Prabhupada: ...free. Free education, why they'll not accept?

Gopala Krsna: Free education they will.

Prabhupada: It is free.

Guest (1): It is free education.

Prabhupada: It is free. We are asking people come here, live here, take this education.

Guest (1): Nobody pays anything.

Prabhupada: It is free. Everything is free. We are not going to charge anything. Retired man, come here, take this spiritual education. This is our whole system. Hare Krsna!

Guest (2): Jaya.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Why they'll not do? Just think over this. Hare Krsna.

Gopala Krsna: We have given this main point to our lawyers and this is what we are working on.

Prabhupada: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Krsna said kaumaram yauvanam jara. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. Krsna said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.

Dr. Patel: I don't think it is dullness. It is fanaticism maybe.

Prabhupada: And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dullheaded rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dullheaded. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca jana na vidur asurah, na saucam napi cacarah [Bg. 16.7]. This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. (Hindi) That is especially mentioned. That ayam deha. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. (Hindi) Sex. No discrimination. (Hindi) Sex is a bodily, what is the...

Guest (1): Necessity of life.

Dr. Patel: Biological necessity.

Prabhupada: Necessity. What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there? They say like that?

Dr. Patel: They consider themselves to be animals.

Prabhupada: They are animals. Why consider? They are animals. Therefore sastra says vid-bhujam. Not ordinary animals. A sewer animal. Sewer. (Hindi) Animal society. Dvipada-pasu. We'll say that "Why you are wasting your time in this so-called material advancement?" How they'll understand? So dull head. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (laughs) You're right. The modern civilization is the materialists, veda is material. Veda is body consciousness.

Prabhupada: That means sewer civilization. It is sewer civilization.

Dr. Patel: ...is only the civilization of Vedas. We have lost the Vedic mooring.

Prabhupada: Why India should lost? India is the hope of the whole world and their men have now become sewer, sewer kavaca. That is my regret. Others may be, but why Indians? Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said,

Dr. Patel: We have become, sir, in a way, because we have...

Prabhupada: Anyway, you should check now.

Dr. Patel: Our system has been...

Prabhupada: You should check now. You should revive now.

Dr. Patel: The Vedic civilization is the base of our making a man. I mean, truly a good man.

Prabhupada: (Hindi)

Guest (2): No, we should check it. That is the point.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) (chants japa) [break] Hindu idea. Hindu idea. [break] You know that? fetus? What is that? Killing and eating.

Dr. Patel: Somebody told. You or somebody. No?

Prabhupada: No, not somebody. Everybody says. Not some. Everyone knows. It is common practice. Delicacy.

Dr. Patel: The idea is so abominable to our culture.

Prabhupada: (Hindi) Sewers activity's all abominable.

Dr. Patel: But this idea of eating a fetus is extremely abominable. You can't think of it. I mean a baby having developed, we can't imagine.

Prabhupada: But you must know it. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.

Prabhupada: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in, sometimes in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Kane.

Dr. Patel: Gomath, gangath.(?)

Prabhupada: No no. Kane. After... Because formerly the girls were married early. So after getting puberty there is one ceremony, it is called diti-abhi-bha.(?) Another ceremony. And then she goes to her husband's house. So she was going there with presentation of father, mother. So she was covered. So another young girl, up-to-date, she was doing like this. They were girls. One can touch another. So once, twice. When it made thrice, that village girl slapped her, "Hut!" I said, "Yes, you have done right." She was thinking, the city girl was thinking, "What is this nonsense?" She wanted to criticize... (laughs)

Guest (1): She got a slap.

Prabhupada: And she gave a good slap. I've seen it. She's up-to-date and she became surprised. Lifting the avagunthana. So the whole train, they became laughed. And woman, the shyness is the only protection for them.

Guest (1): Shyness.

Dr. Patel: Modesty.

Prabhupada: Modesty. There is no modesty left. Anyway, and that is the beauty. But we are breaking that. There is no beauty, no attraction. And as soon as you break this modesty, shyness, then the woman will create devastation.

Dr. Patel: Yes. They have been. They have finished now.

Hari-sauri: There's no carpet to sit down in front of... Oh, here it is.

Dr. Patel: No, If you sit down, these swellings will become less on the feet.

Prabhupada: No, a little movement.

Dr. Patel: We got your examined. You haven't got much diabetes now. But unfortunately kidneys are...

Prabhupada: I'm not eating all.

Dr. Patel: No, after kidneys are little affected. It was lack of albumen and perhaps you'll be all right by this shapauri.(?) You know this shapauri. Shapauri's growing in our own garden here. That (indistinct) will be coming on first day at six o'clock.

Prabhupada: What is that satavari,(?) you see. If it is medicine, we can have.

Dr. Patel: He will guide you better than me. At six o'clock we have to send somebody to catch him on his consulting. He stays somewhere... His house number is 36.

Guest (2): If they let me know I can bring him.

Dr. Patel: He has already given time, six o'clock. If you can go and bring him at six o'clock...

