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Prabhupada: ...free. Free education, why they'll not accept?

Gopala Krsna: Free education they will.

Prabhupada: It is free.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: It is free education.

Prabhupada: It is free. We are asking people, "Come here, live here, take this education."

Guest (1): Nobody pays anything.

Prabhupada: It is free. Everything is free. We are not going to charge anything. Retired man, come here, take this spiritual education. This is our whole system. [greets guest] Hare Krsna.

Dr. Patel: Hare Krsna.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Jaya.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Why they'll not do? Just think over this. Hare Krsna.

Gopala Krsna: We have given this main point to our lawyers, and this is what we are working on.

Prabhupada: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg 2.13]. It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Krsna said, kaumaram yauvanam jara. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Mussalman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea, that only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal-headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam... [Bg 2.13]. Krsna said from boyhood to yauvanam. It is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, "Why you bring this Hindu idea?" How much dull they are, just imagine.

Dr. Patel: I don't think it is dullness. It is fanaticism maybe.

Prabhupada: And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dull-headed rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dull-headed. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca jana na vidur asurah, na saucam napi cacarah [Bg 16.7]. This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. [Transl. Just like pigs. They have no proper behavior. They live in filthy places. And do not discriminate whether mother, sister or daughter, just have sex with anybody. Whole day they wander about looking for stool and fill their stomach with it.] That is especially mentioned, that ayam deha. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1].

This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. [Transl. Work whole day, eat sumptuously withour discrimination, and when you are fat and healthy, have sex.] Bas. Sex. No discrimination. [Transl. No consideration whether mother, sister or daughter. Can have sex with anyone. Nowadays big, big so-called learned people…[aside:] Come in. …they say that] Sex is a bodily..., what is the...

Dr. Patel: Necessity of life. Biological necessity.

Prabhupada: Necessity. "What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there?" They say like that?

Dr. Patel: They consider themselves to be animals.

Prabhupada: They are animals. Why consider? They are animals. Therefore sastra says vid-bhujam. Not ordinary animals. A pig, animal. Pig. [Transl. The whole society has degraded so much. And we are preaching our movement in such a condition.] Animal society. Dvipada-pasu. [Transl. If you tell them…] We'll say that "Why you are wasting your time in this so-called material advancement? Wasting." How they'll understand? So dull head. [Transl. If you advice a pig, "Why are you eating stool? Eat nice halvah." Will the stupid pig eat it? It will eat stool only.]

Dr. Patel: [laughs] You're right. The modern civilization is the materialists, veda is material. Veda is body consciousness.

Prabhupada: That means hog civilization. It is hog civilization.

Dr. Patel: ...is the deterioration the civilization of Vedas. We have lost the Vedic mooring, unfortunately.

Prabhupada: Why India should lost? India is the hope of the whole world, and their men have now become pig, son of pigs.. That is my regret. Others may be, but why Indians? Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said,

Bharata-bhumi, you don't become hogs and asses. You make your life...

Dr. Patel: We have become, sir, in a way, because we have...

Prabhupada: Anyway, you should check now.

Dr. Patel: Our system has been...

Prabhupada: You should check now. You should revive now.

Dr. Patel: The Vedic education is the base of our making a man. I mean, truly a good man.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Whatever has happened has happened. Now they should adopt it.]

Guest (2): No, we should check it. That is no point.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You have degraded to hog life doesn't mean you remain like that. Act like human beings.]

[chants japa]

[break] Hindu idea. Hindu idea. [break] You know that? Fetus [pronounces "fettus"] or fetus? What is that? Killing, killing and eating.

Dr. Patel: Somebody told. You or somebody. No?

Prabhupada: No, not somebody. Everybody says. Not some. Everyone knows. It is common practice. Delicacy.

Dr. Patel: The idea is so abominable to our culture.

Prabhupada: Abominable... [Transl. therefore we call them hogs.] Hog's activity's all abominable.

Dr. Patel: But this idea of eating a fetus is extremely abominable. You can't think of it. I mean a baby having developed, we can't imagine.

Prabhupada: But you must know it.

Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.

