many things, but after all, it is a machine! And this machine must be worked by somebody. He must be living. He is not machine.

Syamasundara: They can't create a machine that will act like a human?

Prabhupada: No, no. Even if it can act, still it has to be worked. Unless I push the buttons, you cannot work. That they are missing. Just like you say that computer machine is the same, or so many things, but as soon as you say that "I want this," immediately. But you have to push the button. This machine is working when I push this plug into the electricity.

Svarupa Damodara: Just like a computer cannot correct a mistake. They'll just give a message that it's wrong. That's all.

Syamasundara: No. They have correction. They have correction.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Even they... But ultimately the mechanic (is) able to work on the computer machine.

Syamasundara: But what about this artificially changing bodies before they are born, before they are growing?

Prabhupada: That is also same thing. Just like I change your shirt, what is that?

Syamasundara: But I mean, isn't that a demonic act?

Prabhupada: That we shall consider later. Demonic it must be, but this change, this change can be possible.

Syamasundara: If by our karma we desire a certain type of body but they create all the bodies to be the same, how is that? But men are tampering with the bodies.

Prabhupada: Let them create first, then say. Where is the man they are creating? It is simply theory.

Lilavati: That living entity would still have the same desire, that previous desire for that previous body, won't he? If some scientist can change the genes so that the jiva can have a different kind of body, he still would have the previous desires?

Prabhupada: No, no. That is not possible. If his body... The word is daiva netrena: by superior arrangement. So how these rascals can be superior? They are not.

Atreya Rsi: And also, Prabhupada, in case, for example some scientist makes a change, like if the scientist comes and cuts off my hand, that's also my karma. In that way he's not making a change. Everything that is happening is God's plan.

Prabhupada: No, no, no, no, no. Everything, even if it is not in my karma, I can cut, I become responsible for cutting.

Atreya Rsi: In other words, if somebody comes and cuts my hand...

Prabhupada: Yes. He can do that. He creates his own karma.

Atreya Rsi: Jaya. But how about my karma?

Prabhupada: My karma is that such thing may happen. Your karma is that he'll also cut his hand, next life.

Atreya Rsi: The fact that my hand got cut this life, wasn't this due to something I did before? (end)