Audio
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Pancadravida: Shall we continue reading, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pancadravida: This is the chapter "Description of the Rasa Dance." [break]
Satadhanya: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Eh? That is all right?
Prabhupada: I'm thirsty. Fruit juice?
Satadhanya: Would you like some fruit juice now, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break]
Hari Prasad: Everything is all right.
Prabhupada: It is improving?
Hari Prasad: Yes, it is. [break]
Pancadravida: We have an arrangement now that Spanish BBT is sending funds every month to Hyderabad temple to finish the construction, and then, to pay back the loan that you gave, we're also sending in contributions to pay back that loan.
Prabhupada: So, [laughs] what do I need? The money is coming from outside. Never mind.
Hari Prasad: There is no lack of money, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So, in the temple everything is going on?
Hari Prasad: Yes, it's going on.
Prabhupada: People are coming?
Hari Prasad: Yes, many people are coming. And it has become very...
Prabhupada: Popular.
Hari Prasad: It is already popular.
Hari Prasad: Everybody is concerned about your health.
Hari Prasad: Yes, everything is very, very much regulated now.
Hari Prasad: No, Prabhupada. So far, they haven't started. When you were there for a few weeks, one or two weeks they had done it.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Prabhupada: Hmm. Why? Why they are not distributing now?
Hari Prasad: They have stopped it.
Hari Prasad: When Prabhupada was there, continuously they had after you left for a week or two.
Hari Prasad: For a week or two. No, once in a while they were doing it.
Devotee: Probably.
Hari Prasad: But not daily.
Bhavananda: We do every day. But on the weekends we serve khicuri, and during the week we serve...
Prabhupada: ...see that prasadam distribution goes on.
Hari Prasad: The weather at Hyderabad is now very pleasant.
Prabhupada: Now.
Hari Prasad: Yes. And it will remain for another two months.
Prabhupada: Very pleasant.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Hari Prasad: It is not sultry. In the daytime also it is quite pleasant, not very warm.
Prabhupada: Oh. Vegetable growing?
Hari Prasad: Yes, vegetables are...
Prabhupada: And rice, dal?
Hari Prasad: Paddy is good this year. They have grown. There was drought. For one month there had been no rains when it should have been, in September. Whole of September was dry. Otherwise entire twenty acres of paddy they had, and six acres which is fed from irrigation from tanks is very good. Paddy, maize also. [break]
Prabhupada: Things are improving.
Hari Prasad: Yes, they are. There is no worry as far as this management of the temple and farm is concerned.
Hari Prasad: Both are very much dedicated and devoted.
Hari Prasad: Tejiyas, his movements are too many. That is a problem.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Pancadravida: The construction is going on nicely?
Hari Prasad: Yes, construction is... But except a very slow stage, but that is not fault of the... Their labor, availability, and all that. They come and they just now come. It is a usual practice for these small, small things. I think it should finish now in about a month's time. [break]
Hari Prasad: One thing, Prabhupada, this discourse and all is not, in the evenings, which should have been there. It was earlier, when...
Bhavananda: When Acyutananda was there.
Hari Prasad: When Acyutananda was there he was attracting crowds and...
Tamala Krsna: Acyutananda was giving good discourse.
Hari Prasad: Yes, he was every time, I think. When he was there, three, four hundred minimum crowd used to be there, and they used to take interest in question-answers. And it had become a lively, interesting...
Hari Prasad: Yes, good speaker, or... Or on this Caitanya philosophy daily, if some lectures are arranged and discourse is arranged. If you can permit, Prabhupada, there's Bhagavatam discourse in the daytime, and all of this who know Hindi fluently on Caitanya philosophy... Yesterday I saw this rasa-lila also. If suppose some rasa arrangement also is made.
Prabhupada: Who?
Tamala Krsna: He says that there should be good speaker in Hindi. But Acyutananda could not speak Hindi.
Hari Prasad: No, no. His was a different thing, whether Hindi or English. He was attracting very big crowd.
Hari Prasad: His bhajanas and all that.
Hari Prasad: It has become more or less a pilgrim center. Anybody who comes to Hyderabad must visit.
Hari Prasad: Yes, yes.
Hari Prasad: Yes, yes, definitely. After that Veṅkatesvara, Birla temple and these two temples, anybody who comes, they visit.
Hari Prasad: Yes.
Hari Prasad: No, but they can come for this discourse or education on our philosophy and all that. If that starts, it would be a wonderful thing.
Hari Prasad: It would be a really wonderful thing then.
Pancadravida: Lokanatha is...
