740401MW.BOM
740401MW.BOM
Morning Walk
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April 1, 1974, Bombay
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April 1, 1974, Bombay
740401MW-BOMBAY [52:10 Minutes]
The body and mind is made of material nature
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adhiyajnah katham ko 'tra
dehe 'smin madhusudana prayana-kale ca katham jneyo 'si niyatatmabhih [Bg 8.2] Very important.
Prabhupada: Yes. So these are the questions. So the answer will be there.
Prabhupada: Aksara? First of all try to understand. Aksara... Aksara means "that does not fall down." That is aksara. Aksara and ksara. The spiritual world is aksara, and this material world is ksara. So the living entities or God in the spiritual world, they are all aksara. And in the material world we are all ksara. Therefore aksaram paramam brahma. The Supreme...
Chandobhai: Svabhavo 'dhyatmam.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Chandobhai: Ah, bodily and mentally, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Mentally. Spiritually... Inner existence.
Chandobhai: Body and mind. Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: ...creation.
Chandobhai: Creation, yes.
Prabhupada: So by working with the body, we create another creation.
Prabhupada: Just like now I am human being. Next life I may be a demigod, I may be a dog. That I, creation. That is sarga.
Prabhupada: Karma, anyone can understand. As you... Fruitive activities. You do something and enjoy the good or bad result. That is karma. You do something, either good or bad. So the result you'll have to suffer or enjoy.
Prabhupada: As soon as you come to the material world, the ahaṅkara is there, that "I... I belong to India," "I belong to America," "I belong to brahmana community," "...ksatriya..." The ahaṅkara is there. Ahaṅkara-vimudhatma. So long this ahaṅkara is there, "I am this, I am that," all bodily concept.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Perishable.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: Purusas cadhidaivatam.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: That is what I said.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Just like these activities, devotional service, it does not produce any result. And the ordinary man... Suppose they are also selling books. An ordinary man also selling books, it appears to be the same. But they are not creating any result. But ordinary bookseller, he's creating his result, papa-punya. That is karma and akarma. And vikarma. Vikarma means against the...
Dr. Patel: Although the actions which are prohibitory...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: No. Just wait. There is a verse by Kulasekhara. Kulasekhara. Adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsah [MM 33], he says. He says, "My Lord..." The idea is that "Now I am in quite fit order. So let me remember You and die. Because at the end of... At the end of... Kapha-pitta-vayu, there will be disorder. Smaranam kutas te. At that time, it is..."
Prabhupada: Yes. "Therefore, my Lord, I pray that adyaiva, immediately, because now I am fit."
Dr. Patel: Right now.
Prabhupada: Right now. "Now I am fit. So let me remember You and die." So one must be fit. You see, even in daily, in dream, while sleeping, we forget so many things. Everything we forget.
Chandobhai: Yes.
Prabhupada: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?
Dr. Patel: My father spoke om, and he stopped breathing and...
Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.
Prabhupada: Then he practiced. That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice om or Hare Krsna, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: Whatever we do of our whole, all our whole, all day of life, it comes at the end. That is why you must continue to do for the life.
Prabhupada: Twenty-four hours. Kirtaniyah sada harih . Always Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna... In this way practicing, if somebody is fortunate enough, he can remember.
Prabhupada: So...
Dr. Patel: Therefore at the last moment you... But you can't get that last moment in this position, because you have, whole life, you have...
Prabhupada: Yes, you have spoiled your life simply in material activities, how you can remember?
Prabhupada: But you are under the body. Prakrteh kriyamanani [Bg 3.27]. Body and mind is working. Unless you practice to be above body and mind... That is bhakti-yoga. Mam cavyabhicarini-bhakti-yoga..., sa gunan samatitya [Bg 14.26]. You cannot expect that you go on doing all these material activities and at the time of death you'll remember Krsna. That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: That can't be done.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Chandobhai: Should be a real concentrated difference
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: When you do the work, you should be a real concentration.
Prabhupada: That is not possible.
Chandobhai: Therefore there is no... Because your attachment is more to the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: ...reserves of that...
Chandobhai: Acaropanam.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: [Sanskrit]
Dr. Patel: Just as Bharata did it.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, that is example. Even Bharata Maharaja, such a great personality, simply due to little affection to a cub of deer, he became a deer. So these people are attached to so many things. So how much risk is there at the time of death they do not understand. Therefore Krsna says, mam ekam.
Dr. Patel: Therefore every time, every moment...
Prabhupada: That is... This is stressed. If you...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Yudhya means "do your activity."
Prabhupada: Yes. But always think. Just like these people are..., these, they are doing that. They are doing their duty. Somebody's going to there, somebody's going there, somebody's there. But their chanting is there. That is not avoided. That is not avoided. Sada tad bhava-bhavitah [Bg 8.6]. Then Krsna favors, "Yes, he has done his best."
