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Bhagavad-gita 2.14

Mexico, February 14, 1975
matra-sparsas tu kaunteya
agamapayino 'nityas
tams titiksasva bharata
[Bg. 2.14]
So from last night discussion, it is to be concluded that we are not going to die. Krsna said not only He, but also Arjuna and all other who were present in the battlefield, they will continue to exist. So how we shall exist? That is also discussed, that as we are existing now—we have accepted a type of material body and existing—similarly, after finishing this body, I'll accept another body and exist. Now, the question is that "In what kind of body I shall exist after finishing this body?" That is also explained, that if we like, we can exist in the higher planetary system where the duration of life is very, very long, the sense enjoyment is very, very perfect, more than this world. This we can have. Similarly, we can exist in lower grade of life like cats, dogs, insects, trees, aquatics, like that. And we can exist also in the same way as we are existing now. And we can exist also exactly like God—eternal life of bliss and knowledge.
Actually, spiritual body means eternal life of bliss and knowledge. This body which we are possessing now, material body, it is neither eternal, nor blissful, nor full of knowledge. Every one of us, we know that this material body will be finished. And it is full of ignorance. We cannot say anything, what is beyond this wall. We have got senses, but they are all limited, imperfect. Sometimes we are very much proud of seeing and challenge, "Can you show me God?" but we forget to remember that as soon as the light is gone, the power of my seeing is gone. Therefore the whole body is imperfect and full of ignorance. The spiritual body means full of knowledge, just opposite. So we can get that body next life, and we have to cultivate how to get that type of body. We can cultivate to get the next body in the higher planetary system or we can cultivate the next body like cats and dog, and we can cultivate such body as eternal, blissful knowledge. Therefore the best intelligent person will try to get next body full of blissfulness, knowledge, and eternity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. That place, that planet, or that sky, where you go and you'll never return back to this material world... In the material world, even if you promote to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, still, you'll have to come back again. And if you try your best to go to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead, you'll not come again to accept this material body.
Then the question is that "If I am eternal, why there are so many miserable condition of life? And why I am forced to die?" So this is actually the intelligent question, that "If I am eternal, then why I shall remain in this material body which is subjected to death, birth, old age and disease?" Therefore Krsna instructs that this miserable condition of life is due to this material body. Those who are karmis, means those who are engaged in sense gratification... They are called karmis. The karmis do not care for future; they simply want immediate facilities of life. Just like a child without the care of the parents, he plays whole day and doesn't care for future life, do not take any education. But in the human form of life, if we are actually intelligent, we shall try our best how to get that life or body where there is no more death, birth, old age and disease.
So this Krsna consciousness movement means to educate people for that purpose. Now, one may say that "If I simply devote in Krsna consciousness, then how my material necessities will be supplied?" So the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gita, that anyone who is simply engaged in Krsna consciousness, for his necessities of life Krsna will look after. Krsna is looking after for everyone's maintenance. Eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman: "That one Supreme Person is maintaining the necessities of all living entities." So for a devotee who is trying to go back to home, back to Godhead, there will be no scarcity. Be rest assured. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, tesam satata-yuktanam yoga-ksemam vahamy aham: [Bg. 10.10] "A devotee who is engaged always in My service, I look after, how his necessities of life will be fulfilled." A practical example is that in this Krsna consciousness movement we have got one hundred centers, and each temple, not less than twenty-five, up to 250 devotees live. So we have no fixed up means of income, and we are spending in all the branches eighty thousand dollars per month. But by grace of Krsna we have no scarcity; everything is supplied. People are surprised sometimes that "These people do not work, do not take any profession, simply chant Hare Krsna. How they live?" So that is no question. If cats and dogs can live at the mercy of God, the devotees can live very comfortably by the mercy of God. There is no such question, but if somebody thinks that "I have taken to Krsna consciousness, but I am suffering for so many things," for them or for all of us the instruction is matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah: [Bg. 2.14] "These pains and pleasure is just like winter and summer." In the winter the water is painful, and in the summer the water is pleasing. So what is the position of the water? It is pleasing or painful? It is neither painful, neither pleasing, but in certain season, by touching the skin it appears to be painful or pleasant. Such pains and pleasure is explained herein: "They are coming and going. They are not permanent." Agama apayinah anityah means "They are coming and going; therefore they are not permanent." Krsna therefore advises, tams titiksasva bharata: "Just tolerate." But you do not forget your real business, Krsna consciousness. Don't care for these material pains and pleasure. Of course, we shall try our best if there is pains and pleasure to counteract it, but even it is not done, don't be misled by these so-called pains and pleasure.
