760605MW.LA

[in car]

Tamala Krsna: ...had been a kirtana leader in his previous lifetime, how could he take so naturally to Sanskrit and chanting like that?

Prabhupada: This boy?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. He's just like a Bengali kirtana leader. He joined the movement when he was only sixteen years old. Very...

Ramesvara: Jagannatha dasa has just come back from Vrndavana. I think he's going to help on the books again. That will speed things up. Everything is going slowly through Sanskrit still.

Prabhupada: [looking at bones] Chicken?

Tamala Krsna: No, some animal, bigger animal.

Ramesvara: Ribs? Lamb, sheep. [break]

Prabhupada: ...kill. Simply kill. Pasu-ghna. As soon as you become animal killer, Krsna consciousness finished. Pariksit Maharaja, vina pasu-ghnat. Except the persons who are killers of animals, everyone will be interested.

Tamala Krsna: One good thing is that there is generally a growing movement amongst American people, and I don't know about other countries, for vegetarianism. People are becoming more and more... I think it is due to our books, Srila Prabhupada. Book distribution, we are educating the people in that way.

Prabhupada: Actually, we are educating. That's a fact.

Tamala Krsna: Many vegetarian societies now. [break]

Prabhupada: ...they say, Santa Monica?

Tamala Krsna: Yes, it is cleaner there.

Ramesvara: Yesterday you suggested that I send groups of our brahmacarinis to that farm in Oregon where Yamuna Mataji is staying, but I was thinking that actually, she is a very, very wonderful preacher, and if she can visit our temples more often, then she can... In other words, instead of... It's more expensive and difficult to send so many people to her...

Prabhupada: So ask, do that. That's nice.

Ramesvara: Otherwise, she can come to us.

Tamala Krsna: It's also a healthier environment, I think. It's a little...

Ramesvara: She lives alone with Dina-tarini. She doesn't have much association. She's keeping herself apart a little bit.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, I think, that's one..., there's one disadvantage is that they have a little bit of a..., their attitude is a little bit separatist from ISKCON in the sense of keeping aloof, and if the girls go there and live there, they may develop that same mentality. It might be better for her to come to the temples to teach.

Prabhupada: Then make arrangement. I have not objection.

Ramesvara: [laughs] She has objection. That's the difficulty. We can't force her.

Tamala Krsna: That's the problem. And if that's her feeling, then if you send people there they'll get the same. [break]

Prabhupada: Worshiping Deity.

Tamala Krsna: Yes. Oh, they're doing that beautifully, and they're expert cooks. They're very good devotees.

Ramesvara: They could just be so valuable to helping our temples if they agreed to preach to our devotees. They could train. [break] ...brought the reporters from Time magazine over to see our temple. I had Mother Yamuna prepare some prasadam, and she was also serving them, and then she was explaining about prasadam and preaching. So I could understand that as long as she stays on that farm, she's limiting herself, because she's an excellent preacher. She could be very valuable, expert preacher. In her... Their idea is that they would like to make their farm a little bigger, with more women living with them.

Prabhupada: I like that idea.

Ramesvara: There will be no man to help give advice, just the women manage it all themselves.

Prabhupada: Just like in Vrndavana there is bhajanasrama, they're only women.

Tamala Krsna: Syamabais?

Prabhupada: Not Syamabais, but bhajanasrama. [asrama for widow women only]

Ramesvara: So that's a good idea. [break]

Prabhupada: ...with man is dangerous for both. I, I have given that: man is good, woman is good, when they come together-bad. Both of them bad.

Tamala Krsna: Bad. We see that.

Ramesvara: They say that that farmland in Oregon is too small, very small.

Prabhupada: Let them organize that.

Ramesvara: Jagadisa was telling me that there are some boys who are donating seventy-five acres of farmland about four hours from Los Angeles. It is the best farmland in California. So he wants to develop this, because they have given it to him, specifically to make a farm and eventually to have the children of gurukula live there. So perhaps we could invite Yamuna.

Prabhupada: As soon as you make gurukula, government immediately stops.

Tamala Krsna: Will stop. To save the [indistinct]. The same problem. The government can't raise objection. Better to keep it real small, decentralize. Children are learning, then they are sent to India when they're eight or ten. The children here are doing very nicely. The children here are doing as nicely as in Dallas, I've seen that.

