Audio

Prabhupada: In the material world, whatever you do, the central point is sex. That's all. This is the verdict of the sastras. Whatever big, big things you do, [laughs] the central point is sex.

Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, that's a point which I've noticed. Sometimes when I'm talking to someone, I tell them that "Practically speaking, all that you're doing is eating, sleeping, mating and defending." But they say, "I don't agree with you because," they say, "we're doing so many things. Just like our school work; it is not eating, sleeping, mating and defending. It is philosophy, it is appreciation of literature."

Prabhupada: Then what is the end? The end is sex.

Ramesvara: The end is sex. Just like they have these big, big skyscrapers for so many businesses...

Prabhupada: This big, big philosopher Freud, and says they're only sex.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, but they're... Suppose Sartre, just like you were speaking of Sartre the other day. His end is not apparently sex life.

Prabhupada: What is that sastra?

Tamala Krsna: No, Sartre, Sartre. You were speaking on...

Prabhupada: No, not that all.

Tamala Krsna: They just... I found that they don't agree when you say that. They say "I am doing so many things." Just like... [break] [walking]

Pusta Krsna: [testing tape] Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna. I think the tape is...

Ramesvara: In your quarters, Srila Prabhupada, or in the temple room?

Prabhupada: Anywhere is nice.[?]

Baradraj: Are there any other Deities besides Kaliya-Krsna you want us to make for Fiji?

Prabhupada: Radha-Krsna and Guru-Gauraṅga.

Ramesvara: Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and yourself, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Baradraj: Life-size Deities?

Prabhupada: You have not seen Vrndavana?

Baradraj: Just the same size as Vrndavana's?

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Baradraj: That Deity, what size should that be?

Prabhupada: The height is ten feet, ceiling, ten or twelve feet. [break] Ten to twenty inches.

Baradraj: All together, with Kaliya?

Prabhupada: No, Kaliya...

Baradraj: Just Krsna. There should be four naga-patnis?

Prabhupada: Four.

Pusta Krsna: Like mermaids.

Baradraj: What is the special significance of constructing Kaliya-Krsna temple in Fiji?

Prabhupada: They say that "Kaliya lived here."

Baradraj: Is that true?

Prabhupada: Never mind. [break] But it is Krsna's lila, so...

Baradraj: Kaliya then became a devotee after Krsna subdued him.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Baradraj: They are both worshipable.

Prabhupada: Yes.

[break] [in car]

Ramesvara: This is supposed to be the... [noise of car windows] I was once told that these irregularities in the climate are due to sinful activities. Los Angeles has a nice climate.

Tamala Krsna: People I speak to, they say, "Yes, even in the last twenty years we can notice a great change in the weather patterns." People say that.

Prabhupada: Disturbance means sinful atmosphere.

Ramesvara: In Bhagavatam, you wrote that when there is a great storm or hurricane, some demon has taken birth.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: And also that it is the king's responsibility to see that there is good weather. If there's good government, then automatically...

Prabhupada: Everything is good.

Tamala Krsna: These buildings are churches, but they're all closed. But our churches are lively, even at four in the morning.

Prabhupada: From four o'clock up to ten.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Now there's twenty-four-hour kirtana. So all day and night. [break]

Ramesvara: ...on the decline of the churches in America, and they say that the biggest reason in the last few years is that Pope, he issued one big statement against birth control and abortion. He said, "Catholics cannot practice birth control and should never have abortion." So they did not like this. So that is the biggest reason for the decrease in attending the church. They broke away from the authority.

Prabhupada: That means if the church allows sense gratification without any restriction, then they'll attend church. That is the conclusion.

Tamala Krsna: They're dictating.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...

Prabhupada: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.

Ramesvara: Even the priests, they said that when the Pope issued that document, they lost faith in him as the representative of God.

Prabhupada: Just see. [laughs] Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Church should... They are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. It is progressive. They feel that is the progressive way to think.

Ramesvara: And the church should not interfere with their... That is their decision.

Tamala Krsna: It is personal life.

Prabhupada: This is the rascaldom. [break]

Tamala Krsna: You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupada: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamala Krsna: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big, fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine and that, and your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupada: No... Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Ramesvara: Disobeying.

Tamala Krsna: That is the thing. "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not be an adulterer." Those are the two big ones.

Ramesvara: "Covet thy neighbor's property, steal. Dishonor the mother and father, the cow, the earth, God."

Prabhupada: Cow also?

Ramesvara: Well, there's one of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father." But the mother is one of the cows, the earth. I mean the earth is the mother, the cow is the mother.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: So they dishonor.

Tamala Krsna: They have no eyes to see that actually we are following strictly the teachings of Jesus.

Ramesvara: And they always say that Jesus ate fish. They always use that as an argument.

Prabhupada: Jesus ate fish, therefore we shall eat our sons? Is that any reason? Jesus ate fish; therefore I shall eat my son.

Tamala Krsna: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."

Hari-sauri: One of the great things is that they like to drink wine as well, because Jesus drank wine.

Ramesvara: Yes, he drank wine.

Tamala Krsna: But he didn't go to the bar. The way he drank wine was in a sacrament. You're drinking in a bar. So anyway, we should tell them, if you want to...

