Audio

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Purchasing flower means they are being cheated. That's all. All third-grade flowers are supplied.

Dr. Patel: But this and that plot, these two plots are actually meant by you for growing flowers. I don't know what they're doing. They are growing ornamental plants but not flowering plants.

Gurudasa: So that piece of land is not exactly on the parikrama but off the parikrama. It's not so far from our property. You know the big park near Singhania's place?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gurudasa: Then one more park.

Prabhupada: Park? Singhania's building is there. I have seen. Park, I don't know.

Gurudasa: It's an open spot, not exactly park. It's near Fogla Ashram.

Prabhupada: Hmm. So how did you like it?

Gurudasa: Well, the piece of land is nice.

Prabhupada: Nice.

Gurudasa: It has trees on it, some. It's a little bit more than an acre, and the buildings are not very big.

Prabhupada: They can be repaired.

Gurudasa: Yes. It would be very easy to add on or construct or do whatever you want. And it's, I'd say, about five to seven minutes' walking.

Prabhupada: Not far away.

Gurudasa: Not far.

Prabhupada: You can have a garage here? So we can see?

Saurabha: Yes, you can walk on the side. [break]

Prabhupada: ...Prahlada Maharaja.

Dr. Patel: Yesterday I studied Seventh Chapter of..., Sixth Chapter of Prahlada Maharaja, and...

Prabhupada: Oh. Prahlada Maharaja's...

Dr. Patel: This morning only. Hiranyakasipu, from Srimad-Bhagavata. This morning only I read about this thing.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] ...becomes humble. God is for the humble and meek. In Bible also it is stated. And because everyone is trying to become God, how he becomes humble?

Dr. Patel: I think Christ taught humility by his own action.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. He is Vaisnava...

Dr. Patel: All Vaisnava... I mean Vaisnava acaryas and Vaisnava bhaktas are extremely humble.

Prabhupada: Kaviraja Gosvami, who has written this immortal Caitanya-caritamrta, he is presenting himself, purisera kita haite muni se laghistha : "I am lower than the worms in the stool." Just see. He is not hypocrite. He is feeling like that: "Oh, what is my value?" Purisera kita haite muni se laghistha, jagai madhai haite muni se papistha. Jagai-Madhai was a...

Dr. Patel: Those two boys, Caitanya...

Prabhupada: Yes. So he says, "I am more sinful than Jagai-Madhai." Mora nama yei laya tara punya ksaya: "If anyone remembers me, then whatever pious activities he has done, it is all finished."

Dr. Patel: These Vaisnava acaryas don't allow their feet to be touched because they feel that he should...

Prabhupada: So why they do not utilize it proper?

Dr. Patel: This is a private thing for those people opposite to yours. They don't want to be handed over to the municipality. My daughter who passed MD is now with a boy who is studying.... He has his M.D. of London. He made a special research work in Medi Chemist. They are coming two months' time.

Prabhupada: It is settled up. Very nice.

Dr. Patel: He was a first class scholar.

Prabhupada: And son? Your son?

Dr. Patel: My son is in the K.M. Hospital, a professor of medicine.

Prabhupada: No, no, he is also married? No.

Dr. Patel: He is married, yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. Father-mother's responsibility up to marriage. Then they are... They are locked. They are locked.

Dr. Patel: I am more responsible because I have got no wife.

Prabhupada: Yes. Why this road is not so wide?

Indian man: [Transl. They have widened it already.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They did, but no as much as that side.]

Indian man: [Transl. No more space available.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Wider than before.]

Indian man: [Transl. Much bigger. Also traffic movement is limited here.]

Dr. Patel: ...a lot of money in America. These boys are all from there. They are very good boys. You can get butter from Holland.

Prabhupada: We can get everything, but the government will not allow. That is the difficulty. We can get grain, food...

Dr. Patel: I think grain they would allow. So many Christian institutions from America donate butter and ghee and rice and wheat to the Christian churches here. I think they would not object. We have not tried, perhaps.

