Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.108 – November 16, 1975, Bombay

You do this. You sit down here.

Prabhupada: I was speaking in English, but now trying to practice to speak in Hindi. Hmm? [laughter]

Indian man: English is more popular, international. You must speak in English.

Prabhupada: That is a fact. All right, English.

Devotee: Jaya. Haribol.

Prabhupada: Jivera 'svarūpa' haya 'nitya-dasa'.

[noise of children] [aside: Not so... Enough.]

Krsnera 'tatastha-sakti' 'bhedabheda-prakasa' [Cc Madhya 20.108]. This is the philosophy, bhedabheda-prakasa. Bheda and abheda. Bheda means "different" and abheda means "one." There are two kinds of philosophy…, philosophers. One class of philosopher, they think that jiva, the living entity, and God, they are the same-abheda. And there are philosophers, they think God is different from the jivas. This is called bheda. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu concludes these two classes of philosophers into His own philosophy, acintya-bhedabheda, simultaneously one and different. Simultaneously jiva is one with God and different also from God. This is very conclusive and reasonable.

Just like Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, that mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ [Bg 15.7]: "All these living entities, they are minute part and particles of Me." There are many other instances, like the big fire and the small sparks of fire. So the small spark of fire and the big fire, they are one and different. As fire, it is as good as the big fire-means the fire capacity, burning capacity, is there. Even though small spark, there is burning capacity, as the big fire has. But as big fire and small fire, they are different. This is the right conclusion.

So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that actually the living entities, jivas, they are eternal servant of God. But their position is krsnera 'tatastha-sakti', marginal potency, bhedabheda-prakasa. The jiva is potency of Krsna. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

The matter and the spirit, two energies, that will be explained in the later, that the whole creation is manifestation of two energies: parasya brahmanaḥ saktis sarvedam akhilam jagat.

What is this world, creation, cosmic manifestation? Not only the material world; the spiritual world also. They are simply display of different energies of the Supreme Lord. Parasya saktir vividhaiva srūyate [Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8].

Parasya, "of the Supreme." He has got multi-energies, and they are divided into three principal categories: spiritual energy, material energy and marginal energy. The marginal energy is jiva. That is explained by Caitanya Mahaprabhu: krsnera 'tatastha-sakti' 'bhedabheda-prakasa' [Cc Madhya 20.108].

I have given several times the example when we walk on the beach: the same land is sometimes covered with water, and sometimes there is no water. This is called tatastha. Sometimes with water; sometimes with no water. That is called tatastha. The water is one side, land is one side, and in the beach, between the water and the land, there is a marginal potency, or marginal place, where sometimes it is water, sometimes it is without water.

So jiva, being very small particle of the original fire, Krsna, sometimes he is fall down. So when he falls down in the material world, he becomes extinguished of his spiritual energy. The same spark, it is in the fire, it is very beautiful, puff-puff, there is sparking. But as soon as the spark falls out of the fire, it is no more fire. Extinguished. Similarly, our position, being marginal, when we fall down from our Krsna consciousness, that is our material life. And when you do not fall from Krsna consciousness, that is our spiritual life. Anyone can understand very easily. Therefore tatastha-sakti, marginal. There is potency of falling down; therefore it is called tatastha. But when the jiva, or the spark, remains with the fire, there is no difference-both of them are fire. But when the jiva not remains with the fire, with Krsna or Brahman or Paramatma, then it becomes extinguished.

So Caitanya Mahaprabhu is giving another example:

Sūryamsa-kirana. Just like the sun and the sunshine. The sunshine is also sun, because the sun cannot be without sunshine. That is not possible. Wherever there is sun, there is sunshine also. Sūryamsa-kirana, yaiche agni-jvala-caya. The small molecules, bright molecules, they are combined together, they are called the rays of the sun. And in the sun proper there is regular fire. Every scientist knows that it is a fiery planet. Agni-jvala-caya, svabhavika krsnera tina-prakara 'sakti' haya. So similarly, Krsna has got naturally three kinds of potencies. That potencies are manifested in different categories, but on the whole, they are three: the spiritual energy, the material energy and the marginal energy.

The jiva, we, we are also energy. We are not energetic. We are energy, marginal energy. We may remain in the spiritual world or we may remain in the material world-that is our choice. Therefore Krsna, out of His compassion to the marginal energy, the jivas, He comes down. When we completely forget our eternal relationship with Krsna, then Krsna comes. That is called,

Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. If the finger is cut off from this body, it has no value-we understand it very easily; nobody will care for it. But so long the finger is attached with my body, it is very valuable. If there is any trouble, I shall spend thousands of rupees for cure of the disease. But when it is cut off, amputate, it will lie down on the street and somebody tramples over it, I don't protest-because it is out of touch.