Prabhupada: Jesus drank wine, but nobody said Jesus is a drunkard.

Tamala Krsna: Drunkard, exactly. And you can also, when you do all the things that he did, then you can also drink wine.

Prabhupada: Now, Jesus was crucified; I shall crucify you. Come on. You're so pious that now you prepare to be crucified. Come on.

Tamala Krsna: And you forgive me for doing it.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. You take my sins and be crucified. Then I shall know that you are real followers of Jesus Christ. Take all my sins and I crucify you.

Ramesvara: In the Caitanya-caritamrta, you wrote that Vaisnavas like Vasudeva Datta, they're even greater than Jesus Christ.

Prabhupada: Did I say?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. You said that Jesus only gave shelter to his few followers, but Vasudeva Datta prayed that the whole sinful activities of the whole universe...

Ramesvara: "Be on me, I'll take them."

Tamala Krsna: You said..., I think it said, he was a thousand times greater. You wrote that in the purport.

Prabhupada: Nature's law is not like that, that "You suffer for me." No. "I suffer for my [indistinct]." It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to the jail," he'll not…The court will not allow me. [break] ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.

Hari-sauri: The Americans are expert at building highways.

Prabhupada: They have got money, and others...Where is the money? They want to do it, [laughs] but where is the money?

Ramesvara: They use these arguments that they are civilized, that they are making progress.

Prabhupada: Who?

Ramesvara: Americans.

Prabhupada: Yes, that I say also, that you are fortunate. Take Krsna consciousness and be the best nation in the world. Simply you take Krsna consciousness.

Tamala Krsna: The Indians would argue that "Just see. The Americans are not so religious, but they have good material wealth."

Prabhupada: No. In America, Krsna consciousness has developed. What you have done? Why don't you say?

Tamala Krsna: "But our forefathers have done, and just see the mess we are in because of it."

Prabhupada: Forefathers ate ghee, so lick up your hand. My forefathers ate ghee.

Tamala Krsna: All you have is dalda now.

Prabhupada: [laughs] Why dalda? Your forefathers ate ghee. You enjoy it now.

Ramesvara: Actually, if we introduce ghee in America, we'll be very famous. That will make us very popular.

Prabhupada: Yes, do it. You have got enough milk, you can do it.

Ramesvara: I was thinking yesterday, Srila Prabhupada, that as our movement becomes greater and greater, then taking krsna-prasadam at a restaurant or at our Sunday feast will be like a national pastime.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: Everyone in the country.

Prabhupada: And the Rathayatra also.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, it will be like going to the ball game.

Prabhupada: Rathayatra, introduce in every city. We have already got some national holiday?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: You'll get everywhere. In this way, one day we'll capture the whole government, and you'll become the president.

Tamala Krsna: Ramesvara.

Prabhupada: Yes. [laughter]

Ramesvara: You said Balavanta.

Prabhupada: Balavanta may be his secretary. You can... [laughter]

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, I was told you once said that he would be in the White House before he's forty years old.

Prabhupada: [laughs] No, I did not.

Tamala Krsna: That was only to encourage him.

Ramesvara: Oh, to encourage him. Also, Srila Prabhupada...

Prabhupada: No, if you bring public in your favor, it is not difficult.

Tamala Krsna: That's a fact. You have to bring them in your favor.

Prabhupada: Yes. "A Krsna conscious man. He's a Krsna conscious man. Give him vote." This opinion. That's all.

Tamala Krsna: It will happen gradually.

Ramesvara: One day our men will be leaders of government? They will actually...

Prabhupada: Yes. Leaders means as soon as you make the public in your favor, you are leader.

Ramesvara: But they'll actually manage the government?

Prabhupada: Yes, why not? That is Krsna's desire. The Kuruksetra battle was for this purpose. The Pandavas should be on the throne, not the Duryodhana. This is Krsna consciousness movement. All-round, not that we're simply chanting. We're fighting also.

Tamala Krsna: Arjuna monks.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Tamala Krsna: We had a nice experience...

Prabhupada: All-round.

Tamala Krsna: ...in Berkeley, when we started to fight...

Prabhupada: They may not misunderstand us that we are...

Tamala Krsna: Pacifists.

Prabhupada: Pacifists, or a sect of religious faith. We want to remold, remodel everything.

Hari-sauri: That's something we have to get out of their heads, that we're just some kind of a select sect or something.

Prabhupada: That they'll understand as they read our books, that we are all-round reformer.

Ramesvara: They have created so many problems that to manage their government is the biggest headache.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: They've created so many problems to solve.

[pause]

Prabhupada: [apparently reading sign] South Pacific Railway? ISKCON government means this, stop all these four things. No slaughterhouse, close. The meat-eaters may become agitated, they may complain. "No, you are not forbidden to eat, you can eat, but slaughter in your house."

Tamala Krsna: Natural death.

Prabhupada: The government is not going to maintain slaughterhouse. That's all. We don't forbid you; you can do at your home.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. The cows will die one day from old age, then they can eat.

Prabhupada: Yes, if you like to eat, the dead cow. Just like you are eating... [break] [end]