So one of the devotional quality is titiksa, tolerance. That should be learned, how to tolerate in every condition of life. Just like those who are actually brahmanas in India... We have got also brahmanas in the Western countries, now created. So because it is pinching cold, they do not forget to take bath early in the morning. It is simply practice. It may be painful for one day or two day, but if you practice, it is no longer painful. So one should not give up the practice of taking bathing early in the morning because it is severe cold. That is not. Similarly, in the summer season, because it is scorching heat, one should not decide that "We shall stop cooking." Because in the kitchen it may be too hot, but for that reason we cannot give up cooking. Similarly, all the rules and regulation that are there, it may be painful, but we cannot give it up. We have to learn how to tolerate. Therefore Krsna advises, tams titiksasva bharata: "My dear Arjuna, the good descendant of Bharata Maharaja, you try to tolerate this." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has advised, therefore, just to advance in Krsna consciousness, how one should be tolerant. He has said, trnad api sunicena: "Just you become humbler than the grass." Just like one grass so many people are trampling over. It does not protest. Trnad api suni..., taror api sahisnuna: "And tolerant more than the tree..." Just like tree. Somebody is taking his branches, somebody is snatching its fruit, sometimes cutting it, but still, the tree is giving you shelter, fruit, and leaves and fruits and flowers. Very good example. So anyone who is desiring to go back to home, back to Godhead, he has to learn to be tolerant and forbearing. That is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna, amanina manadena: "For himself, one should always think that he has no respect. He doesn't require to command any respect. But all respects he offer to others." In this way, if we become practiced, then we become fit for going back to Godhead, back to home. That will be explained in the next verse:
"If one practices like that, then he becomes fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." So practice, anything you practice... In Bengali it is said sarirera nama mahasaya ya sahabe tai sa.(?) You practice in you body, and if you come to the point of tolerance, then anything you can practice and it will be tolerable. Just like in the morning, when we go for morning walk, they are practicing running. Eh? So many people are practicing running, but I cannot run. But... So if I practice for some days, I can also run.
So anything you practice, you'll be successful. So if by practicing Krsna consciousness, you can go back to home, back to Godhead, why should you neglect it? That will solve your all problems. The real problem is birth, death, old age and disease, and if you can solve this problem simply by practicing some regulative principles, why don't you do it? So that is our request. We are opening hundreds of centers to give training to the people to practice this and go back to home, back to Godhead. But you cannot go back to home, back to Godhead, so cheaply. You have to practice certain regulative principle; then you will be fit. That is not very difficult, and if you practice, that will be very easy, and the beginning should be chanting the Hare Krsna mantra so that you'll be fit for practicing also. So therefore, take full advantage of this movement. Now it is one... We have got center in your city. I request you to take full advantage of this Krsna consciousness movement and be successful in your life. But rest assured. Do not be misled that (sic:) after finishing this body, every one of us will have to accept another body. If we neglecting the rules and regulation, if we have to accept the body of a dog, just imagine how much displeasing it will be. We have to take to this principle, as Krsna says, mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam: [Bg. 9.25] "Anyone who is engaged in Krsna consciousness, he comes to Me." So practice this Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. Now any question? No question? Everything all right?
Hrdayananda: (translating question) He says if we practice Krsna consciousness and develop a spiritual body, is there also a... Which spirit animates the spiritual body?
Prabhupada: Yes, we'll get spiritual body. Spiritual body is already there; it is simply covered by material body. You have to cure this material body. Then you get your original, spiritual body. It is curing process. Just like one has got fever. Fever is not permanent—temporary. But cure this fever; then you healthy.