Prabhupada: No, we are trying. In Bengal they are trying.

Dr. Patel: Not here. They allow. How we are getting that Australian ghee all this time?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They allow from Australia.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They should allow from States also. [break]

Prabhupada: ...New Zealand milk is cheaper than the bottle.

Dr. Patel: Just as wine is cheaper in Paris than water. [laughter] Like that. I had to pay more for a glass of water.

Prabhupada: [to someone.] [Transl. Why don't they make it nicely? We too reside here.]

Indian man: [Transl. This statement of yours does not befit you.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Why not?]

Indian man: [Transl. Not befit.] [break]

Dr. Patel: It is not here, but...

Prabhupada: It is in Delhi.

Dr. Patel: They should come here. So they may arrive some day.

Prabhupada: So where is? Arrange to bring him. [laughter] Otherwise they will not believe.

Dr. Patel: No, no, we believe you, sir. But we want a darsana of it. [laughter]

Prabhupada: So ask me in the meantime. [break] ...not less than one lakh of devotees, at least-so crowded.

Pusta Krsna: Where is that at, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pusta Krsna: Where is that?

Prabhupada: Mayapur.

Dr. Patel: That is on Holi day, no?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Dr. Patel: And on Rama-navami day you were in Vrndavana. Were you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I was told.

Prabhupada: There also, packed up, so many. Now our temple is going first, even the other temples are so old.

Pusta Krsna: It was so crowded that you could not even walk on the road coming into our temple.

Prabhupada: And it was a barren place.

Dr. Patel: They all come to see the devotees. These foreign devotees, they are enchanted to see them. All these times we were seeing the foreign, foreign, those padres, the Christians. Now we are seeing the sanatana...

Prabhupada: And another thing is that Ramakrishna Mission has constructed temple of Ramakrishna. Nobody goes there. It is lying barren.

Dr. Patel: You were planning to raise a temple in Kuruksetra?

Prabhupada: Yes. I have applied to the government for land, twenty-five acres' land.

Dr. Patel: Very big. But is that land available to us?

Prabhupada: Yes, available. And we have asked government to give us 350 acres of land in Mayapur to construct Vedic planetarium, 350 feet high. It will require eight crores of rupees minimum. I shall exhibit there how these planetary system, Bhurloka, Goloka...

Dr. Patel: Now the Russians also have come to this conclusion, the Russian scientists and astrophysicists, that there are some planets here in the cosmos which actually have people, I mean, life like human beings. The other day I read a big article on that. Now they agree.

Prabhupada: They will agree so many things.

Dr. Patel: They will agree later on that the dialectical materialism is not the right thing, but the dialectical spiritualism is the right thing. What Karl Marx said was wrong. But they have started reading the Vedas and all these, Ramayana, and Mahabharata, and...

Prabhupada: They have got good sympathy for the Indian culture.

Dr. Patel: And if they read it, then Karl Marx teaching will go away.

Prabhupada: And we are getting enquiries from Russia of our books, about our books. We are getting enquiries. I am sending Gopala Krsna to make market of our books.

Gurudasa: They have some of our books already in Russia.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: If they start reading Srimad-Bhagavata and Bhagavad-gita, then Karl Marx will be lost, because the sanatana-dharma is a spiritual communism in fact.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gurudasa: The only difference is that the ruler never ends.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Gurudasa: The ruler never goes out of office, sanatana-dharma.

Dr. Patel: Sanatana is eternal. It is eternal religion. It is the religion of the soul and not of the body, dies. Soul is eternal, so religion is eternal. I am right, sir?

Prabhupada: Yes. Sanatana means eternal.

Dr. Patel: So this dialectical materialism wherein Karl Marx said that it is a material reaction, chemical reaction in the material, which produces consciousness, it is a falsehood. It is the consciousness keeps the material going. So they will change their opinion now.