Prabhupada: Ah.
Dr. Patel: Yudhya ca. Yudhya ca.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: One... Abhyasa-yoga... You practice this. Therefore we say, "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." This is abhyasa-yoga. When one becomes attached to chanting, he doesn't require to be under discipline. But so long he's not practiced, he must be under... Just like a boy, he's instructed by the teacher, "You must give me at least four page handwriting." So four page handwriting means writing, writing, he'll be practiced. So therefore these are the practice. You must...
Prabhupada: Nanya-gamina. Because cetah is..., mind is very flickering. So unless you fix up your mind under some regulative principle, then it is not possible. [indistinct] Everyone becomes paramahamsa: "Oh, I am now advanced. I do not require all these regulative principles."
Dr. Patel: Parthanucintayan. By thinking about... [break] ...there's a mind set.
Prabhupada: Smartavyah satato visnuh. Therefore one has to think of Visnu always, twenty-four hours, in so many ways.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Ah. [aside:] Hare Krsna.
[break] ...they meditate all the life, the so-called yogis. Something impersonal... Some light, like this, like that. Light may be also, if that Brahman light. But here it is specifically mentioned...
Dr. Patel: Especially spontaneously you feel some light...
Unless one is fixed up in the personal form of the Lord, there is chance of falling down. They fall down actually. We have seen so many sannyasis. Just like at the present moment, Karpatri. He's now busy in politics.
Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, Citrabhanu.
Dr. Patel: Citrabhanu, or... [break]
Prabhupada: ...one is God.
Bhagavata: Citrabhanu.
Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, yes.
Bhagavata: Brahmananda Swami met him in Mombasa, Srila Prabhupada, and he was speaking all this nonsense. Then he went to America... [break]
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then?
Dr. Patel: They should not talk anything else except Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. Vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvarnane [SB 9.4.18]. So this is sam... Unless you give engagement to the senses, proper, how you can control it? Your eyes want to see beautiful man or woman. [aside:] Hare Krsna. But when you are captivated by seeing the Deity of Krsna and Radha, then it's..., that eyes being engaged otherwise is stopped. That has been explained by Prabodhananda Sarasvati,
Protkhata-damstrayate. Protkhata means extracted, the poison tree. The poison tree of the tee..., uh, teeth of the snake is dangerous. Now, here is a snake. Everyone is afraid, "Oh, snake! Snake! Snake!" But if everyone knows that his poison teeth have been taken away, then there is no more danger. Similarly, these indriyas have been compared with the kala-sarpa-patali. Kala-sarpa-patali. But...
Dr. Patel: What do you call?
Chandobhai: That is om in that way.
Dr. Patel: I told you.
Chandobhai:
Prabhupada: So there is no need of doing this or that. Simply always remember Krsna. That is the conclusion.
Chandobhai:
Prabhupada: No.
Prabhupada: A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary system. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka-that is the highest-where you can get millions of years your life duration, but still, ksine punye martya-lokam visanti [Bg 9.21], you have to come back.
Prabhupada: Now He explaining what is Brahmaloka. That one day of Brahma, you cannot calculate. And still, you have to die.
Chandobhai: So our hundred years is nothing for...
Prabhupada: It is nothing.
Chandobhai: It is a moment only.
Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas.
Prabhupada: That... Four yugas multiplied by one thousand.
Dr. Patel: By one thousand.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Four thousand.
Prabhupada: So four yuga means forty-three lakhs of years. Now, add three zeroes. Forty-three lakhs of years, add three zeroes. Then how many?
Dr. Patel: About four, about... Car...
Prabhupada: Eh? Forty-three lakhs, as...
Prabhupada: Forty-three, eight zeroes.
Dr. Patel: Car... [Gujarati]
Prabhupada: This is Brahma's twelve days, uh, twelve hours.
Chandobhai: Why not... There's a little question to ask: What are the Pitrloka, Martyaloka and this...?
Prabhupada: They are planets.
Chandobhai: And the Brahmaloka and all the...?
Prabhupada: Yes. They are different... Just like Candraloka, Suryaloka, Vayuloka.
Chandobhai: What is that Pitrloka actually?
Prabhupada: Pitrloka means the... There is a..., called a Pitrloka.
Chandobhai: But then in the Pitrloka is it maybe that, there may be remembrances of the [indistinct] and all these things or...
Prabhupada: No, these are all material.
Chandobhai: No, let [indistinct] from him.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, Vaisnavas do not do so.
Dr. Patel: We are... We, all are, all of us, are we not doing...
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: That's right. But a Vaisnava family...
Prabhupada: No.
Chandobhai: Grhasthas, grhasthas.
Dr. Patel: Grhasthas.
Prabhupada: He, whatever he may be. That is stated. That is stated that...