Hrdayananda: (translating) She's saying that you were saying how one can take birth as a dog even, so she's wondering how long does this go on. How many births does one take like this?
Prabhupada: As long as you are unable to go back to home, back to Godhead, you have to change this body, either dog or this or that or this. And there are 8,400,000 forms of body. You have to accept one of them. Now you make your decision whether you are ready to accept all these different types of body or you get original, spiritual body. In the spiritual body there is no more birth, death, old age and disease, and the material body continuously there should be birth, death, old age and disease. You can get that spiritual body simply by little cultivation in this human form of life, next life. But if you get next other than human form of life, then you have to wait again millions of years to come to this human form of life. After all, we are under the stringent laws of nature. You... We are..., every one of us, we are under the grip of the laws of material nature. It will go on. You cannot change it unless you come to Krsna consciousness.
Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know if our reincarnations are progressive or regressive.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is progressive or degressive also.
Hrdayananda: (translating) Why would we take birth as an animal?
Prabhupada: Because you act like animal.
Hrdayananda: (translating) He says that in school in the material world, if one behaves badly, he has to stay where he is; he cannot progress. But he does not go back. So why...?
Prabhupada: No, sometimes he is given the down class. Sometimes he is degraded: "Go to the down class." Yes. That is quite natural. (laughter) Eh? Down? So any question?
Hrdayananda: (translating) He says he doesn't believe that one can go back.
Prabhupada: He may not believe in the law, but law is law. If somebody says "I can commit some criminal act, but I don't believe in the court's judgement," will it be accepted? You believe or not believe; the law will act. Just like if you infect some disease, infectious disease, if you contaminate, then you must develop that disease. That is the law. So we are contaminating ourself with different laws of material nature, and according to that law, we have to accept the body. The material laws are not under your control; you are under the control of material laws.
Hrdayananda: (translating) If also on other planets one has to continue changing bodies?
Prabhupada: Yes, the planets... There are different planets means different facilities of material convenience.
Hrdayananda: (translating) Who is in charge of giving us our next body?
Prabhupada: God. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati. God, in His Supersoul feature, He is situated in everyone's heart and he is seeing all our activities, and he is awarding the different kind of bodies. You can... If you like, you can find out this verse,
You can explain this. Find out. (Hrdayananda reads translations in Spanish) Purport? (Hrdayananda reads purport in Spanish) So we have to accept that we are fully under control. If childishly we say that we are independent, that is foolishness.
Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know if the senses, the material senses we now have, originally belong to the soul which has been covered by the material body.
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like a man is in a normal condition, but if he becomes mad, the same senses are there, but he's in abnormal condition. So when we are in this material world we using our senses in abnormal way. So when we cure the senses, we get into normal condition. That is spiritual life. So sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We have to give up all these designation of life and we have to become purified. Then we come to our normal condition.
Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know what are the characteristics of a person who has realized that he is not this body.
Prabhupada: Yes, he is engaged in Krsna consciousness. He doesn't know anything but Krsna. That is normal condi... [break] Thank you very much.
(Questions and answers with Spanish translator)
Hanuman (translates into Spanish throughout): (Spanish)
Prabhupada: Actually spiritual consciousness keeps the body fit. Just like in the body the spirit soul is there and the consciousness is also there, maybe polluted, but as soon as the spirit soul gives up this body, the body immediately begins to decompose. So the decomposition of the body is checked by the spiritual presence. So if you become advanced in spiritual consciousness there is no question of suffering from bodily disease.
Girl devotee: (translates Spanish) [break] ...along with the spirit soul can be realized?
Prabhupada: Yes, by your present position. You can simply take the information that the dimension of the spirit soul is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. Very small particle, that is spirit soul. The dimension is given. You have got your hair. You can just imagine only; you cannot measure. And you divide the top of your hair into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the measurement of the spirit soul. That small particle is so powerful. Just imagine what is spiritual power. It is less than the atom. Therefore it is described in the Vedic lit..., anor aniyan mahato mahiyan: "The spirit is greater than the greatest, and the smaller than the smallest."