Prabhupada: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in..., sometime in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Gauna.

Dr. Patel: Ghungat, ghungat.

Prabhupada: No, no. Gauna. After... Because formerly the girls were married early. So after getting puberty there is one ceremony, it is called dvitiya vivaha. Another ceremony. And then she goes to her husband's house. So she was going there with presentation of father, mother. So she was covered. So another young girl, up-to-date, she was doing like this. They were girls. One can touch . So once, twice. When it made thrice, that village girl slapped her, "Hut!" I said, "Yes, you have done right." She was thinking..., the city girl was thinking, "What is this nonsense?" She wanted to criticize. [laughs]

Kartikeya Mahadevia: She got a slap.

Prabhupada: And she gave a good slap. I've seen it. She's up-to-date, and she became surprised. Lifting the avagunthana. So the whole train, they became laughed. And woman, the shyness is the only protection for them.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Shyness.

Dr. Patel: Modesty.

Prabhupada: Modesty. There is no modesty left. Anyway, and that is her beauty. But we are breaking that. There is no beauty, no attraction. And as soon as you break this modesty, shyness, then the woman will create devastation.

Dr. Patel: Yes. They have been. They have finished now.

Hari-sauri: There's no carpet to sit down in front of... [indistinct]. It's disappeared. Oh, here it is.

Dr. Patel: No, if you sit down, these swellings will become less on the feet. Walking, it is heavy?

Prabhupada: No, a little movement.

Dr. Patel: We got your this thing examined. You haven't got much diabetes now. But unfortunately kidneys are...

Prabhupada: I'm not eating much.

Dr. Patel: No, after kidneys are little affected. It was lack of albumen, and perhaps you'll be all right by this satavari You know this satavari? Satavari growing in our own garden here. That Pandita Siva Sharma will be coming on Thursday at six o'clock. Pandita Siva Sharma. He is very well known...

Prabhupada: What is a satavari you see. If it is medicine, we can have.

Dr. Patel: He will guide you better than me. At six o'clock we have to send somebody to catch him on his consulting. He is sitting in the court. He stays somewhere... His house number is 36. So he must be staying somewhere [indistinct]

Guest (2): If they let me know, I can bring him.

Dr. Patel: He has already given time, six o'clock. If you can go and bring him at six o'clock...

Guest (2): No, then they will have to come from all the way here.

Dr. Patel: No, no. He will be coming here. [break]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is the duty, to convert pigs into human beings.] This is fact. The whole world has become pigs. [Transl. And we have to turn them into human beings. This is welfare activity.] Including India. It is not that India is now human being. No. India has also become pig. So it is a great service. This is the only service to the human society. And to keep them pig and organizing United Nation-what the pigs will unite?

Dr. Patel: United Nation of pigs. [laughter]

Prabhupada: Yes. So how it will be successful?

Dr. Patel: That is all they have. This is disunited nation, not united nation.

Prabhupada: I said in some public meeting in Melbourne, "The United Nation is the assembly of some dogs. They are barking."

Dr. Patel: They have been so. They all have been in a way. Sardar Patel was saying.

Prabhupada: And newspapermen added, "The Swami has come to hound you." [laughter] Eh? What is that?

Hari-sauri: "His Divine Grace is here to hound us."

Prabhupada: Hound. Yes. So I attacked the whole United Nation, and so they attacked me also.

Dr. Patel: No, we have seen the League of Nations was even better than the United Nations. They are all really fighting among themselves very badly.

Prabhupada: Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg 18.54]. Unless they are spiritually elevated, they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg 5.18]. Simply by stamping.

Dr. Patel: And there is another class of...

Prabhupada: Gandhi became mahatma, but his mission was, "Get out. Englishmen, get out." Where is samah sarvesu bhutesu? He declared himself mahatma, but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.

Dr. Patel: Sir, he, I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you. He never hated Englishmen. It's their method he wanted to drive out.

Prabhupada: "I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes." [laughter]

Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them with shoes. He said, "Well, we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way, I suppose. I'm open to correction.

Prabhupada: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly, again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business; he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair[?], now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. [laughter]

Dr. Patel: English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of... Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is... I'm sorry, sir...

