760704MW.WDC

[in car: loud tape of "Hare Krishna Happening" Album, with Prabhupada chanting, playing in background]

Rupanuga: ...and how we danced at the end? You were dancing with karatalas when you were listening to the record.

Prabhupada: Now we have got our own studio. We also do. What is his name? Allen?

Rupanuga: Ginsberg?

Prabhupada: No, no, no.

Rupanuga: Oh, Kallman.

Prabhupada: Oh, Kallman, yes. So last time in India, he gave me twenty-five thousand rupees. [laughs]

Rupanuga: He did? Wow, twenty-five thousand! He still has the original tape of this record.

Prabhupada: Let him now do. He wanted to pay me something, but he never paid.

Pusta Krsna: I sent Krsna-kanti... He made a..., recorded this in South Africa and printed it. It's not actually legal, but we did it because we didn't think it would... This is the most wonderful record for spreading Krsna consciousness, because you are chanting Hare Krsna. So pure.

Prabhupada: Yes. Originally.

Pusta Krsna: People can more appreciate Hare Krsna than these bhajanas, because they don't understand.

Prabhupada: Bhajana, they understand... [break] ...Kirtanananda, you...

Rupanuga: Brahmananda.

Prabhupada: Brahmananda also?

Rupanuga: Yes, he's singing. Satsvarupa. Hayagriva was there also.

Prabhupada: Hayagriva was there.

Rupanuga: And Jadurani was there. We were playing all kinds of instruments, all kinds of things. [laughs] We were playing bells and sticks.

Prabhupada: Kirtanananda was playing sitar.

Rupanuga: Yes.

Prabhupada: And I was playing a broken mrdaṅga.

Rupanuga: It was wood. Was it wooden?

Pusta Krsna: I think they had that at the New Vrindavan farm.

Rupanuga: We had borrowed it from an Indian man.

Pusta Krsna: It was a little one-sided drum?

Rupanuga: No, it was a big, two-sided wooden drum. That was another drum.

Prabhupada: Redfall park[?] [break] That was 1966.

Rupanuga: This record, yes. October, November. November or December, near Christmas. Acyutananda was there also.

Prabhupada: Hmm. New Vrindavan.

Rupanuga: Yes.

[break] [on walk]

Prabhupada: ...this building?

Vipina: This is the historical building where they have the information about what this place used to be, how it used to function.

Rupanuga: When it would fill up, then they'd let the boat down inside, from one level down to the next, on down. They were small barges.

Hari-sauri: Very small.

Prabhupada: This is river?

Rupanuga: Beg a pardon? Potomac River.

Svarupa Damodara: I was going to ask that this soul, the nature of the soul, we find that...

Prabhupada: Salt?

Svarupa Damodara: No, no, the soul, the atma, jiva. We get a description that the soul, the size of a soul is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. We were just discussing whether does this imply that it can be measured.

Prabhupada: Yes, this is the measurement.

Svarupa Damodara: But we are claiming that it is nonphysical.

Prabhupada: No, nonphysical, that doesn't mean it has no measurement. It has measurement.

Svarupa Damodara: So measurement... Actually, Sadaputa calculated from how much the size is. Now from electron microscope, actually we can get an idea about the tip of the hair, how much it is. Now you divide it by one ten-thousandth part, so it will come out the size of the soul is about two angstroms, by calculation like that.

Prabhupada: Two atoms?

Svarupa Damodara: No, angstroms. Angstrom is the smallest scale that science can imagine. And it is smaller even than the hydrogen atom. So actually it is atomic, it is very small in size.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: But we were wondering whether that is reasonable.

Prabhupada: Reasonable? Yes. It is given in Upanisads and Padma Purana, authorized.

Rupanuga: It's just that this one ten-thousandth tip of hair has no material quality. It is nonphysical but still can be measured.

Prabhupada: Nonphysical... Just like axiomatic truth point has no length, no breadth, but it has length and breadth. You cannot measure it.

Svarupa Damodara: But does this not imply-one ten-thousandth the size-does that not imply measurement, that it can be measured?

Prabhupada: Yes, measurement, measurement is there. This is closed?

Vipina: Yes, this is the service road, but up here is a very nice way to look at the waterfall. [break]

In the microbe there is soul. If it is not so small, how in the microbe there can be soul?

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, it is small.

Prabhupada: This is the falls?

Devotee: Yes.

Vipina: Man-made waterfalls.

Prabhupada: Man-made? Not natural?

Rupanuga: This is the dam part. The other part, this is man-made dam here. There's other parts where it flows freely.

Prabhupada: Aeroplanes. [laughter]

Pusta Krsna: Little flies.

Prabhupada: They can manufacture aeroplanes like this with pilot.

Svarupa Damodara: But they can manufacture bigger ones.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Do it.