Prabhupada: Yes, small groups, small group.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, and it forces all the temples to have a community, which is nice.

Prabhupada: Otherwise rascals will come, "Do this, do that, do that," and they will never be satisfied, because their business is to tease.

Hari-sauri: Simply to harass.

Prabhupada: Harass. So that they may not extend this philosophy, no meat-eating, Then their business will be spoiled.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. We represent a threat to them.

Prabhupada: Yes, therefore they do not like this program anywhere. No meat-eating, no drinking, no illicit sex. Then what remains? Everything is finished.

Ramesvara: Actually, we have many enemies in America.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, naturally.

Hari-sauri: Everywhere.

Ramesvara: When we printed that , that little booklet, we gave the names of professors who appreciated our movement, and their school, their college. So there are some demons in America who... Well, like we gave the name and address of the professor in that book. So some demons in America got a hold of that book, and wrote all the professors letters blaspheming our movement and Your Divine Grace and telling them that "Professor, you should withdraw your name. You are giving your support to a horrible movement." So we have many enemies.

Tamala Krsna: Did the professors write back?

Ramesvara: Dr. Judah got a copy of one such letter, and he mailed it to Jayadvaita, so I've seen it. Very, very blasphemous, poisonous, but it was written by a very educated person. I could tell by the style of writing that the person who wrote that letter was very literate.

Prabhupada: He did not disclose his name?

Ramesvara: Yes, his name and address.

Tamala Krsna: That person gave his name and address, who wrote that letter?

Ramesvara: Yes, yes.

Prabhupada: So we cannot bring him to the court?

Ramesvara: Perhaps. I'll see. But this is an example.

Prabhupada: No, I know that.

Ramesvara: It is mostly from parents. Parents have had bad experience that they have lost their children to this movement.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, that's the big propaganda now. The..., there's one... There's a number of men who kidnap, their professional business is to kidnap devotees and other people who belong to other groups like ours. And they're paid by the parents to kidnap the children back, and they call it deprogram the children, deprogramming.

Hari-sauri: Prabhupada saw that article on that Ted Patrick.

Tamala Krsna: I saw it in New York recently. Our president, Adikesa, he went up against Ted Patrick on television, big television show, and he completely defeated him. So Ted Patrick was saying that, you know, that these people are all fanatics. So Adikesa, at the end, he said, so, if we're fanatics, then the Pope is even more fanatical, so why don't you deprogram him? And everybody laughed at that Ted Patrick. [laughter]

Ramesvara: He says we teach our... I mean he has many arguments. He knows all about the incidents in Germany and Japan, and he uses this against us.

Prabhupada: He's collected all these bad.

Ramesvara: "Lying and cheating," he says.

Tamala Krsna: A few devotees who have joined him, who left and have joined him, they have given him this inside information, so he tries... Actually, though, no strong devotee can be changed by him. He only gets the very new men. So now he's written a book.

Prabhupada: About us?

Ramesvara: About his experiences of kidnapping our students and others.

Tamala Krsna: What is the book called?

Ramesvara: It's called Let My Children Go.

Tamala Krsna: Let Our Children Go, yes.

Ramesvara: So we have got our lawyer to start a lawsuit against him, because in that book they are blaspheming us like anything. And this very big publisher, who published the book, has spent lots of money in advertising. And the advertising always uses our name, because it's controversial. They always try to get people to buy the book, saying "Now you can read about the dangerous Hare Krsna people."

Tamala Krsna: [laughs] It's a good propaganda, I think.

Ramesvara: But we're trying to stop that.

Prabhupada: America is feeling the strength of Hare Krsna movement.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, they're getting pinched. You have really come as an aggressor, Prabhupada. [Prabhupada laughs] Actually, I think we are the most dangerous revolutionaries in the whole world.

Prabhupada: To the raksasas.

Tamala Krsna: And everyone is raksasa practically. If the government ever understood your mission in coming here, they would never have granted you this permanent residence visa. [laughs]

Prabhupada: They thought, "It is very nice, the Swamiji is preaching about God." [break] [walking at Santa Monica] So don't read newspaper.

Tamala Krsna: Don't what, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Don't read newspaper.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, no. [laughter] Another smash.

Prabhupada: So many don'ts, add one another.

Tamala Krsna: Don't read newspapers.