So dharmasya glanir bhavati. We are part and parcel of Krsna. When we are detached from Krsna, then we are valueless. You have no value. You are simply a play in the hands of maya.

We are completely under the laws of the prakrti, material nature, and we have no independence. The prakrti, material nature, by pulling by the ear, she is dictating, "You do this. You sit down here." You have to do it. Just like a criminal, when he is in the custody of police, he has to do according to the order of the police. This is our position.

So this is dharmasya glanir. Why this position? That we do not inquire. We have become so foolish under the influence of maya that we do not inquire even that "Why I am put into this miserable condition of life although I do not want it?" Nobody wants. Nobody wants the threefold miseries of material world: adhyatmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. But it is forced upon us. But we have become so fool, still you are declaring independence. What is the value of your independence? You are completely under control of material nature. Then why you are under the completely...

Simply by false prestige or false egotism we are thinking, "We are independent. We can do anything, whatever we like." That is the disease. This is called dharmasya glanir. Actually he is independent in his spiritual nature. He is independent, as God is independent. Of course, he is not so independent. But the same example: as the original, big fire has got burning capacity, similarly the small spark, that is also…, has also got the burning capacity. So, so far burning capacity is concerned, there is. Similarly, God is fully independent, svarat. Svarat. God is described in the Bhagavatam, janmady asya yataḥ anvayat itaratas ca arthesu abhijnaḥ svarat. God's another qualification is svarat, fully independent. So we are part and parcel of God, so we have also got independence. That's a fact. Because the part and parcel of gold is gold. So we have got independence. When we misuse this independence, then we are in this material world. When you don't misuse this independence, then we are in the spiritual world.

Therefore it is said, jivera 'svarūpa' haya-krsnera 'nitya-dasa' [Cc Madhya 20.108]. Actually, a living entity's position is eternal servant of God. Just like a servant: when he is obedient servant, he is very favorite of the master. And as soon as he disobeys, or if he wants to imitate the master, then he is dismissed. He is dismissed. Similarly, when we want independently to become Krsna, that is our disease. Therefore in the material world, first of all we try to become very first-class leader, then lord minister, and so on, so on. Then at last we want to become God. The same imitation. That is the last snare of maya, that "Why you shall serve God? This is" what is called-"service mentality, slavish mentality. You just become God." This is the maya dictation to keep him under the control of maya. This is. Therefore he thinks that "I am God." He is not even a dog; still he thinks that he is God. So this is the disease. This is called dharmasya glanir. Because his real position is to remain eternal servant of God. That he derides: "No. I shall become God." That is material disease. So this is called dharmasya glanir.

Just like… There are many so nice examples. Just like these fingers. It picks up some nice foodstuff. So it cannot…, the fingers cannot eat. Its duty is to pick up and put here. That is natural. If he does not-"Why shall I give it to the mouth?" he'll spoil it. Rasagulla, it will be spoiled simply by smashing. It will not... And if it is given to the stomach, then it goes to the stomach; then all the fingers become nourished. Not only these fingers, these fingers-others, everyone satisfied.

This is the sastric injunction. Just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, the tree…, water is immediately distributed to the leaves, twigs, flowers, everywhere. The tree becomes rejuvenated simply by watering on the root. Similarly, if you put foodstuff in the stomach, the energy is immediately distributed throughout the whole body. Similarly, tatha acyutejya. Simply by satisfying Krsna, you satisfy everyone. So you do not require to satisfy everyone separately. Therefore Krsna says,

He teaches this. This is the last word in the Bhagavad-gita. And when you do not do that-we think otherwise-that is dharmasya glanir. Therefore Krsna comes.

When one forgets Krsna and manufactures so many plans of service, the whole thing becomes spoiled. This is going on. Throughout the whole world they are making plan-humanitarianism, this -ism, that -ism, philanthropism-and no Krsna-ism. Except Krsna-ism. Therefore all their plans are becoming foiled. This is the disease. So Krsna says that yada yada hi dharmasya... This is dharmasya glanir. We do not know what is dharma, and we violate the orders of Krsna. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the order of God. That is dharma. Two words, the definition of dharma. There are so many definitions of dharma, but real dharma, as we understand from the Vedic scripture, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam. The order given by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, adharma.

So as sincere servant of Krsna, we have to abide by the orders of Krsna and act accordingly. Then everything will be peaceful; everything will be in order. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita.