Pusta Krsna: Start with little ones.

Svarupa Damodara: What will be the technique to attract the Bengali educational class?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Svarupa Damodara: To attract the Bengalis who are educated, what techniques will be most effective?

Prabhupada: This kirtana and prasada distribution.

Svarupa Damodara: But it seems that to me they are not so much interested. There was a man who came from Calcutta about two months ago, a Bengali, and in fact we were class friends in Calcutta when I was studying in Calcutta. And actually I discussed this problem with him, why so-called Bengali intellectuals are not attracted to our movement. And his answer was that the Caitanya movement is mostly for less intellectuals. For those who are educated, they want to be followers of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. In fact, they have a society called Vedanta Society. All the Bengalis get together...

Prabhupada: And waste their time. The rascals waste their time.

Svarupa Damodara: And they discuss... So I was a little mad at him, this friend.

Prabhupada: Because the real fact is they do not want to give up meat-eating and fish-eating. Therefore they like Vivekananda. That is the real reason. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement, Vaisnava, they have to give up so many things. That is the disease of the Bengalis. And Vivekananda is recognized only in Bengal. To some part, not all.

Vipina: There is also a small Vedanta Society here in Washington. I had one of our Indian associates, whom I hope you will be able to meet, go there, and he said they could not even discuss the topics of Bhagavad-gita. They had no conclusions. They were arguing in their own meeting, and no one had any idea what Bhagavad-gita was, and so many technical points.

Prabhupada: The meat-eaters are the most sinful. They cannot understand. Vina pasughnat, nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat [SB 10.1.4]. They will have no access.

Svarupa Damodara: I think there must be a fundamental mistake in their outlook.

Prabhupada: No, their life is a mistake, because they are sinful. Their life is a mistake. Misguided.

Svarupa Damodara: This fellow is a chemist, and actually he's very intelligent, and he has read all the Gitas, and he has studied many thoughts on Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Prabhupada: First of all, we have to talk with them about this: "What is life?" Then they will talk. If they are on the bodily conception of life, they are animals, which is not. First of all, you have to talk with them on this platform, "What is life." Identification.

Svarupa Damodara: To me, my feeling was that they somewhat look down. They look down in their feeling.

Prabhupada: Look down?

Hari-sauri: They think that they are superior.

Prabhupada: But you did not talk with him and argue?

Svarupa Damodara: I argued.

Prabhupada: "What is life."

Svarupa Damodara: Well, ultimately he has to accept that, our philosophy.

Prabhupada: They have become less intelligent on account of their bad habits.

Svarupa Damodara: This man, there's a Professor Mitra, he's in Emory University in Department of Sociology. They claim he's a Vedantist, and they have a group. And then this Das, actually his name was Das, he told me that he has Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is and he worships, he recites every day. And he told me that he praises very much, that it's the best Gita he has seen. So although he's involved in something else, but still he's taking Srila Prabhupada's.

Prabhupada: Yes. Any man who is reasonable, he'll come. If he's animal, he cannot come. That is the difference. The first charge is that anyone who is in bodily concept of life, he's animal. First of all, refute this. If you are thinking that "I am this body," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," then you are animal. This is our first charge. What they will answer? What is the difference? If a dog is thinking "I am dog," and I am thinking "I am Indian" or "American," what is the difference? What is the difference between the dog and the man? That first charge should be settled. Then further questions can be...

Svarupa Damodara: So it seems to be that we need some strong preaching in Calcutta, in Bengal. We want to attract some intellectuals from...

Prabhupada: No, there are many intellectuals. Not that [indistinct].

Svarupa Damodara: Actually my concern here, staying here in Atlanta, there are many Bengali families, but they never come to the temple.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Just see!

Svarupa Damodara: There was our Life Member program, and so many prabhus are going to make Life Members, and these Bengalis, they don't even have some respect. That is why I was a little, seeing their motto, I was a little disappointed.

Prabhupada: Because you will ask them not to eat meat, and that they cannot do. What are these? Crows?

Pusta Krsna: At our Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir, though, lakhs of people are coming.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, it is, but the common people, ordinary people. [laughter]

Prabhupada: Because they are godless, they are uncommon. Educated Bengalis, they are spoiled.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes. My feeling was they do not want to stop eating meat.

Prabhupada: That is the only...

Svarupa Damodara: I think that is the main reason.

Prabhupada: And Vivekananda says whatever you like, you can eat.

Svarupa Damodara: Yes, yata mata tata patha. He said. They claim like this also. They follow like that.

Prabhupada: Spoiled. Bengalis are spoiled.

Svarupa Damodara: Our request is they should join, and they should help us in spreading the mission.

Prabhupada: Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg 7.15]. They are naradhamas. [break]

[back in car]

Prabhupada: ...time?

Vipina: Yes, just fifteen, twenty minutes. [end]