Prabhupada: Yes. Then next they'll make so much propaganda against you.

Tamala Krsna: So we should do that. Whenever we preach to anyone and we tell them..., I tell them that I have not gone to the movie house for ten years, they say, "Oh, how horrible! Inhuman!" [laughter]

Radha-vallabha: If we tell them not to read the newspaper, they'll think we're telling them to stop breathing.

Prabhupada: They..., don't read... You say, "I am not reading any other literatures." Just like you say that "I have not gone to cinema house." It is another way of saying that "Don't go to cinema."

Tamala Krsna: The Christian missionary was trying to convert the people; so they would not listen. But then when he told that, ah...

Hrdayananda: In hell there are no newspapers.

Tamala Krsna: ...in hell there are no newspapers, they went, "Oh!" [laughter]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Trivikrama: Coal miners.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, coal miners.

Prabhupada: No newspaper; it is horrible. Ask the health department of government, that "You write on the cigarette box: 'It is injurious.' " What is that?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: We are preaching that. Give us some money.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, we're helping them.

Prabhupada: Yes. Similarly, intoxication. And see practically, at least take some certificate from them.

Hrdayananda: If they find out that the solution is with God, they would rather have the disease.

Prabhupada: Apart from God, see practically. [break]

Radha-vallabha: ...money from the taxes on these things. They don't want them to be abolished. The government make thousands and millions of dollars by taxing the cigarettes and liquor; so they don't want these things abolished. [break]

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Danavira: I'm in charge of the New Bhakta program in Los Angeles, and yesterday one boy called up the temple, and he was seventeen years old, and he said, "Five years ago, when I was coming out of a store, I received this Back to Godhead magazine. So I took it home-I was twelve years old-and I began reading it. I read six pages, but my mother, she was a strict Baptist, and she took it away; I couldn't read it. I never saw devotees again until this time." He called up. Yesterday he came and joined the temple and became your disciple. [Prabhupada chuckles]

Devotees: Jaya.

Ramesvara: Just by reading one word of your books.

Prabhupada: What is that word?

Ramesvara: Any word. [laughter] "Surrender to Krsna!" [break] ... making almost ten devotees, new men, every month. And they're all coming from your books, from reading your books-every one of them.

Prabhupada: Therefore I am insisting, "Spread books."

Danavira: Srila Prabhupada, there was one boy who just joined a few months ago, and he had been reading your books, and he came to join the temple. He had graduated from college and he's been to law school, and we found out after some time that his father, his name was Dr. Royal McClain, he was a very, very big preacher in the South, and he had his own television program.

Ramesvara: Christian. His father was the biggest Christian preacher in the South. He had his own TV show. Very big preacher, very strict Christian, and his son joined our movement. So the father calls up the son, "How could you desert our religion and join this Krsna movement?" So... [laughter]

Danavira: He explained how he was actually feeling real love of God now for the first time in his life.

Ramesvara: He convinced his father that he should stay in our movement.

Tamala Krsna: Recently, in New York, my parents came to visit me. You know they... Actually, they didn't come to see me, they came to the restaurant, but I happened to be there. [Prabhupada laughs] So, ah, they related a very unusual incident that one of their friends is a lawyer in New York. So they were having dinner with him the other day, and he mentioned that recently he had gone to Las Vegas for a vacation. In Las Vegas there are many gambling casinos. So when he was about to depart on the plane, one of his friends gave him a five dollar bill and told him that "In order that your gambling should be fortunate, the first good person you see there, you give this five dollar bill to him, and it will automatically bring you good luck." So the man went to Las Vegas, and when he got out at the airport, one of our devotees approached him. And this gentleman happens to be a lawyer who's fighting against us to keep us out of the New York airport. He's representing the airline company. So he didn't know it was one of our devotees because they were in the regular clothes, civilian clothes. So our devotee said, "Please, we're doing good work, educating people, you kindly give a donation." So the man thought: "Well, my friend gave me this," he gave him five dollars, and naturally, the devotee gave him a book. So the man didn't look at it, but he went into the taxi, the lawyer, and then when he looked he realized [laughter] he was supporting the enemy. And another incident they related is that they go on vacation to South America. So they were in the Amazon, in the jungle, in the Amazon...

Hrdayananda: Oh, I heard this when I...