Hari Prasad: People would love to... There, in the South India, people are interested in such type of philosophy. And they discuss, they argue, they get convinced or they convince you, and they don't feel offended.
Pancadravida: No, to visit. See how he would do.
Hari Prasad: Use of guesthouse also is made in the temple.
Hari Prasad: I think four rooms.
Hari Prasad: Yes. Sometimes people come stay.
Hari Prasad: Yes, members.
Hari Prasad: They're all well built. As far as management of the temple, management side is perfect. Financial side sometimes causes worry.
Hari Prasad: No, management side of both the farm and the temple is good. It's really, I should say, remarkable achievement.
Pancadravida: How about Mr. Pulla Reddy? Does he show interest? Does he come?
Hari Prasad: He's very much devoted, dedicated.
Pancadravida: Maybe in the future he'd give the front land to the temple?
Hari Prasad: That is a...
Prabhupada: Unless one is rogue, he would not like. [laughs] Krsna consciousness...
These are the sastra. Mano-rathena, those who are on the speculative platform, they cannot have their spiritual qualities. It is a... To the modern world it is a novel idea. It is not idea; this is original qualification. Part and parcel of God, it must be godlike. Gold is gold, may be a small particle. Similarly, living entity, part and parcel of God, so he is God undoubtedly-in a small particle. But that is sufficient for his perfection. They are being misled other ways, in the wrong side. So who will not like it, unless he's a rogue. Huh?
Prabhupada: Never mind. We have got big establishment and our these European and American young boys, they have been trained up. Otherwise, how could I manage? We have nothing to do with politics. Rather, we are giving social service. What we'll do, politics? It is not our business. There are so many people. So the government should give us chance to organize a society for the highest benefit of human being. And they can see from our books what is our idea. [break]
Prabhupada: Did you show them the invoice of what book already we have got?
Gopala Krsna: I told him the amount. I told him this year we have orders for Rs. twenty-five lakhs, and I said, "This is just the first year, and worldwide we print over eight crores. So this is just the beginning." So they liked it. And I also gave him the Hindi Bhagavatam like you had told me. And he turned out... This man who is handling our case is a Marwari, Mr. Pandey. So Marwaris are very pious; they're better than these others. So he liked the Hindi Bhagavatam very much. So I gave him the Hindi Bhagavatam and the English. [break]
Prabhupada: You are not to be gagged anymore?
Trivikrama: Not to be gagged. [laughter]
Gopala Krsna: That was our biggest problem. The president of India is presently in Hyderabad, so Mahamsa Maharaja was in Delhi, and we have a Life Member, Panilal Peddy in Hyderabad..., Polareddy, who knows the President very well. So I asked Mahamsa Maharaja to go with Polareddy to the President to see if he will come to Bombay to inaugurate our temple. Also, we are thinking of inviting some foreign ministers of countries like Nepal, which is a Hindu kingdom, and Mauritius. Because if these foreign ministers or some minister from these countries come, then it will lend more credit, and we'll get better coverage.
Prabhupada: You can show our South African success.
Prabhupada: So many.
Prabhupada: Who is the President?
Prabhupada: Sanjeeva, he was Home Minister? No.
Gopala Krsna: No, that was Brahmananda Reddy, who you met. We had a program at his house once.
Gopala Krsna: I think if Indira Gandhi would have been in power we wouldn't have got it. But Janata Party is better for us. Because Indira... Brahmananda Reddy would always say he'll give it-I saw him several times-but do nothing. [break] ...Party's a little more positive in this direction.
Prabhupada: That will be nice.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: So we should require that they have GBC authorization and..., with the embassy.
Prabhupada: Our GBC should select. Not...
Atreya Rsi: Some way...
Prabhupada: ...supplied?
Prabhupada: "A loan payable when able."
Prabhupada: A loan, payable when able.
Prabhupada: Atreya Rsi? This kind of loan is very good.
Atreya Rsi: Very good.
Prabhupada: You take loan-"payable when able." [laughter]
Prabhupada: That's all right. [laughs]
Prabhupada: Oh!
Prabhupada: Yes. Now you must have good godown. Otherwise books will be stolen.
Prabhupada: And market it will be sold at cheap rate. Then it will reduce its importance.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Prabhupada: Money you'll get. There is no scarcity. Atreya Rsi will give you.
Prabhupada: Their country is very rich now.
Prabhupada: Who has got such substantial books? Nowhere in the world.
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, I also spoke to the Chinese Embassy in Delhi yesterday. I said I'd like to go to China, and I wanted to find out what the possibilities were. So they said since I have Canadian citizenship, they said I should write to the Canadian High Com..., to the Chinese Embassy in Ottawa. I told them I'm from a publishing house that publishes books on ancient Indian culture. And I found out that they do not teach any Sanskrit in China, but they have Hindi and Urdu departments. Peking University has a department on Asian studies that teaches Hindi and Urdu.