Gurudasa: He's basing his philosophy on Hegel: thesis and antithesis.

Dr. Patel: No, no, Hegel.... Yes, Engels, not Hegel.

Gurudasa: Thesis and antithesis, and then synthesis.

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes.

Gurudasa: But it's a false philosophy.

Dr. Patel: I mean Hegel did try to improve upon Karl Marx. Really material is important. When the person dies, why the body should rot? They every day see.

Gurudasa: Prabhupada pointed out the other day that when someone dies, we have all the bodily fluids there, all the organs. Why can't we put it together and make life again?

Dr. Patel: That's right. So now they have started reading all these, our books. They will now make amendment on it. As you said, they will thesis, synthesis. The present practice of communism in Russia is much more diluted than what it was twenty, thirty years back.

Prabhupada: It should be.

Dr. Patel: And it will be totally like India after twenty years.

Gurudasa: The result is that the biggest problem in Russia is that no one comes to work. Absenteeism.

Dr. Patel: That will be here also. I have been to Ceylon, sir. And in Colombo they are giving free ration to the people. I mean, the rice.

Prabhupada: There is a story in Bengali. [Bengali proverb. Bhagera ma gaṅga paya na. "Everybody's business is nobody's business."] [Transl. Do you understand?] The woman had seven sons. The mother requested first son, "My dear boy, now I am going to die. Take me to the Ganges side." He said, "Why? You have got so many other sons, why you are requesting me?"

Dr. Patel: She was calling every one, and nobody took her.

Prabhupada: And then second son, third... Everyone said like that, and she died without Gaṅga. Bhagera ma gaṅga paya na. So this... And everyone has to work. And he thinks that "Why I shall work? Let him work. No work done."

Gurudasa: You tell the story about a man beating with a stick, and then the police constable came and said, "You have beaten him." "No, no, no. It was the stick that beat him, not me." [laughter] No responsibility.

Dr. Patel: No, but, you see, the sense of possession in human society is more important. Because they have no sense of possession.

Prabhupada: Yes. Proprietorship.

Dr. Patel: Even with all our philosophic and all our ideal learning, we have the sense of possession of this body which can't leave the moha in it. With all that, sir, then how can they do it?

Prabhupada: No, higher than that, the sense that everything is possessed by God, then it is perfection.

Dr. Patel: That's right, but...

Prabhupada: But they are making... Just like I possess something, now their possession is... Now you possess something. We are not reaching the point of God. So it is expanded selfishness. It is not perfect. Perfection will come when they understand that everything is possessed by God. Then that is perfect. Isavasyam idam sarvam . When they come to that conclusion.

Dr. Patel: They have started doing. It will come very soon. They have started studying the Upanisad in quite earnest now. I read a very good article on that, Russian newspapers, studying the philosophy of Vedas and Upanisads. [break]

Prabhupada: They read Ramayana by Tulasi dasa, translated in English, and it was finished within a week. They have got little sympathy for Indian culture.

Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada? This idea that he was discussing, how we naturally have a tendency to possess something-if I don't possess the state, I possess the body. Is this the disease?

Prabhupada: Yes. We have to nullify this, that "I don't possess anything; God possess everything." Then it is perfection.

Gurudasa: If we tell them we have nothing then they will...

Dr. Patel: No, that is why, sir, this communism cannot survive, because they say that afterward the state will vanish. It will evaporate. How can it evaporate without spiritualism there at the back? They have a materialistic ideology and material, I mean, there are changes. There is nothing permanent in material. So the communism, so-called material communism, dialectic materialism of Karl Marx, are not complete. Sanatana dharma… [break]

Gurudasa: Your name is man, and Dr. Patel.... Your title, "Dr. Patel" is main.

Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada gave an example that if you see a note on the floor...

Dr. Patel: Our name and form has no value. Only name of God has value.

Pusta Krsna: ...one person walks by...

Prabhupada: Just hear what he says.

Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada gave the example that if you see a note on the floor, three different people, one person sees it and ignores it, so he doesn't know the proper utilization of the thing. Another person sees it, picks it up and puts it in his pocket. He is dishonest. The third person sees it, picks it up, and seeks out the real owner. So there has to be Krsna consciousness; otherwise how do we know who everything belongs to?

Dr. Patel: That is spiritual culture. And spirit itself... Krsna is... I mean, without Krsna there cannot be anything. That is the highest culture.

Gurudasa: Krsna even lets people forget Him.

Dr. Patel: [plane overhead] ...maya. Vedas say that God has kept this despite of people outgoing… [break]

Prabhupada: ...and prasada shall be ready. Anyone comes, he may pick it. Then it will be nice.

Dr. Patel: But God has made maya so strong that if the man is not attracted or caught into the web of maya, the whole samsara would not go. [laughs] That because God wants to...

Prabhupada: The same argument. If people do not become criminal, how the prison house will be maintained?

Dr. Patel: This is a prison house.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Dr. Patel: God wants the prison house to...

Gurudasa: No, no. First there are so many criminals, and then prison house has to be built. Because there are so many, a bigger prison house has to be built.

Prabhupada: Just like now medical science is improving means hospital increasing. That means people are becoming more diseased. And they are taking it advanced.

Dr. Patel: No, no, modern advancement is required, even humanity, sir. Therefore the advancement [indistinct] some thirty, forty, fifty years. So modern medicine is always preventative. Now we have understood [indistinct] colleague, making improvement of our hospitals.

Prabhupada: Stop disease; otherwise where is improvement? [aside:] Hare Krsna.

[break] Bengali poetry, krsna-bhulia jiva bhoga vancha kare, pasete maya tare japatiya dhare [Prema-vivarta 6.2]. As soon as the living entity desires sense gratification, immediately maya captures.

Dr. Patel: That is what I want... I really meant. Man is producing the desire. You cannot, I mean... [break]

Prabhupada: New prarabdha ...sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg 18.66].

Dr. Patel: New problem, do you mean to say?

Prabhupada: No, old problem, everything.

Dr. Patel: Nullified.

Prabhupada: Yes, all, all squared up, all accounts squared up. Begin new chapter of your life. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg 14.26]. As soon as one begins devotional service, he shall be clean of all sinful reactions. Hare Krsna.

Dr. Patel: So why not stay for a longer time here?

Prabhupada: Nobody comes to hear.

Dr. Patel: When you are staying here in Bombay your health does improve very well.

Prabhupada: No, Bombay I like very much. Because I like Bombay and this beach, I was so much persistent for getting this land. That is the history. Every one of my disciples, they declined. I insisted, "I must possess this land." And Nair was thinking that "This man has no money, so just involve him, and whatever money he gives us, I shall take it."

Dr. Patel: But before he could sell, he died, poor fellow.

Indian man: [Transl. Who Nair?]

Dr. Patel: He is also Nair. He died, no?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man: [Transl. Oh that Nair.] [break]

Prabhupada: And when she decided to kill Krsna, she was killed.

Dr. Patel: And Krsna gave...

Prabhupada: Yes, she got good fortune.

Dr. Patel: Gave her the mukti.

Prabhupada: Cambat? Cambata? Cambata means this...

Dr. Patel: This aviation fellow.

Prabhupada: No, that what is called? Khambata.

Dr. Patel: ...he has got some planes here. Some safari service.

[break] They are forsaking all their big [indistinct]

Gurudasa: Why? Why not technology?

Dr. Patel: I don't know.

Gurudasa: Because the Vedas is the essence of everything. That's why. There's technology here. Why we don't steal the technology?

Dr. Patel: Because we have no technology. That is our technology. You are taking our technology.

Gurudasa: So why you are not taking your technology, the Vedic system?

Dr. Patel: We ourselves are echnology. We have ourselves the original technology.

Gurudasa: Indians should take the Vedic technology. [end]