Tamala Krsna: ...and they, right in the middle of the jungle, suddenly the devotees were there. [laughter] Hrdayananda's men were there preaching, and they said they could not imagine that they were in this most unusual place, no one was around, but suddenly Hare Krsna devotees appeared. [laughter]

Hrdayananda: They told me they met Tamala Krsna's mother.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Radha-vallabha: If he gets a book in an unusual place, they always say, "You people are everywhere."

Ramesvara: When we tell the public that we only have maybe ten thousand devotees, they are very surprised that there are so few Hare Krsna devotees, because they see us everywhere.

Pusta Krsna: Therefore we're the most enthusiastic missionaries in the world. [break]

Prabhupada: ...say that all the ten thousand devotees, each of them is a moon, not a star.

Devotees: Jaya!

Tamala Krsna: And you are the sun, Srila Prabhupada. We are just reflecting your light. [break]

Pusta Krsna: ...do the work of many stars.

Prabhupada: Hmm. Ekas candras tamo hanti [Canakya Pandita]. Stars, they cannot do anything; they simply glitter, that's all. Glowworms.

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, one boy joined our temple here, he was attending a very well known college, and straight A's in physics, a scientist. So his parents were a little concerned. His father is a very big professor at California Institute of Technology, the biggest technical school in America. His mother is a professor of anthropology, and she is in the family of millionaires from Germany, German industrialists. So they were very concerned. So they came to visit their boy at our temple, and now the mother is coming regularly, giving nice donations and sometimes spending the weekend.

Prabhupada: Oh, her child?

Danavira: Yes.

Prabhupada: So give him nice. He's living with us?

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: He was given one room? No?

Tamala Krsna: Danavira, was he given a room?

Danavira: We gave him a place to study every day.

Trivikrama: He also has a Ph.D., from Heidelberg University, in philosophy.

Prabhupada: Therefore, I say that take care of him. He's a good.

Pusta Krsna: The other way, Srila Prabhupada?

Svarupa: Now that the Back to Godhead has become so very good in quality, when the people finish reading it they see our ad for membership and they write in for information on membership, and they are becoming our members, which means that each month they pledge donations, and they are on our mailing list. They receive newsletters; we even send them prasada in the mail. And now we've got 250 members each month donating to the Book Trust... Altogether are donating four thousand dollars each month, and it is increasing.

Prabhupada: So increase the number of Back to Godhead.

Svarupa: Yes. As the quantity and quality increases in Back to Godhead, the membership program is increasing, and orders for the literature through Back to Godhead increases.

Tamala Krsna: It's our best means of advertising, that magazine.

Mahendra: Every day, the mail order department is delivering to the airport, or to the post office, a big stack of books to be mailed out.

Prabhupada: So why not ask them to make a post office here, ISKCON post office?

Svarupa: Each day fifty letters are coming. Some are inquiries, some are orders. [break] ...program, Prabhupada, we continue writing letters to these people until they become devotees.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Svarupa: And last year thirty became devotees. They wrote us letters saying that they have moved into a temple and that they are very happy now.

Tamala Krsna: Svarupa, he does all this writing; he's the secretary. He keeps correspondence with all of these people every month.

Ramesvara: In your book, there is an invitation in every book: "For more information, write to the secretary."

Prabhupada: Yes, I've seen.

Tamala Krsna: That is Svarupa. He does all that. [break]

Prabhupada: ...avasthiti. When one remains in svarupa, that is called mukti. [laughter] Svarupena avasthitih [SB 2.10.6].

[break] The best place in Los Angeles for walking.

Tamala Krsna: Wow. This is the best place in Los Angeles for walking. [break]

Prabhupada: ...still the sea beach is here.

Tamala Krsna: Very clean.

Radha-vallabha: It was Hrdayananda Maharaja's idea to come here.

Ramesvara: We've been planning for some time to prepare one flyer advertising our Vrndavana guesthouse, because every year college professors take students to India. They all go to see the Taj Mahal, so they pass through Mathura, so they can easily stop.

Prabhupada: Agra they must go. Every foreigner, they go to Agra.

Tamala Krsna: Agra.

Ramesvara: So we want to make some propaganda, and Air India will help us distribute it. So the question is, these students and professors, they cannot control their senses from smoking and so on. So do we want to allow them to stay in our guesthouse, because it is certain that they will smoke in their room.