Dr. Patel: Only Jains can do.
We are... Just like we are indebted to our forefathers, family, similarly we are indebted to devas, the demigods. Just like the sun is supplying light. So we are indebted. Deva, rsi, to big great, big, big, saintly rsis. They have given us the sastras. Devarsi, devarsi bhuta... Bhuta, ordinary living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. And another, horse, is giving me service. So devarsi-bhuta apta, relatives. We take so much help from relatives.
Devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam, ordinary human being. Pitrnam: and the pitrs. So we are debted to so many. If you want to clear up the debts, it will take millions of births. [laughter] So devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam-pitrnam nayam kiṅkara na rni ca rajan [SB 11.5.41]. This man is neither servant nor indebted. Who? Sarvatmana yah saranam mukundam: one who has taken... That Krsna says, that "You just surrender to Me. I will protect you." So if he does not do anything else... One may think that he is being entangled in sinful activities because he does not do other duties. But Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg 18.66].
So one who has taken shelter, full shelter unto Krsna, he doesn't require to do any so-called social, political and other duties. He doesn't require.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. When we...
Prabhupada: That is the spiritual world. That is the spiritual...
Prabhupada: That is spiritual world. That is spiritual world, beyond this material world. So they have no information what is that spiritual world. Therefore it is said that... Here it is going on, pralaya, anya pralaya. During Brahma's night, there is dissolution. Again creation. And when Brahma dies, there is another dissolution. That is going on. But paras tasmat, above this creation and dissolution, there is another nature. That is sanatana. That is eternal.
Prabhupada: Ah, so why the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: And that mama...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Chandobhai: But He's not Krsna. He is Krsna also.
Prabhupada: Yes, He is Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
That is the...
Prabhupada: This is material calculation.
Dr. Patel: [Gujarati]
Prabhupada: This is material calculation.
Dr. Patel:
That is... Now you come.
Dr. Patel: This is the last word.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...yuktena. Now just this woman is carrying a load on her head, how she's keeping balance? He cannot do that.
Dr. Patel: That is Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said. No, no, that is not Indira Gandhi. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said the same thing as you say...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...that she should remain...
Dr. Patel: While we're talking about all these things, but the mind is in the Lord there. Their mind is on the Lord.
Bhagavata: Prabhupada, can you tell us maybe something about Lord Ramacandra's activities?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: Now, you can..., some of you can speak about Lord Ramacandra. No? Dr. Patel, you can speak something about...
Dr. Patel: About what?
Bhagavata: Lord Ramacandra's activities. [break]
Dr. Patel: God will not oblige the brahmanas unfortunately. He'll oblige only the ksatriyas. I don't know why.
Prabhupada: Because He comes: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg 4.8]. That is ksatriya's business. Sadhu protection [Hindi]. This is ksatriya's business. God has got two business: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita, it is difficult. [laughs] It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam, dharma-samsthapanarthaya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. [break] ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the civilization.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the proper civilization. Before, when... [break]
Prabhupada: ...civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman [Cc Madhya 8.58]. The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Visnu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.
Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?
Prabhupada: Yes. The animals, they do not know.
[break] They do not know it, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme, Visnu." So unless the society comes to this consciousness, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme," that is not human society. Now, how they will understand? Therefore four divisions.
Prabhupada: Guna... Yes. So if the four divisions work nicely, then it is healthy society. Otherwise it is not. If different parts of your body work nicely, then you are healthy.
Dr. Patel: Each section of the society has to, I mean, work as a...
Prabhupada: For the maintenance.
Dr. Patel: ...part of the whole.
Dr. Patel: They fall down from their own position.
[break] ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. So they do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader.
The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. [break] ...there are even shops they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they..., they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.
Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.
Prabhupada: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. The brahmacarya is so much stressed. Tapasa brahmacaryena samena damena va, tyagena saucena yamena niyamena va. This is the process of human life. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1].
This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in sastra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhadeva is forbidding His sons, that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasa. Tapo divyam putrakah...
Dr. Patel: Rsabhadeva's hundred sons.
Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.
Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge on the street.
Prabhupada: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Sva-vid... Sva-vid-varaha ustra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"
Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.
Prabhupada: Yes. That's all. That is stated: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19]. He's also a big pasuh. That's all. Otherwise, how he can dare to say that "Bhajana is nuisance"? Because it is pasuh. He's not even human being. Otherwise how he dares say like that? [break] ...reply that dacoit. If I reply, then I have to call him, "You are a pasuh."
Dr. Patel: And he told me...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...Giriraja, that he wants to reply separately. [break]
Prabhupada: ...why...
Dr. Patel: His confidence.
Prabhupada: No. Their reply is murkhasya lathausadhih. [break]
Prabhupada: Murkhasya lathausadhih. It is very... [break] ...from this movement.