Guest (2): No, then they will have to come from all the way here.

Dr. Patel: No, no. He will be coming here. [break]

Prabhupada: (Hindi) This is fact. The whole world has become sewer. (Hindi) Including India. It is not that India is now human being. No. India has also become sewer. So it is a great service. This is the only service to the human society. And to keep them sewer and organizing United Nations. What the sewer will unite?

Dr. Patel: United Nation of sewers. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Yes. So how it will be successful?

Guest (1): That is all they have. This is disunited nation, not united nation.

Prabhupada: I said in some public meeting in Melbourne, "The United Nation is the assembly of some dogs. They are barking." And newspapermen added, "The Swami has come to hound you." (laughter) Eh? What is that?

Hari-sauri: "His Divine Grace is here to hound us."

Prabhupada: Hound. Yes. So I attacked the whole United Nations, and so they attacked me also.

Dr. Patel: No, we have seen the League of Nations was even better than the United Nations. They are all really fighting among themselves very badly.

Prabhupada: Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Unless they are spiritually elevated they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. Panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18]. Simply by stamping.

Dr. Patel: And there is another class of...

Prabhupada: Gandhi became mahatma, but his mission was, "Get out, Englishmen, get out." Where is samah sarvesu bhutesu? He declared himself mahatma, but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.

Dr. Patel: Sir, he, I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you. He never hated Englishmen. It's their method he wanted to drive out.

Prabhupada: I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them the shoes. He said, "Well we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way I suppose. I'm open to correction.

Prabhupada: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business, he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of... Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is... I'm sorry, sir...

Prabhupada: Therefore why mahatma? The same business you are doing, why you say mahatma? If you are doing the same business...

Dr. Patel: He never called himself mahatma. People called him mahatma.

Prabhupada: He liked to enjoy it. He liked to enjoy it. That's all. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Mahatma has no business to this... [break] ...fact, the present position of India, it is not very good. But we can do that. We have got the means. If we make propaganda village to village. Still, the villagers, they are unpolluted, they can be recovered. Still, when we hold meeting of Krsna consciousness, thousands of men come. And that, our Hyderabad land is very suitable for this purpose.

Devotee: The thing is, Prabhupada, in India they know that materialism is wrong because they've been educated.

Prabhupada: Yes. But they are being educated that materialism is good, and this so-called spiritual... They do not recognize the spiritual movement. Our government do not recognize any spiritual movement.

Dr. Patel: They interpret secularism as no religion. Rather equal truth to all religions is the real meaning of secularism. The Government tries... [break]

Prabhupada: (indistinct) ...world will be benefited. Still people observe India.

Guest (1): If it is told by (indistinct) who accept it.

Prabhupada: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vrndavana, Mayapura. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become MS, CP, to become this and that, and they became here big men. So why you people come here to teach us? This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb subha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and subha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga (?) Raj family. So the head of that family, Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clyde was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clyde saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate, all right I'll make you a king." Britishers they were giving title, king. So he was given the title Raja. So the whole family is Saubhaga (?) Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk. Why people will not say saheb subha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocratic... So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers. Except the Tagore family. They were from the Mohammedan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. Saheb subha. If you meet one Englishman then your fortune is... I think Bombay was there also.

Guest (1): There are many families among those even today.

Prabhupada: There are many Parsi families. But they wanted some friends. They were minority. Unless with the cooperation of the Indians, how they could stand? Therefore they introduced the zamindar system in Bengal, Bihar, Orissa. Some aristocratic families should cooperate with them. They knew how to rule over. Now by over-cooperating they have become hoax. That verse I very much like.

Devotee: They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually...

Prabhupada: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead, simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mam aprapya nivartante mrtyu-samsara vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Who can understand this? (Hindi) to return (Hindi) to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. (Hindi) If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death. Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is sewer position. A sewer cannot understand. The men have become like that. In the name of so-called civilization. Can a sewer understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the sewer? Sewer (Hindi) There is a narration, Brahma came, and Indra became, by the curse of Brhaspati, became a sewer. So he was living in the forest as sewer. Brahmaji came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my, this sewer?" (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I like this tale.

Prabhupada: Then Brahma began to kill his sewerni (?) and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a (indistinct). Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this tamo-guna, he became happy in the high life of sewer.

Dr. Patel: Maya duratyaya. Mama maya duratyaya. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg. 7.14].

Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [break]

Srutasrava: The governor there, he was making a statement that most institutions in California like hospitals and places like this, they are simply torture chambers. So he made one request that people like priests and monks and Hare Krsna devotees, if they could go to these places and try to help people.

Prabhupada: We are prepared. If they give us in charge, we are prepared.

Srutasrava: So in Christmas day Ramesvara Maharaja was planning that many devotees could go there and distribute prasada and some literatures.

Prabhupada: We can cure them from material and spiritual diseases. They are now trying to cure them from material ailments. We can cure them from spiritual ailments. Actually, the ailment is spiritual. Material is symptom. (end)