Prabhupada: That is very difficult thing.

Ramesvara: That is the only question. And then if you think it is all right that we still invite them, then we can prepare this flyer.

Prabhupada: You, first of all you GBC think, then answer. Make one room, smoking room. That's all right. Just like a, that kind of restriction is there in the airplane, smoking; not, none. So you keep a room separately, a smoking room.

Tamala Krsna: One time when I was staying in the Krsna-Balarama mandira, I saw a man smoking a bidi in his room. If that happens-in the bedroom-should the managers go and say this is not permitted?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: They should. They should go down to the smoking room.

Prabhupada: "Kindly go to the smoking room."

Devotee: The Deities in Vrndavana are in need of paraphernalia, and... Which is more important, that the Deities get Their paraphernalia, or should the money be used other projects.

Prabhupada: What is that paraphernalia? Who are asking?

Devotee: Who asked me? I'm asking you which is more important.

Prabhupada: I'll let you know. If you want to give some money, you transfer to the Bank of America, account number 1606.

Ramesvara: The Mayapur-Vrndavana Trust Fund? Oh.

Prabhupada: Yes. And let me know that "I've transferred so much money."

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Then I will do it.

Jagannatha: The Deity puja has been improving in Vrndavana. Right now Nitai is the head pujari there.

Prabhupada: Then it's all right?

Jagannatha: And he is making many improvements.

Prabhupada: No. He can. All of you can, if you like.

Ramesvara: This is, Srila Prabhupada, Allen, who is becoming very enthusiastic to support our movement.

Prabhupada: Thank you.

Ramesvara: His wife is very, very devoted.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: She is always insisting that you give more.

[break] [in car]

Tamala Krsna: What about July?

Ramesvara: And this month, coming up, at the end of June we are printing one million copies, just for one month's sale, for this Bicentennial celebration. There'll be so many people coming to the parks and monuments to observe this event. [break]

Prabhupada: ...Kalyan, the paper, most important theistic paper in India. And during Hanuman Prasad Poddar's time, they were selling all ninety-five thousand. Between one lakh, nine thousands.

Tamala Krsna: Nine thousand. Now it is ten times that. That organization now is finished.

Prabhupada: Yes. There was no life.

Tamala Krsna: No.

Prabhupada: But it was a good organization, that's all. On account of good organization, it was going on. But there was no life. The Marwaris, they can organize business very nicely.

Tamala Krsna: First class, yes. Same thing with even someone like Swami Chinmayananda's group. It is organized nicely, but there is no...

Prabhupada: No, no more organization also.

Tamala Krsna: Really?

Prabhupada: Organization is also finished.

Tamala Krsna: Oh. Jaya.

Prabhupada: Mean... Dead life organization, how long it will go on? Apranasyeva dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam... [Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11]. If this body is dead, how long keep it alive by simply painting? Is it possible?

Tamala Krsna: No.

Prabhupada: It will decompose.

Ramesvara: So then everything-the Church, everything.

Prabhupada: Artificially... Gunagan cha'masa, kapalera phala bara masa. [Bengali proverb]. By artificial means you can keep a thing alive for six months. But what is destiny, that will go on all the time. Bara masa. Bara masa: "all the year."

Tamala Krsna: Just like that girl's body.

Prabhupada: Gunagan cha'masa, kapalera phala...

Tamala Krsna: There was one girl that had some disease, she was unconscious for..., how long? A year and a half?

Ramesvara: She was, practically speaking, dead, but by artificial means they kept the heart pumping.

Tamala Krsna: For one and a half years.

Ramesvara: And they thought that "If I pull out the electrical plug on this machine, then it will be murder." She was already dead, and the doctors fixed this machine to keep her heart... Now they were afraid of pull out the plug.

Prabhupada: Not dead. Not dead. [chuckles] Dead cannot be continued by electricity. That is not possible.

Hari-sauri: Spirit soul was still there.

Tamala Krsna: The soul was still there, but not in that condition.

Ramesvara: So then there was no movement, no thinking; everything was...

Prabhupada: Unconscious, that may be.

Tamala Krsna: Terrible karma. Like a tree.

Hari-sauri: I remember reading in England there was somebody that had been in a coma for seventeen years.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hari-sauri: They had been in a coma, in a hospital, for seventeen years.