Prabhupada: Let us introduce in Hindi.
Prabhupada: No, in Calcutta we have got many Chinese. They speak fluently.
Gopala Krsna: This Chinese was from Peking, not Indian-born. And also, I was thinking we can say that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is one of the biggest printers in the world, and we are seriously thinking of buying Chinese paper for printing. And we can buy Chinese paper if it's good, because I found out that Chinese paper is as good as Japanese paper, and it is cheaper.
Prabhupada: No, we can print there also, in China.
Prabhupada: Yes, they have got paper.
Prabhupada: Sleeping means weakness.
Devotee: Weakness.
Prabhupada: No, too much sleeping means weakness.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Bhavananda felt it was due to not sleeping at night that you were sleeping during the day. But you slept an awful lot today. But yet...
Prabhupada: No, today avoid.
Prabhupada: So tonight don't give me.
Prabhupada: Anyway, tonight don't try to give me.
Prabhupada: All right, I'll try to take.
Prabhupada: No, that is natural.
Prabhupada: If you pass stool, there will be less urine.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Prabhupada: I'll try.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Prabhupada: Oh.
Prabhupada: Oh, really?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. [to Svarupa Damodara] You can't read it? Okay. Is there a flashlight? The heading, Srila Prabhupada, says, "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." Nonphysical view. "Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group, life is derived from atoms and molecules. The Russian scientist Dr. A. L. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957." Fifty-seven or thirty-seven?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Tamala Krsna: It says here the challengers want some solid proof that life comes from matter. They're not willing to be duped simply by this man's statement. They want to see some real examples. "At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vrndavana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed..." Srila Prabhupada, do you want it Bhaktivedanta Institute or Bhaktivedanta Swami?
Prabhupada: Oh, that's all right.
Tamala Krsna: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science, on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, Associate Professor of Philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, Professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely on terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher-order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gita. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."
Prabhupada: Hmm. A good article.
Prabhupada: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.
Prabhupada: It is a good article.
Prabhupada: So it is good article.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. [devotees chanting japa] He wrote to the secretary, Srila Prabhupada. Haridasa. There's a letter written. He says, "Dear Tamala Krsna Maharaja, please accept my most humble obeisances at your feet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Gopala Krsna Prabhu has shown me the voucher where ISKCON Bombay owed to BBT India Rs. 70,000. When Srila Prabhupada said he wanted to stay with us, I got greatly encouraged and had a desire in my heart to pay back this money to the BBT for Srila Prabhupada."
Prabhupada: Hmm? I could not follow.
Prabhupada: I could not follow what he said.
Tamala Krsna: He says... He found out that the Bombay temple owed the BBT 70,000 rupees. So he says when he heard that you had decided that you wanted to live and not leave us, he got very encouraged and inspired. So he decided on his own that he wanted to pay back this money to the BBT for you. He says, "I have been encouraging all the preachers here at ISKCON Bombay to go out and collect the money to pay off this debt to the BBT. Srila Prabhupada has made all this arrangement very easily because of his encouragement to us. Even devotees who have engagements where they are not likely to make a Life Member are making Life Members very easily and are collecting money. And even persons not expected to become members are now becoming members. This is all due to the desire in the hearts of the preachers here in Bombay to serve Srila Prabhupada. And by the grace of Srila Prabhupada, everything is coming very smoothly. This is confirmed in our hearts that without Srila Prabhupada, we cannot do any single work in this movement. Srila Prabhupada gives us encouragement just to kindly agree to stay with us. So yesterday, on Dasara day, we collected over 21,000 rupees and made ten members."
Prabhupada: [laughs] Very good.
Trivikrama: ...by your mercy.
Prabhupada: No. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavat... [SB 5.18.12]. Any devotee can become. That letter, mayor's letter also, it carries weight. What is his name?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. And the Statesman report, it is very, very...
Prabhupada: Hmm, yes.
Pancadravida: This change with Haridasa is a miracle.
Prabhupada: Hmm. Bombay is the most rich city in India. And now they are willing to help us. So there will be no scarcity of money. Wherever you'll go, you'll get it.
Pancadravida: Your project too, personal project.
Prabhupada: So when it is going...?
Prabhupada: That building?
Prabhupada: That, another building or godown?
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Pancadravida: It is a long way from this grass hut we used to live in, Srila Prabhupada. [laughter]
Prabhupada: Gradually the whole world will be sympathetic. Everyone will recognize that they are doing real service.