Dr. Patel: I have not read that letter.
Prabhupada: No.
Dr. Patel: Which way it has come? Which way, that letter? [break]
Prabhupada: ...barking, what is the use of arguing with him?
Indian man (1): No, I have not read it.
Dr. Patel: No, we have not read. I don't know how it came to your...
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...talking of this letter of commissioner.
Dr. Patel: Oh, commissioner. [break]
Dr. Patel: Yes, they are taking bath. [break]
Prabhupada: ...says that "Why don't you go to the forest?"
Dr. Patel: But that somebody must have told you.
Prabhupada: No, no. One of the important men. What is the name of that...?
Giriraja: Yogendrabhai.
Dr. Patel: Yogendra Patel.
Prabhupada: [aside:] Hare Krsna.
[break] ...garland, this girl. Garland just like beads.
Satsvarupa: Make a garland out of stone?
Prabhupada: Yes. Not stone.
Satsvarupa: Shells.
Prabhupada: They are conchshells, small conchshells. They are called gunja, gunja. They are called gunja? [break]
Indian man (1): One who does everything for...?
Prabhupada: For Krsna.
Indian man (1): For Krsna.
Prabhupada: Just like you are doing, doing some work. For whom you are doing?
Indian man (1): For my own benefit.
Indian man (1): But [Hindi], if you do it for others, for Krsna, for Krsna's...
Prabhupada: Others... Others means... That is also a humbug. You cannot do anything for others. You do everything for yourself. That is a false propaganda. You see? That is humbugism. So either you can do for yourself or for Krsna. That's all.
Indian man (1): I see.
Dr. Patel: [Gujarati]
Prabhupada: [break] ...become a slogan nowadays. Nobody does for others. "For others," "For the poor," these are all humbug.
Indian man (1): You see people are doing so many hospitals, that is for others?
Indian man (1): [Hindi] Helping these temples, hospitals...?
Prabhupada: Yes. Temple construction is different from hospital construction. That is for Krsna.
Indian man (1): But suppose somebody's doing hospitals. Is it not for others?
Prabhupada: Yes. But how many you can give shelter? A few. There are so many suffering people. You cannot provide hospital for all of them. The hospitals are increasing, and the disease also increasing.
Indian man (1): No, as you say that doing for others is humbug.
Prabhupada: No, no. Humbug means he cannot do it.
Prabhupada: He cannot do it. He can do to his satisfaction only. That is... That is also for his satisfaction.
Indian man (1): I see.
Prabhupada: Because by opening hospital, you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. Then what you are doing for the others? That is for your satisfaction. Try to understand. Because you cannot do anything, but still, you are wasting your time. That is for your satisfaction.
Indian man (1): Naturally for myself.
Prabhupada: Yes. [aside:] Hare Krsna. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?
Indian man (1): We can do our own satisfaction.
Indian man (1): That is very correct.
Prabhupada: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Krsna wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.
Indian man (1): Yes. When he surrendered to Krsna, that was his...
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the only purpose of life. Anything that is done, that is useless waste of time. Therefore Krsna particularly said, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vra... [Bg 18.66]. That ekam. You try to satisfy Krsna only. That will give you perfection. Otherwise your own satisfaction, that's all.
Indian man (1): Yes, very correct, very correct.
Indian man (1): I read fifteen percent power cut from today in the state. They have not able to do the service in electric. [break]
Prabhupada: ...cut, cent per cent. [break]
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Yasomatinandana: ...formed by anybody.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Yasomatinandana: Doing only for Krsna.
Makhanlal: Which means?
Prabhupada: "Whatever you do, you the result give Me."
Makhanlal: To Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavata: Then when he's following those nine activities, then he's superior.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Now go on doing your duty, you'll understand gradually. Don't try to understand in one day.
Bhagavata: It will be revealed to us as we act.
[break] ...answers.
Dr. Patel: What I will say now... I will make one man sit between the two, Vaisnavas.
Prabhupada: You know what the paramahamsas do?
Dr. Patel: Uh-huh.
Prabhupada: They are mixed up.
Dr. Patel: It is what I gave to that man. Mix up, then it is far better.
Prabhupada: Then they are all paramahamsas.
Dr. Patel: Then let them mix. We don't mind. But they don't mix very good.
Indian man (2): [Gujarati]
Dr. Patel: [Gujarati conversation] But yesterday was I am. Next time I will...
Prabhupada: Fasting.
Dr. Patel: Fasting yesterday, fasting [break]
Prabhupada: Ramachandra.
Devotee: Till the sun goes down.
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes.
Dr. Patel: Not the sun. Whole day till tomorrow morning. That is how you are fasting? If the sun goes down in the night..., daytime?
Prabhupada: No, [Gujarati]. But if one can continue, that's all right. [end]
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