Prabhupada: Seventeen years?

Hari-sauri: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: Bad karma.

Prabhupada: And still he was taken care of?

Hari-sauri: Hmm.

Prabhupada: Good patience. [laughter] And then after? He revived?

Hari-sauri: No. He was still in a coma. It was just an article that he'd been in a coma for so long, and there was no hope that he would revive or anything.

Tamala Krsna: That description you give in the Bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupada, at the time of death... It's in the Fourth Canto. It's very, very graphic. During that Puranjana, the story of Puranjana, how the fire starts to build, an attack is given on the kingdom. Oh, boy, anyone who reads that will become very much...

Ramesvara: Sober.

Tamala Krsna: ...sobered up. These books are a real slap. They make you awake very quickly. We always... I used to lecture from that to the new men to bring them out of their maya quickly. People don't like to think of death. They try to forget it. It's so fearful to them. And that brings all of the horrors of death very graphically in front of them. You describe how the soul is kept... The body is burning like a big fire, and the soul is trying to get out, but all of the holes are blocked. Just like a man in a house that's burning and he can't get out. Fearful condition. [break]

Ramesvara: ...numbers of men, big temples, it is all due to our books, to your books. So I was thinking that if one day this Krsna consciousness movement becomes so powerful that even it is giving instruction to governments, that will also be because of...

Prabhupada: That is very easy. If you increase the number of your devotees, government is yours. That is not very difficult thing. Simply you have to increase our supporters; then the government is there.

Tamala Krsna: Actually, although the actual number of initiated devotees is still few, there is a growing..., ever-growing number of sympathizers.

Prabhupada: Supporters, yes.

Tamala Krsna: Tremendous number, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: So you make good supporter, then government is yours.

Ramesvara: Then it's all based on selling your books more and more.

Prabhupada: Yes. Oh, yes.

Ramesvara: That is the principal way to increase the supporters and thus deliver the whole world.

Tamala Krsna: When people ask me, "How many members do you have, how many people?" I don't answer any more "Five thousand," or something like that. Now I tell them many millions. Because the thing is when they ask..., when you ask someone how many Christians are there in America, of such and such sect, they don't mean priests, they mean also the people who are coming.

Ramesvara: Congregation.

Prabhupada: Congregation.

Tamala Krsna: So we should give that number, not as five thousand, but as so-and-so many millions.

Prabhupada: That I say, when people ask me that how many followers you have got in India, "They're wholesale."

Tamala Krsna: The whole country.

Ramesvara: The whole country. Yes.

Hari-sauri: Yes. That man was amazed when on the plane when he asked me, he said, "How many members of your religion are there?" So I said, "Well, in India there are hundreds of millions." He couldn't imagine it.

Tamala Krsna: That's what we should say, two million, like that. American, five hundred thousand. Why should we say five thousand?

Hari-sauri: Srila Prabhupada? Before you were mentioning that we should start to try to get on friendly terms with some of these governmental people. Would that be done in the same way as they do in India? Just like we have so many government ministers that have become Life Members and things like that. Is that possible to do in America?

Prabhupada: Yes. There are many government men. Why not? Human psychology is the same. How many lines in...?

Tamala Krsna: How many lanes?

Ramesvara: Four lanes.

Prabhupada: That is biggest.

Tamala Krsna: No, there is highways with six lanes, and there's even some with seven. Yes, fourteen lanes. In other words, fourteen lanes, both sides.

Ramesvara: Every family has to have two or three cars; otherwise, they are not respected.

Tamala Krsna: Also, every family has to have two or three televisions; otherwise, there's fighting. Because the husband wants to see the one show, the wife another, and the children another. So at least two or three televisions, two or three cars.

Prabhupada: In India also, those who are rich.

Tamala Krsna: Getting like that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: In Bombay.

Tamala Krsna: Bhogilal Patel had twenty-three cars. Just for him and his wife and father. [laughter]

Prabhupada: Yes. They are spending money to save income tax. They have got enough income. So instead of giving to the income tax, they are thinking that "Why not provide some chefs, some drivers, some servants, and repair the house every year." In this way, spend money. [laughing] It is good policy. Money's distributed to the poor instead of going to the government pocket.

Tamala Krsna: He's got at least thirty-five servants, and it is only father and son and daughter-in-law.