Prabhupada: I think you have to cleanse my...
Tamala Krsna: Okay. First we'll cleanse, then we'll sit Prabhupada up. Okay. [break] For one thing, just like this prasadam that Bhakti-caru Maharaja prepared is good for stopping..., you know, it's against passing stool. It will make a binding effect. That's why I thought you might appreciate it. Bhakti-caru made it especially because of that. It's like medicine. But nice-tasting medicine. You could try.
Prabhupada: Yes, I can try.
Upendra: You can take the shoulders and... [indistinct] Okay.
Tamala Krsna: Many people were in the temple tonight. The kirtana party that has come from Mayapur, they were chanting Hare Krsna very sweetly, and the whole temple room was filled with people sitting, listening and waiting for the arati. Very nice program. Think you'll try to take a little more, Srila Prabhupada? Bhakti-caru can feed you.
[pause] You'll sit up for a little while? Can I scratch your back?
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Prabhupada: Hmm. If you can make some resting place, then I can sit down more.
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Baradraj: There's more pillows coming for Srila Prabhupada.
[backgound discussion among devotees about getting pillows]
Prabhupada: It is giving pain.[?]
Baradraj: Srila Prabhupada? If you want, you can lean back. I'm holding the pillows in the back. [break]
Prabhupada: ...reported.
Prabhupada: You purchase few copies more. It is very important.
Prabhupada: [Transl. Read it.]
Hari Prasad: "The nonphysical view on the origin of the species..." [break]
Prabhupada: Our... Our O.B.L. Kapoor.
Hari Prasad: What does he say?
Tamala Krsna: He says life comes from atoms and molecules, Dr. Kapoor. This is his conclusion after all these years reading Caitanya Mahaprabhu's philosophy. He said like that in the conference.
Hari Prasad: He said?
Prabhupada: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.
Jayadvaita: [reading article] "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vrndavana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO.
Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science, on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, Associate Professor of Philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, Professor of Biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science.
Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life, ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said.
Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supported the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher-order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.
All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in Bhagavad-gita. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."
Prabhupada: [Transl. How did you like the article?]
Bhagatji: [Transl. Very nice.]
Prabhupada: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hmm?
Prabhupada: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. "Come on," we are challenging. "Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalist."
Prabhupada: Yes, we have got enough place.
Prabhupada: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.
Prabhupada: Let it become.
Prabhupada: That we shall have in..., conveniently, not immediately. Immediately there is Bombay.
Prabhupada: [Transl. In Bombay, wherever we go in Bombay people give donation. In one day we collect 21,000/- rupees. In one single day. People give generously.] And the mayor, ex-mayor, has given telegram. Where is that telegram?
Tamala Krsna: This is a telegram... It says, "Pray God, Krsna, to give you long life to spread Indian culture in every nook and corner of the universe. Signed Ravji K. Ganatra, ex-mayor of Bombay." He's very convinced, Srila Prabhupada, about Your Divine Grace and this Movement, because he traveled around the world and stayed as a guest at our temples, and he was amazed to see how this Indian culture had actually been transplanted and taken root in all of these countries all over the world. He could not believe it. He was so amazed and impressed. He said that he's seen genuinely that this Indian culture has been taken up in true spirit.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Hari Prasad: No, Prabhupada, this was the first mission which had started...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari Prasad: They've gone, preached, come back, but they have created devotee in every place in the world.
Prabhupada: "Brahman, Brahman."
Pancadravida: Simply drew zeroes.
Prabhupada: That is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta: mayavadi haya krsne aparadhi. While discussing with Prakasananda Sarasvati... "Caitanya," "Brahman," that's... Nothing like Krsna. Here they are doing, this Akhandananda, and what is his name? Another...?
Hari Prasad: Tirupati[?].
Prabhupada: Hmm.
Prabhupada: [Transl. Stay here few days.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Stay here for a few days.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. I am saying...]
Bhagatji: [Transl. Stay here for few days.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That's why I left Bombay.]
Hari Prasad: [Transl. The weather in Bombay now is not good for you. Wherever there is dry climate, if you give permission...]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Where?]
Hari Prasad: It was started...
Hari Prasad: Conveyance, there is train.
Hari Prasad: No, air-conditioned train, at this time you can't travel.
Hari Prasad: No, this all cough and all these things could be... In dry climate it can be...
Hari Prasad: He is Bhagirath, Pandit Bhagirath. He is friend of [indistinct] Swami. He's a very good Ayurvedic.
Satadhanya: Set it up. [break]
Prabhupada: Stop the medicine.