If you want to become happy and peaceful, then you accept this theory. Not theory; it is fact that Krsna is the Supreme Lord. He is the enjoyer. Just like here is Krsna. He is enjoying. He is playing on His flute along with Radharani. This is enjoyment. Anandamayo 'bhyasat. [Vedanta-sūtra 1.1.12] And we are servants. We are trying to: "How Krsna will be placed in a nice temple? How Krsna will be offered nice foodstuff? Let us go out. Let us bring some means of sustaining this temple." Everyone, we are engaged. Simply Krsna is enjoying. This is the position. Krsna does not go to sell our books. We go, because we are servant. And whatever means we get, we spend for Krsna. This is real our position. We have to learn this position. This Krsna consciousness movement means the same thing as it is stated in the sastra or anywhere: vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg 15.15].

That is stated. Veda. What is Veda? Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jnane. So what is that knowledge? The knowledge is to understand Krsna. That is knowledge. If you don't understand Krsna, then everything is no knowledge. It is foolishness. Therefore Krsna says,

That is mahatma: one who understands Krsna.

These are the instructions. So simply try to understand Krsna and our position in relationship with Krsna. That is being explained by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He is Krsna. Krsna, krsna-caitanya-namne [Cc Madhya 19.53]. He has again come. Five thousand years Krsna came, and He gave us the instruction in the Bhagavad-gita and left behind Him that "You study Bhagavad-gita. Try to understand your relationship with Krsna. Act accordingly, and be happy." The Bhagavad-gita was left, but unfortunately we misinterpreted Bhagavad-gita; we misled others. The so-called politicians, so-called, I mean to say, scholars, they misled people by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gita, and people are in the wilderness. So our humble attempt is to re-establish the Bhagavad-gita as it is. That will make the people happy all over the world. Krsna does not speak for any particular man or society or religious group or country. No. Krsna is God. Whatever He speaks, that is applicable to everyone. That is being proved. Because we are placing Bhagavad-gita as it is, it is being accepted all over the world. That's a fact. It is not story. These Europeans, Americans, they are... Why they are accepting Krsna? Because Krsna…, the devotion for Krsna is there already, because we are part and parcel of Krsna. That is natural.

This is the process. We have got eternal relationship with Krsna. As it is said by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, jivera 'svarūpa' haya-krsnera 'nitya-dasa' [Cc Madhya 20.108]. We are eternal servant of Krsna, part and parcel of Krsna. How it can be divided? No. It cannot be. We have simply forgotten. Therefore Caitanya-caritamrtakara, [the author] He says, nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti: "My love for Krsna, my devotion for Krsna, is natural." It is not artificial. These Europeans, Americans, they have become Krsna devotee not artificially. They have taken it seriously. Because the relationship eternal. Either you take birth in America or Czechoslovakia or in India, the krsna-bhakti is there. Simply you have forgotten. So sravanadi-suddha-citte. If we simply hear about Krsna, then we can understand, "Oh, I am eternally related with Krsna. I did forgot Krsna." That's all. So this Krsna consciousness movement means we are reviving the original consciousness, Krsna consciousness. Therefore we have particularly named "Krsna consciousness."

So svabhavika krsnera tina-prakara 'sakti' haya [Cc Madhya 20.109]. Now Caitanya Mahaprabhu is explaining that svabhavika, natural. Naturally Krsna has got three energies: apara... Primarily para and apara, Krsna has explained in the Bhagavad-gita. And the marginal potency also, the para-prakrti. That is confirmed by Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita:

Para-prakrti.

So Caitanya Mahaprabhu is quoting another verse from Visnu Purana. This is a quotation from the Visnu Purana, 1.22.53. What is that quotation?

This is real teacher. A real teacher will never say whimsically, "I think," "In my opinion." No. He is not a teacher; he's a cheater. You cannot manufacture anything, because we are imperfect. All our senses are imperfect. We are put into mistaken condition, illusory condition. And in spite of all our defects, we want to cheat people by so-called theories: "I think," or "It may be," "Perhaps." These are the, our... But that is not accepted. In the Vedic culture no such thing will be accepted, that "I think," "In my opinion," "Perhaps," "Maybe." These nonsense will never be accepted. The real knowledge: from Vedic quotation. Then, therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu, although He is Krsna Himself... Even Krsna Himself, He said that,

He says. He is giving reference to the Vedanta. Vedanta's another name is Brahma-sūtra. So Krsna says, "These things have been very logically proved in the Vedanta-sūtra philosophy." He says,

So you cannot make any conclusion or I cannot make any conclusion. Krsna also says, although He is God; He can say. Whatever He says, that is Veda. Still, He is giving reference to the brahma-sūtra. Similarly, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as soon as He says that the living entity is marginal potency of the Supreme Lord, He is giving immediately quotation from Visnu Purana. This is scholarly. This is scholarly. This we have to accept. He is supporting veda-pramana, sruti-pramana. [Vedic evidence] Amongst the Vedic scholars, whatever you say, you must give proof from the Vedas. Then it is perfect. You cannot say, "In my opinion," "I have manufactured this philosophy." That is useless.