Prabhupada: That's all. [laughing] No children even.

Tamala Krsna: No. Prabhupada stayed there. They gave us so much, er, attention.

Prabhupada: They are very favorable to us. Especially the father.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes, Bhogilal. I remember when I first approached him for a donation, I asked him, "Please give twenty-five thousand rupees." I was the one who was approaching him. So then he said, "I can give ten thousand." So I said... All I did is I..., just I said, "Please give more." He said, "All right, twenty-five thousand." [laughter] It didn't take very much preaching, he's so kind-hearted. And his son Pranlal was also nice boy.

Prabhupada: Yes. He's very intelligent. He knows what we are doing. His wife also, that young girl.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, very nice. They're actually a little aristocratic, I think.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Tamala Krsna: They have palatial buildings in Ahmedabad, oh.

Prabhupada: That, when I was staying there, that young girl, the daughter, she was always taking care, always: "Swamiji, what do you want? What can I serve you?"

Tamala Krsna: That was a wonderful stay. That was when Mrs. Nair surrendered. That house... [laughs]

Prabhupada: Very good girl. The Bhogilal was coming daily.

Tamala Krsna: To talk with you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: And Pranlal was offering any help that he could. And they gave our... The secretaries were also treated very nicely. They gave us each a car.

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, when I first came to this, to your movement, the first thing I was told is that Lord Caitanya's movement in this age will, like a moon, rise for ten thousand years. I was told that number, ten thousand years. Is that true?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Ramesvara: And then after that, they will...

Prabhupada: This movement will go for ten thousand years without any impediment.

Ramesvara: So that means increasing, because it's the nature of the spiritual energy.

Hari-sauri: Jaya!

Prabhupada: It increases; you should take this opportunity. You work sincerely, it will increase, it will increase.

Ramesvara: Ten thousand years, there is a good opportunity to...

Prabhupada: Many fallen souls will be delivered back to home, back to Godhead.

Tamala Krsna: Jaya! Very encouraging.

Ramesvara: You once said that Christianity will die out. We will be the only religion left.

Prabhupada: I do not remember that.

Ramesvara: Someone told me like that.

Prabhupada: Christianity's already dead. We are purchasing the churches.

Tamala Krsna: That means dead.

Hari-sauri: And their priests are coming to join us as well.

Prabhupada: See, this temple, they sold to us. There was no men. And now balcony. In the same place, the same countrymen. That is the proof, this building. These boys and girls and men, they are not imported from India.

Tamala Krsna: They are formerly Christians and Jews.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: These demons that are trying to challenge us, they cannot stop our movement for ten thousand years.

Prabhupada: What is their challenge? They have no..., nothing to challenge. Unless they are, what is called, violent. That much they can do, like demons.

Tamala Krsna: That, you think that they will do that eventually?

Prabhupada: No, now people are civilized. It is... But they want to do it.

Tamala Krsna: They are thinking. So...

Prabhupada: But on the garb of civilized person it looks odd. Especially in America, when religious freedom is there. Otherwise they would have done. [break] ...this formula, anyone who is not Krsna conscious, he's rascal. This is very revolting. "Because I am not Krsna con..., because I am a rascal?" "Yes." [laughter]

Tamala Krsna: Oh, they don't like that.

Prabhupada: [laughing] This is too much.

Tamala Krsna: Even you were challenging their gurus. That they get very angry at. Sadaji will always tell me, "I like your Prabhupada very much, but he is always criticizing all of our gurus."

Ramesvara: Like Ramakrishna and this cheater magician.

Tamala Krsna: "He calls them cheaters, rascals, rogues, in public." At all the pandals you used to do that. Oh, they couldn't stand it.

Hari-sauri: That man that stopped me in the street...

Prabhupada: What can I say? Krsna says. I am simply a child, repeating the words of Krsna.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, you always tell them that. "It is not what I'm saying; Krsna is saying." But that gets them even angrier.

Prabhupada: What can I… We are Krsna conscious. We are obliged to say like that.

Tamala Krsna: That makes them even more angry.

Prabhupada: [laughs] Actually Krsna says. Na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah [Bg 7.15] That's all, finished. [laughing] They cannot bring any defamation. We can say in the court that we are simply repeating like parrot. That's all. We have pledged to become parrot of Krsna. That's all. [end]