Satadhanya: See the effect.
Tamala Krsna: I agree with your suggestion, Srila Prabhupada. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kaviraja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. It's not... Hamsaduta, I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said after... He said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool, because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupada is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?
Prabhupada: Whatever little blood is there.
Bhavananda: I think it's a mistake, Srila Prabhupada, to take this strong medicine without having the kaviraja actually come and diagnose himself and...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Satadhanya: Actually, the kaviraja said to me that he never prescribes medicine without first seeing the patient.
Prabhupada: So bring him. And stop medicine.
Prabhupada: Local kaviraja also said it will be very strong now.
Prabhupada: ...unless one is local.
Prabhupada: And stick to him. Huh?
Prabhupada: That is impossible.
Prabhupada: No, seeing the pill, what to see?
Tamala Krsna: He may be able to recognize it as one of the types of makara-dhvaja. The main point is that Bonamali said it's makara-dhvaja. So by showing, he may be able to recognize, "Yes, this appears to be." At least we can get his opinion. Because that other kaviraja, that Ramanuji, threw some doubt on Bonamali's medicine, saying "This is not makara-dhvaja." So we're having some doubt about it and about Bonamali. If by seeing, this man would say, "Yes, this is one of the ways it's made. It does appear like this," then that would restore...
Prabhupada: No, he is coming. If he is coming, he can say here.
Trivikrama: What about the vegetable juice in preference to the fruit juice?
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, I mean the real thing is that Prabhupada is passing urine, and he is passing stool. So there's... Where is the harm for taking vegetable juice? The main thing is that Prabhupada has to swallow it. If he can swallow it, it's being digested to some extent, because the urine is coming and stool is passing.
Prabhupada: When stool comes, urine does not come.
Bhavananda: But you did say Krsna advised you through this dream to take that medicine.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Bhavananda: You said that Krsna directed you through that dream to take that makara-dhvaja medicine. So there are six different types of makara-dhvaja.
Trivikrama: Can you bring him here?
Bhavananda: They have their medicines and everything there.
Prabhupada: He has?
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhavananda: He wears Ramanuja tilaka, he's got good recommendation from L. M. Bangur.
Trivikrama: But how can Prabhupada travel?
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada cannot travel, because any movement will disturb his kidney.
Prabhupada: He cannot come?
Tamala Krsna: Well, it will be the same as the man from Delhi. He can't come and stay here and give up his practice. I mean, he stays in Calcutta, so... He won't be able to simply come and then... He'll leave, and then he won't be able to consult. If the idea is that the man has to be here every day...
Bhavananda: That's what?
Bhavananda: He would only have to come once, you mean, and prescribe makara-dhvaja.
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhavananda: Calcutta.
Prabhupada: Why not consult him?
Prabhupada: Go.
Prabhupada: So if he agrees to take up the case, I'll go.
Bhavananda: He'll take up the case. That there's no doubt.
Prabhupada: Yes. If somebody goes and brings him, then he decides. Then we shall go.
Tamala Krsna: Well, Svarupa Damodara, you could call direct to Calcutta and talk with Adri-dharana, who has contacted him, and let him discuss and see if he can bring him here. First of all, he should ask whether the man is willing. We can fly him here to Delhi and bring him here. I'm sure he'll agree to that. But it should be... He should be here.
Prabhupada: ...bring one Ramanuja. He has the makara-dhvaja. So if... Bhavananda has suggested, somebody very responsible go and bring him. And then, if we can, we shall go together there. Hmm?
Prabhupada: In the meantime, all medicine stopped. Hmm?
Bhavananda: There's no loss in stopping the medicine at this point, because this medicine is not improving your condition.
Prabhupada: No.
Bhavananda: We want some positive improvement.
Prabhupada: If in the meantime I die without medicine, so I am dying. What is wrong? The parikrama may go on.
Prabhupada: Liquid, from practical suggestion, I'll take little vegetable juice, that's all.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhavananda: No loss in taking fruit juice. When you were not taking the medicine a few days back, you were taking fruit juice every day and not passing stool. When you were in Delhi and Prabhupada was taking fruit juice every day, he was not passing stool. So there's no loss. We can take vegetable juice, fruit juice, vegetable broth. [break]
Prabhupada: ...reacting adversely. That is proved. Hmm?
Trivikrama: Drinking poison.
Prabhupada: Hmm. That is...
Prabhupada: No, consulting... When we want direct treatment, how you can consult him?
Bhavananda: Still, that's fourth-hand information. And he's not a Ramanuja-sampradaya. The only reason we were looking... We were looking for makara-dhvaja... [end]
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