So here is quotation:

This akhilam jagat, the entire cosmic manifestation, is simply manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Lord. That is, Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants to give proof. Energy. Just like here is light, the energy of the electric bulb or the electric light. So when there is light, we understand immediately there is electric bulb. Similarly, if you can appreciate the energy of the Supreme Lord, then you cannot become atheist. There is God. By the… Just like in the morning, when there is glimpse of sunlight, immediately you understand there is sun. You do not require to see whether there is sun or not. Simply by the light you can understand, "Now the sun is rising." Similarly, you see how the energy of Krsna is working. Parasya brahmanaḥ sakti. Then you can understand, "There is Krsna." The... Simply by energy. Akhilam jagat. The whole cosmic manifestation is nothing but distribution of different energy. Just like what is this material world? It is the distribution of the energy of the sun. That, a scientist will accept that. Due to the sunshine, due to the heat of the sun, the…, according to their theory, the planets are moving. They have got a instrument-I forget the name of the instrument-as soon as there is little heat, within that instrument there are small balls, they began to jump. So that is the proof that due to the energy of the sun, the whole material world is being maintained. As soon as there is less sunlight, immediately the trees become without any foliage. We have seen in Western countries: as soon as there is no sunlight, only snow, they become simply leafless. Again in the spring, all of a sudden, as soon as there is heat, all the trees become full with foliage.

So this is due to the sunlight and heat. Similarly, as ordinarily the one sun is in this universe, there are millions of suns and millions of universes. Similarly the original sun is Krsna. Original.

Krsna-sūrya-sama. Darkness. We can experience that on account of sunshine the trees are full of green leaves. And in the absence of sunshine they all become faded away and fallen. Similarly the whole world, cosmic manifestation, is going on on account of two energies of the Supreme Lord-or three energies: one marginal-the spiritual energy and the material energy. Parasya brahmanaḥ sakti. Sakti means energy.

So it is very easy. Nobody can become atheist or godless if he is sane man. That here the energy is working; here is the heat and light, so there must be the source of heat and light. That is stated in the Visnu Purana: eka-desa. Eka-desa. Krsna is situated in His own abode. That's a fact. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilatma-bhūtaḥ. But He is all-pervading by His energy. Just like the sun is situated in one place. Everyone can see. But the sunshine, the heat and light, is distributed all over the world, all over the universe. Similarly, Krsna is enjoying in His abode.

He is situated in Goloka Vrndavana. He is enjoying.

This is the Vedic instruction. Even His full energy is distributed all over the world, still He is full. That is Krsna.

If you have got some energy, you have got some money, if it is spent one after another, then it becomes zero. Krsna is not like that. Just like you can see for millions and millions of years the sun is giving you heat and light; still it is full. Anyone can... This is a material thing. And what about the Supreme Spirit? That you have to understand. Krsna never becomes diminished. He is full.

This is spiritual. One minus one equal to one. One plus one equal to one. This is spiritual understanding. So parasya brahmanaḥ sakti. So Krsna is all-pervading. The Mayavadi philosophers, they think, "If God is all-pervading, He is distributed everywhere, then where is His form? There is no form." No. That is miscalculation. We are thinking God as something material. Just like if you take a big piece of paper and tear it into small pieces and throw it, then the big paper is lost. No. God is not like that.

You may take, take out the whole thing many times-still He is whole. That is God. So here it is said,

His sakti is... Parasya saktir vividhaiva srūyate. His sakti, His energy, is never lost. It is always full. You can go on. The example is the sun. So much energy is being distributed for millions and millions of years; still it is full with fire and heat and light. So if it is possible for ordinary material object, and what to speak of Krsna? This is to be understood. So when you forget all these things, when we misunderstand Krsna, then we remain in this blackness of material world. And if we understand Krsna properly, janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ [Bg 4.9], then you become liberated.

So Krsna is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gita. Try to understand Krsna, and you become liberated and be saved from this material existence. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Then you purify your existence and you come to your spiritual, original position and become free from material miserable condition of life, birth, death, old age and disease.

Thank you very much. [end]