Prabhupada: Therefore why mahatma? The same business you are doing, why you say mahatma? If you are doing the same business...

Dr. Patel: He never called himself mahatma. People called him mahatma.

Prabhupada: He liked to enjoy it. He liked to enjoy it. That's all. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg 9.13]. Mahatma has no business to this... [break] ...fact, the present position of India, it is not very good. But we can do that. We have got the means. If we make propaganda village to village... Still, the villagers, they are unpolluted; they can be recovered. Still, when we hold meeting of Krsna consciousness, thousands of men come. And that our Hyderabad land is very suitable for this purpose.

Devotee: The thing is, Prabhupada, in India they know that materialism is wrong because they've been educated.

Prabhupada: Yes. But they are being educated that materialism is good, and this so-called spiritual... They do not recognize the spiritual movement. Our government do not recognize any spiritual movement.

Dr. Patel: They interpret secularism as no religion. Rather equal truth to all religions is the real meaning of secularism. The government tries to pamper the minority... [break]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Combine together and lift India.] ...world will be benefited. Still people observe India.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: If it is told most people are prepared who accept it.

Prabhupada: No, why these boys are attracted? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vrndavana, Mayapur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Willingdon, he [she] challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Willingdon.

Willingdon was Viceroy. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become M.R., C.P., to become this and that, and they became here big men. So "Why you people come here to teach us?" This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb subha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and subha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Shobhabazzar Raj family. So the head of that family, some Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clive was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clive saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate. All right, I'll make you a king." Britishers, they were giving title, "king." So he was given the title Raj. So the whole family is Shobhabazzar Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk.

Why people will not say saheb subha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocrats. So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers-except the Tagore family. They were from the Muhammadan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. Saheb subha. If you meet one Englishman, then your fortune is... I think Bombay was there also.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: There are many families among those, even today.

Prabhupada: There are many Parsi families. But they wanted some friends. They were minority. Unless with the cooperation of the Indians, how they could stand? Therefore they introduced the zamindari system in Bengal, Bihar, Orissa. Some aristocratic families should cooperate with them. They knew how to rule over. Now by over-cooperating they have become hoax. That verse I very much like.

The human life is meant for purifying. They have lost this goal of life. Temporarily we are thinking if we make some comfortable arrangement for body, and that is sufficient. That is sufficient. Lost Vedic culture, ideal of life, goal of life. [Transl. That has to be rectified.] At least in India it should. In foreign countries they are... Therefore this movement's against them. Because we are preaching this philosophy just opposite to their views, they are taking it "brainwashed." Is that all right in your country?

Devotee: They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually...

Prabhupada: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog, that is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead-simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mam aprapya nivartante mrtyu-samsara vartmani [Bg 9.3]. Who can understand this? [Transl. If one has not obtained the Supreme Lord then he has] to return [Transl. again] to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. [Transl. And they are big, big Gita scholars! What do you say Doctor sahib? Who understands that] If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness, then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death.

Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that, in the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar... [Transl. If someone advices a pig…] There is a narration, Brahma came, and Indra became, by the curse of Brhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. So Brahmaji came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No, no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my this female suarni?" [laughter]

Dr. Patel: I like this tale.

Prabhupada: Then Brahma began to kill his suarni [female pig] and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a narration like that. Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this tamo-guna, he became happy in the high life of pig.

Dr. Patel: Maya duratyaya. Mama maya duratyaya. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg 7.14].

Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [break]

Srutasrava: The governor there, he was making a statement that most institutions in California like hospitals and places like this, they are simply torture chambers. So he made one request that people like priests and monks and Hare Krsna devotees, if they could go to these places and try to help people.

Prabhupada: We are prepared. If they give us in charge, we are prepared.

Srutasrava: So on Christmas day Ramesvara Maharaja was planning that many devotees could go there and distribute prasada and some literatures.

Prabhupada: We can cure them from material and spiritual diseases. They are now trying to cure them from material ailments. We can cure them from spiritual ailments. Actually, the ailment is spiritual. Material is symptom. [end]