Devotee: (Spanish)
Girl devotee: (translating from Spanish) He wants to know exactly what is the form of the body. If spirit soul is nonmaterial, what is the form?
Prabhupada: There is form. Just like this body is compared with the dress. Now, just like in your present material form you have got hand; therefore your coat has got hand. If you have got... You have got leg; therefore your pant has got leg. Therefore it is to be assumed that the spirit soul has got form, and it has developed into hands, legs, heads, everything. It is not formless; it has got form. But with our material eyes at the present, gross eyes, we cannot find it; therefore we say it has no form.
Devotee: (Spanish)
Girl devotee: Is Jesus in the parampara?
Prabhupada: Yes. He says, "There is God. I am son of God." That is parampara. Yes. Unfortunately nobody cares to follow Jesus Christ. That I must say. Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and Christians are very expert to kill. (laughter) They take pride in bullfighting. This is the position. So it is very difficult to find out a real Christian.
Man: (Spanish)
Hrdayananda: He wants to ask something which is not about you. (?)
Prabhupada: What is that?
Girl Devotee: (translating) At the present, I can't live in the temple, can't live in the asrama, but I can still see the devotees. What else can I do?
Prabhupada: You follow the temple procedure. You can remain anywhere. It doesn't matter. What is temple? They are following some rules and regulation. [break] If you are eating something and if you get a better thing, you'll give it up. So when one takes to bhakti means he understands the inferior quality of karma. So you take the superior quality activities and you forget inferior quality. Param drstva nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. This is the Vedic version. When one finds out superior engagement, he gives up inferior engagement.
Devotee or Guest: (Spanish)
Hrdayananda: He asked about heart transplants, where does the soul go in heart transplant, when they change the heart from one body to another body. He's asking about that.
Prabhupada: Heart changing?
Hanuman: No. Now they're doing this heart transplantation. They're taking the heart of one person...
Prabhupada: The soul changes from this heart to that heart. That's all. Just like you are running your car. It stops. Then you change, this car to that car. That's all. (laughter) This is it. It is very common thing.
Devotee or Guest: (Spanish)
Hrdayananda: If by purifying ourselves we feel our relationship that we have with the Supreme Personality of Godhead?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the center of purification.
Hanuman: Prabhupada, I would like to know, if there is no birth in the spiritual world, how do we re-enter the spiritual world?
Prabhupada: Hm? Birth means, first of all you take your birth where Krsna is now present. Krsna is present in one of the universes. There are innumerable universes. So you take your birth in the next universe, or where Krsna is now. Then you become trained up. And when you are trained up, then you personally go to Vaikuntha. No birth. Hm, what is that?
Hrdayananda: More questions and answers?
Prabhupada: If you like, I can go on. [break]
Hrdayananda: If there's another way to go to God. If there is another way.
Prabhupada: No. (laughter) Because it is stated in Bhagavad-gita,
Find out this.
Hrdayananda: (reads Spanish translation)
Prabhupada: Nobody is allowed to enter kingdom of God without becoming bhakta. [break] And there is no difficulty of becoming bhakta because the..., to become bhakta means four principles. One thing is to always think of Krsna. Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. That is bhakta. Simply by thinking of Krsna... That is Hare Krsna. When you chant Hare Krsna, you think of Krsna. You become bhakta immediately. Then after becoming man-mana bhava, mad-yaji: "You worship Me," mam namaskuru, "and offer obeisances." It is very simple thing. If you think of Krsna and if you offer little obeisances and if you worship Him, these three things will make you bhakta and you go back to home, back to Godhead. We are teaching this thing: chant Hare Krsna, offer obeisances unto Deity and worship. Finish all business. So why they should go to the jnana path? It requires so much knowledge and so much grammatical, so much nose pressing, so many things. You avoid all these things. Simply do these three things and you become bhakta. Why don't you take the easiest process and go back to home, back to Godhead? Thank you very much. (end)

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